EMERGENCY MEDICINE 2015-2016 Thread

[jgauger]

Does it matter WHEN you interview? I know some people say it doesn't, but it just seems like a program might get enough people it likes before January and then the later interviewers are just kinda there. I don't know, I'm sure a bunch of you have opinions on this.

In the aliem match advice video, the PDs say they have matched from every interview date. So probably not too much.

http://www.aliem.com/em-match-advice-interviewing-strategies/

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[HoosierdaddyO]

What are people's "magic number"?? mine happens to be 11, if and when I hit that, ill start canceling one for one.

 

[Swingman]

12 is what I'm shooting for, basically just because of that NRMP data that everyone likes to quote about diminishing returns after 12 interviews. That said, if I happen to get a bunch of invites from my reach programs, I'd consider interviewing at all of those even if it puts me past 12. That would be a good problem to have!

 

[deleted720339]

12 is what I'm shooting for, basically just because of that NRMP data that everyone likes to quote about diminishing returns after 12 interviews. That said, if I happen to get a bunch of invites from my reach programs, I'd consider interviewing at all of those even if it puts me past 12. That would be a good problem to have!

Ditto here. I'm only going over 12 if I end up getting one of my reaches late in the game.

 

[StephBee]

Ditto here. I'm only going over 12 if I end up getting one of my reaches late in the game.

Also ditto, though I dunno how ill exactly handle mine since I'll have a few programs that I get to rank twice (EM/IM).

At this point, interviews period would be nice. Is it the 16th yet?

 

[Swingman]

So what exactly is proper etiquette for cancelling an interview? Call the coordinator I presume, but is there anything specific we should (or shouldn't) do?

 

[ChrisTraeger]

From what I've heard, DO be polite. DON'T be not polite. I've been told e-mails are fine as well. If you're cancelling an interview, you aren't matching at the program, so the only way you can really harm yourself is if you piss off the coordinator enough to make them contact other programs. I think as long as you're cordial and make sure the message is received (so that they don't hold a date for you that you don't show up to), you'll be fine.

 

[FallingFromSpace]

So what exactly is proper etiquette for cancelling an interview? Call the coordinator I presume, but is there anything specific we should (or shouldn't) do?

Assuming you mean to cancel the interview entirely, and not reschedule, then go to the scheduling site (if they have one) and cancel your slot, then email the coordinator, thank them for the offer, and let them know that they can release the interview to someone else. No need to be specific about why, just be courteous. (This implies your interview day was more than the requisite 10 days out, as someone else has to get the opportunity to interview there. If your canceling outside that window, you'd best give a good reason why and offer your apologies, as it will be difficult to find someone who can afford a short notice flight.)

 

[Swingman]

Another question for you guys, related to the number of interviews to go on. In a stroke of good luck, I've actually gotten invites from a handful of what I would consider "reach" programs for me. Do you think the statistics work out the same way if the ROL is more "top-heavy" with more competitive programs or should I try to stick to 12 interviews plus my reach programs?

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

I think people may disagree with me, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. It does seem regardless of if you are top heavy or not most people who interview at 12 or more will ultimately match even if those 12 are Hopkins, Denver, Cincinnati, San Fran, upenn, etc etc etc you get the idea. Also keep in mind going on interviews in the upper teens gets tiring and almost to a point ridiculous. It's okay to have a few safety schools but 12 seems to be the secure number.

 

[AceH]

So, what is the best strategy to interview and rank? I feel like you can maximize your chances of matching if you have a good mix of top tier, middle tier and low tier programs (even though I have no idea which are top vs middle tier vs lower tier). 5-6 top tier programs you've received invites from, 7-8 middle tier and 2-3 lower tier. However, if you are an applicant with 10+ top heavy programs, then you are competitive enough to get those interviews and competitive enough to rank only those and competitive enough for a successful match.

P.S I am more of a gut feeling kind of guy. If I absolutely love a program despite a bad location or weaker nature, I will definitely rank it very high.

 

[ChrisTraeger]

The best strategy to rank is to 1) Make your rank list 100% in the order that you want to go to those schools and not where you think likes you most, and 2) Only don't rank a program if you'd literally rather not match than go there. Remember, the priority in the match is given to the student's choice, not the program's.

 

[jgauger]

I agree with CT, rank in the order in which you prefer the programs and rank every program you interview at.
Once you get an interview invite, the competitiveness of the program compared to the applicant is less relevant than the interaction on interview day and fit between applicant and program. Plus, matching to #1 on your list is pointless if it isn't the place you most want to be. Also, it doesn't really matter where on your ROL you match as long as you're willing to train at that program.
And again, the match is weighted in our favor so aim high.

 

[alpinism]

There's no special secret or formula to increasing your chances of matching.

Organizing your interview and rank list by "tiers" or "competitiveness" will only hurt your chances of matching as high as possible.

It really is very simple: Interview at your top programs (7, 10, 12, 15, or whatever) then rank all of them in order of where you'd like to end up for residency. It doesn't really matter how "competitive" a program is since once you've been invited to interview, you're already qualified and they're mostly just looking to see if you'd be a good fit or not. If you're concerned about not matching, then interview at a few more places and rank them at the bottom of your list.

Here's what a rank list should look like:

1. your #1 program
2. your #2 program
3. your #3 program
4. your #4 program
5. your #5 program

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

It was mentioned to me by an EM advisor to schedule interviews for programs that might be lower on your list for later on in the season (jan/feb). That way if and when some programs send out invites due to cancelations, you won't have scheduling conflicts as you are more inclined to drop your lesser interested program if a more higher interest program offers you an invite during those months as they so often do . Any opinions??

 

[wonderbread12]

It was mentioned to me by an EM advisor to schedule interviews for programs that might be lower on your list for later on in the season (jan/feb). That way if and when some programs send out invites due to cancelations, you won't have scheduling conflicts as you are more inclined to drop your lesser interested program if a more higher interest program offers you an invite during those months as they so often do . Any opinions??

that seems like it could work ...i guess you could also schedule super early and have most of nov/dec free which would have your entire jan/feb open

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

I agree that that is also another option but if your someone with 12 plus interviews. There are only so many Fridays and Tuesdays, etc that you can schedule in a 2 month period. I guess the point is to schedule your big names sooner and your backs ups later, so that way if you do get a late invite from a much wanted program you won't have to cancel a "much wanted" program to allow room for another much wanted program. This is under the assumption that you are in double digits and have limited availability in your schedule as is.

 

[EMHopeful9012]

So I've been super lucky this cycle and have had about 25-30 interview offers (applied to 50 because I panicked). I've canceled about 10 so far since I know they should go to other applicants ASAP but I'm concerned about not going to some of the "lower tier" programs for fear of not matching. Should I still go to some of these programs (in desirable locations) or drop them? Thanks so much guys and good luck!

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

It's honestly up to you as someone who has 7 interviews, with 1 waiting guaranteed after the 16th, I'm sure those with little invites will say drop them so they have a fighting chance while others will say that you deserve them and therefore deserve to go on as many as you want. I agree with both parties, but as I was trying to say if you look at the nrmp charting., whether you interview only at top or lower tierd programs if you interview and rank at least 12 programs regardless of tiers you WILL match...period. Do not underestimate how tired you will be after going on double digit interviews. If money is an issue, than that's another thing. Some other people will say if you cancel one program, you might miss out on a program that was a sleeper lol. In reality I'm a big believer of karma and the golden rule hence why if and when I reach 12 invites I will cancel one for every new one I get at that point. I just think it's not greedy to go on more but the Return on investment is blunted dramatically, plus if that means that I can help out another applicant go from 3 to 4 or 5 interviews, maybe just maybe the big guy upstairs will recognize that lol

 

[StephBee]

So I've been super lucky this cycle and have had about 25-30 interview offers (applied to 50 because I panicked). I've canceled about 10 so far since I know they should go to other applicants ASAP but I'm concerned about not going to some of the "lower tier" programs for fear of not matching. Should I still go to some of these programs (in desirable locations) or drop them? Thanks so much guys and good luck!

If you're the kind of applicant that gets 30 interviews, go to the ones you want to attend. More than 15 is just silly, you'll burn yourself out and the later programs you won't be representing your best self anyway. Don't go to an interview just because it's a desirable name or place unless you really could see yourself going there.

 

[EMHopeful9012]

I totally understand where you guys are coming from and there's no way I'm going on more than 15. I guess I was asking if I should go the the 15 best programs I get an interview from (in ideal locations) or throw in a few "safer" programs? And believe me, I'm also of the mindset that these should go to other applicants asap.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

Go to the 15 programs that's you want to go to. If you rank 15 top tierd programs you will match. If you rank 13 top tierd and 2 low tierd you will match if you rank 14 low tierd and 1 high tiered program you will still match (unless your like a Sheldon cooper kinda person lol). So honestly go to the programs where you feel you would like to match...boom there goes the dynamite!!

 

[StephBee]

I totally understand where you guys are coming from and there's no way I'm going on more than 15. I guess I was asking if I should go the the 15 best programs I get an interview from (in ideal locations) or throw in a few "safer" programs? And believe me, I'm also of the mindset that these should go to other applicants asap.

If it were me I'd go to like 2 "safe" ones but I'm not as strong of an applicant. I'm sure you'll be fine either way. I would just chose the programs I liked more than worrying about safety. Once you have the interview, the reputation matters less.

 

[StephBee]

I totally understand where you guys are coming from and there's no way I'm going on more than 15. I guess I was asking if I should go the the 15 best programs I get an interview from (in ideal locations) or throw in a few "safer" programs? And believe me, I'm also of the mindset that these should go to other applicants asap.

PS we're super jelly of your insane number of interviews.

 

[EMHopeful9012]

Go to the 15 programs that's you want to go to. If you rank 15 top tierd programs you will match. If you rank 13 top tierd and 2 low tierd you will match if you rank 14 low tierd and 1 high tiered program you will still match (unless your like a Sheldon cooper kinda person lol). So honestly go to the programs where you feel you would like to match...boom there goes the dynamite!!

haha but actually imagine him as an EM doc loll

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

haha but actually imagine him as an EM doc loll

At least he'd prolly get the diagnosis right lol!!!

 

[EMHopeful9012]

At least he'd prolly get the diagnosis right lol!!!

But what if a trauma comes in? haha

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

But what if a trauma comes in? haha

In that case he would jet out of the trauma bay like Flash himself lol!!

 

[StephBee]

Nerds

 

[EMHopeful9012]

Nerds

UGH maybe I should go on all my interviews

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

Bazinga!!!

 

[StephBee]

Ouch, I got burned. Where's the burn ointment

 

[StephBee]

 

[Fox800]

That feel when people on SDN post rejections to one of your programs, but you haven't gotten an invite or a rejection yet.

 

[gryffindor100]

View attachment 197024

omg this is so funny im dead

 

[AmericaAmerica]

Do you think certain program don't offer interviews until Step 2 scores are in? Many of the program's websites say something vague about USLME score, but not specifically that step 2 scores are required. I was told by my school that I didn't need to take it/release scores until after interviews were sent out, but I'm thinking some might not be coming my way for this very reason. Any thoughts?

 

[Fox800]

I applied with my Step 2 CK and still haven't received a response on 90% of my apps. I just think it's taking a long time for most applicants.

 

[racerwad]

Do you think certain program don't offer interviews until Step 2 scores are in? Many of the program's websites say something vague about USLME score, but not specifically that step 2 scores are required. I was told by my school that I didn't need to take it/release scores until after interviews were sent out, but I'm thinking some might not be coming my way for this very reason. Any thoughts?

Do not worry, lack of Step 2 scores (assuming Step 1 is average or higher for the specialty) is not the problem. Many programs are waiting to release their first wave of invites. Most places won't send start sending out invites for the subsequent waves until after ACEP. You'll probably want to make sure Step 2 is in for ranking, but otherwise, I wouldn't worry.

 

[runningallthetime]

So outside of SDN standards, whats the average number of interviews most people are hearing that people have

 

[Saminto]

The people I know in my class applying for EM have between 2-10 invites at this point, with most around 5. Where I'm currently rotating, many students only have 2.

 

[alpinism]

As others have mentioned most applicants seem to have around 3 to 12 invites (assuming you're not still waiting on a 2nd SLOE).

It's going to vary considerably from applicant to applicant since most county programs plus many west coast programs have yet to send out invites. Someone who's applying to mostly southern programs is going to have way more invites than someone who's applying to mostly west coast programs. In addition, most of the NYC programs have still not sent out invites.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

Kinda curious what people's main driving forces for interviewing at certain programs might be? ....reputation, geography, 3 vs 4 years, salary, community vs academic, simulation lab, etc etc etc?

 

[Cinematographer]

Kinda curious what people's main driving forces for interviewing at certain programs might be? ....reputation, geography, 3 vs 4 years, salary, community vs academic, simulation lab, etc etc etc?

Excluding the places where I have rotated, my motivation to interview at certain programs more than others is based on location, reputation, quality of faculty/teaching, and fellowship opportunities, all in that order of importance.

Other important things will come into play once I've interviewed at x given program (e.g., Does the PD suck? Are the residents happy? Is this program at war with other specialties/departments?).

 

[StephBee]

Kinda curious what people's main driving forces for interviewing at certain programs might be? ....reputation, geography, 3 vs 4 years, salary, community vs academic, simulation lab, etc etc etc?

Things I looked at were location program type (academic), #ED visits, fellowship opportunities, 3 year >> 4 year. Once I actually get interviews, it'll be more about fit and community.

 

[Tenk]

The #1 reason to match to a program should be based on how much moonlighting it allows.

 

[lp430]

How helpful would it be to go to ACEP and try and talk to PDs? I'm a DO applicant with decent board scores, but a lot fewer invites than I'd like at this point.

 

[Circlehook]

Is it bad that I automatically downgrade programs on my list that don't use interview broker? For $2/invite, it's not exactly cost prohibitive for a service which alleviates stress on both parties. I've waited up to a week for programs to ERAS message me back with a date or to inform me that the dates I wanted are no longer available .
Interview broker: Received+Choose Date+Confirmation = 2 minutes. If I was a PD, I would pay for this out of my own pocket if necessary. It seems the only reasons not to use it are unaware/don't care/too frugal/disorganized/technologically challenged, none of which are desirable qualities in a residency program.

So what gives? Are there reasons NOT to use this service?

(Yes I searched this briefly, did not yield much)

 

[Fox800]

Fingers crossed for some more invites today. Good luck everyone!

And +1 on Interview Broker for everyone. Makes it sooooo much faster and less stressful. Not to mention rearranging your schedule to fit more invites in a limited time period.

 

[StephBee]

Is it bad that I automatically downgrade programs on my list that don't use interview broker? For $2/invite, it's not exactly cost prohibitive for a service which alleviates stress on both parties. I've waited up to a week for programs to ERAS message me back with a date or to inform me that the dates I wanted are no longer available .
Interview broker: Received+Choose Date+Confirmation = 2 minutes. If I was a PD, I would pay for this out of my own pocket if necessary. It seems the only reasons not to use it are unaware/don't care/too frugal/disorganized/technologically challenged, none of which are desirable qualities in a residency program.

So what gives? Are there reasons NOT to use this service?

(Yes I searched this briefly, did not yield much)

I totally agree with the interview broker love. Just to play devils advocate, by actually having to email them, they do get a small view of how you act via email (polite vs rude). Is that worth the extra hassle, to me no but you never know.

 

[wololololololo]

is the bolus coming in the evening? got nothing this morning