Doubts about medical school and my future.

[simplymichele]

Hey I'm new to this forum. Currently, I am an ungrad Biology major. This is my junior year. My overall GPA is a 3.0, and i don't know my science . I am involved in many other activities, internships, shadowing, organizations, and tons of volunteer work aside from academics.

My dream is to go to medical school. Today, I just feel so discouraged about my future. And normally I am quite confident. I am starting intense MCAT tutoring March 1, in hopes of taking my test in June, and start applying in the summer so I can attend medical school the fall after graduation (MAY 2016). I wanted to insure I would receive the BEST score I possibly could. And trust me this tutor isn't cheap, and she has very good credentials, and many years of tutoring under her belt, as well as a phenomenal success rate.

I have taken many strides these past years into molding myself to being a great candidate for medical school, but today I just feel defeated. As if, I am living a dream. What do you think? Do I have a chance? Am I living in a dream world or will I be okay, and I am just having a bad day?

Is this normal?

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[baxt1412]

Maybe you should see a career counselor or even a psychologist/counselor/etc to talk about your goals, etc. Are you pre-med or pre-dental? You have both listed and I'm confused.


It sounds like you don't have a real concrete reason for going into medicine, yet you are doing all the box checking that a pre-med needs to do, which would understandably making anyone feel down if they saw no worth in it.

Right now, I would call off the MCAT tutoring and do some soul searching. A gap year or two (or three) will not kill anything. You will need some serious GPA work if after all of that you decide medicine is still right for you.

 

[simplymichele]

I never said I didn't have a reason. I just didn't list it here. And I never said I see no worth in it. I actually said it was my dream. I'm pre-med, I listed Pre-Dent because my current internship is with a dentist, and I realized how much I like that field as well especially the surgery aspect. But Pre-Med is still in my heart. Thanks anyways.

 

[simplymichele]

.

 

[brootas14]

I think you have to take a step back here, for many of the same reasons that you want to go into this field.

Your GPA isn't on the level where it would be competitive in applying this round, particularly since you're not sure of your sGPA. At the very least (and I encourage you to take it one step at a time), you need to finish your junior and perhaps your senior year before evaluating where your grades are at. Right now you'd have a tough time of it (take a look at the pinned post in "What Are My Chances" to see what I'm talking about).

I applaud you for working with a coach for the MCAT, but three months is not nearly enough time, especially when you're also taking classes. That's too rushed for anyone, but you're also dealing with GPA, classes, and from the sound of things, an emotional rut of sorts. I would recommend at least twice that amount of time, ideally more, or waiting until you can devote more of your time (after graduation). This is a clear case where better pacing will pay off, and you won't end up with a lackluster app.

Medical school applications can be a crushing process if you're not prepared.

 

[baxt1412]

I never said I didn't have a reason. I just didn't list it here. And I never said I see no worth in it. I actually said it was my dream. I'm pre-med, I listed Pre-Dent because my current internship is with a dentist, and I realized how much I like that field as well especially the surgery aspect. But Pre-Med is still in my heart. Thanks anyways.

well, is that reason a good enough reason for you to go through all of these hardships? if so, then I still suggest seeing someone who can help with your mental health. your well-being is much more important than following the traditional pre-med timeline.

as of right now, a 3.0cGPA will not likely get you in anywhere IMO. That is not to say that you couldn't finish out with a strong upward trend and/or do an SMP and nail it and apply MD

or official/unofficial post-back and apply DO.

 

[Mad Jack]

If you're URM, you can get in if you can get your cGPA and sGPA above 3.3 and your MCAT over the 60th percentile. Just work hard and you stand a chance. You're going to be out of commission for this cycle though, your stats are just too low. A gap year is inevitable at this point.

 

[jagster92]

I would have to agree that the 3.0 GPA will be difficult to overcome. If this was because of a few bad classes, you could use the grade replacement on the DO applications and retake the ones you struggled in which could boost your GPA a bit. I would say at this point though putting a lot of money toward an expensive MCAT regimen won't do much good. If still thinking MD, your best bet would be to do an SMP that has a strong tie with entrance into the associated medical school. Please don't go the Caribbean route just to say you will be going to MD school though - DO would be much stronger choice than that.

 

[simplymichele]

Okay, and if I score well? you don't think this can help?

 

[Mad Jack]

Okay, and if I score well? you don't think this can help?

No. A 3.0 is a death sentence in regard to MD and DO admissions, regardless of MCAT score.

 

[simplymichele]

@Mad Jack I guess.

Well, thank you for your opinions! This will be taken into consideration.

 

[baxt1412]

No. A 3.0 is a death sentence in regard to MD and DO admissions, regardless of MCAT score.

this. unfortunately a real human will probably not even end up looking at your app, OP, as you will probably be auto-screened out of the applicant pool.

 

[ski89]

I never said I didn't have a reason. I just didn't list it here. And I never said I see no worth in it. I actually said it was my dream. I'm pre-med, I listed Pre-Dent because my current internship is with a dentist, and I realized how much I like that field as well especially the surgery aspect. But Pre-Med is still in my heart. Thanks anyways.

A few things.
1. Don't take classes while studying for the MCAT. Sure people have done it and been successful but that is the exception. Take it this summer and prepare as best you can.

2. Yes a 3.0 is on the low side, but you have what, 3 semesters to improve? Consider even adding a minor and take an extra year to graduate, that's a possible 5 semesters of straight As (and if you need study help to achieve that, just search this forum, thee are lots of threads about more effective study techniques). I could see you raising that GPA to 3.4 or even 3.5 by the time you apply.

3. Are you African american? Looks like it if that's you in the photo. If so that is great news for your chance of acceptance. Even better if you can show that you are committed to serving affrican American communities as a physician.

You have every opportunity to achieve this if its your dream. If you want it, go get it!

 

[Mad Jack]

this. unfortunately a real human will probably not even end up looking at your app, OP, as you will probably be auto-screened out of the applicant pool.

Exactly. If she gets to a 3.3 she can beat the screen at some of the lower ranked and URM-friendly schools (could probably even swing a 3.2 at a couple of those). But you'd better get to working hard, because your time is short. Grades should be your number one priority right now, as you can easily retake the MCAT, but it'll take you a year or more to dig out from under poor college performance.

 

[simplymichele]

Exactly. If she gets to a 3.3 she an beat the screen at some of the lower ranked and URM-friendly schools (could probably even swing a 3.2 at a couple of those). But you'd better get to working hard, because your time is short. Grades should be your number one priority right now, as you can easily retake the MCAT, but it'll take you a year or more to dig out from under poor college performance.

My undergrad is not poor performance. My GPA is very average for college students in America right now. Average GPA for college students as a biology major, I agree with you is on the low side. But by you judging my performance as poor undergrad, is incorrect. I understand your point. And I do not disagree with you, Nor do I agree but don't pour out things that aren't correct especially when you don't the credentials to say do. If everyone in the world thought like you every time after failure, the world would never evolve from injustice, war, and devastation. There would also be a lot less motivated people in the world. Lol

Like I said. Thank you for your opinions it will be taken seriously. I am very glad I came on here to share my concerns, this has really helped me !

 

[MrLogan13]

It's not impossible, and you do have a chance, even if it's small. However, it would behoove you to maybe take a year or two to work on improving your GPA to improve you chances and strengthen your application.

Please take a look at this chart that will show you acceptance statistics by GPA and MCAT score (data is from 2012-2014) to get an idea of what you may need to do to be more competitive.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstable24.pdf

 

[baxt1412]

you may not have done poorly for an average undergrad student, but your grades are indicative of something that essentially the entire medical community would call poor for a pre-med student and seriously hinder your probability of being accepted at a medical school.


you either need a reality check or you're a troll.



**edit**
finding stats pertinent to your race may be a better predictor than table 24

 

[simplymichele]

@bazt1412

I'm neither of those things, I'm just saying there was no need for him to say that my undergrad was poor performance.

 

[baxt1412]

You came asking for our opinions and help. I can tell you that Mad Jack is well-respected around here.

In general, your GPA is poor for pre-med. period. just statistically speaking you are more likely to not get into medical school with your current GPA than you are to get in.

 

[simplymichele]

And that's okay to say that. I agree. But to say make it seem as if my entire undergrad is trash was rude .
I did come for help not to be insulted. I got the advice I needed though. Thanks

 

[aprimenumber]

And that's okay to say that. I agree. But to say make it seem as if my entire undergrad is trash was rude .
I did come for help not to be insulted. I got the advice I needed though. Thanks

I don't see how anyone insulted you. A 3.0 GPA is by no means a solid GPA, especially considering rampant grade inflation across the country. Your undergrad performance is poor for someone who wishes to seek further advanced post-bachelor's education. With regards towards your application, your GPA is one of your biggest weaknesses.

With regards towards advice, there's only one thing that I would add that hasn't already been said. Don't take a fifth year of undergrad. Someone else mentioned it earlier, and I disagree with it, because a fifth year of undergrad will be much more expensive than if you graduated and took a post-bacc afterwards.

 

[JW2020]

Mad Jack wasn't trying to be insulting, he was trying to convey what your undergrad GPA looks like to an admissions committee. I graduated with a 3.0 also, and I wasn't planning on going into medicine at the time. I didn't consider my undergrad GPA "trash" either but realized if I wanted to get into medical school I'd have to raise it. I did an unofficial post-bacc while working and got a 3.9 in the science pre-reqs, but my cumulative GPA still only went up to a 3.2 on the AMCAS/AACOMAS. I've been lucky enough to be accepted this cycle at a well respected DO school, but that has also been my ONLY interview, despite very strong LORs and ECs, first author publishings, life experience, etc. I know/suspect that my 3.2 cumulative has screened me out of many of the schools I applied to. That's just the way it works. If you are passionate about this then I'm sure you will do what it takes to get in, but that will entail raising your GPA significantly and scoring reasonably well on the new MCAT.

 

[MrLogan13]

Yes, I don't think anyone intended to insult you. The other posters are only trying to convey that a 3.0 is poor in terms of medical school admissions, so there's a lot of work that needs to be done to make sure you are a more competitive applicant.

Best of luck in your pursuit of medicine.

 

[candbgirl]

Your undergrad performance is poor for a premed student. Spin it any way you want but a 3.0 is not competitive at MD or DO schools. What is your sGPA? I know you said you don't knowbut you must have some idea. As things stand now you will probably be auto screened at most MD schools and many DO schools. Go read threads of people with 3.6+ GPAs and 33+ MCAT scores that are rejected. Whether you want to hear it or not you have serious grade repair ahead of you. Postpone the MCAT tutoring until you have a realistic plan in place.

 

[Mad Jack]

My undergrad is not poor performance. My GPA is very average for college students in America right now. Average GPA for college students as a biology major, I agree with you is on the low side. But by you judging my performance as poor undergrad, is incorrect. I understand your point. And I do not disagree with you, Nor do I agree but don't pour out things that aren't correct especially when you don't the credentials to say do. If everyone in the world thought like you every time after failure, the world would never evolve from injustice, war, and devastation. There would also be a lot less motivated people in the world. Lol

Like I said. Thank you for your opinions it will be taken seriously. I am very glad I came on here to share my concerns, this has really helped me !

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just telling it like it is. I was giving you the advice you need to get into medical school given your poor performance relative to the average matriculant (3.6). I never told you to give up, or that you were hopeless, only to work hard and improve your numbers so that you stand a decent chance. As it stands now though, you will be electronically screened before anyone even sees your app. That's just a fact. Bump your GPA over the screen, do well on the MCAT, and you will very likely get an admit if you apply broadly.

Good luck. Now go study.

 

[Holmwood]

I'm going to assume that you have a sGPA lower than 3.0.<< It's a reasonable assumption considering the average sGPA of applicants is consistently lower than the cumulative.

-A B/C average in the core introductory sciences gives the impression that you can't handle the upper division science courses in medical school and will likely drop out. This is why people often encourage low GPA applicants to do well in a 1 year SMP where they will take upper division science courses to prove they can handle the rigors of medical education. Since you are a biology major, you will be taking upper division science courses anyway. You will want to do very well in those, and replan from there. My calculated guess is that your GPA will be floating around a 3.1-3.3.

*In my humble opinion, it would be easier to redeem yourself by retaking courses and applying to DO. If you absolutely insist on applying to MD, then an SMP will be the likely answer.

-A sGPA less than 3.0 suggests that you have insufficient preparation in the basic sciences to tackle the MCAT. Tutoring in a couple months can not substitute for 2-3 years worth of discrepancies regardless of how esteemed the tutor may be. My advice is that you do some self studying before hiring the tutor. Some tutors do offer an online classroom component (ie. KAPLAN), but they're no different from the prep books.

*On a side note, students that can afford very expensive tutors tend to be pretty well off themselves (through parental contributions). These types of individuals may have had immense academic resources at their disposal from a very young age. The success rate reported by the tutor may be a reflection of the pedigree of the students that can afford the service rather than the effectiveness of the tutor. . . Tread carefully.


And um... I don't like it when people say that medical school is their dream. If you prepare reasonably and persevere, it doesn't have to be a dream.

 

[armoman92]

Your undergrad performance is poor for a premed student. Spin it any way you want but a 3.0 is not competitive at MD or DO schools. What is your sGPA? I know you said you don't knowbut you must have some idea. As things stand now you will probably be auto screened at most MD schools and many DO schools. Go read threads of people with 3.6+ GPAs and 33+ MCAT scores that are rejected. Whether you want to hear it or not you have serious grade repair ahead of you. Postpone the MCAT tutoring until you have a realistic plan in place.

Well put. Grow up, and bite the bullet like the rest of us.

And toughen your hide. Some patients will be way, way more rude to you.

 

[GameTheory29]

If I was starting my junior year or in the midst of it and was on this website and got the advice that my gpa at the time (which was probably in the 3.2-3.3 ballpark at the time) wasn't that great, I probably could've kicked it into even more high gear than I did (finished with about a 3.4 ). I've been fortunate to apply and get in, but I think you're lucky to get this advice put in kind words for the most part. And I understand you saying its not poor performance, but is it some of your best effort is the better question.

Take advantage! You have plenty of semesters left to put forth your best effort! And if you change your mind to something else, at least your grades will be better for whatever else you may be interested in.


Also and I try to mention this whenever I can, NOTHING wrong with a gap year at all. There's no sense to rush into something even if its your dream. Medicine was what I wanted to do for a long time but it took gap years to really see it and appreciate why I wanted to do it. That may not be your story but I feel I'm several times the applicant waiting a couple years than trying to apply straight out.

 

[xffan624]

I'm going to assume that you have a sGPA lower than 3.0.<< It's a reasonable assumption considering the average sGPA of applicants is consistently lower than the cumulative.

-A B/C average in the core introductory sciences gives the impression that you can't handle the upper division science courses in medical school and will likely drop out. This is why people often encourage low GPA applicants to do well in a 1 year SMP where they will take upper division science courses to prove they can handle the rigors of medical education. Since you are a biology major, you will be taking upper division science courses anyway. You will want to do very well in those, and replan from there. My calculated guess is that your GPA will be floating around a 3.1-3.3.

I know I'm probably not the typical student, but I just want to point out sweeping generalizations about the OP's ability to succeed in medical school are just that, generalizations. If I came on here and posted my uGPA (3.3), sGPA (< 3.0) I'd probably be told the same thing. That it shows I can't succeed in medical school. Obviously, that's not the case. I'm an MS2 doing fine in my coursework and I've never come close to failing a course. It's especially rich coming from a pre-med student. Oh and there are no upper division science courses in medical school (at least not MS1-2 years). It's mostly basic stuff, learned in excruciating detail. I have no idea how OP would perform in medical school and neither do you. What I do know is he will not be able to find out as he needs to improve his GPA to even have a chance to get in.

 

[Holmwood]

I know I'm probably not the typical student, but I just want to point out sweeping generalizations about the OP's ability to succeed in medical school are just that, generalizations. If I came on here and posted my uGPA (3.3), sGPA (< 3.0) I'd probably be told the same thing. That it shows I can't succeed in medical school. Obviously, that's not the case. I'm an MS2 doing fine in my coursework and I've never come close to failing a course. It's especially rich coming from a pre-med student. Oh and there are no upper division science courses in medical school (at least not MS1-2 years). It's mostly basic stuff, learned in excruciating detail. I have no idea how OP would perform in medical school and neither do you. What I do know is he will not be able to find out as he needs to improve his GPA to even have a chance to get in.

-You are n=1, so you can't make sweeping generalizations about the OP's capabilities either. If it was true that a majority of people with a sGPA < 3.0 could do well in medical school, then why are adcoms demanding that such students take SMPs?

-Alot of upper division science courses at my uni are basically just that, the same things you learn in introductory coursework but with more details. Therefore, the rigor is comparable to med school coursework.
"Performing well in upper division science courses further demonstrates your ability to handle the rigorous science-based coursework found in medical school." http://www.sbcc.edu/counselingcente...s/Medical School Admission Advising Sheet.pdf

-A sGPA lower than 3.0 within first 2 years indicates poor preparation in the sciences. That's not something you can argue against. Now, whether this can be improved as the OP takes upper division science courses and reviews missed concepts in the last 2 years through prep books is something I am trying to have a discussion about.

 

[Goro]

It's a waste of time (and money) to think about MCAT because your GPA is a problem. The avg. GPA for MD acceptees is 3.6.

You have yet to show any Adcom that you can survive medical school.

If you retake all F/D/C science coursework, use AACOMAS' grade replacement and apply to DO schools.

If you're boning for mD, the do a post-bac or SMP, ace MCAT and then aim for those MD schools that reward reinvention.


My dream is to go to medical school. Today, I just feel so discouraged about my future. And normally I am quite confident. I am starting intense MCAT tutoring March 1, in hopes of taking my test in June, and start applying in the summer so I can attend medical school the fall after graduation (MAY 2016). I wanted to insure I would receive the BEST score I possibly could. And trust me this tutor isn't cheap, and she has very good credentials, and many years of tutoring under her belt, as well as a phenomenal success rate.

I have taken many strides these past years into molding myself to being a great candidate for medical school, but today I just feel defeated. As if, I am living a dream. What do you think? Do I have a chance? Am I living in a dream world or will I be okay, and I am just having a bad day?

Is this normal?[/QUOTE]

 

[xffan624]

-You are n=1, so you can't make sweeping generalizations about the OP's capabilities either. If it was true that a majority of people with a sGPA < 3.0 could do well in medical school, then why are adcoms demanding that such students take SMPs?

That's why I didn't. I told them what they need to fix to get into medical school. The GPA for now.

Medical school is competitive. SMP's are a way to distinguish those who have a low GPA because they're lazy or didn't take their coursework seriously enough from those who really can't hack it in school. I personally don't they're necessary in most cases, but that's the cheapo in me, I guess. I certainly don't think they're necessary in OP's case.

I also believe a good MCAT can compensate a bit for a lower GPA, but in OP's case, they need to get their GPA above the screening levels before they even consider it.

 

[Psai]

Go to nursing school and then do an online dnp. You can wear a white coat, put a stethoscope on, post on facebook that you're a doctor and tell all your patients to call you doctor simplymichele

 

[referee3]

My undergrad is not poor performance. My GPA is very average for college students in America right now. Average GPA for college students as a biology major, I agree with you is on the low side. But by you judging my performance as poor undergrad, is incorrect. I understand your point. And I do not disagree with you, Nor do I agree but don't pour out things that aren't correct especially when you don't the credentials to say do. If everyone in the world thought like you every time after failure, the world would never evolve from injustice, war, and devastation. There would also be a lot less motivated people in the world. Lol

Like I said. Thank you for your opinions it will be taken seriously. I am very glad I came on here to share my concerns, this has really helped me !

:troll:
Smells like a troll...

Even if you are not a troll and just being aggressive for no reason than I still have to agree with what has been previously said. Your performance in undergrad is poor compared to medical school applicants/matriculants.

Take a gap year or 2 after school and get some experience/ take post bacc classes to get that GPA up. Than take the MCAT after you have had at least 3 months of pure study time (i.e.: no job or classes at the same time).

and if all else fails remember you can always go carib...

 

[Atmosphere123]

One of the common pitfalls of pre-meds is putting lots of effort into shadowing, pre-med clubs, etc and neglecting grades with the thought that stellar extracurricular experiences will propel them to medical school. Perhaps scale back your extra stuff and focus on grades.