Current 4th year Medical Student in Australia( happy to answer any questions)

[redhawk98]

Ask anything you would like.

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[Bella111]

Do you plan on staying after graduation? If yes, do you believe you have a good chance of securing an internship? How do you plan on getting a PR afterwards?

 

[redhawk98]

I do plan on staying. Most of my international classmates planned to return back to Canada. The truth is you need alot of planning in advance(most people like myself did not). You need to write multiple exams during you're final year( most people do not). Most importantly you need connections back home to help arrange electives in the areas of you're interest.

Do I believe I have a good shot a securing internship? hmm I hope so, Impossible to tell. Last year the cohort above mine all got internships some of them 2 weeks before work started. Every year their seems to be more internationals, USYD has something like 50 more internationals this year than last year. Student Statistics Tables - Medical Deans Australia and New Zealand this is a good link to show the trends.

I applied to rural areas because one that is my passion, and two increased chances of getting work. Most internationals these days will also apply to rural areas. The idea that if you are willing to go rural you will get a job is incorrect. Most Universities also do not offer international students rural rotations.

Something to note my cohort( small sample size) 40% of the internationals failed a year = more tuition/ stressful position to be in.
Everyone seems to ignore the difficulties of going through medical school, and only worry about the job prospects.

PR status, I'm not there yet for me its one step at a time, once you get an internship I believe there will eventually be a path to getting a PR.

Rural Internship results come out tomorrow for domestics, not sure when CAT 4 offers are released for internationals.

Another thing is post graduate training does not end after internship. If you are surgically inclined it may take you 3-5 years post graduate to get into a program. I would also say that you are lucky to get one within that time frame.

Also just to note last year there were internationals who wanted to stay in Australia and missed out on positions. I can not comment on their flexibility though.

 

[marble30]

Something to note my cohort( small sample size) 40% of the internationals failed a year = more tuition/ stressful position to be in.
Everyone seems to ignore the difficulties of going through medical school, and only worry about the job prospects.

Wanted to add to this as I also personally know quite a few internationals who failed a year. At least three of them dropped out of med altogether during MS3 after failing 3rd year while the other ended up taking 6 years to complete the 4 year program (failed multiple years).

That's not to say that the uni programs are biased towards international students but I feel it's probably a larger reflection of the fact that int'l students have to get adjusted to a new country/uni/degree program in addition to stressing about additional exams (usmle/carms) and research/ECs to build up their application to return to North America for residency along with fears about whether or not they'll get an internship spot in the background and the massive amount of debt.

Med school is not easy and I'd say that it would be putting the cart before the horse to start stressing too deeply about internship as a pre-med. Rather, be aware that you'll have more barriers than your local classmates if you do decide to come to Australia but your first goal is passing med school and getting your degree.

Just because the attrition rate is nowhere near as bad as the Caribbean doesn't mean that everyone gets through.

 

[tdsb]

Ask anything you would like.

Can I ask which state you are in? Also, have you decided on which specialty you want?

 

[redhawk98]

I'm in NSW. Very passionate about rural medicine, so GP with emergency/anaesthetics suits me pretty well.

 

[piefondler]

The fact that 40% of the international students failed a year at USyd is shocking. At my school, I think only 1 international failed in the last couple years

 

[redhawk98]

So to clarify I'm not at USYD, so I can not comment on the fail rate for USYD.

 

[dragon18]

which school?

 

[redhawk98]

I would rather not say

 

[marble30]

The fact that 40% of the international students failed a year at USyd is shocking. At my school, I think only 1 international failed in the last couple years

The failure rate for USyd was about 5-8% of the cohort (domestic + int'l) per year when I was there, which is similar to USMD school stats.

 

[mcat_taker]

The fact that 40% of the international students failed a year at USyd is shocking. At my school, I think only 1 international failed in the last couple years

He's probably talking about Wollongong if he's an international in NSW and not at Sydney. You have to remember there are only like 12 internationals per year there so if 4-5 repeat a year you get 40 percent. That seems more plausible.

 

[Med201821]

It is certainly not UOW with a 40 % fail rate of the international students.

 

[XoHealinghands8]

Hello redhawk98, thank you so much for offering to answer questions for us. this is very kind of you.

I made a post about this and was just wondering if you perhaps would have any insight on my questions:

1. How is your experience in Australia in general, do you like living there? Where were you living before if you don't mind me asking

2. How is the work-life balance for med students and doctors in Aus (In terms of # of hours in residency, responsibilities, studying etc)

3. Approximately how much would it cost to study in Aus or NZ (Tuition+living costs), I heard it was around $400,000. Whats your plan to finance your education if u dont mind me asking

4. If I were to get partner visa in Aus/NZ, would I be able to switch over and pay domestic tuition instead -- are you aware of anyone doing this?

5. I was thinking about becoming a pediatrician, and was wondering if I could come back to Canada as a pediatrician after training in Australia?

 

[Naruhodo]

Yes, thanks for doing this!

As a US medical student married to an Aussie I've been trying to strategize how to spend a year or two there. Currently my plan is to do residency in the US, and then apply for either A) Postdoctoral research positions or B) locum tenens positions in Australia. One of my clinical mentors did a locum in NZ post-residency, but she is family medicine and worked in a more rural community, whereas I am planning to specialize at this point and my in-laws are in a large Australian city... I have time to work on the plan, but I'm wondering if you've encountered US doctors taking either of these paths?

 

[redhawk98]

So a few key points the University I'm attending is not relevant, and I would like to maintain my privacy so I will not share that info. Now Australian medical schools are very reputable and due to lower admission criteria for internationals you will get some that just need more time/ etc to get through, so they may have to repeat. My main point is that do not underestimate the difficulty of studying medicine and failing is a very realistic thing and is not uncommon.

 

[redhawk98]

Hello redhawk98, thank you so much for offering to answer questions for us. this is very kind of you.

I made a post about this and was just wondering if you perhaps would have any insight on my questions:

1. How is your experience in Australia in general, do you like living there? Where were you living before if you don't mind me asking

2. How is the work-life balance for med students and doctors in Aus (In terms of # of hours in residency, responsibilities, studying etc)

3. Approximately how much would it cost to study in Aus or NZ (Tuition+living costs), I heard it was around $400,000. Whats your plan to finance your education if u dont mind me asking

4. If I were to get partner visa in Aus/NZ, would I be able to switch over and pay domestic tuition instead -- are you aware of anyone doing this?

5. I was thinking about becoming a pediatrician, and was wondering if I could come back to Canada as a pediatrician after training in Australia?

1. I have not done much travelling prior to starting medicine, so initially it was very exciting, if you come from Canada, the people and culture is more or less the same. Probably more on the conservative end here compared to Canada. Beautiful country lots to explore. I love the weather so that is a big plus for me, its basically an all year summer. Costs in certain aspects are higher, restaurants /eating out here is much more expensive than Canada. However, I find groceries cheaper. Rent is expensive and there is big variance depending where you live. Overall living here has been a wonderful experience, but you may not enjoy it as much because of all the studying/stress throughout medical school.

2. Probably similar as a student, you can work as hard as you'd like i.e spend all you're time on the wards helping, getting involved and studying. Or you can do the minimum and spend most of you're time on the beach. You're an adult learner, and what you get from the degree depends on how much work you are willing to put in. As an international the majority work very hard, 300-400k in tuition is a strong motivator. I was a part of the group that spent the majority of the time studying/ on wards/ED / theatre etc. Looking back I could have had a better balance, but the pressure was too much, and I always felt I had to work. As for doctors again it's up to you, you can chose to work 70 hours a week and always be on call , or you can choose to work 3 days a week. Location obviously matters i.e big centre, small country town etc etc. With that being said I have not worked in Canada so my comments are anecdotal.

3. It ranges from 300-400 depending on the university you chose go with. When it comes to internship/residency it doesn't matter where you go, no one will care. In Canada you are and IMG, and you're an international student in Australia. Some people use on bank loans, some have it all paid by family, some its a combination of the two.

4. Some Universities may allow for this others do not, if you are coming in as international and switching to a domestic spot I think that means means there needs to be a domestic spot open for you? I'm not sure of how it works, I do not know of anyone being able to do this. If you get a PR prior to starting medicine though you will have to go through the regular admission process. I would call the Universities individually and ask as they don't share the same policy.

5. You're mind may change as you start doing rotations in paediatrics etc , so I would try to go in more open minded even if you have experience working with children. One important thing you need to know its training here is very different than Canada. After medical school you do a year of internship and than a "resident" year. After you complete these years you can apply for training positions, it's very competitive to get into training positions in Australia. I imagine paediatrics is fairly competitive not nearly as competitive as surgery, but still difficult to get a position. You're pathway into paediatrics would be Medical school(4 years) intern/resident year(2 years), Registrar ( this is basically a Canadian resident)- anywhere from 5-7 years depending on how quickly you can get into a training program, you have to do probably do at least 1 year of being unaccredited registrar which means you do the job, but you're not technically doing the official training. Be mindful though don't think you're journey ends when you finish paediatrics training. You may finish you're training and find no positions in a terrible job market, and have to work in a rural community which you may not want to do. You may also just be an outpatient paediatrician , and spend 90% of you're time doing allergies and ADHD( not that there is anything wrong with that, just be aware of the challenges you might face down the line). In terms of Canada I wouldn't know if the you can work there or not, I know you can for family medicine.

 

[redhawk98]

Yes, thanks for doing this!

As a US medical student married to an Aussie I've been trying to strategize how to spend a year or two there. Currently my plan is to do residency in the US, and then apply for either A) Postdoctoral research positions or B) locum tenens positions in Australia. One of my clinical mentors did a locum in NZ post-residency, but she is family medicine and worked in a more rural community, whereas I am planning to specialize at this point and my in-laws are in a large Australian city... I have time to work on the plan, but I'm wondering if you've encountered US doctors taking either of these paths?

Yup I have encountered actually a few specialists who are American, and work in the ED. In terms of logistics I would have no clue. Probably some visa hurdles as well. At least you wont have to do Step1/2!

 

[Naruhodo]

Yup I have encountered actually a few specialists who are American, and work in the ED. In terms of logistics I would have no clue. Probably some visa hurdles as well. At least you wont have to do Step1/2!

Pretty sure US residencies still require Step1/2, but I appreciate the optimism . I'd be eligible for permanent residency through my spouse, but it's quite an expensive process and I have no clue how it might affect the job search one way or the other. You're right that there's probably a ton of logistics to sort out, but nice to know it can be done.

 

[sean80439]

You just need your general registration before you can apply.

 

[Bella111]

You just need your general registration before you can apply.

I deleted my post b/c I think I was misinformed a bit.
Do you mean through the points system? So after you graduate, you do the intern years through 485 visa, then I need to get a job as a RMO so I can have the 457 visa for up to 4 years, where I will get 10 points. I calculated it on the website and it says I will have 75 points by then. Is it possible to become a RMO after 1 year of internship?

 

[sean80439]

457 is gone. You are an RMO after intern year. Yes you need sufficient points. That’s something you’ll have to figure out. The 482 replaced the 457.

 

[IMG69]

Do you have any idea on how easy it is to do PGY1 in the UK then move to AUS to secure a spot if you have NZ/AUS citizenship. The consensus here is that its extremely easy to just do that and apply as a PGY2/Senior resident? Any take on it?

 

[Kakaonkaka]

Something to note my cohort( small sample size) 40% of the internationals failed a year = more tuition/ stressful position to be in.

what??? That's insane, what Uni is this? I'm 4th year at UQ and I'd say the fail rate is approximately 10% here

 

[marble30]

what??? That's insane, what Uni is this? I'm 4th year at UQ and I'd say the fail rate is approximately 10% here

Probs UOW but I could be wrong.

 

[BigPikachu]

I'm in NSW. Very passionate about rural medicine, so GP with emergency/anaesthetics suits me pretty well.

Rural medicine is very fufilling; hard work but very rewarding career track. Are you going to go via FRACGP+FARGP or FACRRM route?

 

[XoHealinghands8]

Hi there!! I wanted to ask you about the difference between "basic training" vs "advanced training" & how that works in Australia? For example, I was interested in becoming a general pediatrician and according to RACP it takes 6 years -- 3 years of "basic training" & another 3 years of "advanced training": Paediatrics & Child Health

However is "advanced training" equivalent to what North America considers a "fellowship". So could one potentially do 3 years and be a general pediatrician and only do the other 3 years of advanced training if they wanted to sub-specialize? Totally confused about this and would love some insight!

Thanks so much in advance for taking the time to answer our questions!

 

[dragon18]

Rural medicine is very fufilling; hard work but very rewarding career track. Are you going to go via FRACGP+FARGP or FACRRM route?

What is the differences between the two pathways in the long term? For instance, is there any difference when seeking residency, or differences in terms of how it impacts your career.