CTOR Academy Orthodontics Program is accepting applications for July 1, 2022 enrollment

[CTOR Academy Orthodontics]

CTOR Academy is now accepting applications for our Advanced Education Program in Orthodontics and Dentofacial Orthopedics that will begin July 1, 2022. This 36-month program is CODA-accredited and leads to a certificate that allows you to practice Orthodontics and pursue ABO certification.

Please visit our website at www.ctor.academy for more information and application materials.

Join the Future of Orthodontics!

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I couldn’t see tuition and fees on your website. I’ll take that to mean you’re shaking down students for $300,000 or more. Am I in the ballpark?

Tell you what, I’ll give you the honor of calling me student if I can attend for free. PM me if you’re interested.

Big Hoss

 

[GoDental101]

I couldn’t see tuition and fees on your website. I’ll take that to mean you’re shaking down students for $300,000 or more. Am I in the ballpark?

Tell you what, I’ll give you the honor of calling me student if I can attend for free. PM me if you’re interested.

Big Hoss

Their one year clinical fellowship program says it's is $70,000...so I doubt you'll be getting that PM.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Their one year clinical fellowship program says it's is $70,000...so I doubt you'll be getting that PM.

Big Hoss

 

[PerioDont]

it looks like this website was built on squarespace in 15 minutes.

No tuition and fees listed but of course they have this.

this screams scam to me.

Why can't they just be up front and clear about their tuition.

 

[CaliDDS1986]

Any thoughts from the orthodontists on this board? Is ortho still worth it at this cost? Would you guys attend this program if you had no other options? Would love to hear your opinions.

@Firm @Tooth @2TH MVR @charlestweed @gryffindor

 

[Love orthodontics]

Of course I am applying for CTOR program, and I could still start this summer if accepted...
They got accredited by CODA and their faculty are very impressive. I do not see any scam there.
But talking about scam...I will definitely not choose a large/factory style program.

Cost of PG training is a big issue, but isn't that the same for other specialties?
I am set on a career in orthodontics, just need to figure out how to get there. It is sooooo competitive to get into a Ortho program.
I have 3 friends that became orthodontists and seem very happy about their career.
The first years after they opened their practice were difficult, but they all also work part-time in other practices while building their own.
I could do the same.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

But talking about scam...I will definitely not choose a large/factory style program.

But, you’re okay with a “pay to play” residency? Because that’s what this program is, just like the Georgia School of Orthodontics and probably some others.

Big Hoss

 

[GoDental101]

Of course I am applying for CTOR program, and I could still start this summer if accepted...
They got accredited by CODA and their faculty are very impressive. I do not see any scam there.
But talking about scam...I will definitely not choose a large/factory style program.

Cost of PG training is a big issue, but isn't that the same for other specialties?
I am set on a career in orthodontics, just need to figure out how to get there. It is sooooo competitive to get into a Ortho program.
I have 3 friends that became orthodontists and seem very happy about their career.
The first years after they opened their practice were difficult, but they all also work part-time in other practices while building their own.
I could do the same.

Do you know how much it costs?

 

[gryffindor]

Any thoughts from the orthodontists on this board? Is ortho still worth it at this cost? Would you guys attend this program if you had no other options? Would love to hear your opinions.

I would not apply until I reached a certain point of desperation. When I was applying, the OEC programs enticed people with their 7 year contract stipulation. I did not want a conditional acceptance anywhere so I did not apply and matched by the seat of my pants, but I doubt they had any issues filling those spots.

There is no lack of orthodontists here, this is just getting stupid now that CODA basically approves any place with a dental chair and a pan/ceph.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

There is no lack of orthodontists here, this is just getting stupid now that CODA basically approves any place with a dental chair and a pan/ceph.

Maybe you, @charlestweed, @2TH MVR, and I can start an ortho residency. You all down? I know a thing or two about interceptive ortho.

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

Of course I am applying for CTOR program, and I could still start this summer if accepted...
They got accredited by CODA and their faculty are very impressive. I do not see any scam there.
But talking about scam...I will definitely not choose a large/factory style program.

Cost of PG training is a big issue, but isn't that the same for other specialties?
I am set on a career in orthodontics, just need to figure out how to get there. It is sooooo competitive to get into a Ortho program.
I have 3 friends that became orthodontists and seem very happy about their career.
The first years after they opened their practice were difficult, but they all also work part-time in other practices while building their own.
I could do the same.

Cost of training isn’t an issue at all for GPR (possibly AEGD?) and OMFS since pretty much all of them pay a salary. I think pediatrics does not charge tuition.

 

[Love orthodontics]

Do you know how much it costs?

If you contact them they send all the financial info to you. They have great faculty and the facilities are new. The class will only be 6 students. I like that.
For sure they are not like Georgia!
I requested a visit and will be there next week.

Which Ortho programs rank on the top 10 in the US? Can someone suggest a reliable reference?
I find so many different ranks… and hospital residencies are not for me as a foreign.

 

[Love orthodontics]

But, you’re okay with a “pay to play” residency? Because that’s what this program is, just like the Georgia School of Orthodontics and probably some others.

Big Hoss

I am not going to any program to play.
I am set on a career in Orthodontics, and I would love to teach one day and do research.
So I can not just go to any program with faculty that know a thing or 2 about early interceptive treatment.

Are there any orthodontic residents here that can give me some advise, tell me something about their program, other than complaining about the tuition?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

The class will only be 6 students. I like that.
For sure they are not like Georgia!

The Georgia School of Orthodontics also started out around that class size and then a few years later tripled in size. What do you want to bet CTOR does the same thing when they realize how many desperate people are willing to pay a small fortune to become an orthodontist.

Big Hoss

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

So I can not just go to any program with faculty that know a thing or 2 about early interceptive treatment.

That’s because I’m a pediatric dentist. I was joking about starting a program with some orthodontists to make fat stacks of cash...or was was I joking?

Any “legitimate” ortho program probably has better and more established faculty than CTOR. If I were you, I would look for a program at an actual university if you’re serious about your education.

Big Hoss

 

[jobayanks29]

I think there are a couple of questions here.

1) Is it financially worth it to be an ortho still if the program costs $300,000+ for 3 years. That is 3 years not working as a GP so opportunity cost is easily over $1 million

2) Who is actually able to do this program? I’m sure it’s a small segment of applicants. Federal loans aren’t applicable so anyone out of dental school in debt CANT afford it. You would actually have to HAVE $300,000 to pay for it, and if you do, why would you pay to be an orthodontist unless you plan on making more as an ortho (see question 1)

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Is it financially worth it to be an ortho still if the program costs $300,000+ for 3 years. That is 3 years not working as a GP so opportunity cost is easily over $1 million

Throw in the $500,000+ at 7% interest in dental school debt many now have, and congratulations a quarter of your life time earnings went towards your education!

Big Hoss

 

[jobayanks29]

Throw in the $500,000+ at 7% interest in dental school debt many now have, and congratulations a quarter of your life time earnings went towards your education!

Big Hoss

But I don’t think those that have that much in student loans could apply here, how could they afford it? This program seems self selective toward either recent graduates with no debt whose parents can afford it, foreign grads who are independently wealthy, or practicing dentists with no loans that can afford the price tag.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

But I don’t think those that have that much in student loans could apply here, how could they afford it?

There are plenty of young orthodontists with student loans pushing $1,000,000. It’s actually easy to rack up that level of debt today because the government will give you unlimited access to loans. If you went to a dental school at a place like USC or UPenn and then stayed there for ortho residency you’d be at that level. You’re right, they can’t afford it. But, they were so focused on becoming an orthodontist they never stopped to think if they should become an orthodontist.



Big Hoss

 

[jobayanks29]

There are plenty of young orthodontists with student loans pushing $1,000,000. It’s actually easy to rack up that level of debt today because the government will give you unlimited access to loans. If you went to a dental school at a place like USC or UPenn and then stayed there for ortho residency you’d be at that level. You’re right, they can’t afford it. But, they were so focused on becoming an orthodontist they never stopped to think if they should become an orthodontist.



Big Hoss

Yea I agree with you. My point is this particular program they don’t have government funding, and I don’t think you’re able to get $300,000 in private loans for a dental residency program. So your typical dental grad at $500,000 debt with no government or outside support cant do this program. Now for those that CAN afford it, whether that is worth it or not is a completely different debate.

 

[011110]

LOL anybody who does this program is D-U-M-B!!!

Ortho doesn’t make crap anymore, it’s a shrinking field lol

“pay me $300,000 for a declining job market”

 

[Love orthodontics]

That’s because I’m a pediatric dentist. I was joking about starting a program with some orthodontists to make fat stacks of cash...or was was I joking?

Any “legitimate” ortho program probably has better and more established faculty than CTOR. If I were you, I would look for a program at an actual university if you’re serious about your education.

Big Hoss

Why is a pediatric dentist expressing such negative views about orthodontics, and some programs?
Did you ever apply to an orthodontics program and did not get in?
I am curious which ortho program would you recommend if you wanted to become an orthodontist?
That is the information I am looking for here!
I need advise about good Ortho programs.

About the faculty at CTOR, I looked up their accomplishments, and I am very impressed.
But I will have a better idea about this program after my visit next week.

How I am going to pay for my training it is my personal business...
I personally find general dentistry boring and repetitive.
After working for a couple of years in dentistry and oral surgery will pay anything to get out it!!!

 

[D1Bound]

Why is a pediatric dentist expressing such negative views about orthodontics, and some programs?
Did you ever apply to an orthodontics program and did not get in?
I am curious which ortho program would you recommend if you wanted to become an orthodontist?
That is the information I am looking for here!
I need advise about good Ortho programs.

About the faculty at CTOR, I looked up their accomplishments, and I am very impressed.
But I will have a better idea about this program after my visit next week.

How I am going to pay for my training it is my personal business...
I personally find general dentistry boring and repetitive.
After working for a couple of years in dentistry and oral surgery will pay anything to get out it!!!

I don't think he cares that much about that it's an ortho program. It's about the extreme cost and how these programs are popping up and pumping out new grads. If this was happening with something like Endo people would say the same thing about how it's not good for dentistry

 

[deleted903013]

am curious which ortho program would you recommend if you wanted to become an orthodontist?

Probably one with a stipend

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Why is a pediatric dentist expressing such negative views about orthodontics, and some programs?

I don’t have negative views about orthodontics. I have negative views about predatory programs, whether that’s dental schools or residency programs. They’re bad for our profession.

Did you ever apply to an orthodontics program and did not get in?

Never applied, nor am I interested in applying.

I am curious which ortho program would you recommend if you wanted to become an orthodontist?

If I wanted to be an orthodontist, I would apply to programs at legitimate academic institutions and programs that wouldn’t cripple me with debt.

I personally find general dentistry boring and repetitive.

If you think general dentistry is repetitive, wait until you start practicing ortho.

Big Hoss

 

[GoDental101]

Why is a pediatric dentist expressing such negative views about orthodontics, and some programs?
Did you ever apply to an orthodontics program and did not get in?
I am curious which ortho program would you recommend if you wanted to become an orthodontist?
That is the information I am looking for here!
I need advise about good Ortho programs.

About the faculty at CTOR, I looked up their accomplishments, and I am very impressed.
But I will have a better idea about this program after my visit next week.

How I am going to pay for my training it is my personal business...
I personally find general dentistry boring and repetitive.
After working for a couple of years in dentistry and oral surgery will pay anything to get out it!!!

If you think how you will pay for your training is your personal business then you probably shouldn't apply to CTOR because they ask for proof of at least one years tuition as a liquid assets....although I think this is a good idea that all the overly expensive programs should require to not further bury students in debt. Imagine if non-asset backed student loans had a max limit of say 200k. Average cost of a dental education would likely stay around there rather than continually increasing. The supply of students with assets to cover anything above 200k would decrease in conjunction with cost increases above that 200k mark.

 

[011110]

I’m sorry but does anyone think this is actually a sane thing to go to this program?

 

[CaliDDS1986]

I’m sorry but does anyone think this is actually a sane thing to go to this program?

I’d have to agree on this one. 3 years for 300k for a new program? Ortho is not the cash cow it was. Honestly, put the 300k if you have it in index funds. In 30 years you’ll have more money from that than you will from this program lol

 

[jobayanks29]

Any other opinions?

 

[e00z]

Do it if you want to be an orthodontist and can afford it.

 

[charlestweed]

it looks like this website was built on squarespace in 15 minutes.

No tuition and fees listed but of course they have this.

View attachment 350821

this screams scam to me.

Why can't they just be up front and clear about their tuition.

It's not a scam since they post this requirement on their website. If it's accreditted by the ADA, then it's a legit ortho program.

At least there’s something I can do for my son if he chooses to follow my footstep and doesn’t have good enough grades to get into other ortho programs. Practicing general dentistry is hard. But he’s currently interested in pursuing medicine. And dentistry is the backup plan.

 

[charlestweed]

LOL anybody who does this program is D-U-M-B!!!

Ortho doesn’t make crap anymore, it’s a shrinking field lol

“pay me $300,000 for a declining job market”

Not a dumb move, if you (or your parents) have the money to pay for it. Ortho is still one of the most desirable healthcare jobs if you don't have any debt. A lot of people have tried to do anything to get out of the stressful job of general dentistry.

I don't mind paying for my son if he chooses my follow my footstep. At least he has a good stable (and easy) job after I am gone. My kids need to be self-sufficient. I can't live forever to support them.

 

[011110]

Not a dumb move, if you (or your parents) have the money to pay for it. Ortho is still one of the most desirable healthcare jobs if you don't have any debt. A lot of people have tried to do anything to get out of the stressful job of general dentistry.

I don't mind paying for my son if he chooses my follow my footstep. At least he has a good stable (and easy) job after I am gone. My kids need to be self-sufficient. I can't live forever to support them.

Yea but your an ortho with practices your son can go into. What about someone graduating who has no plans where to go after graduation?

 

[charlestweed]

Yea but your an ortho with practices your son can go into. What about someone graduating who has no plans where to go after graduation?

Wouldn't it be nice if my son could take over my "thriving" practice? The problem is he's only 17. It will take 11-13 years for him to get the ortho certificate if he chooses dentistry. By that time, I will be too old (63) to work hard to maintain the success of my practice. It requires a lot of efforts to keep the patients and referring GPs happy. By that time the practice will probably be worth nothing.....I will just do like what 2THMR is doing right now...close down/give up my practice and work for the corp 2-3 days a week. Another reason why I don't think my son would take over my practice is I am a very low tech guy. Most of the new grad orthos are spoiled with new technology.

A new grad ortho can get a 1-2 day/wk job at a couple of local corp offices if he is too lazy to travel long distance.....and if he has zero loan to pay back. He still makes more than what a new grad GP makes working 5 days/wk. An ortho certificate is a priceless piece of paper because it equates to a good lifestyle and job security, which are also priceless. So it's not a dumb decision if one has the money to pay for programs like CTOR and Georgia.

 

[D1Bound]

How do you get accredited to make a program? Can I get a building with a clinic and start my own residency after filling out some papers? I would think the ADA would make it really tough

 

[Love orthodontics]

Just letting you know I visited CTOR Academy this week. And I have no doubt any more about the quality of their program.
I guess that to get accredited, they need to do what they advertise ...

The faculty there are very experienced orthodontists and are researchers too. They worked at different universities before, but what impressed me the most was their excitement about orthodontics. They were very, very serious about making a difference in the specialty.
The facilities were amazing, good taste, all digital and the latest equipment including iTero scans and CBCT.
This is it! This is exactly where I wish to get my training if I am lucky enough to get in.

I have visited several university programs last year and and I was not impressed at all: old clinics, crowded with many residents, old faculty, just outdated places and people... Or the other way around, empty spaces, part time faculty teaching that are retired orthodontists just passing their time, talking about everything but orthodontics. I will not put my money in those places, even if they have a big name.
CTOR Academy price tag is actually similar to many of those universities I visited recently but the program seems way better.

Some people invest in cars, or boats , or houses, I decided to invest in my education. But I think that the decision to become an orthodontist can not simply be based on the cost of the education or how easy will be to pay back the education loans.
Every orthodontist I know seems to enjoy what they are doing, love their patients and what they do for them, and take advantage of being their own bosses by taking vacations whenever they want or traveling a lot. I want that too! And I am willing to pay the price.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and advice. Thank you charlestweed for the orthodontist insight.

 

[011110]

Just letting you know I visited CTOR Academy this week. And I have no doubt any more about the quality of their program.
I guess that to get accredited, they need to do what they advertise ...

The faculty there are very experienced orthodontists and are researchers too. They worked at different universities before, but what impressed me the most was their excitement about orthodontics. They were very, very serious about making a difference in the specialty.
The facilities were amazing, good taste, all digital and the latest equipment including iTero scans and CBCT.
This is it! This is exactly where I wish to get my training if I am lucky enough to get in.

I have visited several university programs last year and and I was not impressed at all: old clinics, crowded with many residents, old faculty, just outdated places and people... Or the other way around, empty spaces, part time faculty teaching that are retired orthodontists just passing their time, talking about everything but orthodontics. I will not put my money in those places, even if they have a big name.
CTOR Academy price tag is actually similar to many of those universities I visited recently but the program seems way better.

Some people invest in cars, or boats , or houses, I decided to invest in my education. But I think that the decision to become an orthodontist can not simply be based on the cost of the education or how easy will be to pay back the education loans.
Every orthodontist I know seems to enjoy what they are doing, love their patients and what they do for them, and take advantage of being their own bosses by taking vacations whenever they want or traveling a lot. I want that too! And I am willing to pay the price.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and advice. Thank you charlestweed for the orthodontist insight.

I would bet my $300,000 in tuition money you are either the program director, dean, or founder. Why? Because the residents money will be going right into YOUR pocket. Thanks for advertising on here though.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I would bet my $300,000 in tuition money you are either the program director, dean, or founder. Why? Because the residents money will be going right into YOUR pocket. Thanks for advertising on here though.

I had already noticed the accounts for @Love orthodontics and @CTOR Academy Orthodontics were created 1 day apart. Coincidence?

Big Hoss

 

[deleted903013]

But I think that the decision to become an orthodontist can not simply be based on the cost of the education or how easy will be to pay back the education loans.

Out of curiosity, what debt limit is too high to be an orthodontist in your opinion?

 

[D1Bound]

I had already noticed the accounts for @Love orthodontics and @CTOR Academy Orthodontics were created 1 day apart. Coincidence?

Big Hoss

Can we petition the ADA to do something about this so orthodontics does not become like pharmacy?

 

[011110]

I had already noticed the accounts for @Love orthodontics and @CTOR Academy Orthodontics were created 1 day apart. Coincidence?

Big Hoss

Which is why I said anyone that does this program is dumb. When you have the founder, dean, or whatever come on here and say “hey come join my program. Pay me $300,000 and you’ll have an ortho certificate!” It just seems like a scam like someone is trying to sell ice to eskimos. Ask yourself: how great can being an orthodontist be if you have people with financial interests actively recruiting you to pay them. Realize they are making profits off of you. Ortho is not worth it DONT listen to them or charlestweed, he also graduated in a different time.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Can we petition the ADA to do something about this so orthodontics does not become like pharmacy?

It’s probably too late. It takes a place like the Mayo Clinic nearly two decades to graduate as many orthos as the Georgia School of Orthodontics does in a single year.

Big Hoss

 

[2TH MVR]

I had already noticed the accounts for @Love orthodontics and @CTOR Academy Orthodontics were created 1 day apart. Coincidence?

Big Hoss

Too funny and quite interesting. Love's last post did sound like a shining endorsement for a pay to play ortho residency. Oh excuse me. An ortho Academy.

Everytime one of these for profit ortho mills pop up ... there is the usual amount of dumping on ortho. Like all dental specialties including general .... if you overpay ...... you will suffer the financial consequences. That's reality.

Our DSO hired 3 more orthodontists. 2 just graduated. One is debt free and married to a pediatric dentist. His life moving forward has so much financial potential. The other? A little over 800K in debt. Both are orthodontists, but both will not be living the same life.

 

[charlestweed]

Can we petition the ADA to do something about this so orthodontics does not become like pharmacy?

I am afraid we, little people, cannot do anything about it. These are big powerful people with lots of money. Just have to work hard to pay off debts and save for your children's future education.....and this is within our reach. At least in America, hard work will usually give you great reward. It's not the same in other countries.

 

[charlestweed]

Which is why I said anyone that does this program is dumb. When you have the founder, dean, or whatever come on here and say “hey come join my program. Pay me $300,000 and you’ll have an ortho certificate!” It just seems like a scam like someone is trying to sell ice to eskimos. Ask yourself: how great can being an orthodontist be if you have people with financial interests actively recruiting you to pay them. Realize they are making profits off of you. Ortho is not worth it DONT listen to them or charlestweed, he also graduated in a different time.

I am doing better than some of my colleagues not because I graduated at a different time. Unlike many of my colleagues, I view ortho just as a job and to be sucessful, I have to work hard. You are not entitled to a good paying job, just because you had worked harder than your dental classmates and got into an ortho program. Just because you are an ortho, other GP offices will have to referred patients to you. If it was too easy to make money in ortho, I wouldn't have had to work on the weekends, accept medicaid, charge low fees, work PT for Corp offices to supplement my income etc. CA has always been an oversaturated state. I am working right now....and today is Sunday.

I know this CTOR program is unfair for those hard working dental students, who try to get good grades to get into ortho the right way. Life isn't fair sometimes. Chelsea Clinton may not have gotten into Stanford and Malia Obama may not have gotten into Harvard if their dads were not US presidents. I don't think my son, who had a 1560 SAT score and 5s on all 9 AP exams (he'll take 5 more AP exams by the end of his senior yr), would get into either of these schools if he applied. He got a series of rejections from all the BS/MD programs that he applied to. One program that granted him an interview also rejected him. We didn't feel disapointed because we all knew getting into med school is a difficult process. My son will just have to keep working hard.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

At least in America, hard work will usually give you great reward. It's not the same in other countries.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for the win! If only I could get corrupt politicians out of my way...

Big Hoss

 

[Love orthodontics]

Out of curiosity, what debt limit is too high to be an orthodontist in your opinion?

Since you are curious, I did freak out after Dental School about my education debt and the crushing feeling that I would never be able to pay it back. Then, true story, a financial adviser contacted me. He must have found my contact info in some Dental School graduate list or something like that. He offered a free consultation and we had a very interesting and long conversation. He changed my view on debt and honestly, my career goals.

He asked "why are you so obsessed about paying off your debt as soon as possible? You education loans have a low interest, lower than any other loan you might try to obtain in life."
He explained that if I was going to do everything I wanted to do in my life, without a rich family member to back me up, I would most likely accumulate much more debt: if I bought my own practice, if I specialized, if I bought a house...
And when I asked "when am I supposed to pay all that debt?" he replied "over the rest of your life..."
He said "you will travel, you may even start family, and invest... while slowly paying off your debt"

I don't care who Big Hoss thinks I am. I do take advice seriously, specially from people that have already done what I want to do.
And when it comes to orthodontics, I am yet to meet an orthodontists that advises me not to take that path.

When I heard about CTOR program accreditation I came here for advice. But the discussion has not been very helpful.
Like I said, I already have a financial adviser!

I am not stupid, I know it is a very competitive field. So while you continue to discuss here if the ortho specialty tuition is fair or not, I am going to apply to CTOR program before they get 300 other candidates!

To answer fermi555 question, I do not have a limit because I am not afraid of debt if it allows me to do what I love to do.
My current education debt is over $200K.
Anyway... I plan to pay that and the ortho tuition, if I get in, over the next 30 years. You know? Just like a mortgage.

 

[D1Bound]

Since you are curious, I did freak out after Dental School about my education debt and the crushing feeling that I would never be able to pay it back. Then, true story, a financial adviser contacted me. He must have found my contact info in some Dental School graduate list or something like that. He offered a free consultation and we had a very interesting and long conversation. He changed my view on debt and honestly, my career goals.

He asked "why are you so obsessed about paying off your debt as soon as possible? You education loans have a low interest, lower than any other loan you might try to obtain in life."
He explained that if I was going to do everything I wanted to do in my life, without a rich family member to back me up, I would most likely accumulate much more debt: if I bought my own practice, if I specialized, if I bought a house...
And when I asked "when am I supposed to pay all that debt?" he replied "over the rest of your life..."
He said "you will travel, you may even start family, and invest... while slowly paying off your debt"

I don't care who Big Hoss thinks I am. I do take advice seriously, specially from people that have already done what I want to do.
And when it comes to orthodontics, I am yet to meet an orthodontists that advises me not to take that path.

When I heard about CTOR program accreditation I came here for advice. But the discussion has not been very helpful.
Like I said, I already have a financial adviser!

I am not stupid, I know it is a very competitive field. So while you continue to discuss here if the ortho specialty tuition is fair or not, I am going to apply to CTOR program before they get 300 other candidates!

To answer fermi555 question, I do not have a limit because I am not afraid of debt if it allows me to do what I love to do.
My current education debt is over $200K.
Anyway... I plan to pay that and the ortho tuition, if I get in, over the next 30 years. You know? Just like a mortgage.

I agree that there is a certain amount of “good” debt. However, if you start knocking on the door of 800k plus of student loans that can be crippling. I don’t even know how much interest that would be a month. Maybe 7k? I’m sure the representative’s at CTOR will pitch the classic “oh you’ll pay it off no problem” line. Students need to actually sit and think about a debt level like this. You CAN’T brush it aside.

 

[T00thDr]

Since you are curious, I did freak out after Dental School about my education debt and the crushing feeling that I would never be able to pay it back. Then, true story, a financial adviser contacted me. He must have found my contact info in some Dental School graduate list or something like that. He offered a free consultation and we had a very interesting and long conversation. He changed my view on debt and honestly, my career goals.

He asked "why are you so obsessed about paying off your debt as soon as possible? You education loans have a low interest, lower than any other loan you might try to obtain in life."
He explained that if I was going to do everything I wanted to do in my life, without a rich family member to back me up, I would most likely accumulate much more debt: if I bought my own practice, if I specialized, if I bought a house...
And when I asked "when am I supposed to pay all that debt?" he replied "over the rest of your life..."
He said "you will travel, you may even start family, and invest... while slowly paying off your debt"

I don't care who Big Hoss thinks I am. I do take advice seriously, specially from people that have already done what I want to do.
And when it comes to orthodontics, I am yet to meet an orthodontists that advises me not to take that path.

When I heard about CTOR program accreditation I came here for advice. But the discussion has not been very helpful.
Like I said, I already have a financial adviser!

I am not stupid, I know it is a very competitive field. So while you continue to discuss here if the ortho specialty tuition is fair or not, I am going to apply to CTOR program before they get 300 other candidates!

To answer fermi555 question, I do not have a limit because I am not afraid of debt if it allows me to do what I love to do.
My current education debt is over $200K.
Anyway... I plan to pay that and the ortho tuition, if I get in, over the next 30 years. You know? Just like a mortgage.

Any financial advisor that tells you don't worry about debt limits and just keep accruing whatever debt and pay it throughout your life is not a financial advisor.

That person is not going to be paying your $3000/month+ minimum payments. If you break your leg and cant work for a few months, that person is not going to step in and make sure you are making your payments. Honestly, I am shocked that you took them seriously.

To normalize paying off education debt for 30 years "like a mortgage" tells me how far you have stepped away from reality. The cost of this program is horrible and to think that only children of wealthy families or with wealth from other means can afford this program makes it even worse.