Dismissal from M1

[confused1002]

I just created an account to post this. This past year, my 'friend' enrolled as an M1 at a new DO school. He like many struggled through some of his classes, but ultimately passed all but one in the spring. He was given the option to remediate this class during summer. The first time he took the class, he was told he missed the passing cut off by one point, so out of a sum of 600 points, he failed by 1 point (not an actual percentage point if that makes sense). When he asked to see his previous exams and go over them with one of the deans, he was denied the right to do so, stating no one was allowed to see the exams after the review sessions. He studied all summer and took the remediation exam. He was supposed to receive notification of his grade within a day, but instead he had to wait three days.
When the dean finally called him, he was told he failed by 3 points. He was completely shocked, as his best friend is in an MD school, and he had access to all of his old quizzes and tests to study by, and had done wonderful on the practice exams. He asked what he was supposed to do now, and the dean of students told him he would have to meet with the SPC as he had done previously and await their decision.

He met with them. and believed his meeting went well, and that they all told him they believed in him and thought he deserved another chance. The dean of students emailed him, telling him to report to school for a meeting within 36 hours. He explained how he had left his car at school after his exam and flown back to see his family (13 hours away), and didn't even have a car to get back that quickly, especially since classes were to start for M2 in 6 days, and he still had to pack and load his family and drive them down (he has a small child). The dean said if he didn't come it would mean immediate dismissal. so having no choice, he rented a car and made the drive overnight to meet with the dean, who point blank told him as soon as the meeting began he was being dismissed, and handed him paper work to fill out if he wished to submit an appeal.

Here's where things get really strange. The dean told him, as stated in the hand book, that he had 72 hours to submit an appeal, and that the school had 72 hours from the time of that meeting to form a 3 person committee to meet with him. The dean said to not leave town, and keep his phone on him at all times. So for three days he waited, called, and emailed, asking what was going on. and still heard nothing back. ( all the while his wife is back home, working full time, and had to find someone to watch their child). on the fourth day, the dean of students emailed him, said there would be NO meeting with the 3 person committee, and that he was being offered a spot for readmission into the next year's M1 class, which by this point in time was supposed to start within 24 hours.

After talking with his family, he decided to not accept this offer, and began packing up his house to return to his family. A week later....

It comes out at school that this exact same situation had happened to six other students. But ONLY students taking this particular course. Every other course that people failed, they passed their remediation exams. So it just seemed like to me, it was 'almost' rigged. Why would they give a remediation exam and fail everyone? and offer them admission in the next years class? Was it just about the money? Am I looking too far into this? It just seems like a very very odd situation, especially since all other courses were remediated 100 percent successfully. Any advice? Could any legal action be taken? or is this just a case of poor management on the school's part? They for sure violated the 72 hour window of time. Their handbook also says you are allowed no legal counsel during the SPC meetings, or the meetings with the dean, nor can they recorded or taped. Is that even legal? Or can private schools really set rules like this, blow them off, and get away with it? Any advice is truly appreciated. thank you to all who read the entire thing.

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[EMDO2018]

They wanna kick him out over 1 point? Is he in Caribbean MD?

 

[Serous Demilune]

They wanna kick him out over 1 point? Is he in Caribbean MD?

New DO school.

 

[confused1002]

No, it's a DO school here in the states. I should mention, he had good stats coming in, 3.4 gpa, a masters, and a 34 on the mcat. He was a good student.

 

[Ogmora]

FERPA states that every student must be given access to grades and has access to his/her records for three years after the grade is given. I don't know the extent of what is supposed to be made available to the student (i.e. the final semester grade, individual test grades, or specific answers that a student got wrong, etc.) but it might be in your friends best interest to find someone working in the practice of education law(?) who knows a good deal about FERPA.

Hard to believe a school is just looking for an extra ~50k. If they're a new school, they can only enroll a certain number of students...why would they admit one student (who they don't believe will pass) over an eager, non-redshirt student when both will be paying the same tuition?

Are you not anonymous enough to post the relative geographic location of the school...or the school itself?

 

[sebass2012]

It seems odd

 

[acapnial]

Truth be told, after failing a course and the remediation, Johnny Cochran couldn't get him into second year. The meetings would have been about whether or not to re-offer him a spot in the first year. He could probably google "education lawyers" to get a start on who in his area might be able to help him, but he should be sure he has some idea of what outcome he hopes to see (and whether it's realistic). They will probably make him exhaust all options to appeal provided by the school before they do very much.

 

[FutureInternist]

Why did he not take the offer?

If he's been told he is not going into 2nd year & he already passed all but one class in first year then his 2nd time around will be a lot easier/less stressful & he can show that he overcame adversity

Giving up the first times things went wrong is a no-no

 

[deleted480308]

they blew it when they didn't show up for school...I'm sorry

 

[costales]

They wanna kick him out over 1 point?

Cutoffs are cutoffs - for boards and school exams. Lines have to be drawn somewhere, otherwise it's a slippery slope. The poster Bones got kicked out of NYCOM for missing 1 point in the second class that he failed. (RVU gave him another shot and he's now a resident - he's pretty much the only documented/confirmed case of redemption on SDN for an academic dismissal).

 

[costales]

OP: Sorry to hear about your friend's plight. I applaud his willingness to stand up for principles or whatever, but he should have accepted the offer.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

You seem to be trying to stir up sympathy with your description of the process...as though asking a student with a pending appeal to stay in town while the process is sorted out is particularly onerous.

Bottom line...he had marginal performance on both the original coursework and the remediation. His school offered him a chance to repeat first year rather than expel him. He should have taken the offer.

 

[seminoma]

I just created an account to post this. This past year, my 'friend' enrolled as an M1 at a new DO school. He like many struggled through some of his classes, but ultimately passed all but one in the spring. He was given the option to remediate this class during summer. The first time he took the class, he was told he missed the passing cut off by one point, so out of a sum of 600 points, he failed by 1 point (not an actual percentage point if that makes sense). When he asked to see his previous exams and go over them with one of the deans, he was denied the right to do so, stating no one was allowed to see the exams after the review sessions. He studied all summer and took the remediation exam. He was supposed to receive notification of his grade within a day, but instead he had to wait three days.
When the dean finally called him, he was told he failed by 3 points. He was completely shocked, as his best friend is in an MD school, and he had access to all of his old quizzes and tests to study by, and had done wonderful on the practice exams. He asked what he was supposed to do now, and the dean of students told him he would have to meet with the SPC as he had done previously and await their decision.

He met with them. and believed his meeting went well, and that they all told him they believed in him and thought he deserved another chance. The dean of students emailed him, telling him to report to school for a meeting within 36 hours. He explained how he had left his car at school after his exam and flown back to see his family (13 hours away), and didn't even have a car to get back that quickly, especially since classes were to start for M2 in 6 days, and he still had to pack and load his family and drive them down (he has a small child). The dean said if he didn't come it would mean immediate dismissal. so having no choice, he rented a car and made the drive overnight to meet with the dean, who point blank told him as soon as the meeting began he was being dismissed, and handed him paper work to fill out if he wished to submit an appeal.

Here's where things get really strange. The dean told him, as stated in the hand book, that he had 72 hours to submit an appeal, and that the school had 72 hours from the time of that meeting to form a 3 person committee to meet with him. The dean said to not leave town, and keep his phone on him at all times. So for three days he waited, called, and emailed, asking what was going on. and still heard nothing back. ( all the while his wife is back home, working full time, and had to find someone to watch their child). on the fourth day, the dean of students emailed him, said there would be NO meeting with the 3 person committee, and that he was being offered a spot for readmission into the next year's M1 class, which by this point in time was supposed to start within 24 hours.

After talking with his family, he decided to not accept this offer, and began packing up his house to return to his family. A week later....

It comes out at school that this exact same situation had happened to six other students. But ONLY students taking this particular course. Every other course that people failed, they passed their remediation exams. So it just seemed like to me, it was 'almost' rigged. Why would they give a remediation exam and fail everyone? and offer them admission in the next years class? Was it just about the money? Am I looking too far into this? It just seems like a very very odd situation, especially since all other courses were remediated 100 percent successfully. Any advice? Could any legal action be taken? or is this just a case of poor management on the school's part? They for sure violated the 72 hour window of time. Their handbook also says you are allowed no legal counsel during the SPC meetings, or the meetings with the dean, nor can they recorded or taped. Is that even legal? Or can private schools really set rules like this, blow them off, and get away with it? Any advice is truly appreciated. thank you to all who read the entire thing.

I don't see anything wrong here. Student fails a course, fails remediation, and is offered a chance to repeat the year. Sure, the Dean wasn't the most professional or helpful, but ensuring a smooth remediation process for a single student isn't the Dean's job.

 

[SurgeDO]

your friend seems to have an entitlement issue. if you fail a class, even if it is by 0.0000000001%, you are at the mercy of your school's administration. are you honestly complaining about having to drive to meet with your dean? time to grow up.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Why wouldn't he take the offer? Some schools don't charge tuition for the second time around? A friend of mine repeated MS1 due to failure and didn't have to pay all over again because she only failed two classes. Everything was audited besides those two and no extra tuition.

Cutoffs are cutoffs - for boards and school exams. Lines have to be drawn somewhere, otherwise it's a slippery slope. The poster Bones got kicked out of NYCOM for missing 1 point in the second class that he failed. (RVU gave him another shot and he's now a resident - he's pretty much the only documented/confirmed case of redemption on SDN for an academic dismissal).

There's another one too. Can't remember the name now, but there's definitely one other student who had an academic dismissal overturned and has been helpful on these forums.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Do you mind PMing me with the school name? I have an idea of which one (I have heard a few goofy things about this school). But I want to make sure this isn't one of the new schools that I have high hopes of attending. I don't dig that kind of administrative management. I feel that it can be representative of larger problems within the system.

 

[Ogmora]

Do you mind PMing me with the school name? I have an idea of which one (I have heard a few goofy things about this school). But I want to make sure this isn't one of the new schools that I have high hopes of attending. I don't dig that kind of administrative management. I feel that it can be representative of larger problems within the system.

Care to PM me the name of the school you heard goofy things about? I have a feeling I know which one, but I'd like to be more certain...

 

[smpbound]

Failing out of DO school? A lot of SDN posters say that it's really hard to fail out but according to this, it seems pretty easy.

Also, where does a person go after dropping out of DO school ? Chiropractic school?

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Also, where does a person go after dropping out of DO school ? Chiropractic school?

Naw they go to MD school. Lighter class load =Easier and still get to be a medical doctor.

 

[touchpause13]

Naw they go to MD school. Lighter class load =Easier and still get to be a medical doctor.

You always deliver Kenobi

 

[hallowmann]

Not really sure why they didn't take the offer. Also, I doubt the school would go that far out of its way to add 6 people to the new MS1 class (they could likely easily fill the class even without it).

Also, the idea that 6 people failed the same class remediation exam when everyone passed the others isn't that strange because it could just have been a more difficult class or the teacher for that class could have just not been great or not made it clear what was expected of the students. In that situation, only the people who were self-motivated and went above and beyond would have done well.

 

[DocWinter]

I believe that if a school wanted another 50K in tuition, they would simply raise tuition for everyone. Even 250K, that is more than taken care of with regular yearly 2-4% increases for the entire class.

I'm not calling anybody a liar. I just say, be careful of everything you read on the internet.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@smpbound ... That what people have been saying on SDN, but it might not be that hard to fail seeing all the minutia stuff they want you to know...

 

[operaman]

Actually, if they let him repeat, they are LOSING money because now there is 1 less student in the second year class but still the same number in the first year class. Repeated years are money-losers for schools.

To me it sounds like the school bent over backward for this guy. He failed. He failed remediation. He was dismissed. He appealed. They accepted his appeal and allowed him readmission to repeat his first year. He turned it down. This sounds like the remediation/repeat policy at most med schools and the school followed it to the letter. I don't know what your friend was expecting.

 

[Promethean]

Truly wish to know what school your friend had these issues with. Wondering if there were any other similarities among the others who failed.

Sorry to hear of all your friends troubles. Will he seek readmission elsewhere, or change his career plan?

 

[hallowmann]

Actually, if they let him repeat, they are LOSING money because now there is 1 less student in the second year class but still the same number in the first year class. Repeated years are money-losers for schools.

To me it sounds like the school bent over backward for this guy. He failed. He failed remediation. He was dismissed. He appealed. They accepted his appeal and allowed him readmission to repeat his first year. He turned it down. This sounds like the remediation/repeat policy at most med schools and the school followed it to the letter. I don't know what your friend was expecting.

Yeah, actually, if you fail remediation at my school you usually repeat the year. You could be dismissed, but for first years, failing remediation means repeating the year.

The only bad thing about that (besides having to start over and being a year late - but really there really aren't any better options) is that they'd have to get more loans for the repeated year.

 

[still in school]

I'm curious on which school this is as well.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

The only bad thing about that (besides having to start over and being a year late - but really there really aren't any better options) is that they'd have to get private loans for the repeated year.

No, they wouldn't.

 

[hallowmann]

No, they wouldn't.

I guess they can still get more federal loans, haha, whoops. I'll fix that.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

I guess they can still get more federal loans, haha, whoops. I'll fix that.

And at some schools, they will not be charged twice for the same year.

 

[shibby1111]

Naw they go to MD school. Lighter class load =Easier and still get to be a medical doctor.

He's always butting in with DB comments.

 

[IlDestriero]

It sounds like your "friend" made a colossal mistake.
He failed a class, by 0.1% or 20% it doesn't matter. He didn't learn the material to their satisfaction and failed. He was appropriately given a chance to retest. He failed again. At that point they dismissed him, which is probably standard procedure as failing a class is a big red flag. If you can't pass a class that you just restudied for, how are you going to pass the USMLE?
Then, he meets with the board and convinces them that he is trainable, he does deserve a second chance, etc. He should be thanking the gods, sacrificing virgins, and doing Pharrel's Happy dance. He got his 3rd chance. Why in the world would he EVER turn it down? That is just stupid. Presumably he wants to be a physician, so his actions are completely inconsistent with that goal.
What would an attorney do for you? Get you back into school to repeat the year? He already declined it. Can he go on to second year? Of course not, he failed the freaking class.
This is a bizarre thread.
Life throws speed bumps and road blocks at you all the time, this could have been a bump in the road disappearing in your rear view mirror already, but you decided to throw your future career away. Strange choice.

 

[jakeislove]

He probably shouldn't have turned down the chance to repeat.

Everyone can't handle medical school with a family.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

He's always butting in with DB comments.

who?

 

[hallowmann]

And at some schools, they will not be charged twice for the same year.

This is very school dependant, and most schools don't have this policy. They may have a reduced tuition, but most still charge for an extra year. The fact that OP suspects his school would fail him and make him repeat for financial gain implies that he would have to pay extra tuition.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

This is very school dependant, and most schools don't have this policy. They may have a reduced tuition, but most still charge for an extra year. The fact that OP suspects his school would fail him and make him repeat for financial gain implies that he would have to pay extra tuition.

Which would be why I said "SOME" and not all. Also, unless you've polled every school, you have no way of knowing what "most" schools do. If I had to take a guess, I'd guess that most schools would not charge for repeating the year.

 

[Nephronlearner]

Legal action against who/what?! What would be the expected outcome?

How could possibly any lawyer get him into 2nd year? He failed a class (and the resit). I believe at a lot of schools that would be a dismissal right there and then. So I really don't get it... they can't just disregard the failed class ("yup, this guy hasn't learnt physio... but that's okay; he knows enough anatomy so it's all cool" - no, it isn't)

The next best thing is repeating the first year - something he got the offer for even without any legal action. And turned down. Why? lol what did he expect? To be promoted to second year despite not passing a class or did he expect another exam session organised just for him?!

Judging by all you have written... maybe he just wants the lawyer to get travel reimbursement?! lol

Seriously, if he wants to be a doctor; the best thing he can do is literally beg the dean to let him in again...

 

[MrChance2]

I agree the policy is pretty brutal. I understand where you are coming from in that. I don't think someone who fails one class by <1% would be any worse of a doctor than someone who passes it by 1%.

Most people I know that are forced to leave school blame the administration, I think partly it is a defense mechanism and I think partly the rules are often imperfect. Medical school however is not the time to start a fight. Even if you somehow win I can't imagine any residency wanting someone who sued their medical school. Honestly, it is best to focus on doing well and not the administrative side of things.

Why would they give a remediation exam and fail everyone? Who knows, I think a lot of times they have "weeder" classes. I think that is less hard on people's GPA in general. If it was micro that will be the basis for a lot of further coursework and they probably want to be sure you are ready.

Was it just about the money? Doubtful, perhaps it played a part.

Am I looking too far into this? Yes, definitely

Any advice? Repeat M1 or pursue something else. Don't burn any bridges. You can get loans forgiven with 10 years of underserved work if you want to stay in the field. I think many medical students have the attitude of "If I don't become a Doctor my life will be miserable" when really there are so many other options. You have a long life ahead of you and a lot of options. Just being smart enough to get into medical school means you are so much above average in terms of doors that are open for you. If you want to stay in as an M1 then make peace with the dean and administration. People that don't get along with the people in power have a way of leaving an institution whether it be medical school, residency, or a hospital. Sometimes those in power are right and sometimes wrong, but either way at least until you finish residency and open your own practice your virtually sole task regarding administrators is to get them to like you.

Could any legal action be taken? My understanding is no, and that seems to be the consensus on SDN, again even if you would somehow win I think it would be difficult to find a residency.

or is this just a case of poor management on the school's part? It is entirely possible, but this isn't your place as a student to fix.

Is that even legal? Yes, they aren't required to give you an appeal. If you bring legal council they can just say they decided to not give you an appeal.

Or can private schools really set rules like this, blow them off, and get away with it? I don't think they broke any of their rules. Perhaps meeting with a 3 person council 72 hours after but professors are busy and they probably just informally talked and said they'll let you repeat M1. From what I've heard these appeals committees virtually never reverse decisions. I understand it is frustrating because you were so close and you are pretty powerless but that is how medical student training can be.

Either way things will be OK. I know it may not seem like it now but these are all hurdles in the greater scheme of things.

 

[Goro]

This is a fascinating thread. I agree 100% with my learned colleagues that your friend merited dismissal. Your friend went through the experience common to a good number of my failing students: they barely scrape by, or fail, then pass remediation, then fail some more and pass another remediation, then fail COMLEX and they're out of a career and >$100K in debt.

The school was actually doing your friend a favor. He was at HIGH risk for failing COMLEX. As long as the school has specific policies, they did nothing wrong, certainly nothing arbitrary or capricious.

The fact that there were several failures in one course is irrelevant. Some courses are simply harder than others.

Exams are not for learning or teaching aids; they're for assessment. My school has the same policy, you may not look at your exams after the review sessions. Your friend should have been aware of his deficits and been constantly his professors' offices getting help. I'll bet he wasn't doing that.

At my school, the student would have most probably repeated the year. Only multiple failures earn a dismissal. Just like when I dealing with my 11 year old, I'll bet there's more to this story than OP is letting on. Consider that he wrote: "The first time he took the class...,"

New schools are loath to lose tuition money (it's expensive to start a medical school) so it's their interest to keep bodies in, not out.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

The school was actually doing your friend a favor. He was at HIGH risk for failing COMLEX. As long as the school has specific policies, they did nothing wrong, certainly nothing arbitrary or capricious.

At high risk of failing COMLEX because he failed one class and then failed the remediation of that one class? I'd argue that if the class he failed was something like biochemistry, it means absolutely nothing about his ability to take and pass COMLEX.

 

[Goro]

No, because he's likely at the very bottom of his Class. Again, I suspect there's more going on here than OP let on.

At high risk of failing COMLEX because he failed one class and then failed the remediation of that one class? I'd argue that if the class he failed was something like biochemistry, it means absolutely nothing about his ability to take and pass COMLEX.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

No, because he's likely at the very bottom of his Class. Again, I suspect there's more going on here than OP let on.

Plenty of people at the bottom of their class pass COMLEX. I don't know if there's more going on or not, but going strictly on what we're told, I wouldn't say the OP is a high risk for failing COMLEX. Most people pass COMLEX, even those who skate through in the bottom 10% of their class.

 

[Goro]

Pay attention Liz, you're not a faculty member, I am. I have to deal with these students daily.

At my school, being at the bottom of the class (meaning the bottom 5-10 people) is a 50% marker for failing COMLEX. That is NOT acceptable, and it's better to jettison these people early before they accrue two year's worth of debt.

In addition, those people people who have multiple COMLEX failures, and who then have to be dismissed because of that, also come from the very bottom of the class.

Again, it's highly unusual for a student to be dismissed after failing remediation...at my school, that typically leads to having to repeat a year. Dismissals come after multiple failures. OP's post hinted at that.

Plenty of people at the bottom of their class pass COMLEX. I don't know if there's more going on or not, but going strictly on what we're told, I wouldn't say the OP is a high risk for failing COMLEX. Most people pass COMLEX, even those who skate through in the bottom 10% of their class.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Pay attention Liz, you're not a faculty member, I am. I have to deal with these students daily

Pay attention, Goro. Being a faculty member doesn't mean you're right 100% of the time in 100% of discussions and no one else is allowed to have an opinion. My opinion is that you're making too many assumptions about the OP and basing even more assumptions on your assumptions.

At my school, being at the bottom of the class (meaning the bottom 5-10 people) is a 50% marker for failing COMLEX

You have absolutely no way of knowing if this poster is in the bottom 5 or 10 people in his/her class. None whatsoever.

That is NOT acceptable, and it's better to jettison these people early before they accrue two year's worth of debt

Maybe I disagree because of how much I despise such paternalistic attitudes. "Let's dismiss him and never give him a chance to even take the COMLEX because it's for his own good". That's bull.

Again, it's highly unusual for a student to be dismissed after failing remediation...at my school, that typically leads to having to repeat a year. Dismissals come after multiple failures. OP's post hinted at that.

No, it's highly unusual at YOUR school. At some schools, there's no such thing as repeating a year. The poster never said he failed multiple classes. That's an assumption.

 

[IlDestriero]

You have absolutely no way of knowing if this poster is in the bottom 5 or 10 people in his/her class. None whatsoever.



Maybe I disagree because of how much I despise such paternalistic attitudes. "Let's dismiss him and never give him a chance to even take the COMLEX because it's for his own good". That's bull.

Failing a class and failing remediation and a retest after studying for the summer is good evidence he ain't anywhere near the top of the class, that's for damned sure. If he's not near the bottom, who do you think is? You take like 6 classes a year, one F decimates your GPA and rank.
They dismissed him, and others like him because they expect him to fail and failing your licensing exam is not an option. You don't want people going through your program that are likely to fail. That's one reason that we use the residency in service exam scores to weed applicants to fellowship. We don't want to inherit someone else's failure and then have to find them a job when they can't pass their board exam. Not everyone can do what they want to do. Such is life.

 

[user3]

I just created an account to post this. This past year, my 'friend' enrolled as an M1 at a new DO school. He like many struggled through some of his classes, but ultimately passed all but one in the spring. He was given the option to remediate this class during summer. The first time he took the class, he was told he missed the passing cut off by one point, so out of a sum of 600 points, he failed by 1 point (not an actual percentage point if that makes sense). When he asked to see his previous exams and go over them with one of the deans, he was denied the right to do so, stating no one was allowed to see the exams after the review sessions. He studied all summer and took the remediation exam. He was supposed to receive notification of his grade within a day, but instead he had to wait three days.
When the dean finally called him, he was told he failed by 3 points. He was completely shocked, as his best friend is in an MD school, and he had access to all of his old quizzes and tests to study by, and had done wonderful on the practice exams. He asked what he was supposed to do now, and the dean of students told him he would have to meet with the SPC as he had done previously and await their decision.

He met with them. and believed his meeting went well, and that they all told him they believed in him and thought he deserved another chance. The dean of students emailed him, telling him to report to school for a meeting within 36 hours. He explained how he had left his car at school after his exam and flown back to see his family (13 hours away), and didn't even have a car to get back that quickly, especially since classes were to start for M2 in 6 days, and he still had to pack and load his family and drive them down (he has a small child). The dean said if he didn't come it would mean immediate dismissal. so having no choice, he rented a car and made the drive overnight to meet with the dean, who point blank told him as soon as the meeting began he was being dismissed, and handed him paper work to fill out if he wished to submit an appeal.

Here's where things get really strange. The dean told him, as stated in the hand book, that he had 72 hours to submit an appeal, and that the school had 72 hours from the time of that meeting to form a 3 person committee to meet with him. The dean said to not leave town, and keep his phone on him at all times. So for three days he waited, called, and emailed, asking what was going on. and still heard nothing back. ( all the while his wife is back home, working full time, and had to find someone to watch their child). on the fourth day, the dean of students emailed him, said there would be NO meeting with the 3 person committee, and that he was being offered a spot for readmission into the next year's M1 class, which by this point in time was supposed to start within 24 hours.

After talking with his family, he decided to not accept this offer, and began packing up his house to return to his family. A week later....

It comes out at school that this exact same situation had happened to six other students. But ONLY students taking this particular course. Every other course that people failed, they passed their remediation exams. So it just seemed like to me, it was 'almost' rigged. Why would they give a remediation exam and fail everyone? and offer them admission in the next years class? Was it just about the money? Am I looking too far into this? It just seems like a very very odd situation, especially since all other courses were remediated 100 percent successfully. Any advice? Could any legal action be taken? or is this just a case of poor management on the school's part? They for sure violated the 72 hour window of time. Their handbook also says you are allowed no legal counsel during the SPC meetings, or the meetings with the dean, nor can they recorded or taped. Is that even legal? Or can private schools really set rules like this, blow them off, and get away with it? Any advice is truly appreciated. thank you to all who read the entire thing.

how does this happen?

although it probably would not have changed the outcome, I find it troubling that the school didn't seem to be fully following its supposed procedures (your third paragraph).

I am very curious as to which school this is. I remember a thread last year about Campbell dismissing a student after flunking the first block of exams or something, with no remediation or anything.

 

[Makati2008]

Pay attention, Goro. Being a faculty member doesn't mean you're right 100% of the time in 100% of discussions and no one else is allowed to have an opinion. My opinion is that you're making too many assumptions about the OP and basing even more assumptions on your assumptions.



You have absolutely no way of knowing if this poster is in the bottom 5 or 10 people in his/her class. None whatsoever.



Maybe I disagree because of how much I despise such paternalistic attitudes. "Let's dismiss him and never give him a chance to even take the COMLEX because it's for his own good". That's bull.



No, it's highly unusual at YOUR school. At some schools, there's no such thing as repeating a year. The poster never said he failed multiple classes. That's an assumption.

Hmmm so you argue with law2doc in a different thread on areas he has more experience then you, now Goro in a field that he deals with intimately on a daily basis. What's your issue???

 

[TheFuture_22]

how does this happen?

although it probably would not have changed the outcome, I find it troubling that the school didn't seem to be fully following its supposed procedures (your third paragraph).

I am very curious as to which school this is. I remember a thread last year about Campbell dismissing a student after flunking the first block of exams or something, with no remediation or anything.

Based on the description, it is not Campbell. We did not have six people fail any remediation exam. In fact, we lost less than six people the entire first year let alone one block. The student you mentioned that was dismissed first block was the only one that was not offered a seat in the next class. It was a unique situation because she was habitually late to class and failed multiple classes the first block at the point to where they couldn't remediate her in one weeks time (between blocks).

 

[razor]

how does this happen?

although it probably would not have changed the outcome, I find it troubling that the school didn't seem to be fully following its supposed procedures (your third paragraph).

I am very curious as to which school this is. I remember a thread last year about Campbell dismissing a student after flunking the first block of exams or something, with no remediation or anything.

This made me chuckle because in your quote you bolded, "He studied all summer for the remediation exam" and then you said, "How does this happen?" I thought the same thing, then I realized we weren't talking about the same thing. I thought: How can you study all summer for a class that you've already had once and still fail? Every school is probably quite a bit different, but at my school the tests just aren't that hard. I'm being dead serious here and I've talked to some classmates that agree. Usually about 60% of the exam is "do you have a clue what's going on?," 20% is "are you really understanding the general, over-arching ideas," and the other 20 is "do you like memorizing gene loci and obscure eponyms."

The point I want to bring up is when my school has a 8% first timer's fail rate on level 1, that means those fringe students in preclinical courses (barely failed or barely passing) are presumably that 8%.

Edit: Note that the astounding amount of material we cover is difficult. I just have to emphasize that the difficulty of exams does not reflect the difficulty of the material presented.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Hmmm so you argue with law2doc in a different thread on areas he has more experience then you, now Goro in a field that he deals with intimately on a daily basis. What's your issue???

This is a message board. I state my opinions and others disagree. My issue is people, like yourself, who believe that opinions should be restricted to only those who work in the daily grind of the topic -- such as Goro and school failure. THAT'S my issue. Just because my opinion doesn't match theirs, it doesn't mean I shouldn't post it.

And FYI, while Goro is an expert at his school, it's clear he's speaking on behalf of just his school as some of the policies he states aren't universal (like repeating the year or not being dismissed after failing remediation). So while he is an expert at how things function there, I don't think it's out of line to state how things work at other schools nor do I think it's out of line to state that we don't know all the facts about the OP and we're arguing based on assumptions.