CRNA self-awarding MD

[orangele]

I normally as part of my responsibilities I assign cases for myself and CRNA's that I work with. On rare occassion in the past, I noticed that one of the CRNAs initials have been changed on the OR Posting board to "Dr._" I did not make an issue of this since I thought that perhaps one of the other staff jokingly had made this change.

Today, after making assignments on the OR posting board, I returned to find the CRNA writing an Add-on case to the board with his Initial posted as "Dr._" Although I did not see him actually writing this, I felt that this was very likely, so I spoke with the OR manager. I told the OR manager that this was totally inappropriate, and a serious liability issue since the patients can see the posting board, and the listing of this CRNA as "Dr." could certainly be seen as a misrepresentation by the CRNA that he is a physician. The OR manager spoke with the CRNA who said that he has a Doctorate in nursing and that is why he listed himself as "Dr._"

Welcome to the future.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[veetz]

It's simply f***ed up.

 

[leaverus]

I, for one, welcome our new DNSc-CRNA overlords.

 

[Mman]

He is actually opening up himself to a lawsuit by a patient for misrepresenting himself since a patient has a reasonable expectation that someone referring to themselves as doctor in a hospital is actually a physician.

That is unless he introduces himself to patients as a nurse that has a doctorate in something useless with multiple publications in janitorial reviewed journals.

There are plenty of people that have been convicted of impersonating physicians in the past and maybe we will see a larger number in the future.

 

[anesthesia2011]

So by this idiots logic if I have a doctorate in psychology I could put my name next to "Dr"...tell the OR manager to change the title to MD because thats what every thinking human being thinks of when they hear or read "Dr" in a medical setting.

 

[Icefrog]

There really should be laws against this. Lawyers have a JD but they don't refer to themselves as "doctors." Society interprets the term "doctor" as an MD/PhD or equivalent, and only in the university or research setting for PhDs. In any other circumstance, the term "doctor" is presumed to be an MD/DO. This is ridiculous and obviously misleading.

 

[dragonark]

I think it all started with "Dr. Phil"...and quickly went even more downhill from there.

 

[badasshairday]

So by this idiots logic if I have a doctorate in psychology I could put my name next to "Dr"...tell the OR manager to change the title to MD because thats what every thinking human being thinks of when they hear or read "Dr" in a medical setting.

This.

 

[IN2B8R]

I normally as part of my responsibilities I assign cases for myself and CRNA's that I work with. On rare occassion in the past, I noticed that one of the CRNAs initials have been changed on the OR Posting board to "Dr._" I did not make an issue of this since I thought that perhaps one of the other staff jokingly had made this change.

Today, after making assignments on the OR posting board, I returned to find the CRNA writing an Add-on case to the board with his Initial posted as "Dr._" Although I did not see him actually writing this, I felt that this was very likely, so I spoke with the OR manager. I told the OR manager that this was totally inappropriate, and a serious liability issue since the patients can see the posting board, and the listing of this CRNA as "Dr." could certainly be seen as a misrepresentation by the CRNA that he is a physician. The OR manager spoke with the CRNA who said that he has a Doctorate in nursing and that is why he listed himself as "Dr._"

Welcome to the future.

Go to your hospital board/administration and to your chief medical officer. If they do nothing about this, then go to your state medical board and report this--now! You should say nothing to this fuggin' CRNA loser. Just go to the proper authorities who will be having a talk with this d*ckwad. If he continues to do it, then just keep a record (maybe a cell phone picture with a date on it) and report it to the the sate medical board/ASA state office. Make sure that he gets blindsided by this, you need not communicate with a fuggin' NURSE about what he can and cannot call himself.

 

[IlDestriero]

Just when we thought your situation could not get any worse...
If she's putting it up on the board you can bet she's introducing herself as "Hi I'm Dr. Wannabe, I'm going to do your anesthetic today." If that's happening she needs to go down HARD. Quit now man, seriously.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Go to your hospital board/administration and to your chief medical officer. If they do nothing about this, then go to your state medical board and report this--now! You should say nothing to this fuggin' CRNA loser. Just go to the proper authorities who will be having a talk with this d*ckwad. If he continues to do it, then just keep a record (maybe a cell phone picture with a date on it) and report it to the the sate medical board/ASA state office. Make sure that he gets blindsided by this, you need not communicate with a fuggin' NURSE about what he can and cannot call himself.

If the response is a roll over or shoulder shrug, the encroachment will persist.
Even as a non-resident research fellow at my current hospital, I have been actively involved with the hospital administration meetings with clinicians (open to all volunteering MDs).

Let's just say, such an egregious attempt at misrepresentation would NEVER happen at my current hospital.

Being involved/vocal is key.

The only way to win this war is not by arguing with the dumba**es. It's by legally challenging the attempt to practice medicine without a license. Simple.

 

[miamidc]

Go to your hospital board/administration and to your chief medical officer. If they do nothing about this, then go to your state medical board and report this--now! You should say nothing to this fuggin' CRNA loser. Just go to the proper authorities who will be having a talk with this d*ckwad. If he continues to do it, then just keep a record (maybe a cell phone picture with a date on it) and report it to the the sate medical board/ASA state office. Make sure that he gets blindsided by this, you need not communicate with a fuggin' NURSE about what he can and cannot call himself.

Agreed. It is your professional duty to do something about this. Do it for your specialty, now, please! This stops now, today. Make sure he goes down!!

 

[proman]

Don't deal with the administration, they don't care. Take it up at the next meeting of the Medical Staff Committee and Chief of Staff. Get them to support a change to the bylaws stating only a licensed holder of MD/DO (+ whatever else you have like DMD/DDS) may used the term "doctor". Then you have the administration enforce it.

 

[ProRealDoc]

Just send an email to the state's attorney general office and the state medical board with name and location and the rest will be history.

 

[siednarb]

where i did my residency there was a CRNA who had a "doctorate" in nursing anesthesia - and he started introducing himself to patients as "Dr. so & so"

our chairman put an end to that very quickly
he was allowed to use what ever designations after his name (PhD) on his stationary or whatever (he was the CRNA in charge of their assignments)- but in the OR, on the board and to patients he was explicitly told not to introduce himself as a doctor.

 

[vegas]

If we hired AAs instead of CRNAs would it:
1) Put an end to this bull crap we have to deal with?
2) Be more cost effective?
3) By #1 and #2 basically stick it to these CRNAs (MD wannabes) and put them in their place.

MEDICAL DOCTOR IN THE MAKING

SAT/ACT
MCAT
Medical School ($$$$$$)
USMLE 1
USMLE 2
USMLE CK
USMLE 3
Four Years Residency
ABA Written Boards
ABA Oral Boards
(For Me)
Fellowship (Cardiac) Boards


From the ASA website, definitions:

What is an anesthesiologist assistant?

Anesthesiologist Assistants complete a four year undergraduate college degree that includes satisfying pre-med requirements. Anesthesiologist Assistants are highly skilled health professionals who have satisfactorily completed an accredited anesthesiologist assistant education program. Upon completion of an accredited AA program, a student may become certified by passing the National Commission for Certification of Anesthesiologist Assistants examination (NCCAA). Performance information for test items and the overall exam are provided by the National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME).
AAs are trained extensively in the delivery of safe and high quality anesthesia care, as well as advanced patient monitoring techniques. As nonphysician anesthetists, AAs work under the direction of licensed anesthesiologists to implement anesthesia care plans. An AA may not practice outside the field of anesthesia or apart from the supervision of an anesthesiologist.

What is a nurse anesthetist?

A Nurse Anesthetist or CRNA is registered nurse who has satisfactorily completed an accredited nurse anesthesia training program. In 1980 the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists mandated that all applicants to nurse anesthetist programs must have a minimum of a Bachelor of Science (but not necessarily a bachelor’s degree in nursing)—a requirement that took effect in July 1987. Nurse must gain at least one year of practice experience before entering an accredited nurse anesthesia training program. Following completion of a 2 to 3 year program they are required to pass a national certification examination.

Nurse anesthetists are nonphysician anesthetists who specialize in the provision of anesthesia care and participate in the administration of anesthesia in a variety of surgical cases. They are frequently supervised by an anesthesiologist, but may also work under the supervision of other physicians.

 

[vegas]

let us start wearing the white coat!!

We have earned it!!

 

[Mman]

let us start wearing the white coat!!

We have earned it!!

As has apparently every other person that earns a paycheck in the hospital. When I wander down to the cafeteria in my scrubs, I see nurses (including CRNAs), janitors, surgical techs, and whoever else can pay $15 for a white coat wearing them while in line to get their food. I'm thinking we should come up with some other color coat for physicians and let the rest of the people wear the white one.

 

[Consigliere]

As has apparently every other person that earns a paycheck in the hospital. When I wander down to the cafeteria in my scrubs, I see nurses (including CRNAs), janitors, surgical techs, and whoever else can pay $15 for a white coat wearing them while in line to get their food. I'm thinking we should come up with some other color coat for physicians and let the rest of the people wear the white one.

We wear light blue ones where I work.

 

[DoctwoB]

As has apparently every other person that earns a paycheck in the hospital. When I wander down to the cafeteria in my scrubs, I see nurses (including CRNAs), janitors, surgical techs, and whoever else can pay $15 for a white coat wearing them while in line to get their food. I'm thinking we should come up with some other color coat for physicians and let the rest of the people wear the white one.

http://xkcd.com/699/

 

[jwk]

If we hired AAs instead of CRNAs would it:
1) Put an end to this bull crap we have to deal with?
2) Be more cost effective?
3) By #1 and #2 basically stick it to these CRNAs (MD wannabes) and put them in their place.

Let me answer your questions and hopefully clear up a misconception or two.

1) I assume by bullcrap you mean CRNA's thinking they can replace anesthesiologists and/or fighting with the AANA or something similar. AA's are committed to the anesthesia care team concept and ALWAYS work with anesthesiologists. BTW, there are CRNA's that do the same - their state and national organizations HATE to admit it, but many of them do.

2) AA and CRNA with same experience in the same practice get paid the same. I am not a cheaper alternative to undercut CRNA's. If I do the same work, I expect to be paid in a similar fashion.

3) AA's are an additional type of provider. We don't seek to push CRNA's out of the practices that hire us - if they decide to leave in a snit BECAUSE we are hired, that's their problem. We're not trying to stick it to anybody, and no CRNA has ever lost a job to an AA that I'm aware of. The AANA would like everyone to believe we are tools of the ASA against CRNA's. We are not. We stand up just fine on our own training and credentials.

 

[2win]

Let me answer your questions and hopefully clear up a misconception or two.

1) I assume by bullcrap you mean CRNA's thinking they can replace anesthesiologists and/or fighting with the AANA or something similar. AA's are committed to the anesthesia care team concept and ALWAYS work with anesthesiologists. BTW, there are CRNA's that do the same - their state and national organizations HATE to admit it, but many of them do.

2) AA and CRNA with same experience in the same practice get paid the same. I am not a cheaper alternative to undercut CRNA's. If I do the same work, I expect to be paid in a similar fashion.

3) AA's are an additional type of provider. We don't seek to push CRNA's out of the practices that hire us - if they decide to leave in a snit BECAUSE we are hired, that's their problem. We're not trying to stick it to anybody, and no CRNA has ever lost a job to an AA that I'm aware of. The AANA would like everyone to believe we are tools of the ASA against CRNA's. We are not. We stand up just fine on our own training and credentials.

 

[sevo85288]

Take this issue to your medical staff.
Contact your local newspaper to inform of them of what is happening.
Contact the Medical Board about the potential to confuse patients.
Contact the nursing board.
Have the chair of the dept of surgery and anesthesia involved.

 

[jetproppilot]

As has apparently every other person that earns a paycheck in the hospital. When I wander down to the cafeteria in my scrubs, I see nurses (including CRNAs), janitors, surgical techs, and whoever else can pay $15 for a white coat wearing them while in line to get their food. I'm thinking we should come up with some other color coat for physicians and let the rest of the people wear the white one.

Not necessary.

Your white coat is emblazened with M.D.

Every curious person I pass, I see their eyes trailing LEFT, trying to read what's on THE WHITE COAT.

Wear it with pride.

And walk a little slower.

 

[orangele]

Take this issue to your medical staff.
Contact your local newspaper to inform of them of what is happening.
Contact the Medical Board about the potential to confuse patients.
Contact the nursing board.
Have the chair of the dept of surgery and anesthesia involved.

The risk manager (RN) was notified and basically did not address the primary issue (CRNA self-notating themselves as "Dr._" on OR posting board visible to patients as they roll into OR) Basically she did not feel there was an issue and did not instruct the OR manager to do anything. The CEO was also notified, but did not hear any specific response.
P.S. I am the surgery department chairman but as my posts in the past have detailed, have no real power whatsoever. I intend to go through a process in-house before I would consider going to outside venues.

 

[Dejavu]

"a serious liability issue since the patients can see the posting board"

I agree that posting onesself as a Dr when one isn't is inappropriate (coming from someone who was a CRNA and went to Med School/anesth residency).

And I apologize if this hijacks this thread, that is not my intention, but if the pt can see the listing board and other pts' names are able to be seen by said patient, that is a clear HIPAA violation and your institution could be in for a problem with the Fed regulators. I worked in a place where that was a change we had to make after our accreditation visit.

Just a wayward thought, now back to the regularly scheduled thread.

 

[deleted87716]

Not necessary.

Your white coat is emblazened with M.D.

Every curious person I pass, I see their eyes trailing LEFT, trying to read what's on THE WHITE COAT.

Wear it with pride.

And walk a little slower.

And use block print...script is too hard to read.

 

[orangele]

"a serious liability issue since the patients can see the posting board"

I agree that posting onesself as a Dr when one isn't is inappropriate (coming from someone who was a CRNA and went to Med School/anesth residency).

And I apologize if this hijacks this thread, that is not my intention, but if the pt can see the listing board and other pts' names are able to be seen by said patient, that is a clear HIPAA violation and your institution could be in for a problem with the Fed regulators. I worked in a place where that was a change we had to make after our accreditation visit.

Just a wayward thought, now back to the regularly scheduled thread.

Patients Last names are listed, and first initials. I don't know if that is a HIPPA violation or not. The OR posting board is in a secure area with no unauthorized access.

 

[sevoflurane]

I normally as part of my responsibilities I assign cases for myself and CRNA's that I work with. On rare occassion in the past, I noticed that one of the CRNAs initials have been changed on the OR Posting board to "Dr._" I did not make an issue of this since I thought that perhaps one of the other staff jokingly had made this change.

Today, after making assignments on the OR posting board, I returned to find the CRNA writing an Add-on case to the board with his Initial posted as "Dr._" Although I did not see him actually writing this, I felt that this was very likely, so I spoke with the OR manager. I told the OR manager that this was totally inappropriate, and a serious liability issue since the patients can see the posting board, and the listing of this CRNA as "Dr." could certainly be seen as a misrepresentation by the CRNA that he is a physician. The OR manager spoke with the CRNA who said that he has a Doctorate in nursing and that is why he listed himself as "Dr._"

Welcome to the future.

This is the exact BS I avoided by joining an MD only practice. I do my own peds, hearts, blocks, etc. The very fact that a CRNA goes around calling themselves "Doctor" undermines all the effort I put into medical school and residency- not to mention some of the best years of my life. Those are real bullets I used to sweat. Days on end being on call on beautiful sunny days, 4:00am doing crazy trauma resuscitation, super tight sphincters doing pedi hearts, 3 weeks of vacation for 4 years putting in >80 hrs. a week and to top it off, after I finished my room, I would be sent in to relieve a CRNA's at 4:00pm. Add to that a 220k+ medical school debt.

Then... someone who has a phd in "nursing" comes in and presents themselves as someone who has been down the same path I've been through? C'mmon. Bring down the hammer on this individual. Absolute BS that you have this going on. It is your duty to report such behavior. If it goes unchecked it just adds more fuel to the fire. It is bad enough we've let it get this far.

Ask your nurse "doctor" if he/she knows the implications of mucositis. Last time I spoke of mucositis with a CRNA, they laughed out load as they thought I was kidding and making up a word. They don't teach mucositis in CRNA school do they? But they do call themselves "Dr."

I don't mean to be inflamatory, but this problem is our own fault and we need to make it right.

 

[Coastie]

We residents are currently sweating those same bullets and face the crna issue daily.

Any words of encouragement from the other side of the tunnel?

This is the exact BS I avoided by joining an MD only practice. I do my own peds, hearts, blocks, etc. The very fact that a CRNA goes around calling themselves "Doctor" undermines all the effort I put into medical school and residency- not to mention some of the best years of my life. Those are real bullets I used to sweat. Days on end being on call on beautiful sunny days, 4:00am doing crazy trauma resuscitation, super tight sphincters doing pedi hearts, 3 weeks of vacation for 4 years putting in >80 hrs. a week and to top it off, after I finished my room, I would be sent in to relieve a CRNA's at 4:00pm. Add to that a 220k+ medical school debt.

Then... someone who has a phd in "nursing" comes in and presents themselves as someone who has been down the same path I've been through? C'mmon. Bring down the hammer on this individual. Absolute BS that you have this going on. It is your duty to report such behavior. If it goes unchecked it just adds more fuel to the fire. It is bad enough we've let it get this far.

Ask your nurse “doctor” if he/she knows the implications of mucositis. Last time I spoke of mucositis with a CRNA, they laughed out load as they thought I was kidding and making up a word. They don’t teach mucositis in CRNA school do they? But they do call themselves "Dr."

I don't mean to be inflamatory, but this problem is our own fault and we need to make it right.

 

[IlDestriero]

Then... someone who has a phd in "nursing" comes in and presents themselves as someone who has been down the same path I've been through?

It's not even a PhD, at least that would imply some degree of academic ability and success, it's almost certainly a DNP or DNAP. You CAN get one ONLINE!
I think the inmates are running the asylum down there in TX.
The fact that they think for a second that they are entitled to the title of DOCTOR in a hospital setting is ridiculous. That is a title for Physicians and Dentists, PERIOD. It is degree inflation at its worst and they absolutely do not earn that title. My wife has a clinical doctorate as well, though she works in industry and does not practice. The ONLY place where she is EVER referred to as Dr. X is in cold calls for donations and formal invitations.

 

[orangele]

Reviewed the credential file of the "Dr nurse" CRNA in question under my authority as chief of surgery (I am responsible for approving credentials of CRNAs and medical staff). Interestingly, there is NO listing of any Doctorate level training in his file.

Spoke with the credential staff at the hospital who told me that they contacted the credentials administrator for the entire system who related that a CRNA with a doctorate level (non-physician) degree may have that information entered into their file, but that the use of "Doctor" is inappropriate in the hospital setting. I was told that the CEO of the hospital will speak with the "Dr. nurse" and tell them this conclusion.

I called the ASA and requested suggestions for wording which could be used in the hospital bylaws which would limit the use of the title "Doctor" to appropriate people.

The medical staff appears to be unified in preventing in Doctor nurses from calling themselves Doctor in the hospital.

Seems like things are moving in the right direction.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Reviewed the credential file of the "Dr nurse" CRNA in question under my authority as chief of surgery (I am responsible for approving credentials of CRNAs and medical staff). Interestingly, there is NO listing of any Doctorate level training in his file.

Spoke with the credential staff at the hospital who told me that they contacted the credentials administrator for the entire system who related that a CRNA with a doctorate level (non-physician) degree may have that information entered into their file, but that the use of "Doctor" is inappropriate in the hospital setting. I was told that the CEO of the hospital will speak with the "Dr. nurse" and tell them this conclusion.

I called the ASA and requested suggestions for wording which could be used in the hospital bylaws which would limit the use of the title "Doctor" to appropriate people.

The medical staff appears to be unified in preventing in Doctor nurses from calling themselves Doctor in the hospital.

Seems like things are moving in the right direction.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCt1BwWE2gA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[IDBasco]

Thats good news. Maybe this is a beginning for solving issues you have reported at your hospital previously on this board.

 

[Southpaw]

Reviewed the credential file of the "Dr nurse" CRNA in question under my authority as chief of surgery (I am responsible for approving credentials of CRNAs and medical staff). Interestingly, there is NO listing of any Doctorate level training in his file.

Spoke with the credential staff at the hospital who told me that they contacted the credentials administrator for the entire system who related that a CRNA with a doctorate level (non-physician) degree may have that information entered into their file, but that the use of "Doctor" is inappropriate in the hospital setting. I was told that the CEO of the hospital will speak with the "Dr. nurse" and tell them this conclusion.

I called the ASA and requested suggestions for wording which could be used in the hospital bylaws which would limit the use of the title "Doctor" to appropriate people.

The medical staff appears to be unified in preventing in Doctor nurses from calling themselves Doctor in the hospital.

Seems like things are moving in the right direction.

All the angry, bitter online posting in the world isn't going to change a thing. Well done sir, on taking action.

You seem to work in one seriously malignant atmosphere for an attending physician. Atleast you're taking some action and trying to improve your environment for yourself and your patients. Strong handed...strong work!

 

[bne_12mne]

reviewed the credential file of the "dr nurse" crna in question under my authority as chief of surgery (i am responsible for approving credentials of crnas and medical staff). Interestingly, there is no listing of any doctorate level training in his file.

Spoke with the credential staff at the hospital who told me that they contacted the credentials administrator for the entire system who related that a crna with a doctorate level (non-physician) degree may have that information entered into their file, but that the use of "doctor" is inappropriate in the hospital setting. I was told that the ceo of the hospital will speak with the "dr. Nurse" and tell them this conclusion.

I called the asa and requested suggestions for wording which could be used in the hospital bylaws which would limit the use of the title "doctor" to appropriate people.

The medical staff appears to be unified in preventing in doctor nurses from calling themselves doctor in the hospital.

Seems like things are moving in the right direction.

strong work!!!!

 

[cfdavid]

let us start wearing the white coat!!

We have earned it!!

I agree, but every hospital I've rotated at DID NOT have a policy against non-physicians wearing long white coats, so it's gonna have to be a more proactive, I think.

cf

 

[miamidc]

Reviewed the credential file of the "Dr nurse" CRNA in question under my authority as chief of surgery (I am responsible for approving credentials of CRNAs and medical staff). Interestingly, there is NO listing of any Doctorate level training in his file.

Spoke with the credential staff at the hospital who told me that they contacted the credentials administrator for the entire system who related that a CRNA with a doctorate level (non-physician) degree may have that information entered into their file, but that the use of "Doctor" is inappropriate in the hospital setting. I was told that the CEO of the hospital will speak with the "Dr. nurse" and tell them this conclusion.

I called the ASA and requested suggestions for wording which could be used in the hospital bylaws which would limit the use of the title "Doctor" to appropriate people.

The medical staff appears to be unified in preventing in Doctor nurses from calling themselves Doctor in the hospital.

Seems like things are moving in the right direction.

Strong work!

 

[Mister J]

Reviewed the credential file of the "Dr nurse" CRNA in question under my authority as chief of surgery (I am responsible for approving credentials of CRNAs and medical staff). Interestingly, there is NO listing of any Doctorate level training in his file.

Spoke with the credential staff at the hospital who told me that they contacted the credentials administrator for the entire system who related that a CRNA with a doctorate level (non-physician) degree may have that information entered into their file, but that the use of "Doctor" is inappropriate in the hospital setting. I was told that the CEO of the hospital will speak with the "Dr. nurse" and tell them this conclusion.

I called the ASA and requested suggestions for wording which could be used in the hospital bylaws which would limit the use of the title "Doctor" to appropriate people.

The medical staff appears to be unified in preventing in Doctor nurses from calling themselves Doctor in the hospital.

Seems like things are moving in the right direction.

Shine on you crazy diamond!

 

[IN2B8R]

Reviewed the credential file of the "Dr nurse" CRNA in question under my authority as chief of surgery (I am responsible for approving credentials of CRNAs and medical staff). Interestingly, there is NO listing of any Doctorate level training in his file.

Spoke with the credential staff at the hospital who told me that they contacted the credentials administrator for the entire system who related that a CRNA with a doctorate level (non-physician) degree may have that information entered into their file, but that the use of "Doctor" is inappropriate in the hospital setting. I was told that the CEO of the hospital will speak with the "Dr. nurse" and tell them this conclusion.

I called the ASA and requested suggestions for wording which could be used in the hospital bylaws which would limit the use of the title "Doctor" to appropriate people.

The medical staff appears to be unified in preventing in Doctor nurses from calling themselves Doctor in the hospital.

Seems like things are moving in the right direction.

And now that you have gone through the hospital channels and if that mother fugger continues to present himself as "Dr.," then just go straight to the state medical boards/ASA state office. That'll settle the issue. Proper Publicity: if fuggin' physicians took the time to go through it, then we may find ourselves in a better position than the one we are in today.... Nice work!

 

[SleepIsGood]

Nail this guy.

If you are the credentialing officer...yank this Murse's credentials.

 

[SleepIsGood]

3) AA's are an additional type of provider. We don't seek to push CRNA's out of the practices that hire us - if they decide to leave in a snit BECAUSE we are hired, that's their problem. We're not trying to stick it to anybody, and no CRNA has ever lost a job to an AA that I'm aware of. The AANA would like everyone to believe we are tools of the ASA against CRNA's. We are not. We stand up just fine on our own training and credentials.

I know evryone on here 'loves' JWK.

But again. read the undertones of his statement. "We're not trying to stick it to anybody'.

Before the attitude of AAs was we are WITH anesthesiologists. Now, as they are seeing the paradigm shift....CRNAs gaining independence. AAs are trying to be more "PC". They dont want to shuffle feathers with CRNAs either now.

Again. Midlevel providers are midlevel providers. Let's all not forget that CRNAs started as 'physician extenders'. Now look at what they've become.

Again, be cautious.

 

[M.Furfur]

Reviewed the credential file of the "Dr nurse" CRNA in question under my authority as chief of surgery (I am responsible for approving credentials of CRNAs and medical staff). Interestingly, there is NO listing of any Doctorate level training in his file.

Spoke with the credential staff at the hospital who told me that they contacted the credentials administrator for the entire system who related that a CRNA with a doctorate level (non-physician) degree may have that information entered into their file, but that the use of "Doctor" is inappropriate in the hospital setting. I was told that the CEO of the hospital will speak with the "Dr. nurse" and tell them this conclusion.

I called the ASA and requested suggestions for wording which could be used in the hospital bylaws which would limit the use of the title "Doctor" to appropriate people.

The medical staff appears to be unified in preventing in Doctor nurses from calling themselves Doctor in the hospital.

Seems like things are moving in the right direction.

You made my day!

 

[SleepIsGood]

Not necessary.

Your white coat is emblazened with M.D.

Every curious person I pass, I see their eyes trailing LEFT, trying to read what's on THE WHITE COAT.

Wear it with pride.

And walk a little slower.

Agree with above.


Jet-I know you and I have disagreed about this in the past. What do you think now though of making sure OR personell call you "Dr. Smith" instead of "Bob".

Personally, if the culture at the surgery center/hospital is that the surgeon is also called by first name by the RN, the janitor, the tech etc..then ok. But if the surgeon gets the "doctor' title, why shouldnt you?

I think it's one of those small things (like wearing your white coat) that perhaps maybe formal, but conveys that distinction. I remember a thread of yours back in the day (maybe 2 years ago..lol) where you said you never even wear a white coat. Again, not trying to point fingers, but I think we all realize how important this is. Even me as a resident, when it's easier for me to just throw on one of those blue coverups and run to the cafe. Now, I check my self, go that extra direction in the opposite direction and try to find that white coat amongst the many.

Unfortunately, I think anesthesiologists are very relaxed about this. I think it works against us. Nurses and techs woud never think of calling surgeons by their first names. Not sure we should be any different...we've gone through the same training.

 

[leaverus]

I totally agree, SIG. I always introduce myself as Dr.Leaverus-and i did that throughtout residency, too. It's important to let the patient know that you're the physician.

 

[AegriSomnia]

Agree with above.
Nurses and techs woud never think of calling surgeons by their first names. Not sure we should be any different...we've gone through the same training.

I don't think it's because they don't respect you as much as the surgeon, it's just because as a group you anesthesiologists tend to be friendlier and more approachable than most of the dink surgeons so people associate with you on more familiar (i.e. being friendly) terms. Just my opinion.

 

[drccw]

to the patients or in front of the patients, I am Dr. CCW.

With the staff, I am often very very casual. Most of us are, including the surgeons. The only people who insist on getting called Dr. end up being less respected by ancillary staff. Those of us who are approachable and capable tend to garner the greatest respect from the staff.

 

[orangele]

I have not heard back from the ASA regarding wording to amend bylaws to prevent Doctor nurses from using the title doctor in the hospital.

I composed the following language. Would appreciate any input/corrections.


In order to avoid confusion between physicians and other healthcare professionals within the hospital, the title "Doctor," or the designation "Dr." is only to be used by physicians (M.D. and D.O.) and independent licensed practitioners (Dentists, Podiatrists) who have an established relationship with patients.
Other healthcare professionals holding doctorate level degrees are specifically prohibited from using the title of "Doctor," or the designation "Dr." while performing their responsibilites in the hospital. It is appropriate however for other healthcare professionals who have advanced professional degress, to list these degrees on identification tags or badges, and placed or signed on hospital documents if such education is directly required or related to their professional duties, and has been verified in the credentialing process.

 

[twostep376]

I have not heard back from the ASA regarding wording to amend bylaws to prevent Doctor nurses from using the title doctor in the hospital.

I composed the following language. Would appreciate any input/corrections.


In order to avoid confusion between physicians and other healthcare professionals within the hospital, the title "Doctor," or the designation "Dr." is only to be used by physicians (M.D. and D.O.) and independent licensed practitioners (Dentists, Podiatrists) who have an established relationship with patients.
Other healthcare professionals holding doctorate level degrees are specifically prohibited from using the title of "Doctor," or the designation "Dr." while performing their responsibilites in the hospital. It is appropriate however for other healthcare professionals who have advanced professional degress, to list these degrees on identification tags or badges, and placed or signed on hospital documents if such education is directly required or related to their professional duties, and has been verified in the credentialing process.

 

[sevoflurane]

We residents are currently sweating those same bullets and face the crna issue daily.

Any words of encouragement from the other side of the tunnel?

Hey Coastie. No worries. It gets better. Here are a couple statements off the top of my head:

• Residency is tough. Try and enjoy it. Learn as much as you can.
• Stay under the radar. You wanna be that guy who is really good at what he does but is not stirring up the mud. I had a confrontation with a CRNA early in my residency. What I learned: Attendings>CRNA>Residents. You will be suprised at who really has your back in residency (your fellow residents). You are more replaceable than a CRNA and they know it.
• Don't worry about the future. You chose a fantastic specialty.
• The other side of the tunnel is dramatically better. In fact, it is night and day. You will be doing amazing things both inside and outside of the hospital. But to fully taste it, you have to put your time in the s hit hole so you can know the difference.

Lastly, work in an MD only practice to start off with. You don't want to supervise a CRNA that has been doing it for 15 years and thinks they know more than you. At least I didn't. That is for later, once you have learned to land a plane that is crashing and burning.... Solo. It will give you confidance handling life and death decisions when you are the only anesthesia provider in the hospital.

Good luck Home-E.