Getting in with weak LOR's

[FeenyFee]

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LOR's make me nervous. Call me paranoid (I am a little), but it unnerves me that a weak LOR can throw off hard work and such...

Has anyone has an experience where something negative was said in your LOR and brought up in an interview or file review? How did you deal with it?

 

[pp9]

LOR's make me nervous. Call me paranoid (I am a little), but it unnerves me that a weak LOR can throw off hard work and such...

Has anyone has an experience where something negative was said in your LOR and brought up in an interview or file review? How did you deal with it?

I haven't had anything bad said about me (that I was told about 😛), but I did hear about a 'weak' letter after my first cycle. A vet I had worked for only about 3-4 months with agreed to write me a letter. It turns out that she submitted only a few sentences. That was brought up during my file reviews. It didn't break my application, but it definitely didn't help.

LORs usually aren't a huge part of the application. Having good letters is great, but I don't think a school is going to compare letters across individuals to make decisions like they do grades, experience, etc. However, if your evaluator did end up submitting a nasty letter, I would imagine that would raise some big red flags. I don't think letters like that are submitted very often, so it would be a bigger deal. If someone is going to be rude enough to agree to write you a letter, then make it a bad one, I would assume that you and the writer don't have the best relationship to begin with. Idk. I would expect someone to tell me that they don't want to write me a letter before they write a bad one.

 

[Lupin21]

LORs usually aren't a huge part of the application.

I strongly disagree with this. Your character is a major deciding factor as to why a school chooses one person over another, especially when everyone is so close with stats in most cases. Picking the people to write LORs is one of the most important things in an application because these people's objective opinion on what you bring to the table is highly valuable.

 

[dyachei]

I would expect someone to tell me that they don't want to write me a letter before they write a bad one.

Nice people do this. Not all people are nice people.

 

[pp9]

I strongly disagree with this. Your character is a major deciding factor as to why a school chooses one person over another, especially when everyone is so close with stats in most cases. Picking the people to write LORs is one of the most important things in an application because these people's objective opinion on what you bring to the table is highly valuable.

Eh, I've been told differently. One of my file reviews was done by the dean, and I was stressing out about that one letter. He said that everyone's letters sound the same, and only the bad ones tend to stand out. I completely believe that. Heck, some people use the same letters every year and just change names (I'm looking at you, orgo prof). Of course some schools are going to care more/less about certain aspects of the application, but I feel that interviews are more valuable in determining character. We already know that someone can look like the ideal human being on paper, and be the absolute opposite in person.

Nice people do this. Not all people are nice people.

Wait, there are mean people out there? Another reason on my list of why I should stay in bed all day.

 

[Trilt]

I'm pretty sure one of my LORs was a significant part of me getting into vet school. No idea what else would've tipped me over to "accepted," as I was not a super strong applicant and expected to have to apply a second time. It was a really excited, really fabulous letter that I honestly blush a little to think of even now.

 

[Lupin21]

EH, I've been told differently. One of my file reviews was done by the dean, and I was stressing out about that one letter. He said that everyone's letters sound the same, and only the bad ones tend to stand out. I completely believe that. Heck, some people use the same letters every year and just change names (I'm looking at you, orgo prof). Of course some schools are going to care more/less about certain aspects of the application, but I feel that interviews are more valuable in determining character. We already know that someone can look like the ideal human being on paper, and be the absolute opposite in person.

Wait, there are mean people out there? Another reason on my list of why I should stay in bed all day.

Right, meaning that complacency means you get no advantage and yet again have no way of standing out. Imagine if people actually chose their LOR's with care and those people writing letters put in effort because they truly believed the person they were writing about deserved to get in.

 

[DVMDream]

Schools commented on my LORs for every file review that I had. They actually asked why I didn't have letters from the vets I had just recently started working for (only a few months) the one year... (It was because I thought the vets I had worked with for 5 years would write better letters). They stated as a recommendation to get a letter from one of the vets that I had started working with that year...

They do consider them and a good/great LOR will go a long way. These are people who have spent more than 20-30 minutes interviewing you. They know your strengths/weaknesses. They know your character. They know how well you work with and without pressure... Etc, etc.

LORs are very important. I wouldn't underestimate them.

 

[FeenyFee]

There is a surgical vet tech that got me into shadowing a surgical vet she works for and they are both super awesome and we talk a lot and I actually help around with basic things like making surgical packs and cleaning up. The vet tech is teaching me a lot and sharing a lot of her wisdom and we are really starting to get to know each other.

Would getting a recommendation from a surgical vet tech with 10+ years experience be good? I don't see that a lot so I wasn't sure.

Also, do schools like to see a variety in recs? I work in a 2 doctor practice and work equally with both doctors. Should I only choose one?

 

[dyachei]

Eh, I've been told differently. One of my file reviews was done by the dean, and I was stressing out about that one letter. He said that everyone's letters sound the same, and only the bad ones tend to stand out. I completely believe that. Heck, some people use the same letters every year and just change names (I'm looking at you, orgo prof). Of course some schools are going to care more/less about certain aspects of the application, but I feel that interviews are more valuable in determining character. We already know that someone can look like the ideal human being on paper, and be the absolute opposite in person.

Wait, there are mean people out there? Another reason on my list of why I should stay in bed all day.

This indicates to me they are VERY important. a bad one can keep you from getting in. if they were not that important, it'd be like getting a crappy GRE score at a school that doesn't weigh it very highly.

 

[FeenyFee]

I haven't had anything bad said about me (that I was told about 😛), but I did hear about a 'weak' letter after my first cycle. A vet I had worked for only about 3-4 months with agreed to write me a letter. It turns out that she submitted only a few sentences. That was brought up during my file reviews. It didn't break my application, but it definitely didn't help.

LORs usually aren't a huge part of the application. Having good letters is great, but I don't think a school is going to compare letters across individuals to make decisions like they do grades, experience, etc. However, if your evaluator did end up submitting a nasty letter, I would imagine that would raise some big red flags. I don't think letters like that are submitted very often, so it would be a bigger deal. If someone is going to be rude enough to agree to write you a letter, then make it a bad one, I would assume that you and the writer don't have the best relationship to begin with. Idk. I would expect someone to tell me that they don't want to write me a letter before they write a bad one.

Are file reviews free?

 

[pp9]

Right, meaning that complacency means you get no advantage and yet again have no way of standing out. Imagine if people actually chose their LOR's with care and those people writing letters put in effort because they truly believed the person they were writing about deserved to get in.

I understand where you're coming from. Ideally, LORs would always be written from scratch and always high quality. I just don't think it is always that way.

I guess I should clarify what I meant by "huge part": They aren't always weighed very heavily in the formulas used. That's certainly not saying that they aren't important, it's saying that you can have incredible letters and still not get in for one reason or another because a school didn't feel that incredible letters made up for a lack in experience, lower grades, whatever. I think it was Ohio State that told me LORs make up 5% of their decision. Then someone from another school tells me they all sound pretty much the same and only remember bad letters out of the stack due to their infrequency. Michigan even says on their website that their final decision is based solely on grades, the interview, and their supplemental. Letters just aren't of huge importance to every school. Like I said, a bad one will always raise flags. Good ones sometimes get lost in the mix.

Are file reviews free?

Yes, definitely!! The school somehow advertises how to schedule one when rejections start rolling out. If not, you could email them.

 

[Lupin21]

I understand where you're coming from. Ideally, LORs would always be written from scratch and always high quality. I just don't think it is always that way.

I guess I should clarify what I meant by "huge part": They aren't always weighed very heavily in the formulas used. That's certainly not saying that they aren't important, it's saying that you can have incredible letters and still not get in for one reason or another because a school didn't feel that incredible letters made up for a lack in experience, lower grades, whatever. I think it was Ohio State that told me LORs make up 5% of their decision. Then someone from another school tells me they all sound pretty much the same and only remember bad letters out of the stack due to their infrequency. Michigan even says on their website that their final decision is based solely on grades, the interview, and their supplemental. Letters just aren't of huge importance to every school. Like I said, a bad one will always raise flags. Good ones sometimes get lost in the mix.

Yes, definitely!! The school somehow advertises how to schedule one when rejections start rolling out. If not, you could email them.

I am well aware most letters are exact duplicates of each other, which is why I say choosing a writer that will be unique and write an excellent letter gets those last points that may be the deciding factor in one person getting in over another. The majority of applicants are like most letters, indistinguishable from one another. Tis why people don't understand why someone who posted their stats in the accepted thread matches their own to a T, and yet one didn't get in. Why risk it in not bothering with the LOR section when all it takes is to make an excellent impression on someone and ask a favor like writing a letter exemplifying the worth they see in you?

While some schools don't necessarily look that closely at them, it is no reason to throw away a chance to stand out. My letters were pretty unique and it helped get me the interview from paper to where I could stand out in person.

 

[pp9]

I am well aware most letters are exact duplicates of each other, which is why I say choosing a writer that will be unique and write an excellent letter gets those last points that may be the deciding factor in one person getting in over another. The majority of applicants are like most letters, indistinguishable from one another. Tis why people don't understand why someone who posted their stats in the accepted thread matches their own to a T, and yet one didn't get in. Why risk it in not bothering with the LOR section when all it takes is to make an excellent impression on someone and ask a favor like writing a letter exemplifying the worth they see in you?

While some schools don't necessarily look that closely at them, it is no reason to throw away a chance to stand out. My letters were pretty unique and it helped get me the interview from paper to where I could stand out in person.

I never said someone shouldn't do their best to figure out who would write the most flattering letter or to blow off the section altogether. The OP was just worried about getting screwed.

 

[yugen]

Nice people do this. Not all people are nice people.

I've actually had this happen to me for a job I needed a LOR for years ago. When asking for a letter, I always say the obligatory, "Would you be willing to review me positively for this position.." and he had accepted. I was also under the assumption we were on good terms; I had recently been invited to his house with the rest of our research group for a celebration. For what turned out to be reasons political, this person wrote a poor letter and suggested another student in my cohort the position. The recruiter stopped taking my calls and never responded to my e-mails. The PI who wrote the letter even pretended to be sympathetic when I spoke to him about how I hadn't heard from them.

The other student hadn't even applied yet, nor was aware of the opportunity -- but was working in the position shortly after. I was friends with the student who landed the job and he told me off hand how he received the position, unknowing that I had reached for it first.

Since then I have a similar paranoia as the OP, but I learned how to trust again! 😀 I learnt a lot from the experience too. I, before that experience, had been pretty unaware exactly how political academia can be. Thank goodness this was before I applied for the DVM program!

I'm sure a lot of people have similar stories...

 

[Lupin21]

I never said someone shouldn't do their best to figure out who would write the most flattering letter or to blow off the section altogether. The OP was just worried about getting screwed.

And you said they didn't matter. So I disagreed with that. Any negative items in an application has the chance to move an applicant out of a spot and let someone without that issue in.

 

[hazelmoo]

I've actually had this happen to me for a job I needed a LOR for years ago. When asking for a letter, I always say the obligatory, "Would you be willing to review me positively for this position.." and he had accepted. I was also under the assumption we were on good terms; I had recently been invited to his house with the rest of our research group for a celebration. For what turned out to be reasons political, this person wrote a poor letter and suggested another student in my cohort the position. The recruiter stopped taking my calls and never responded to my e-mails. The PI who wrote the letter even pretended to be sympathetic when I spoke to him about how I hadn't heard from them.

The other student hadn't even applied yet, nor was aware of the opportunity -- but was working in the position shortly after. I was friends with the student who landed the job and he told me off hand how he received the position, unknowing that I had reached for it first.

Since then I have a similar paranoia as the OP, but I learned how to trust again! 😀 I learnt a lot from the experience too. I, before that experience, had been pretty unaware exactly how political academia can be. Thank goodness this was before I applied for the DVM program!

I'm sure a lot of people have similar stories...[/QUOTE
Omg. That is horrible... I'd be mortified :/

 

[FeenyFee]

I've actually had this happen to me for a job I needed a LOR for years ago. When asking for a letter, I always say the obligatory, "Would you be willing to review me positively for this position.." and he had accepted. I was also under the assumption we were on good terms; I had recently been invited to his house with the rest of our research group for a celebration. For what turned out to be reasons political, this person wrote a poor letter and suggested another student in my cohort the position. The recruiter stopped taking my calls and never responded to my e-mails. The PI who wrote the letter even pretended to be sympathetic when I spoke to him about how I hadn't heard from them.

The other student hadn't even applied yet, nor was aware of the opportunity -- but was working in the position shortly after. I was friends with the student who landed the job and he told me off hand how he received the position, unknowing that I had reached for it first.

Since then I have a similar paranoia as the OP, but I learned how to trust again! 😀 I learnt a lot from the experience too. I, before that experience, had been pretty unaware exactly how political academia can be. Thank goodness this was before I applied for the DVM program!

Oh wow, i'm sorry that happened to you. What a prat!

The vet I work for is just a naturally critical person and sometimes snarky but not in a severe way if that makes sense. Like if I'm trying to control a bouncing dog and it takes me a few seconds, she will say something like "it would be helpful if you held the dog." I normally just smile and apologize but I worry that she sees me as incompetent.

 

[pp9]

And you said they didn't matter. So I disagreed with that. Any negative items in an application has the chance to move an applicant out of a spot and let someone without that issue in.

I didn't, actually. I literally said that a bad letter can raise a ton of flags, but whatever. Not really worth discussing any further.

Oh wow, i'm sorry that happened to you. What a prat!

The vet I work for is just a naturally critical person and sometimes snarky but not in a severe way if that makes sense. Like if I'm trying to control a bouncing dog and it takes me a few seconds, she will say something like "it would be helpful if you held the dog." I normally just smile and apologize but I worry that she sees me as incompetent.

It's hard to tell without knowing this person myself or hearing the tone, but that sounds a lot like sarcasm to me, not necessarily criticism. Sarcasm isn't an excuse for being a a**, but if the vet says stuff like this a lot, she may not realize that she comes off as unpleasant. Or she is aware and just doesn't care 😛

 

[Jess Monster]

I think they make everyone a little nervous. It's the one part of the application you can't completely control in the end. You can pick the people, but you most likely won't know the final content of the LOR or be sure that it will get it submitted on time. In my experiences, sometimes the people you think you have the strongest rapports with will disappoint you the most by flaking out, saying no, or writing a mediocre LOR. That's life though.

I always give my writers ample opportunity to say no and to back out before it's too late. I also always have an alternate that I contact. I offer my personal statement and resume to everyone and, if they're local, I put it out there that I'm willing to travel to speak with them face to face if we haven't worked together in a few years. Those who say "no" usually do it quickly and then I move on. It's hard not to sometimes agonize and wonder why they aren't willing to help you but that's their prerogative.

Luckily, I've had mostly okay to good LOR's. I've actually been asked to write the LOR drafts for a few years for various professors and former supervisors. Others I've asked haven't had a lot of experience writing recommendations and have asked me to provide specific information about how I'd like it written and what types of things should be mentioned. I've never been in the situation in which I've had a negative LOR submitted to VMCAS or an internship. I've heard of it happening, but I still firmly believe that a person who writes a negative LOR and sabotages a student's application for school or work is probably a sociopath and definitely an dingus. The silver lining is that you can let that bridge burn.

 

[yugen]

Oh wow, i'm sorry that happened to you. What a prat!

The vet I work for is just a naturally critical person and sometimes snarky but not in a severe way if that makes sense. Like if I'm trying to control a bouncing dog and it takes me a few seconds, she will say something like "it would be helpful if you held the dog." I normally just smile and apologize but I worry that she sees me as incompetent.

Yeah, it was a bummer. Like I said, I wised up after that and now I'm here. 🙂

Like you say, it's anxiogenic to put your trajectory in the hands of someone else. You can't control what they write, really. But, you can control what they see. So, keep working hard and take their constructive criticism positively. It's all you can do.

 

[Lupin21]

I didn't, actually. I literally said that a bad letter can raise a ton of flags, but whatever. Not really worth discussing any further.

You know, you need to be careful in the advice you give. I do not think what you have said in this thread helps anyone worrying about their LORs. This particular ending to our discussion is also a red flag in my mind. I remember ending disagreements with "whatever" when I was a petulant 12 year old who didn't have a better capacity for defending my thoughts. You may be in a weird mood or something, but I think you need to take a step back as what I am saying here is important.

LOR's are a big part of life. You need them to get into professional school, you will need them to apply for internships, residency, and anytime you apply for a job. The better people do in judging who these letters should come from, the better position in advancing their career they will be.

 

[shawarmafan]

.

 

[pp9]

You know, you need to be careful in the advice you give. I do not think what you have said in this thread helps anyone worrying about their LORs. This particular ending to our discussion is also a red flag in my mind. I remember ending disagreements with "whatever" when I was a petulant 12 year old who didn't have a better capacity for defending my thoughts. You may be in a weird mood or something, but I think you need to take a step back as what I am saying here is important.

LOR's are a big part of life. You need them to get into professional school, you will need them to apply for internships, residency, and anytime you apply for a job. The better people do in judging who these letters should come from, the better position in advancing their career they will be.

I'm the one in the weird mood, yet you reply with that? No one is attempting to make you feel unimportant here. I find that continuing to try and bicker with someone who clearly tried to end the conversation on a peaceful note far more of a "red flag" than someone saying "whatever, I'm gonna move on now." If you'd like to continue to discuss, feel free to message me. Again, I don't feel that there's a point to this conversation when you're putting words in my mouth and now claiming you are in the position to compare me to a "petulent 12 year old." You say I'm being unhelpful, yet you use this thread to start an argument. Seriously, if you want to talk, message me about it. There truly is no point in fighting on this thread.

 

[KCgophervet]

So last year I was on a committee that doled out scholarships to international students to attend the SAVMA Symposium. They all had letters of rec and honestly those letters would make or break some of our decisions. We had a few students from one particular school who all had the same person write* them a letter of recommendation. All the letter writer did was change the name of the student. All of those students got a red flag because of it, because of a letter that said absolutely nothing unique about them and clearly had zero actual experience with any of these people (and honestly could not be that bright since he sent the same letter for the same scholarship 4ish times about 4 different applicants). While my story isn't about vet school admissions, I can see letters of rec making or breaking an application very easily.

*edit: wow was that an embarrassing typo!

 

[Lupin21]

I'm the one in the weird mood, yet you reply with that? No one is attempting to make you feel unimportant here. I find that continuing to try and bicker with someone who clearly tried to end the conversation on a peaceful note far more of a "red flag" than someone saying "whatever, I'm gonna move on now." If you'd like to continue to discuss, feel free to message me. Again, I don't feel that there's a point to this conversation when you're putting words in my mouth and now claiming you are in the position to compare me to a "petulent 12 year old." You say I'm being unhelpful, yet you use this thread to start an argument. Seriously, if you want to talk, message me about it. There truly is no point in fighting on this thread.

No I am done. You have missed the point of my post and I acknowledge that you will likely not with any more discussion, here or elsewhere. Have a nice evening.

 

[Cephal0pod]

I was extremely careful about who I asked to write my LORs - you want to be very, very certain that the people who are writing them are firmly in your camp, as well as able/willing to specifically and enthusiastically (!!) endorse you in written form. A fancy title doesn't go very far if the person doesn't know you well and/or writes you a lukewarm letter.

Future applicants who may be reading this: it does matter, choose wisely.

 

[pp9]

So last year I was on a committee that doled out scholarships to international students to attend the SAVMA Symposium. They all had letters of rec and honestly those letters would make or break some of our decisions. We had a few students from one particular school who all had the same person right them a letter of recommendation. All the letter writer did was change the name of the student. All of those students got a red flag because of it, because of a letter that said absolutely nothing unique about them and clearly had zero actual experience with any of these people (and honestly could not be that bright since he sent the same letter for the same scholarship 4ish times about 4 different applicants). While my story isn't about vet school admissions, I can see letters of rec making or breaking an application very easily.

One of my pre-vet friends was in a similar situation, except that the prof forgot to change the names in the letter when he submitted it. I think he left in one or two incorrect names within the body of the letter. I think the schools kinda shrugged it off because she was accepted to two, but still. It's unfortunate that a duplicated letter can mean bad news for the student. For all I know, they felt really close with their prof and worked with them quite a lot. The professor just dropped the ball.

 

[KCgophervet]

One of my pre-vet friends was in a similar situation, except that the prof forgot to change the names in the letter when he submitted it. I think he left in one or two incorrect names within the body of the letter. I think the schools kinda shrugged it off because she was accepted to two, but still. It's unfortunate that a duplicated letter can mean bad news for the student. For all I know, they felt really close with their prof and worked with them quite a lot. The professor just dropped the ball.

Wow that is awful! I honestly can't imagine being on that end of it. I have no idea what my letter writers wrote, but I never needed to find out luckily since I got into my IS.

 

[pp9]

Wow that is awful! I honestly can't imagine being on that end of it. I have no idea what my letter writers wrote, but I never needed to find out luckily since I got into my IS.

If I remember correctly, one of the schools brought it up in an interview. It wasn't brought up as a red flag, more of a "Lol, did you know Dr. so-and-so mixed up your names?" She said she was completely mortified and didn't know what to say, but I think they assumed he got his letters mixed up (not that he was reusing letters) and she just moved on with the interview. I can't imagine, honestly. I don't know the content of my letters either, but I was tempted to have access to them the second time around to see if there were any repeats. I don't think any of us would be to thrilled to find out that our letter had been submitted for 50 other people over the years.

 

[FeenyFee]

I understand where you're coming from. Ideally, LORs would always be written from scratch and always high quality. I just don't think it is always that way.

I guess I should clarify what I meant by "huge part": They aren't always weighed very heavily in the formulas used. That's certainly not saying that they aren't important, it's saying that you can have incredible letters and still not get in for one reason or another because a school didn't feel that incredible letters made up for a lack in experience, lower grades, whatever. I think it was Ohio State that told me LORs make up 5% of their decision. Then someone from another school tells me they all sound pretty much the same and only remember bad letters out of the stack due to their infrequency. Michigan even says on their website that their final decision is based solely on grades, the interview, and their supplemental. Letters just aren't of huge importance to every school. Like I said, a bad one will always raise flags. Good ones sometimes get lost in the mix.

Yes, definitely!! The school somehow advertises how to schedule one when rejections start rolling out. If not, you could email them.

Thanks pinkpuppy9! 🙂

 

[Devastating]

Good lord, I never thought that people actually accepting a LOR request and then taking the time to write a BAD letter was a thing 😵 yyyikes.

On a semi-unrelated note, do your LORs from the previous cycle remain in VMCAS? I thought I remember reading that they expire/become invalid after a certain amount of years (so you could e.g. save a rec entry from one person and acquire new ones to replace others) or did I make this up? I really, really hate requesting a LOR multiple times from the same person...ahh, the stresses of depending on other people's responses.

 

[WildZoo]

Good lord, I never thought that people actually accepting a LOR request and then taking the time to write a BAD letter was a thing 😵 yyyikes.

On a semi-unrelated note, do your LORs from the previous cycle remain in VMCAS? I thought I remember reading that they expire/become invalid after a certain amount of years (so you could e.g. save a rec entry from one person and acquire new ones to replace others) or did I make this up? I really, really hate requesting a LOR multiple times from the same person...ahh, the stresses of depending on other people's responses.

In previous years they had to be resubmitted each cycle, but its possible they changed that.

 

[battie]

Nope, didn't change it. You could reuse the ETS PPI that CSU and OhSU used, but that expires this year and won't be used again.

 

[FeenyFee]

Good lord, I never thought that people actually accepting a LOR request and then taking the time to write a BAD letter was a thing 😵 yyyikes.

On a semi-unrelated note, do your LORs from the previous cycle remain in VMCAS? I thought I remember reading that they expire/become invalid after a certain amount of years (so you could e.g. save a rec entry from one person and acquire new ones to replace others) or did I make this up? I really, really hate requesting a LOR multiple times from the same person...ahh, the stresses of depending on other people's responses.

Yes

 

[xTineTH]

How many of you chose the option to review the letters of recommendation after they were submitted? Personally, I had waived my right to see them because I had though that it shows that you trust that your writer will be completely honest. But now that this topic has come up, I'm very curious as to whether I received mediocre or very good letters.

 

[yugen]

How many of you chose the option to review the letters of recommendation after they were submitted? Personally, I had waived my right to see them because I had though that it shows that you trust that your writer will be completely honest. But now that this topic has come up, I'm very curious as to whether I received mediocre or very good letters.

Yeah, I was always under the impression that reviewing them made them worth less in some way. I didn't review any of mine.

 

[pp9]

How many of you chose the option to review the letters of recommendation after they were submitted? Personally, I had waived my right to see them because I had though that it shows that you trust that your writer will be completely honest. But now that this topic has come up, I'm very curious as to whether I received mediocre or very good letters.

When I was applying, it was my understanding that asking for access to them may cause your writer to alter the content of the letter (probably to make it better), or at least this is what VMCAS told me. I guess they assume that keeping your letters under wraps allows the writer to be fully honest (not that you trust them to be honest, if that makes sense). I think asking to see them is worth it if you expect to be reapplying. Hopefully you wouldn't be, but it can guide you to choose better letters next time.

 

[battie]

When I did my file review with CSU the first time, the dean at the time actually told me that my letter from my professor was awesome but my letter from the vet was just meh since she wrote me the letter as a last minute thing since the clinic fired the vet I had been shadowing for the most part. CSU told me that while the letter was in no way bad, it also wasn't phenomenal. The dean told me that I made it pretty far along in the admissions that year. But the combination of a a meh letter with a couple other little factors caused me to not make it in. Would a better letter have saved my application? It's really hard to say (according to CSU). But it definitely wouldn't hurt.

 

[Lupin21]

There is a divide in the thoughts whether letters should be visible to the applicant option. Younger people tend to think they should be able to see the letters so they can pick and choose which ones to submit. Older folk tend to think that this bias weakens the letter due to influencing what the writer has to say, such as a fear that being critical may end up in a student's anger towards them etc.

LORs, as I have said before, are meant to be an objective assessment of a person's abilities. A gushing letter is likely regarded as suspect because everyone has flaws. The letter should take note of what an individual strengths are and what they are improving upon. The ability to adapt and learn with an open mind should be touched on. I think if a student refuses to let a letter remain confidential, the writer will not be as objective as they should be.

In other words, I do not agree with clicking to option to see letters. This is where knowing the people writing your letters should be a learning opportunity. Many writers will offer to let the person see what they have written anyway, but I don't think it should be asked up front. There are numerous threads on this topic in the pre-med forum for more interesting discussions on the matter if anyone should like to see it rehashed on that side. 🙂

 

[battie]

LORs, as I have said before, are meant to be an objective assessment of a person's abilities. A gushing letter is likely regarded as suspect because everyone has flaws. The letter should take note of what an individual strengths are and what they are improving upon. The ability to adapt and learn with an open mind should be touched on.

This. So much this. My professor's letter was so good was because I took Zoo I, Zoo II, and Parasit (and all three labs) with that professor and I got better with each class. He also brought up that I failed the first Parasit lab test (34%!). He then went on to say how I told him I knew I failed immediately after the test, how I started to be the first one in/last one out of the lab, changed my study habits, and then got the highest grade on the Parasit final (120%) and one of the highest averages on lab write-ups. CSU told me that the description of how I improved and the path I took to improve was actually a great thing to see cause it showed them how I react when I fail.

 

[orca2011]

How many of you chose the option to review the letters of recommendation after they were submitted? Personally, I had waived my right to see them because I had though that it shows that you trust that your writer will be completely honest. But now that this topic has come up, I'm very curious as to whether I received mediocre or very good letters.

I've always waived mine in good faith. Also, I didn't see this mentioned but I apologize if it was, you if you choose not to waive your right, you typically can only see them once you been accepted and attend the school. So you don't get to see them until after it matters anyways.

 

[LetItSnow]

There is a surgical vet tech that got me into shadowing a surgical vet she works for and they are both super awesome and we talk a lot and I actually help around with basic things like making surgical packs and cleaning up. The vet tech is teaching me a lot and sharing a lot of her wisdom and we are really starting to get to know each other.

Would getting a recommendation from a surgical vet tech with 10+ years experience be good? I don't see that a lot so I wasn't sure.

Also, do schools like to see a variety in recs? I work in a 2 doctor practice and work equally with both doctors. Should I only choose one?

In general, you should lean toward getting a dvm recommendation over a tech recommendation. No offense to people who work as SA GP techs, but it just doesn't carry much weight. That said, some techs with advanced training and many years of experience are well-positioned to give recommendations. I volunteered at the teaching hospital for the school I went to, and the department I volunteered in was largely run by a technician (there was veterinarian oversight, but the normal day-to-day operations were run entirely by the technician). I did have her write me a recommendation, but she was a) within the system, b) very experienced, c) had advanced training, and d) had some operational/managerial responsibilities.

So. Bottom line - sure, you could get a tech recommendation, but you should be very cautious about making sure it is worthwhile and will be compelling to people reading your application. From what you've posted above, I would lean away from a recommendation from that tech. But I don't know all the details like you do.

I don't know if schools like to see variety. I'm sure lots of people could give you an uninformed opinion. 🙂 I know that if I were reading applications, what I would look for is consistency. I would want to see three (or whatever) recommendations that all painted a consistent picture of a person that had the qualities I thought were important. If one person talked about one trait, and another talked about something completely different, and I felt like all three letters were describing different people - that would be a big red flag to me.

How many of you chose the option to review the letters of recommendation after they were submitted? Personally, I had waived my right to see them because I had though that it shows that you trust that your writer will be completely honest. But now that this topic has come up, I'm very curious as to whether I received mediocre or very good letters.

I did not opt to review them. I realize there is some anxiety in asking someone to speak for you and then not being able to find out what they said. But the way to alleviate that, in my opinion, is to work with them ahead of time so that you are confident they are saying great things. Show some confidence and trust in them by giving them some rope. If you did an adequate job of picking appropriate letter writers, you shouldn't be questioning whether they are going to say good or bad things.

 

[heyyimhayley]

There is a surgical vet tech that got me into shadowing a surgical vet she works for and they are both super awesome and we talk a lot and I actually help around with basic things like making surgical packs and cleaning up. The vet tech is teaching me a lot and sharing a lot of her wisdom and we are really starting to get to know each other.

Would getting a recommendation from a surgical vet tech with 10+ years experience be good? I don't see that a lot so I wasn't sure.

Also, do schools like to see a variety in recs? I work in a 2 doctor practice and work equally with both doctors. Should I only choose one?

All personal stories to follow, but might give you a little insight...

I worked as a surgical assistant at a 24 hour referral hospital. I never developed relationships with the vets as they came in to operate and left. It was a veterinary supervised experience, but they probably didn't even know my name.

On the other hand, my manager was an LVT, his title was manager of surgical nursing. He was a wonderful manager and he knew me well (and liked me). I had 900-1000 hours at this experience Since Cornell required an evaluation from every experience, I had him write one for me. And I turned out to be an alternate there. (I only had him submit on their supplement, not VMCAS).

On the other hand, when I worked at the aquarium, my direct supervisor was again a technician who knew me well and liked me. But the difference was that I did work with the veterinarian sometimes (unlike never at the other place), and he was really nice and helpful. Didn't know me super well, but I did ask him for my LOR over my manager the tech. Two of my interviewers (Tufts and Penn) actually ended up knowing him (he was a big name in the area). So I'm glad I asked him even if it wasn't AS personal as my manager might have been able to do... But this one definitely carried more weight.

To be completely honest, I think several of my LORs weren't super strong. They were all positive I'm sure, but no one I was close to, except maybe one of the vets? And I got interviews everywhere I applied and already got accepted 2 places.

This is just a personal account, and it's probably not the norm. I don't know what the actual answer for this question is, but that's just my experience with LORs...

 

[futurevet3]

I have a question regarding LORs. I recently graduated with my masters and I would love fir all 3 committee members to be able to write something about me. If I don't get in this year I will have 2 vets next yr, which leaves me only one letter left. Is there a way for my 3 committee members to write/fill out one letter, or can there only be one per letter? I know med schools allow 'committee packets' but I am unsure if vet school letters are done in such a way that allows for this.

 

[that redhead]

There is a surgical vet tech that got me into shadowing a surgical vet she works for and they are both super awesome and we talk a lot and I actually help around with basic things like making surgical packs and cleaning up. The vet tech is teaching me a lot and sharing a lot of her wisdom and we are really starting to get to know each other.

Would getting a recommendation from a surgical vet tech with 10+ years experience be good? I don't see that a lot so I wasn't sure.

Also, do schools like to see a variety in recs? I work in a 2 doctor practice and work equally with both doctors. Should I only choose one?

I would only choose one as they have both worked with you in the same setting. The idea of LORs is to show many (positive) sides of you/your qualities. I imagine both vets would say essentially the same thing, which is not helpful. If I were a reviewer I'd wonder why you couldn't find someone else to write one.

 

[Devastating]

How many of you chose the option to review the letters of recommendation after they were submitted? Personally, I had waived my right to see them because I had though that it shows that you trust that your writer will be completely honest. But now that this topic has come up, I'm very curious as to whether I received mediocre or very good letters.

I chose to NOT waive (to be able to review), but it wasn't until after I submitted that I read more about it...e.g. it "looking better" to not have access, and especially once I found this out:

if you choose not to waive your right, you typically can only see them once you been accepted and attend the school. So you don't get to see them until after it matters anyways.

If I had known these facts beforehand I would have just left it alone :\ But I had thought it meant that I'd be able to see the letter once it was submitted (not that I didn't trust my evaluators to write a positive letter, just out of curiosity). I also didn't consider that having access is viewed as a sort of "pressure" on the evaluator to remain positive, because I figured no one willing to take the time to write a LOR would ever write a negative one (wrong, apparently 😛) What's the point of not actually having access until you're attending? Next cycle I'll just leave it waived...

 

[WildZoo]

I have a question regarding LORs. I recently graduated with my masters and I would love fir all 3 committee members to be able to write something about me. If I don't get in this year I will have 2 vets next yr, which leaves me only one letter left. Is there a way for my 3 committee members to write/fill out one letter, or can there only be one per letter? I know med schools allow 'committee packets' but I am unsure if vet school letters are done in such a way that allows for this.

According to VMCAS, vet schools tend to not like committee letters. Take that as you will. That's probably a question better directed at the schools you are applying to.

I believe you do have to designate a single evaluator for each eLOR on the VMCAS application. You could always ask one person to be the designated writer and for the other two to have some input on the content of the letter.

 

[Osudairy]

I chose to NOT waive (to be able to review), but it wasn't until after I submitted that I read more about it...e.g. it "looking better" to not have access, and especially once I found this out:

If I had known these facts beforehand I would have just left it alone :\ But I had thought it meant that I'd be able to see the letter once it was submitted (not that I didn't trust my evaluators to write a positive letter, just out of curiosity). I also didn't consider that having access is viewed as a sort of "pressure" on the evaluator to remain positive, because I figured no one willing to take the time to write a LOR would ever write a negative one (wrong, apparently 😛) What's the point of not actually having access until you're attending? Next cycle I'll just leave it waived...

In regard to the questions about selecting to see your LOR's, I was always told by the director of my pre-vet program and by some professors that have served time on admissions committees that choosing to WAIVE your rights to see them looks better on you as an applicant. It shows that you have carefully considered who you have asked to write them and that you trust them with what they say. That is just what I have been told. I honestly trusted all of my writers to speak highly of me (a vet, my Master's adviser, a PhD, and our lab tech) and they knew me very well so I elected to waive my right to see them. However, I was not aware that you could only see them after you are attending school.

 

[Minnerbelle]

A lukewarm rec letter, sure does say a lot about the types of experiences you've had and the relationships you've built. A positive letter that looks like a vast majority of applicants' isn't going to make you stand out, but at least it allows you to check off the boxes. Like yes, you are seen as a smart hard worker that is likeable, just nothing super special. But you don't really need to be super special to go to vet school most of the time, just like you don't need a 4.0 or a perfect GRE score.

On the other hand it looks really good to have multiple people who are invested in you and will fight to get you in.

And it's important to build that networking skill because it's so important. As a young'un I thought the term "networking" was kinda yucky. I felt like I should get things in life because of my own merits. Like when people told me early in vet school to work on networking, and I heard people say things like "I'm going to the avma conference to network" I rolled my eyes. But I've realized that networking =/= schmoozing. And it does speak to your strength as a person. It really means getting to know enough people with clout within the community who can scratch your back when needed. That is how you get jobs and residencies and whatever professional positions in this field. My biggest mentor and cheerleader who knows like eeeeveryone who matters around here once sat me down after I didn't get a job offer "because there were 40 other applicants with at least 30 with experience," and said, "next time something like that happens, tell them to not throw away your application until they call me. I can guarantee you will be a front runner after they speak to me." He was also the reason why I got a chance at my current job where I wouldn't even make the initial cut if it weren't for him getting me an interview without telling them I was a new grad. The rest was up to me, but the people you know definitely opens up so many doors for you in this profession. You have to live up to their opinions, but those opinions matter.

And seriously, if there's a chance that it could make your LORs not as strong by not waiving your right to see them, why do it? Plus your recommenders see that you didn't waive it and I think that's disrespectful.