given this response should i use my FMD as LOR after getting fired from scribe job? (ADCOM please)

[PortlandSurgeon]

This experience should be the focus of your personal statement. After u submit it, please post it here.


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im guessing gastrapathy was kidding...

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[lalalaaaaaa]

OP, as you are trying to rebound from being unprofessional and sexist in the workplace, all the while trying to have ADCOMS and other SDNers weigh in on your situation, you make your profile pic one of Michael Scott saying "That's what she said!". The irony is pretty funny, and even more so if you didn't mean to be ironic.

Poor decision, but classic nonetheless!

Also: Don't use the letter. I hope you use your situation as a significant learning experience.

 

[PortlandSurgeon]

OP, as you are trying to rebound from being unprofessional and sexist in the workplace, all the while trying to have ADCOMS and other SDNers weigh in on your situation, you make your profile pic one of Michael Scott saying "That's what she said!". The irony is pretty funny, and even more so if you didn't mean to be ironic.

Poor decision, but classic nonetheless!

Don't use the letter. I hope you use this as a significant learning experience.

thanks. the michael scott pic was on purpose. hey if you cant beat em, join em

 

[PortlandSurgeon]

My last bit of advice, but I'm sure it's obvious: Rock the MCAT and you'll be fine. You'd be amazed how many doors a 35+ opens.

Also, if you have other volunteer experiences AND research to talk about, then I would totally leave off the scribe job. Just move on and don't look back. Good luck on your application cycle.

off topic question: what was your study plan, did you take mcat just once, did you take kaplan or other prep course, how big of a jump did you get from your diag to the real thing. i am starting to think this termination was a blessing in disguise as i just started hardcore studying (doing practice tests) after getting fired and im amazed at how much i dont know yet.

 

[SPQR MD]

I'm going to go against the majority here and tell you to definitely accept the letter. The reply you received from the doc you emailed does sound promising that he will write you a strong letter. In any case, if you have any doubts, you can simply send the letter to your premedical adviser. They can read the letter and tell you whether it is a strong letter, or a risky one while still keeping the contents of the letter secret.

 

[HeyNapkin]

well if he agreed to write me a letter then clearly i wasn't all bad, was i? frankly i don't really appreciate your negativity. i write the way i write and its brought me alot of good things to bear thus far in my life. i was fired by hr for making inappropriate comments, but was given positive performance reviews by my supervisor and the president of the physician group who runs this ed. anyway, whatever, thanks for your viewpoint.

regarding your question in the bold - yes, that is exactly what i was planning to do. i have a strong application otherwise including very strong LORs (as far as i know) from other activities, therefore his LOR is not make or break, but would be nice to have it if were strong.

He's giving you the harsh truth and you're trying to justify yourself. From this behavior, it seems like you have the tendency to brush off situations and try to downplay them. That already is a huge sign of being unprofessional.

 

[corndogger]

honestly, I'm having a hard time believing that you're serious. Your avatar is michael scott from the office and you have his exact personality (as described by yourself); good at one part of your job, but completely unprofessional and lacking in leadership skills. More concerned with being friends with everyone than doing your job, and an inability to accept/improve on your flaws. Hopefully by comparing yourself to this character you at least have a grasp of these flaws.

It's a lot of conjecture based on one experience that you described, but I think the way you've handled this experience speaks volumes about you.

 

[terp720]

honestly, I'm having a hard time believing that you're serious. Your avatar is michael scott from the office and you have his exact personality (as described by yourself); good at one part of your job, but completely unprofessional and lacking in leadership skills. More concerned with being friends with everyone than doing your job, and an inability to accept/improve on your flaws. Hopefully by comparing yourself to this character you at least have a grasp of these flaws.

It's a lot of conjecture based on one experience that you described, but I think the way you've handled this experience speaks volumes about you.

OP didn't change his avatar to Michael Scott until several people started referencing The Office.
He knows...

 

[corndogger]

OP didn't change his avatar to Michael Scott until several people started referencing The Office.
He knows...

oh, I didn't get that from reading through it. Point is, it's not something he should strive for, and he doesn't seem to care to change himself

 

[PortlandSurgeon]

oh, I didn't get that from reading through it. Point is, it's not something he should strive for, and he doesn't seem to care to change himself

corndogger,

1. you're reading alot from an avatar. you must be some sort of genius to tell whether or not someone is striving to change themselves from an avatar.

2. after realizing the mistake you made, that i made my avatar after having numerous references to this character made, you refuse to change your initial observation. aka, you made an assertion based on incorrect information. then, despite having made the assertion on wrong information, after being corrected, you still continued to make the assertion. so you say the earth is flat, someone presents you with evidence that the earth is round, but you continue to assert that it's flat. but i am the one that doesn't seem to care to change himself? ironic.

3. the way you make judgments about people and your above decision-making and opinion forming characteristics speaks more volumes about you than anyone else.

4. continue making judgments about me and other people on this anonymous forum. judging by the other posts youve written you seem to get some sort of ego boost by insulting others, so keep it up, winner.

 

[PortlandSurgeon]

I'm going to go against the majority here and tell you to definitely accept the letter. The reply you received from the doc you emailed does sound promising that he will write you a strong letter. In any case, if you have any doubts, you can simply send the letter to your premedical adviser. They can read the letter and tell you whether it is a strong letter, or a risky one while still keeping the contents of the letter secret.

thanks for your opinion. i think im going to follow LizzyM's advice and others on this one. i talked to my lab PI about the situation. he said that if he were selecting a candidate with a letter that said any sort of improvement was needed, he'd go on to the next candidate. makes sense to me.

 

[PortlandSurgeon]

He's giving you the harsh truth and you're trying to justify yourself. From this behavior, it seems like you have the tendency to brush off situations and try to downplay them. That already is a huge sign of being unprofessional.

harsh truth like i shouldve actually done my job and i should be embarrassed to read my own emails? that sounds like negativity to me. i know how hard i worked after getting woken up in the middle of the night to cover for scribes who didn't show up for graveyard shifts. i don't need to get into a contest but i am fine with the way i write, and don't need to be insulted on my stylistic choices when asking for advice. your opinion is that i have a tendency to brush off situations and downplay them, fair enough, that is your opinion. i, having known myself longer than you have, happen to disagree.

 

[dieanotherday]

hi i posted my situation a few days ago in this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...er-scribe-enough-clinical-experience.1061433/

i got fired from my first and only clinical job as a chief er scribe after 6 months of managing a team of 14 people. i was fired for making inappropriate comments, not being a good leader/professional, and for HR stuff (not for my charting ability). about a month before i was let go, the FMD at my site asked to meet me for coffee and told that there was concern about my leadership because i asked too many questions about medicine and talked too much instead of focusing on charting, though he himself did not have any specific complaints.

anyway i chalked it up to life experience and figured i just needed to get a reference and rec letter from this experience and move on.

this is my original email to him:

Hey Dr. FMD,


First off, I would like to thank you and the physician group for a great experience as an ED scribe and also apologize for not being a better chief scribe. Ever since our talk at the coffee shop, I tried very hard and certainly think and hope I improved a lot, but perhaps it was too little too late. I'm not sure exactly what the scribe company told you, but I admit to doing things wrong, mostly not being professional with the people I was "supervising." Frankly, I just wanted to be liked and joked around, when I shouldn't have joked around, and things got misinterpreted a lot. But l definitely did do things wrong. I am fine with how things turned out, and I wish all the scribes and physicians the best. I know I will always remember the message you gave me that morning about how leaders in medicine need to be the best at what they do, the most professional at what they do, and completely unassailable in their credentials (and I again apologize for not meeting that burden).

That being said, I was wondering if I could use you for a reference or letter of recommendation? I know the last time we worked together you said I did a good job, so I hope you wouldn't have a problem being my reference for AMCAS for my scribe experience. If possible, I would like to list you as the reference for my experience when I apply to medical school this summer. If so, I can only ask that if contacted (the likelihood would be small), that you not mention that I was terminated. I am not required to disclose on AMCAS the reason for stopping work, so, without lying, I would frame it as having had a great experience for 6 months and stopping to shift focus to MCAT, my lab, and volunteering.

Also, if you're agreeable to it, I would absolutely be so thankful if you could write me a strong letter of recommendation for medical school. As lead scribe, I tried to always be responsive, let you know of any possible late/missed shifts and to find coverage, and to communicate your wishes to the team. As a regular scribe, I was always on time for my shifts, always curious and asked questions (perhaps too much), and always excited to be part of the clinical experience. My favorite experience was working with you as you often did things like explain the logarithmic SpO2 saturation curve, and even let me glove-up and let me help on that hip reduction once. That was an amazing experience for a pre-med, to feel that hip pop back into place and be a small part of alleviating that person's pain, and it really solidified my desire to go into medicine.

If you don't feel comfortable being a positive reference for me, I totally understand and no hard feelings either. If you are agreeable to being my reference, thank you so much. If you are further agreeable to writing me a letter of recommendation over the next month or two, that would be phenomenal and I would be so grateful and provide you more information at your request.

Please let me know at your convenience of whether you would be comfortable serving as a positive reference for my scribing experience and/or write me a letter of support to medical school. Regardless, I am once again sorry I was not able to be a better chief scribe, and thank you personally so much for the lessons and experiences you imparted on me.


Sincerely,




i emailed him and this is what he (Facility Medical Director M.D.) said:

PortlandSurgeon

I enjoyed working with you. I hope this experience will impart some lessons on leadership and professionalism. I dont mind serving as a reference, though if asked I would mention the termination as that is what occurred. Also I am happy to write a letter of recommendation - if so it would not mention a termination but would speak to your strengths and enthusiasm but also mention that challenges and weakness were addressed, and positive change was noted after that.

so my question to you sdn is whether i should use him as a reference and more importantly as LOR? from what i understand, references are not called by amcas/med school very often, so the termination probably wouldn't be brought up (please correct me if i'm wrong), but given what he said do you think i should use him as a reference?

i appreciate all responses but would specifically be very grateful to hear from ADCOMS like @LizzyM @gyngyn @Goro @Catalystik @hushcom

should i ask him for LOR and reference for med school? all responses helpful. thanks

if you have many LORs and this is just one of them, I don't think it will hurt you to use it if you do end up receiving it

the fact is he could have said no but he said he was happy to write
you are pretty bold and I commend you for it.

 

[PortlandSurgeon]

hi i posted my situation a few days ago in this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...er-scribe-enough-clinical-experience.1061433/

should i ask him for LOR and reference for med school? all responses helpful. thanks

@LizzyM @tantacles @IlDestriero @everybody else


FYI and my last post on this thread/this matter. i emailed another doc that i had recently worked with the day after i got term'd itself. he moonlights at several hospitals and works with many scribes from various companies. he just emaild me back and said:

Hey PortlandSurgeon,
I will still write a strong a letter of recommendation for you! I don't need to know what happened between you and [scribe company]. I'm pretty busy the next couple of weeks. If you could email me your current CV and a little more info it would be helpful. Take care,
[ER MD]

to the rest of sdn: i need to go back to mcat studying and being a lurker and not poster. all the judging and armchair analysis is getting to me!! best of luck to all, and to all a goodnight.

 

[pietachok]

i am fine with the way i write, and don't need to be insulted on my stylistic choices when asking for advice.

all the judging and armchair analysis is getting to me!! best of luck to all, and to all a goodnight.

People didn't present their stylistic criticism to you in the nicest way, and many of them probably don't sound as professional as they think they do in communications. However, I'd try to take away something constructive from the comments on your style. Let this unfortunate situation open the door for you to identify an area where you need improvement -- no matter how chummy you or how badly you want to sound like you do in person, you should try to use perfect grammar and eliminate colloquialisms like "no hard feelings," because you probably don't appreciate how much they can influence the reader's opinion of you in that moment (the moment when they're deciding whether you deserve a LOR, nonetheless!).

 

[corndogger]

corndogger,

1. you're reading alot from an avatar. you must be some sort of genius to tell whether or not someone is striving to change themselves from an avatar.

2. after realizing the mistake you made, that i made my avatar after having numerous references to this character made, you refuse to change your initial observation. aka, you made an assertion based on incorrect information. then, despite having made the assertion on wrong information, after being corrected, you still continued to make the assertion. so you say the earth is flat, someone presents you with evidence that the earth is round, but you continue to assert that it's flat. but i am the one that doesn't seem to care to change himself? ironic.

3. the way you make judgments about people and your above decision-making and opinion forming characteristics speaks more volumes about you than anyone else.

4. continue making judgments about me and other people on this anonymous forum. judging by the other posts youve written you seem to get some sort of ego boost by insulting others, so keep it up, winner.

oh, the irony.

believe it or not, most people (including myself) are actually trying to help. People tend to be harsh, especially online, when others ignore common sense and advice. If everyone, including your ex-employer, has the same criticisms of you, you might want to consider that maybe the problem lies with you.

 

[terp720]

harsh truth like i shouldve actually done my job and i should be embarrassed to read my own emails? that sounds like negativity to me. i know how hard i worked after getting woken up in the middle of the night to cover for scribes who didn't show up for graveyard shifts. i don't need to get into a contest but i am fine with the way i write, and don't need to be insulted on my stylistic choices when asking for advice. your opinion is that i have a tendency to brush off situations and downplay them, fair enough, that is your opinion. i, having known myself longer than you have, happen to disagree.

I know you said that next post is your last, but since you'll still be lurking:
I don't want to harp on this but since people keep talking about your stylistic choices or saying it is too long/had grammar mistakes etc., I think this is being overlooked and is really what made it a questionable email.

this part:

If so, I can only ask that if contacted (the likelihood would be small), that you not mention that I was terminated. I am not required to disclose on AMCAS the reason for stopping work, so, without lying, I would frame it as having had a great experience for 6 months and stopping to shift focus to MCAT, my lab, and volunteering.

Even with perfect grammar and without the informal language, this request would, for many people, be considered out of line.

Hope things work out for you

 

[Euxox]

If so, I can only ask that if contacted (the likelihood would be small), that you not mention that I was terminated. I am not required to disclose on AMCAS the reason for stopping work, so, without lying, I would frame it as having had a great experience for 6 months and stopping to shift focus to MCAT, my lab, and volunteering.

It would be one thing just to say that you worked as an EMT for six months and not mention why you stopped, but that bolded statement? That is a lie. You didn't stop to shift focus to studying for the MCAT, you were fired and then spent your newfound free time studying for the MCAT. Those are two entirely different things.

I agree 100% with terp720. It's good that this LoR situation worked out for you in the end, but it is important that you take some valuable lessons away from this experience. Be professional. Your colleagues are not automatically your best buddies. Not only does that mean that they might get offended if you speak too freely and use less than polite language, but also that things like telling them that you intend to lie and/or asking them to lie on your behalf will probably not go over well.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

PortlandSurgeon, This contradicts LizzyM's advice, but I strongly urge you to move away from listing this job at all. Do not list this job! It's not like there's a glaring whole in your CV. You probably got this job right after graduating and it was for only 6 months. No one will ask what you were doing during that time. OTOH, if you worked somewhere as a scribe, you'd be expected to have a LoR. It may raise questions if you don't. And using that other doctor? Even though he said it would be a "strong recommendation", I still think it's doubtful. I mean, why did you leave then if it was all so good?

I think your biggest worry is what you would say about having clinical experience. For that, get out there and start that now. By the time you get the application going, verified, and have interviews, you can talk all you want to about your clinical experience (which may also include what you observed when you were a scribe.) It may seem like a waste, but I think any mention of this job is just begging for trouble. It was a job you held for only 6 months, but the negative consequences could have a lasting effect. Forget it and move on.

 

[Plecopotamus]

OTOH, if you worked somewhere as a scribe, you'd be expected to have a LoR.

This is overblown. There are circumstances in which it is necessary to have a LOR from your employer. This is not one of them as long as the OP has a reasonable number of LORs otherwise.