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Is it possible/how long would it take to complete an MD program AFTER finishing off the Pharm.D?
thanks
thanks
BMBiology said:I think it is a waste of timing getting an pharm.d. then an m.d (4 years of pharmacy, 4 years of medicine, then at least another 3 years of residency = 11 years!!). I dont think you are going to impress medical school admissions either by getting a pharm.d. because it only shows your indecisiveness.
If you want to go into medicine but don't have the grades or experiences, then I would suggest that you apply for a post bac program, get some experiences, do well on the mcat, then apply to medical schools. This is a better route. Not only will you be doing a disservice to yourself and the profession by going to pharmacy school first, but it will not help you get into medical schools.
BTW, a family physician makes as much as a pharmacist in california after malpractice insurance.
SomeGuy said:Applying as a pharmacist also shows that you're not really in it for the money (not in the short term anyway), but rather in for more humanitarian reasons.
SomeGuy said:Well, where I am, pharmacy is a 4-year program and requires just 1 year of prerequisites, while MD/dental requires at least 3 years of schooling to get a shot of acceptance. Some places are already going to require 4 years to apply.
tupac_don said:No wrong, going to pharmacy school will help you get into medical school. Especially if you get solid grades in pharmacy school. Why many people say that pharmacy does not help is that on general people do worse in pharmacy school so their avg drops. At that point they are not competitive with a 3.0 avg against someone from undergrad with 3.9. But someone with a pharm D and a solid avg like 3.7+ in pharmacy school and a decent MCAT say 30 is a shoe in for med school. After all you are just building upon your knowledge. Plus with a pharmacy degree you have a solid job in your hands when you are done. If for some reason or other med school does not pan out, you still have your pharmacy professional degree. With Post Bacc you pretty much have just a good base to go on do something else, get in another professional school or go and do PhD or Masters.
Job of a pharmacist is definetly less stressful, and you have more free time. But it really depends what you want. I hear plumbers make a pretty good living. But I don't see people rushing into that business. In the end its about preference interest, and like outside of money only. Plus you cannot say that someone is doing a deservice to pharmacy profession if anything he is doing a service to the profession b/c after pharmacy school he will be indoctrinated in one respect in med school in another. You are bound to retain certain beliefs from your first profession (pharmacy). As well on general pharm D's who went on to get an MD are more receptive to pharmacy and actively support it once they become attendings. So I completely disagree with you I think it enchances you professionally and it helps both professions to have an individual who is versatile like that.
Although I somewhat agree with you that purely from financial standpoint of view it might be a "waste" of time to get pharm D and then MD. Since your greatest earning potential is around mid 20's to early 30's and a pharmacist who starts at 22-23 can amass significant wealth making 100,000+/year, oppose to an MD who starts out 27-28 or more typically 33-34.
Just my 2 cents.
However, if you're doing it for money, there are probably better ways to spend your time (Finance, Law, Actuarial, R&D) than medicine.
how do you plan on gaining more control?chedrick said:I'm starting my 3rd year of pharmacy school this fall and am going to be applying to medical school during my 4th year of rotations. I've always known I wanted to go to pharmacy and medical school. I've really enjoyed pharmacy school, but be prepared to take extra courses if you decide to go the pharm/med route. My pharmacy school didn't require physics, so I've had to take 2 semesters during the summer. I also have taken extra biology courses since some of the medical schools wouldn't accept by medical based biology (hist, immuno, phys, microbio).
Working in a pharmacy has made me want to go to medical school that much more. Not because I don't like pharmacy (because I do), but more due to the fact that I want more control over whats happening to my patient. I want to be a family practice doctor is an underserved area. I want to be able to give my patients the best treatment as well as be cost effective. I spend half my day calling offices and insurances trying to get coverage and changes for expensive meds that could have cheaper alternatives that are just as effective. How can you expect a patient to be compliant if they can't afford to buy the med? Don't give a patient samples for 2 months then say hey you can now pay $150 a month of your social security, sorry the drug rep didn't come by this week. Sorry, I will get off my soap box, bad day at work. Even if I do graduate from medical school, I'll always be proud to be a pharmacist.
I'll end with, do what you want, its your money, your life, your degree(s).
Managing his own patients.Caverject said:how do you plan on gaining more control?
how do you plan on gaining more control?
chedrick said:I probably shouldn't have used the word control. I like the idea that I would have the ability to diagnose as well as prescribe for my patients. I don't know if I'm making any sense now.
bbmuffin said:we have a student doing a joint pharmd/PA program
DownonthePharm said:The idea of going to medical school for onehundredzillion years after my pharmD is frightening but that actually sounds like it wouldnt be too bad. You could be your own complete clinic.
lord999 said:Ah, unfortunately not. Pharmacists have had traditionally the lowest admission rates of ANY first degree into medicine (~33% of the ALREADY self-selected candidates). I will not comment whether it is a grades issue or a profession issue. I can say that certain universities like Michigan have an explicit rule about applying to another professional school when professional training was recently acquired.
I really don't have an opinion on the subject, but be really prepared for an interesting time. I know at least Pilot went through both programs. I personally do not see any incongruency between wanting to be a pharmacist and a physician. However, if you're doing it for money, there are probably better ways to spend your time (Finance, Law, Actuarial, R&D) than medicine. If you want real power over the (I want to be the one who intervenes), then you really don't have a choice than to go to medicine. Pharmacists are and will still be auxilaries in terms of patient care. They don't initiate care, they only followthrough.
I'm personally proud of my training as a pharmacist. Originally, I did seriously consider medicine, but I found out that I'm also too scared to be the one who intervenes. The responsibility is just not something that I can shoulder...
OSURxgirl said:What is wrong with changing your mind? Isn't changing your mind a sign that your education is working or has worked? I find it interesting that many people on these forums have a PhD (5 to 7 years of grad school) and want to go to med school and everyone seems to support them, but if a pharmacist or nurse wants to go to med school, everyone attacks them. Would you rather have an extra disgruntled and unhappy pharmacist in the workforce, or would you want that person to follow their newly discovered passion and actually make a difference?
tupac_don said:No wrong, going to pharmacy school will help you get into medical school.
OSURxgirl said:a dually trained pharmacist-physician would be more of an asset to patients than a liability. Money would be saved, patient time would be saved, and patient outcomes would be better if more physicians had pharmacy backgrounds.
bbmuffin said:i honestly don't care if a student "takes away" a spot from another who "really wants to practice"
BMBiology said:I am not saying it is impossible to go into medicine after pharmacy school but it is simply not a practical and ethnical route.
chedrick said:Unethical? I told my pharmacy admissions counselors before I was even accepted that I wanted to be a pharmacist and a physician, and they didn't have any problem with the idea. I've never heard anyone refer to it as unethical before. I know pharmacists who are lawyers, professors, scientists, physicians, managers, authors, and stay at home dads/moms. Just because they don't practice is a traditional fashion doesn't mean they don't respect their education and the profession of pharmacy.
BMBiology said:Too bad you dont care much about the profession. I wonder those who left your school, did they even care about the profession or they just wanted to use it as a stepping stone? Can you even tell the difference? Probably not.
haven't lumped them in the same groupBMBiology said:I dont understand why you are clustering people who cannot make it with people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone, and explain why you would prefer the latter. These 2 groups have nothing to do with each other and doesn't dismiss the fact that people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone are hurting the profession.
I dont understand your rationality. I am not going to explain why your rationality is not practical or even why it doesn't even make sense. I dont have the time.
bbmuffin said:haven't lumped them in the same group
i'm saying i personally would prefer people in pharmacy school who can actually make it through the curriculum.
I'm also saying that I don't care if people apply to pharmacy school to use it as a stepping stone. Its a long road a head of them but if that's what they want to do then fine.... The people who deserve to be in pharmacy school will still be there.
I honestly don't see how people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone hurts the profession.
Are you saying that because it "takes up someone else's seat?"
or are you saying that because in your experience, since they are not passionate about the profession of pharmacy, they are not as successful as they thought they would be and will probably not get into med school.. forcing them to become pharmacists?
In my opinion this "stepping stone" is not used all that often... perhaps i'm wrong...
If you are really concerned about the profession of pharmacy and its future how about taking on the people who are just going into pharmacy for the money?
and the extraordinarly apathetic group of people that are currently in pharmacy school (if you don't know any i can point you towards a few hundred).
How about the current pharmacists who complain all day long but when it comes to actually doing something about it they shy away?
Yes the minority of people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone do fall into this category for the profession but the vast majority of this group is not going to med school.
OSURxgirl said:I may not want to do it to myself and other may not want to do it themselves. But why be mad at people who choose to do it? I think it is a minority of people who use Pharm school as a "stepping stone". I think many decide in Pharmacy school or beyond that what they really want is medicine. Either way, you have to view it in a more positive light...yes, someone may be taking away a spot from someone who "truly" wants to be a pharmacist, but it can only help patients to have MDs out there with pharmacy training. What about all the screw ups in my class who "truly" wanted to be pharmacists and partied and failed out their first year? They technically took away spots from people who would have finished the program, but I don't see anyone crucifying them for their lack of ambition. Instead, people that have the incredible ambition it would take to finish pharmacy and medical training are being tried. I don't get it.