ERAS Filters

[rechaim]

Does anyone know about the "filters" ? I know they can sort the candidates out based on AOA status, lowest USMLE score etc...but does anyone know ALL the possible ways the "filters" can work?

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[Faebinder]

Does anyone know about the "filters" ? I know they can sort the candidates out based on AOA status, lowest USMLE score etc...but does anyone know ALL the possible ways the "filters" can work?

PDWS is posted on ERAS.... they can filter you out in ANY WAY THEY WANT! Citizenship, FACE PICTURES, USMLE ATTEMPTS, PUBLICATIONS, USMLE SCORES... whatever you want.

What I wish they would do is auto-email rejection to people when they filter them out.

Hi,
Program XXX thinks you suck too hard for you to qualify to be reviewed. Your $25 were happily used up. Good luck sucker!

 

[rechaim]

The PDWS overview on ERAS does not talk about all the possibilities... thanks for your help... well I honestly think that if ERAS makes filters they should return the 25 $... filters are an excuse for the program not to post their TRUE requirements on their website...hence the applicant is paying 25$ for his application to be automatically trashed? That is really unfair. Sounds funny, I know, but in my case I have three children to feed so it's not funny to be "filtered out" automatically and easily waste 500 $ that could be used to buy formula. If the programs are not going to review my application at all they should have posted on their website : we filter based on usmle score < 235, or > 4 publications , or no ugly people please...at least something that would prevent people to waste money , like minorities etc.

 

[Faebinder]

The PDWS overview on ERAS does not talk about all the possibilities... thanks for your help... well I honestly think that if ERAS makes filters they should return the 25 $... filters are an excuse for the program not to post their TRUE requirements on their website...hence the applicant is paying 25$ for his application to be automatically trashed? That is really unfair. Sounds funny, I know, but in my case I have three children to feed so it's not funny to be "filtered out" automatically and easily waste 500 $ that could be used to buy formula. If the programs are not going to review my application at all they should have posted on their website : we filter based on usmle score < 235, or > 4 publications , or no ugly people please...at least something that would prevent people to waste money , like minorities etc.

Absolutely agree, but ERAS will do no such thing that drops its revenue by a few 10 million dollars. (There is no a program filters by >4 publications, that would shock me.)

 

[rechaim]

By the way, how can they filter people based on the way they look? Isn't it so that they are only allowed to see our pics once they have invited us? Or am I being waaaaay too naive?

Ummm...10 million.... maybe I should sue them for illegally providing filters to PDs while charging us for a service that they are NOT providing??? Meaning: they DO affirm on their website that we are paying them so our application WILL BE REVIEWED electronically...

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The ERAS software allows us to filter applications on almost anything in your file. It also allows us to "block" certain aspects of your application, such as your sex, citizenship, or visa type so that we cannot see them / use them in filters.

There are some things I cannot filter on:
1. Number of USMLE attempts. Surprising, but I can only filter based on your last attempt score.
1a. Lowest USMLE score -- again, I can only filter based on your last reported score.
2. Pictures -- I assume you were joking above.
3. Grades -- these are in your transcript, but not in the database.
4. Previous experience -- I can filter to find people who have a previous residency, but it is idfficult to filter based on anything.

As for wasting money, many programs do list their requirements on their website. The problem is that although I am quite clear about the minimum requirements on our website, only a small proportion of IMG's who meet those requirements actually get an interview. For example, I require US clinical experience. Observerships in general don't count -- you need primary responsibility. USCE in an academic program counts more. The more experience the better, and the better the LOR the better. Hence, I review all applications with USCE but a few rise to the top and get an interview, but it's impossible to set a rule in ERAS or on my website that tell you whether you should apply or not -- it all depends on whom else is applying and what their applications look like.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

By the way, how can they filter people based on the way they look? Isn't it so that they are only allowed to see our pics once they have invited us? Or am I being waaaaay too naive?

Ummm...10 million.... maybe I should sue them for illegally providing filters to PDs while charging us for a service that they are NOT providing??? Meaning: they DO affirm on their website that we are paying them so our application WILL BE REVIEWED electronically...

Just to be clear: Filtering does NOT prevent me from downloading your application. I get all applications no matter what.

What I can do is set the filter for USMLE score < 200 (or whatever I want to set as a lower limit). I can then take the 50+ applications that meet this criteria, quickly look through them to see if there are any "diamonds in the rough", and if not send a rejection email to all of them. So, all applications are reviewed to some extent.

 

[rechaim]

w

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Can you talk a little more about the "diamonds on the raw " part? What possibly could be a diamond with a score below 200? I mean, I have my own opinions I believe way too many good candidates are being selected based solely on USMLE scores, but it would be great to hear it from a PD...

Well, there aren;t really many "diamonds" with USMLE's less than 200. Still, I quickly look at each application -- if they come from a school that I have experience with, or if they work in the local area (perhaps with someone I know), then I do take a closer look.

For example, this year a low scorer happened to do a rotation with one of our local docs -- I saw the familiar name when reviewing the file and pulled it out of the group. In the end, still not going to interview the person but I was able to contact the doc and let them know what was going on.

 

[Faebinder]

Diamond in the rough.....E.g. Someone who scored 75 in step 1 and then 95 in step 2 showing potential for being able to score high enough to shine and attract a PD's attention.

 

[rechaim]

Diamond in the rough

 

[Faebinder]

I agree...but you know what I don't get? Some people are stellar candidates, I mean really good people with IQ > 140 with wonderful grades in med school who suddenly have a crazy headache during step 1 and even tylenol doesnt help... the results are suboptimal and this person, let's say, scores 186... How unfair that she will be "filtered out" !!! And there's no such thing as to say "if everything else is good then she will be invited for an interview"...well this is just not happening...

I feel like I am hijacking the thread by answering but here goes.

Well, unfortunately medicine doesnt require IQ as much as it requires experience and memory (note I am not saying medicine is for dummies, reread my words). The family medicine or internal medicine doctor in "pick your favorite non-US country" who has been practicing 5 years is more likely to score high on standardized tests than your fresh graduate, with the only thing against him is his ability to read a question in 1.15 minutes. Chuck it off to experience. You aren't inventing a new modality of treatment or discovering a new disease. You arent doing anything new in the USMLE that someone else hasnt encountered. You are just proving that you have been through enough cases about the subject. As a matter of fact, if you think too much it might be a negative as you can fool yourself into the wrong answer. You need to be able to regurgitate fast enough on those tests which can only happen efficiently if you have experienced the situation, memorized the solution or the basics of it and are able to come up with an answer cold to spit out an answer in 1 minute and 15 seconds.

 

[rechaim]

I feel like I am hijacking the thread by answering but here goes.

Well, unfortunately medicine doesnt require IQ as much as it requires experience and memory. The family medicine or internal medicine doctor in "pick your favorite non-US country" who has been practicing 5 years is more likely to score high on standardized tests than your fresh graduate, with the only thing against him is his ability to read a question in 1.15 minutes. Chuck it off to experience. You aren't inventing a new modality of treatment or discovering a new disease. You arent doing anything new in the USMLE that someone else hasnt encountered. You are just proving that you have been through enough cases about the subject. As a matter of fact, if you think too much it might be a negative as you can fool yourself into the wrong answer. You need to be able to regurgitate fast enough on those tests which can only happen efficiently if you have experienced the situation, memorized the solution or the basics of it and are able to come up with an answer cold to spit out an answer in 1 minute and 15 seconds.

Yes, but anyways somebody with a terrible headache who otherwise would be a stellar candidate might be filtered out ### with a 76 score...

 

[Faebinder]

Yes, but anyways somebody with a terrible headache who otherwise would be a stellar candidate might be filtered out ### with a 76 score...

By all means, tell them how they should filter the 3500 applicants for the 12 positions. Sometimes I look at the numbers and just wonder why do we even allow non US citizens and green cards to apply considering the sheer number of applicants. GME money is tax money after all. Of course the answer immediately pops up... $$$$ and high scores make programs look good.

You asked about ERAS filters and I answered... (I still think the coordinators subtly filter according to picture... heh )

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You asked about ERAS filters and I answered... (I still think the coordinators subtly filter according to picture... heh )

Sounds like another good study. "Relationship of Physical Attriactiveness to success in a residency training program". What happens if you actually find a positive or negative correlation? Wouldn't that be fun to explain on NPR.

On a different note, sad news: Stephen Colbert has dropped out of the race for president. Ahh well.

 

[Faebinder]

Sounds like another good study. "Relationship of Physical Attriactiveness to success in a residency training program". What happens if you actually find a positive or negative correlation? Wouldn't that be fun to explain on NPR.

On a different note, sad news: Stephen Colbert has dropped out of the race for president. Ahh well.

I know... If I lived in SC I would absolutely vote for him.. I was hoping he would at least run as an independant. I can't believe the democrats were dumb enough not to take him.. South Carolina ALWAYS votes republican. He would have technically taken away the votes of one opposing state.


I bet there is a correlation with good looks but it would be impossible to prove unless it is done double blinded. I bet it's more significant for male program coordinators, and you would definitely need to separate females and males.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I bet there is a correlation with good looks but it would be impossible to prove unless it is done double blinded. I bet it's more significant for male program coordinators, and you would definitely need to separate females and males.

There used to be a rumor going around at my former program that the PD had a preference since nearly all of the female residents were of the same "type".

 

[Faebinder]

There used to be a rumor going around at my former program that the PD had a preference since nearly all of the female residents were of the same "type".

He was a chubby chaser?


hahahah... i had to say it (it's an anonymous online forum after all).

 

[Winged Scapula]

He was a chubby chaser?


hahahah... i had to say it (it's an anonymous online forum after all).

awwww....that's not very nice.

 

[Faebinder]

awwww....that's not very nice.

Oh come on... I thought the standard PDs go after pretty looking residents. Sides, once you become an attending, your beauty is enhanced by a factor of 5 and you magically slim up.

 

[winner123]

Just to be clear: Filtering does NOT prevent me from downloading your application. I get all applications no matter what.

What I can do is set the filter for USMLE score < 200 (or whatever I want to set as a lower limit). I can then take the 50+ applications that meet this criteria, quickly look through them to see if there are any "diamonds in the rough", and if not send a rejection email to all of them. So, all applications are reviewed to some extent.

aProgDirector Sir ,what would be a program Director's impression of me based on my performance which is:

Step-1 score:96(231)
Step-2CK Score 83(203)
Step-2CS Passed-second attempt.
Would my Step-1 score catch your or any other Program Directors' attention, considering that Step-1 test is supposed to be the hardest one amongst the USMLE.My Step-1 score shows that I have the ability to score very high.Also,my Step-2CK score is still >82(200).Would I still be filtered by the programs where the score must be 85 or above.
Also,Is it possible ,say if I score>90 or 95 on Step-3 exam,I will be considered by all the programs which require scores 90 or above on the steps.In other words,can then my Step-3 score be considered instead of Step-2CK to make a decision about me,considering the fact that step-3 is the real test of one's skill in practising unsupervised medicine.This is the skill which every program director actually is looking for.Also,step-3 is too hard an exam for the one who has not yet done his residency.

Please reply.
Thanks.

 

[google_singh]

Well, unfortunately medicine doesnt require IQ as much as it requires experience and memory (note I am not saying medicine is for dummies, reread my words). The family medicine or internal medicine doctor in "pick your favorite non-US country" who has been practicing 5 years is more likely to score high on standardized tests than your fresh graduate, with the only thing against him is his ability to read a question in 1.15 minutes. Chuck it off to experience. You aren't inventing a new modality of treatment or discovering a new disease. You arent doing anything new in the USMLE that someone else hasnt encountered. You are just proving that you have been through enough cases about the subject. As a matter of fact, if you think too much it might be a negative as you can fool yourself into the wrong answer. You need to be able to regurgitate fast enough on those tests which can only happen efficiently if you have experienced the situation, memorized the solution or the basics of it and are able to come up with an answer cold to spit out an answer in 1 minute and 15 seconds.

I agree cent percent

 

[Winged Scapula]

aProgDirector Sir ,what would be a program Director's impression of me based on my performance which is:

Step-1 score:96(231)
Step-2CK Score 83(203)
Step-2CS Passed-second attempt.
Would my Step-1 score catch your or any other Program Directors' attention, considering that Step-1 test is supposed to be the hardest one amongst the USMLE.My Step-1 score shows that I have the ability to score very high.Also,my Step-2CK score is still >82(200).Would I still be filtered by the programs where the score must be 85 or above.
Also,Is it possible ,say if I score>90 or 95 on Step-3 exam,I will be considered by all the programs which require scores 90 or above on the steps.In other words,can then my Step-3 score be considered instead of Step-2CK to make a decision about me,considering the fact that step-3 is the real test of one's skill in practising unsupervised medicine.This is the skill which every program director actually is looking for.Also,step-3 is too hard an exam for the one who has not yet done his residency.

Please reply.
Thanks.

Please do not ask for "what are my chances" responses because they are impossible to answer.

BTW, Step 3 is actually easier if you haven't completed residency, since most of the questions (especially for us surgery types) will be outside of your field of training. It is much better to take it earlier when you have some knowledge of Peds, OB-Gyn, Psych, IM, etc. from medical school.

 

[winner123]

Please do not ask for "what are my chances" responses because they are impossible to answer.

BTW, Step 3 is actually easier if you haven't completed residency, since most of the questions (especially for us surgery types) will be outside of your field of training. It is much better to take it earlier when you have some knowledge of Peds, OB-Gyn, Psych, IM, etc. from medical school.

Dear WS,

I was talking about the residents in internal medicine,and primary care and other Internal medicine combined specialties.
This because I have applied in these, and also IMG's mostly apply in these specialties.
Thanks indeed.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Dear WS,

I was talking about the residents in internal medicine,and primary care and other Internal medicine combined specialties.
This because I have applied in these, and also IMG's mostly apply in these specialties.
Thanks indeed.

I'm not sure what the above has to do with my response. It sounds like you don't know what I'm getting at.

1) please do not ask APD or anyone else here to assess your chances of matching, in any specialty. SDN is not designed for that and no one can realistically tell you what your chances are.

2) secondly, from your earlier post: "the fact that step-3 is the real test of one's skill in practising unsupervised medicine.This is the skill which every program director actually is looking for.Also,step-3 is too hard an exam for the one who has not yet done his residency."

Many, many, many FMGs take Step 3 before they even apply for a US residency. Most US residents take Step 3 as early as they can. You imply (or state) that Step 3 is "too hard" for someone who hasn't done residency.

As a matter of fact, regardless of which residency you choose, Step 3 is easier the earlier you take it, the closer to medical school you take it. Many US residencies require residents to take it early in their training.

Step 3 covers Peds, IM, Psychiatry, Ob-Gyn, and Surgery: the Core US rotations. As an IM resident you will have very little exposure and continued training in these other fields (ie, if you are an IM resident, you will probably not get Peds, Psychiatry, Surgery or Ob training), and therefore, will find those sections of Step 3 harder to pass. If you take the exam closer to your medical school training in these fields, you are likely to do better.

You can ignore my advice, which you seem to take offense at, but I am telling you this is conventional wisdom. Doing an IM residency is not going to help you on the Peds, OB, Psych, etc. questions on Step 3.

Finally, Step 3 is not a "real test of ...practicing unsupervised medicine". Step 3 is a generalist test with a broad range of topic matter which is more clinically oriented than Step 1, but most program directors care only that you pass. Your Step 3 score is not used to evaluate your application unless you have failed it.

 

[winner123]

I'm not sure what the above has to do with my response. It sounds like you don't know what I'm getting at.

1) please do not ask APD or anyone else here to assess your chances of matching, in any specialty. SDN is not designed for that and no one can realistically tell you what your chances are.

2) secondly, from your earlier post: "the fact that step-3 is the real test of one's skill in practising unsupervised medicine.This is the skill which every program director actually is looking for.Also,step-3 is too hard an exam for the one who has not yet done his residency."

Many, many, many FMGs take Step 3 before they even apply for a US residency. Most US residents take Step 3 as early as they can. You imply (or state) that Step 3 is "too hard" for someone who hasn't done residency.

As a matter of fact, regardless of which residency you choose, Step 3 is easier the earlier you take it, the closer to medical school you take it. Many US residencies require residents to take it early in their training.

Step 3 covers Peds, IM, Psychiatry, Ob-Gyn, and Surgery: the Core US rotations. As an IM resident you will have very little exposure and continued training in these other fields (ie, if you are an IM resident, you will probably not get Peds, Psychiatry, Surgery or Ob training), and therefore, will find those sections of Step 3 harder to pass. If you take the exam closer to your medical school training in these fields, you are likely to do better.

You can ignore my advice, which you seem to take offense at, but I am telling you this is conventional wisdom. Doing an IM residency is not going to help you on the Peds, OB, Psych, etc. questions on Step 3.

Finally, Step 3 is not a "real test of ...practicing unsupervised medicine". Step 3 is a generalist test with a broad range of topic matter which is more clinically oriented than Step 1, but most program directors care only that you pass. Your Step 3 score is not used to evaluate your application unless you have failed it.

This is what the USMLE says about Step-3:
Purpose

"The purpose of Step 3 is to determine if a physician possesses and can apply the medical knowledge and understanding of clinical science considered essential for the 'unsupervised practice of medicine', with emphasis on patient management in ambulatory care settings. The inclusion of Step 3 in the USMLE sequence of licensing examinations ensures that attention is devoted to the importance of assessing the knowledge and skills of physicians who are assuming independent responsibility for providing general medical care to patients."

 

[Law2Doc]

This is what the USMLE says about Step-3:
Purpose

"The purpose of Step 3 is to determine if a physician possesses and can apply the medical knowledge and understanding of clinical science considered essential for the 'unsupervised practice of medicine', with emphasis on patient management in ambulatory care settings. The inclusion of Step 3 in the USMLE sequence of licensing examinations ensures that attention is devoted to the importance of assessing the knowledge and skills of physicians who are assuming independent responsibility for providing general medical care to patients."

You are sort of missing the point. Step 3 won't impact your residency chances (notwithstanding what the blurb about Step 3 is on the USMLE website). Certainly not as much has having to take CS twice. Step 3 is basically going to be regarded as a pass/fail test for those who take it during PGY-1, and the score isn't going to have much impact for those who take it earlier; it certainly can't be used to replace Step 2. It is simply not that important- just something necessary for licensing. You have to realize that most US students are going to land residency interviews with just Step 1, and some won't even have taken Step 2 before the match. Step 2 can help a lackluster Step 1 grade, but can also taint a good one.

But what WS was trying to tell you is that you can't use this board for a preliminary assessment from PDs of your chances. This isn't a place for a preliminary ruling. It's a place for questions. So if you have questions about the process, ask them. But if you are asking PDs "will I get X residency with Y scores" then you are on the wrong board. This is not a place for a personal assessment of chances.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thank you, L2D, excellent post above and my thoughts exactly.

Regardless of what the NBME thinks about Step 3, what I am telling you is what Program Directors, faculty and US medical students and residents think about it and how they use it. It is only important if you fail (which very few people do). Otherwise, it is essentially ignored as part of your application.

 

[The Wanderer]

\m

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Sir,
I am an IMG and Sikh by religion, applying for Match 2009 in IM.
Already got one Interview call from a Program, but what bothered me was a Rejection from a Program which invited almost all people with exact credentials as mine. And some(in fact 4 people) with lesser scores and other credentials.
The rejection came ,as obvious without stating any reason, except the number of applications they received. On calling the Program, theres no one to answer the question, as the PD is on vacation and reviewing applications, and doesnt want to be bothered with phone calls.

Now, I have this thought and notion bothering me , that the rejection came only because of my Religious appearance(Sikhism) which requires me to wear Turban and have uncut hair,beard.

So that leaves me thinking about my chances further in the Match process , and about changing my pic or altogether removing it ???

I understand that one wont be happy at such a place which rejected you because of your looks. But is this the picture of the most of the programs or is it just random thing and I shouldn't care about it .

I would be happy to hear anything.

It's impossible to know why you were rejected. It's easy to compare USMLE scores, but all of the other "credentials" like quality of Medical School, LOR's, PS, etc are hard to quantify.

Is it possible that you're being discriminated against because of your physical appearance? Of course it's possible, and perhaps even likely. Part of the problem is that many PD's have had trouble getting visas for applicants from the Middle East. Homeland security has this tendancy to deny entry into the US on a whim, even if you have a valid visa. They can take your visa away any time they want, with no explanation and almost no recourse. Unfortunately, the more your physical appearance matches what the public has equated with "the terrorists", the more likely this is to happen. This is very sad, completely unfair, and illegal. But, it's almost impossible to prove and there really isn't anything you can do about it.

What you can do is apply to programs and not release your photo. This is a new feature of ERAS this year. Of course, programs could choose to not rank you after meeting you, but hopefully they'll be impressed enough to counter any concerns about visas etc.

 

[The Wanderer]

m

 

[ZonaRidicularis]

z

 

[The Wanderer]

m

 

[kwanny]

Dear aProgDirector,

Quick question about filters... Does that filter only apply to step 1 score or for both step 1 and 2? Meaning, if the filter is set at 235, and an applicant has <235 on step 1 but >235 on step 2, does he get filtered?

I'm asking, because I scored <235 on step 1, but scored 250+ on step 2. I'm just concerned that I will be screened out soley based on step 1 score even before they get a chance to review my entire app.

Thanks in advance!

 

[google_singh]

The Wanderer, I am a Sikh too( turban wearing and unshorn hair). I have released my smartest looking pic and i wont withdraw it and why would I. I feel I look damn smart in it. And I know so do u. As said by Zona, u wont want to be in a place where they will filter out just on the basis if one wears a turban and keeps unshorn hair.

I have my own identity and I am confident about it. Its all a part of your total personality. If a PD think if a turban wearing person= a terrorist, i think he is just ignorant. Not my fault, not his either, but I feel one should have a basic knowledge of such issues if one's appointed a PD.
But to forgo your identity or shy away from it or to hide is one of the things that I will perceive to be lack of confidence in my applicant if I were ever to become a PD ( long way to go, if ever...lol)


Have you seen the trailer of an upcoming movie called "ocean of pearls"
Search it on youtube or search in this forum itself. There are some excellent replies including Zonaridicularis and many others.

And as aProgDir very rightly said above, it's probably a part of sad reality, but in the end we can do nothing about it, can we? May be just educate.

Maybe AAMC or the allied regulatory orgs can sensitize by making screening of documentaries on mistaken identity , about cultural issues and ethics mandatory to all those who go a a long way in selecting the future workforce in not the just the health care sector but rather in all fields.

The wanderer, you have 1 iv which u can definitely convert. I have none yet, probably bcoz i have much worse credentials( in terms of scores) than yours,despite graduating from 2nd best med school of India.
Stay cool!

 

[Corn Dog]

Dear aProgDirector,

Quick question about filters... Does that filter only apply to step 1 score or for both step 1 and 2? Meaning, if the filter is set at 235, and an applicant has <235 on step 1 but >235 on step 2, does he get filtered?

I'm asking, because I scored <235 on step 1, but scored 250+ on step 2. I'm just concerned that I will be screened out soley based on step 1 score even before they get a chance to review my entire app.

Thanks in advance!

I've been wondering the same thing as well... I've seen people matching at top notch ophtho programs with sub-par step 1, but rocking step 2 scores (>250).

Many people on this forum, however, seem to be under the impression that if an applicant does not meet the cut-off with step 1 score, then he will be automatically screened off no matter what the step 2 score is. I want to be in the minority and disagree with everyone else. A superb step 2 score can make up for sub-par step 1 score, even at schools with a "cut-off."

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Dear aProgDirector,

Quick question about filters... Does that filter only apply to step 1 score or for both step 1 and 2? Meaning, if the filter is set at 235, and an applicant has <235 on step 1 but >235 on step 2, does he get filtered?

I'm asking, because I scored <235 on step 1, but scored 250+ on step 2. I'm just concerned that I will be screened out soley based on step 1 score even before they get a chance to review my entire app.

Thanks in advance!

"Filters" are created by each program. I can filter by Step 1 score, Step 2 score, Step 3 score (if present). I can filter by middle initial if I want (i.e. "Show me all applications where the middle name starts with something between J and Q, and who hasn't submitted a personal statement"). So, the answer is "it depends on the program". They can filter applications any way they want.

For example, let's say I want uber-USMLE scores, but I don't care whether they are Step 1 or Step 2. I can say "Show me everyone who got a Step 1 score > 240 OR a Step 2 score > 240". Or, I can say "Show me everyone who got ((Step 1 score > 240 OR Step 2 score > 240) AND (Step 1 Score > 200 AND Step 2 Score > 200))"

See what that last one does? Gives me anyone who scored >240 in Step 1 or 2, but disqualifies people who scored < 200 on either.

The possibilities are endless.

 

[northandponce]

"Show me everyone who got ((Step 1 score > 240 OR Step 2 score > 240)"

that must be frustrating for those with 239!

 

[Corn Dog]

"Show me everyone who got ((Step 1 score > 240 OR Step 2 score > 240)"

that must be frustrating for those with 239!

Actually, even those with 240!

 

[AmeriClerkships]

Sounds like another good study. "Relationship of Physical Attriactiveness to success in a residency training program". What happens if you actually find a positive or negative correlation? Wouldn't that be fun to explain on NPR.

On a different note, sad news: Stephen Colbert has dropped out of the race for president. Ahh well.

Thank you so much for all of the information you provided in this thread. It is very interesting for me and my organization (even if it is a couple years old)

on a different note....STEPHEN COLBERT IS HILARIOUS!!!

 

[gutonc]

Woo Hoo! Necro bump (my new favorite saying).

 

[jackieMD2007]

PDWS is posted on ERAS.... they can filter you out in ANY WAY THEY WANT! Citizenship, FACE PICTURES, USMLE ATTEMPTS, PUBLICATIONS, USMLE SCORES... whatever you want.

What I wish they would do is auto-email rejection to people when they filter them out.

Hi,
Program XXX thinks you suck too hard for you to qualify to be reviewed. Your $25 were happily used up. Good luck sucker!

Love it! Way better than the "we will keep your application on file" junk that we got during medical school application season

 

[jackieMD2007]

The PDWS overview on ERAS does not talk about all the possibilities... thanks for your help... well I honestly think that if ERAS makes filters they should return the 25 $... filters are an excuse for the program not to post their TRUE requirements on their website...hence the applicant is paying 25$ for his application to be automatically trashed? That is really unfair. Sounds funny, I know, but in my case I have three children to feed so it's not funny to be "filtered out" automatically and easily waste 500 $ that could be used to buy formula. If the programs are not going to review my application at all they should have posted on their website : we filter based on usmle score < 235, or > 4 publications , or no ugly people please...at least something that would prevent people to waste money , like minorities etc.

Do you think that for any job, in life, ever, that we are going to be told, upfront, what the subtle criteria are for the position?

Programs are looking for a lot of things including strong academic record, good USMLE, fits in well with the program, is professional, etc.

All you can do is put your best foot forward and go for it. We are not in control here.

(Also why would you apply to $500 worth of programs? That seems really excessive!)

 

[hot sauce]

(Also why would you apply to $500 worth of programs? That seems really excessive!)

$500 is not an usual amount to spend in some fields, particularly if you happen to be on the lower end of the USMLE scores or other metrics for the field you applying to.

I would agree if a program has a hard usmle minimum (or other requirement) they should post it but who knows how common it is for them to have a set minimum.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Just reminding readers of this thread that NONE of your application fees go to programs. All income from ERAS is kept by ERAS. So, ERAS says "for a fee, we deliver your application. No refunds if they reject you. Or if the program is closed. or not accepting applications this year". Programs get nothing, so owe you nothing.

 

[nedi292]

Dear Applicant:
Thank you so much for your interest in our program. We have reviewed your
application and would like to share our guidelines that pertain to graduates
of international medical schools.
Graduates of medical schools outside the United States and Canada must meet
the following qualifications:
1. A currently valid certificate from the Educations Commission for Foreign
Medical Graduates (ECFMG) prior to appointment OR
2. Have a full and unrestricted license to practice medicine in North Carolina
or in a US licensing jurisdiction in which they are in training and be
eligible for a full and unrestricted license to practice medicine in North
Carolina, AND

The international medical graduate applicant must also possess a current/valid
visa option or other status governed by the US Immigration Regulations to
participate in a GME program. (Please note, we do not sponsor any type of
visa.)
Completion of one (1) year in an ACGME accredited residency program is
STRONGLY preferred for international medical graduate applicants.
An international medical graduate must complete all other application
requirements required by MAHEC and the GME program.
Finally, the North Carolina Medical Board requires that physicians who are
graduates of schools that are not accredited by the LCME or the AOA (foreign
medical schools) must be individually certified by the Educational Commission
for Foreign Medical Graduates, have successfully completed at least three
years of accredited graduate medical training, and have passed the USMLE or
its equivalent to be eligible for application for full licensure.
Because you have not completed one year in an ACGME accredited residency
program we are not able to offer you an interview at this time.
I wish you the best in your pursuit of a residency training program that will
meet your needs.
Sincerely,

Blake ***an, M. D.
Director
MAHEC Family Medicine Residency Program
Assistant Professor of Family Medicine
UNC-CH School of Medicine





This is what the web page says:

International Medical Graduates

Special laws and regulations apply to international medical graduates who wish to enter the United States to undertake graduate medical education. MAHEC's policies and procedures regarding graduates of international medical schools comply with federal and state laws and regulations and MAHEC's commitment to graduate medical education.

Graduates of medical schools outside the United States and Canada must have a currently valid certificate from the Education Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG). Applicants must successfully pass both Step 1 (basic medical) and Step 2 (clinical knowledge) of the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE).

While MAHEC does not sponsor a visa, the international medical graduate applicant must also possess a current/valid visa option or other status governed by the US Immigration Regulations to participate in a GME program.

Finally, the North Carolina Medical Board requires that physicians who are graduates of schools that are not accredited by the LCME or the AOA (foreign medical schools) must be individually certified by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates, have successfully completed at least three years of accredited graduate medical training, and have passed the USMLE or its equivalent to be eligible for application for full licensure. An international medical graduate must complete all other application requirements required by MAHEC and the GME program.

My scores are all first attempt Step 1 81/199 2008, Step 2 86/209 2008, Step 3 79/194 2009, ECFMG sertificate, Graduation 1990, eastern Europe, almost 3 years residency in my home country, 2,5 years MS Neuroscience in Canada, 10 years research with publications and presentations, 4 US very good LORS, currently 6 months observership. Forgot to add that next year will be applying for US citizenship.


Any thought are welcome......

 

[Samoa]

It's actually redundant to say anything more than that you must be eligible for full licensure, as that already encompasses all the requirements they list. I suppose they could also add, "and get your own damn visa!" You know, just to make it all cozy and friendly.

I do think it's circular logic that you need three years of U.S. residency training in order to qualify for a U.S. residency. But the point is that unfortunately, no matter what your other qualifications, you're not eligible for full licensure here, and that's what they require.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I assume your anger / concern is over the email's disclaimer that 1) one year of GME experience in the US is "strongly suggested; 2) that because of lack of such GME experience, you are not being considered at all; and 3) That this was not disclosed on their website at all (the need for GME experience).

I don't have any helpful suggestions for you. It sucks, it would be better if the program was fully transparent with it's requirements. Perhaps those requirements have changed recently. Reagardless, there's no point in arguing, and you should simply move on.

 

[alittlestory]

it would be better if the program was fully transparent with it's requirements.

Forgive me for not having read the previous posts--- but aProgDir... I couldn't agree with you more.

Programs should realize how costly this is for applicants- rather than being "politically correct" I'm sure many of us applicants would prefer if they'd be blunt.

I.E. Save you $25, you don't have a chance because we dont take...
- FMG's or DO's
- USMLE <230
- West-Coast Residents...

etc. etc. ugh.

 

[gutonc]

Forgive me for not having read the previous posts--- but aProgDir... I couldn't agree with you more.

Programs should realize how costly this is for applicants- rather than being "politically correct" I'm sure many of us applicants would prefer if they'd be blunt.

I.E. Save you $25, you don't have a chance because we dont take...
- FMG's or DO's
- USMLE <230
- West-Coast Residents...

etc. etc. ugh.

You also obviously didn't read aPDs other post where he re-re-re-re-iterated that the grand total that programs make from each program application fee is $0. It's not that they're ignorant of the fact that it costs you (a pittance, relatively speaking) to apply to their program, it's just that, in the grand scheme of things, they don't really care. I agree that any hard cutoffs/restrictions should be made public, but, compared to the total number of programs out there (in all specialties), the number with such hard limits on applicants is relatively small. Sure, most top tier programs probably won't interview a bunch of <220 IMGs, but they might interview a couple who have other redeeming characteristics.

I'm a huge believer in the overall good that ERAS and NRMP do WRT to the matching process in general, but one thing the current system has done is somewhat absolve applicants of any "skin in the game" so to speak. All it takes is a high enough limit on your VISA card and a penchant for carpal tunnel syndrome, and one can vomit their application onto a hojillion programs, the only criterion being "is this program on ERAS." Then, when the inevitable rejections start rolling in (assuming you're not a 250+, AOA, PhD from Hopkins applying to Psych), people play the "filter" card.

The reality is that the vast majority of filters are fluid. If a program gets 100 apps from those 250+ Hopkins kids this year, they might not interview any DOs or <220 Step I folks. But the year before they only got 15 of those "stellar" apps so they interviewed a bunch of DOs, a couple of FMGs and a few <220 folks who had other intriguing things on their app. Are they being disingenuous by not putting a "no DO/FMG/<220" statement on their website? I don't think so.