Does amount of research done in med school affect potential residency placements?

[779663]

I'm trying to decide on a school and right now my biggest thing is keeping my options open. I think I know what I want to do, but compared to how much I will know about medicine by the time I apply for residency, right now I'm basically clueless.

I hear that at some DO schools there are very few research options for students. I'm not interested in becoming much of a research physician in my professional career, but if doing research will help out a future residency application or if a lack of research will negatively impact my residency app, then I'll gladly do a bunch of research during med school.

Is this something I'll have to worry about? What if I wish to do an MD residency, will a lack of research hurt me then?

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[SlugMD]

Don't worry about it but just be prepared to seek research opportunities outside your school. If possible go to a school with nearby MD's to make the search a bit easier. Not many DO students do research, not because they cannot but because they don't look for them. This might be hard to believe but most medical students (MD and DO) do not care to participate in research. Find a niche you are interested in and show passion when contacting schools/programs/physicians.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

In short, yes. But that depends on what field you are aiming for and what type of programs in any field. Finding research at DO programs can be difficult as the opportunities aren't quite as obvious as they are at MD programs.

It's also about quality instead of just quantity.

 

[68PGunner]

I'm trying to decide on a school and right now my biggest thing is keeping my options open. I think I know what I want to do, but compared to how much I will know about medicine by the time I apply for residency, right now I'm basically clueless.

I hear that at some DO schools there are very few research options for students. I'm not interested in becoming much of a research physician in my professional career, but if doing research will help out a future residency application or if a lack of research will negatively impact my residency app, then I'll gladly do a bunch of research during med school.

Is this something I'll have to worry about? What if I wish to do an MD residency, will a lack of research hurt me then?

If you want to be successful at the matching process, you need at least 2-3 published papers by 4th year. The key is to be well rounded.

 

[Skynnyrd]

If you are talking about clinical research, the vast majority of D.O schools will be lacking. This is because AOA residencies didn't have a research requirement for residents or attending. Now that residency programs are becoming ACGME accredited there will slowly become more and more opportunities. As far as bench-top research OSU-CHS has some really good opportunities compared to other D.O schools. We have several phd candidates and PIs who do some pretty interesting stuff, especially in the field of neuroscience.

 

[Goro]

Let's amend this to: "If you want to be successful at the matching process at very competitive specialty programs...."

If you want to be successful at the matching process, you need at least 2-3 published papers by 4th year. The key is to be well rounded.

 

[68PGunner]

Let's amend this to: "If you want to be successful at the matching process at very competitive specialty programs...."

Well, nobody is going to know what's competitive and not competitive in 3 years for me. However I want to do my residency in a desirable location and not a dump in the middle of nowhere. Therefore, I am going to put in the best application possible for my desired specialty.

 

[Skynnyrd]

Well, nobody is going to know what's competitive and not competitive in 3 years for me. However I want to do my residency in a desirable location and not a dump in the middle of nowhere. Therefore, I am going to put in the best application possible for my desired specialty.

 

[mcloaf]

Well, nobody is going to know what's competitive and not competitive in 3 years for me. However I want to do my residency in a desirable location and not a dump in the middle of nowhere. Therefore, I am going to put in the best application possible for my desired specialty.

That's all fine, but it's still patently untrue to state that you need multiple published manuscripts to match successfully.

 

[hnorc]

Sorry I'm definitely naive here but I have literally zero interest in research. Do med students have to have solid research experience to get a good residency?


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[68PGunner]

No research experience is going to hurt you considering that the majority of ACGME residencies will require you to do some research at some point in order to graduate from your training site. Nobody is going to hold your hands when it comes to research during residency. You better have the skills required to hit your residency running.

I was advised by multiple people at my school to get 2-3 research papers published by the time I apply for residency in order to decide on my specialty and place of training. I'm not gunning for Derm, ENT, or Ortho here. Personally, it's better to be safe and put your best foot forward than be sorry.

 

[SurgDoc95]

A lot of you guys seem to be very hard yes or hard no, but the bottom line is it really depends on what you want to do and where you'd like to do it. If you score a 240 on your step one and want to do FM you can pick where you'd like to do it without having any research experience, but score a 210 then yeah might want some. Being a DO means your hand isn't held and nothing is going to be given to you to the extend MDs are given things just based on the letters after their name (it's isn't that much but it is some). Want to be a pcp and don't care where? Pass your boards enjoy your rotations and don't worry about research unless it interests you.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

It is not that difficult you be surprised how many clinics around your area needs students but they don't widely advertised it. Mine is a public DO school and research is eh, but the clinics around or thirsty for students


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[Peach Newport]

How on earth do you "make sure to get 3-4 published papers?"

Most research projects don't get publishable results. I have 2 years of research experience under 2 PIs with no publishable data. How can you possibly "make sure you get published?"

Also, I assume you have to make straight As in preclinical years while doing research, right? The only time I can see myself doing research is in OMS1 summer... So if I'm really lucky I'll get one paper published. How else am I supposed to do it?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

How on earth do you "make sure to get 3-4 published papers?"

Most research projects don't get publishable results. I have 2 years of research experience under 2 PIs with no publishable data. How can you possibly "make sure you get published?"

Also, I assume you have to make straight As in preclinical years while doing research, right? The only time I can see myself doing research is in OMS1 summer... So if I'm really lucky I'll get one paper published. How else am I supposed to do it?

Clinical research more reliably yields pubs.

 

[WorldChanger36]

No research experience is going to hurt you considering that the majority of ACGME residencies will require you to do some research at some point in order to graduate from your training site. Nobody is going to hold your hands when it comes to research during residency. You better have the skills required to hit your residency running.

I was advised by multiple people at my school to get 2-3 research papers published by the time I apply for residency in order to decide on my specialty and place of training. I'm not gunning for Derm, ENT, or Ortho here. Personally, it's better to be safe and put your best foot forward than be sorry.

I am just smh so hard right now. You are forgetting the most important resource in med school... Time. Research as a DO student wastes time and does very very little to boost your chances of scoring that dream residency.

It seems to be lost on people that a residency is a JOB. Its work but instead of flipping burgers you flip patients. They ( PDs) want people that have a brain, can learn, suck less, get the work done and are generally pleasant to work with. They do this with board scores, audition rotations, letters of rec, and interviews.

The purpose of research is to learn and if you enjoy the research thats awesome but having it is going to have very very little effect on getting you that number one match and not having it is never going to be the reason you dont match.

If you are interested in research go for it, but dont do it to fluff your CV, use that time to get a better board score or go on vacation and enjoy your life....


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[AnatomyGrey12]

Research as a DO student wastes time and does very very little to boost your chances of scoring that dream residency.

This isn't true...

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

I am just smh so hard right now. You are forgetting the most important resource in med school... Time. Research as a DO student wastes time and does very very little to boost your chances of scoring that dream residency.

It seems to be lost on people that a residency is a JOB. Its work but instead of flipping burgers you flip patients. They ( PDs) want people that have a brain, can learn, suck less, get the work done and are generally pleasant to work with. They do this with board scores, audition rotations, letters of rec, and interviews.

The purpose of research is to learn and if you enjoy the research thats awesome but having it is going to have very very little effect on getting you that number one match and not having it is never going to be the reason you dont match.

If you are interested in research go for it, but dont do it to fluff your CV, use that time to get a better board score or go on vacation and enjoy your life....


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Research heavy schools love that you have the fluff under your belt


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[WorldChanger36]

Research heavy schools love that you have the fluff under your belt


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I am sure they do. They dont however like DOs.


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[SurgDoc95]

I am sure they do. They dont however like DOs.


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Is there historically a drop off in quality between DO and MD residents that had caused this? I've always wondered the actual why to the bias.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Is there historically a drop off in quality between DO and MD residents that had caused this? I've always wondered the actual why to the bias.

Actually the quality level of training for DOs has gotten higher versus the past several decades. Remember the discussion about preceptor versus residency team training. MD school are able to supply both inpatient residency team based training and outpatient preceptor based train. However, many DO schools mostly provide preceptor based training and this could be in doctor's offices, clinics, and to some degree hospitals. You want to have the closest experience to being in a residency team possible and this is only done through training in hospitals with residents. Program directors of MD residencies see this difference when DO students do audition rotations at their hospitals. This is what hurts DOs, when they don't have the adequate training to keep up with the residents.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I am sure they do. They dont however like DOs.


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If you get to the interview stage and you have research, they will like the letters DO even more.

 

[IslandStyle808]

How on earth do you "make sure to get 3-4 published papers?"

Most research projects don't get publishable results. I have 2 years of research experience under 2 PIs with no publishable data. How can you possibly "make sure you get published?"

Also, I assume you have to make straight As in preclinical years while doing research, right? The only time I can see myself doing research is in OMS1 summer... So if I'm really lucky I'll get one paper published. How else am I supposed to do it?

Review articles...

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

I am sure they do. They dont however like DOs.


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Considering the merger and the squeezing out of IMGs things are evening up a little bit more. Doing the extra as opposed to not doing it like some Mds shows PIs you are competent


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[SurgDoc95]

Actually the quality level of training for DOs has gotten higher versus the past several decades. Remember the discussion about preceptor versus residency team training. MD school are able to supply both inpatient residency team based training and outpatient preceptor based train. However, many DO schools mostly provide preceptor based training and this could be in doctor's offices, clinics, and to some degree hospitals. You want to have the closest experience to being in a residency team possible and this is only done through training in hospitals with residents. Program directors of MD residencies see this difference when DO students do audition rotations at their hospitals. This is what hurts DOs, when they don't have the adequate training to keep up with the residents.

If this is the case why aren't DO programs doing everything possible to make their rotations in the wards based model? Is it lack of resources mostly or just an disinterest in change?

 

[IslandStyle808]

If this is the case why aren't DO programs doing everything possible to make their rotations in the wards based model? Is it lack of resources mostly or just an disinterest in change?

Because of $$$. They try to get the maximum amount of students they can and don't think about how to accommodate that amount of students. Some schools don't want to pony up the money to pay for those rotations either. So they try to find which ever doctor is available to take these students. These doctors are not payed or offered any academic benefits either, it is a volunteer job for the good of all DOs.

 

[Peach Newport]

Aren't there actually very few DO schools that only do preceptor-based rotations?

As far as I know, pretty much all of them incorporate both wards and preceptors. There are one or two super rural schools that are primarily preceptor based, but they pretty much all have hospital affiliates that most students use...

 

[SurgDoc95]

Do either of you know if KCU has a mixed rotation system?

 

[WorldChanger36]

Aren't there actually very few DO schools that only do preceptor-based rotations?

As far as I know, pretty much all of them incorporate both wards and preceptors. There are one or two super rural schools that are primarily preceptor based, but they pretty much all have hospital affiliates that most students use...

Yes many DO schools have some kind of hospital based rotation in small community based hospitals. Volume is the difference at these places and the hospital is not primed for teaching and normally you still only have one to two preceptors. Keep in mind you can only learn about what you are exposed to and the bigger the volume the more likely you are to see different pathology and patient types.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

Do either of you know if KCU has a mixed rotation system?

Yeah it's mixed. If you go to their website they actually have a list of all their rotations and the breakdown of inpatient vs. outpatient at that site, as well as any residency programs at that site. It's interesting to peruse.