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Gunner Training?

Discussion in 'Step I' started by hope2bpaindoc, Sep 11, 2009.

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  1. bchandler

    bchandler

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    Hi guys (and thanks for the message below, @Drachfar),

    I want to apologize for a host of content mismatches that you guys may have seen. Things like a question not matching the flashcard learning point, etc. In short, because we update our content frequently -- and because updates must make their way into people's personal review plan/calendar -- there is a whole process involved and, unfortunately, that process has a few bugs in it that are creating content-content mismatches. We are on top of it and fixing it as I type but I wanted you guys to know.

    If you see any issue, please click the "feedback" button so we can fix it ASAP. We are also working on automated ways of fixing the results of these bugs, but for now we are fixing them manually -- and fast. Again, deep apologies for disrupting your study schedule.

    After we fix the content mismatches, our next priority is to decrease the load time for our website pages.

    Thanks again for your support. Let me know if you guys have any questions or concerns. Thanks!

  2. bchandler

    bchandler

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    Hi guys (and thanks @Drachfar!),

    I want to apologize for a host of content mismatches that you guys may have seen. Things like a question not matching the flashcard learning point, etc. In short, because we update our content frequently -- and because updates must make their way into people's personal review plan/calendar -- there is a whole process involved and, unfortunately, that process has a few bugs in it that are creating content-content mismatches. We are on top of it and fixing it as I type but I wanted you guys to know.

    If you see any issue, please click the "feedback" button so we can fix it ASAP. We are also working on automated ways of fixing the results of these bugs, but for now we are fixing them manually -- and fast. Again, deep apologies for disrupting your study schedule.

    After we fix the content mismatches, our next priority is to decrease the load time for our website pages.

    Thanks again for your support. Let me know if you guys have any questions or concerns. Thanks!

    - Ben

    [email protected]
  3. Encephalectomy

    Encephalectomy PGY-0

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    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

    I think that it would be great to add an option where you don't have to look at the whole flashcard again but just rep the questions that you missed.
  4. Drachfar

    Drachfar

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    I can confirm that the problems are fixed regarding renal information mismatches. Thank you for the update.
  5. Yope

    Yope New Member

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    I often do my daily review questions on my phone, so rarely do I finish a set of 50 in one sitting. If I don't use it for a while I get logged out. However, when I log back in to continue the questions I've done, it's as if the questions I already did were never assigned.

    This is problematic because when I finish a question set, I want to review the low rated flash cards, but they don't show up.

    Has anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions?
  6. Guyton Killah

    Guyton Killah

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    How did you manage to get the free trial? I cant find a way through without paying first!
  7. COdoubleMO2theN

    COdoubleMO2theN

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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011
  8. Guyton Killah

    Guyton Killah

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    Thanks you very much. I will give y'all a feedback after a week. So far so good, and i bet I'm gonna love it.
  9. Drachfar

    Drachfar

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    What gives? Are people submitting feedback when they find errors, or are they annotating their cards?

    I found two more in cardio physiology :(! Dont get me wrong, this program has potential, and I was/am very close to taking the plunge. It's based on the same algorithm as Anki decks, which matches my mode of study.

    Would my progress be wiped clean once my trial is up? Can I wait a few months for information to be checked over before signing up? Im on the fence, and would love to see if any 2nd or 3rd years have any input.
  10. ar2388

    ar2388 intern

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    submit feedback with any issues. thats what ive been doing
  11. Zenfudge

    Zenfudge

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    Just wanted to say that I have had one of my revision submissions go through (they had the innervation of a muscle wrong), and GT got back to me within a reasonable amount of time.


    Pound for pound, there is no more errata in GT than there is in FA.


    But...I do have a question. How are people trudging through the minutiae of subjects like immuno via GT? I mean, do you think memorizing every single function of every cytokine is worth it? The material is in first aid, but damn. I am learning the material, no doubt, but I have to wonder if this approach will help me with the questions with a heavy clinical slant.


    Also a plug for the program: I was in a problem-solving group session and a question came up that I had memorized verbatim from GT and I vomited out the answer without even thinking. People were like WTF? This happened again when we had to come up with criteria for a syndrome. So, it does work, but it is also turning me into a douche.
  12. hrandani

    hrandani

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    Hahahaha. Been there!
  13. unsung

    unsung

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    If you think about it, when ppl are "reading" FA, they're probably only retaining like 60% of the material... or less.

    Even on the 3rd read or something, most ppl are probably like "yeah, eosinophils, I KNOW what they do, DUH... har har har". *Flips page*

    But then a Q shows up in step that asks you the specific granules it has or some such. And the person's like wtf, I've "never seen this" before... even tho' it's right there in FA.

    I'm totally getting that feeling as I'm going through GT. The open-ended Qs really show me how much I know or don't know. Sometimes knowing a "picky" detail cold turns a big, complicated clinical Q into a real simple Q.

    Btw, what was the small group Q?? haha.. I've definitely had that experience. I'll know stuff like the triad for this or that syndrome cold... and pretty much no one else in the room had that "lightbulb" moment, so they're struggling through some long-winded clinical scenario.

    GT & Goljan are GOLD, man.
  14. Zenfudge

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    I'm really hoping that the bolded holds true for me and that alone justifies the raw memory horsepower that this program elicits (which can sometimes mask shortcomings in understanding concepts in my view). Your vote for Goljan is something I definitely agree with and I intend to use his book + audio to keep my eye on the mechanisms and big picture. Goljan seems like a nice "counterpoint" to GT.

    Without getting too specific, one of the questions had to do with the side effects of a drug (of which there are like 7). I don't think it was the fact that I knew the answer, but the rapidity at which it came out. I mean, being able to name a laundry list of side effects is a pretty cool party trick, lol. The other question had to do with a very well known cluster of post-infection sequelae (even has a bolded mnemonic in FA). Same thing: GT tattooed that crap in my brain.

    BTW, I am a first-year (almost done) which contributes to my douchiness. But there is no way I am going to wait until the last 6 weeks to try and memorize first aid. I want to be doing question banks ~exclusively by that point. I am using GT to go over material previously covered; generally I don't use it for "learning" stuff, unless our school totally omits something (happens often).

    One more question: Are you planning on continuing GT up until the exam? So far I was thinking about ditching it completely or weaning myself off of it in the last month and make the switch to UWorld.
  15. Shadowmoses

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    When in first year did you start using it? I am first year and I just started using GT at the end of first semester and I wish i found this earlier so I could have been banking cards as I went along. I'm going to use my short break after finals to bank as many cards as possible before 2nd semester starts :rolleyes:
  16. Zenfudge

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    I also started using it about 6 months into first year. Honestly, I think that was for the best. The first 6 months of med school was enough by itself, but now things are much more manageable (no more gross anatomy) and I have time for outside study.

    It is tough to make progress very quickly. I think I have only mastered ~ 11%, but I don't grade myself over a 4 unless I really know my stuff. I try to squeeze in an hour a night, but sometimes I have to put it aside for exams. I literally type out most of my answers,, and if I am not close enough, I grade myself low.

    My goal is to get 50% mastery over the summer break, but we know how that goes. I actually think banking cards over the break is a swell idea, especially if you are compiling old material and reviewing. It's a little gunnerish, but whatever,"I do what I want". :thumbup:
  17. exi

    exi EM, home of the cool kids

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    I hope you guys also plan on really enjoying your breaks. I'm at the "study for Step" part since mine's in just over two months, so... yeah, enjoy those breaks. :thumbup:
  18. unsung

    unsung

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    Ha! I do the same thing. Actually, now I'm only doing the "lite" mode (and still get over 100 Qs/day), since classwork is wrapping up & it's very busy time of year.

    Maybe I'm grading myself a lil' harshly, but mastery level is definitely very slow in creeping up. Pathophys organ systems is mostly banked, but the basic sciences still have a lot to go!

    Oh well... right now, I'll be happy just to get GT 100% banked before too much dedicated study time has passed. Still have a bit more class time to wade through, however... so not yet fully panicked. lol

    To answer your Q, I do plan on continuing GT up until the test. I don't think I'll reach mastery of the material... I mean, I'd like to see their data on how many users actually bank 100% of the cards and hit 100% mastery (without "cheating" and rating themselves 5 even when they can't truly regurg the material).

    Whoever actually is capable of that will have mastered a TON of information! I mean... geez.

    Will most likely get a UWorld subscription in next couple of days. Will try to get 100% of a section at least banked in GT before attempting the UWorld Q set on the subject. Also, will definitely do all the Qs in the GT "Q bank"... it's heartening that I do pretty well on the multiple choice Qs even if I haven't truly mastered all the flashcards.

    Anyway... you're a superstar. I'm sooo jealous. Wish I had known about GT back in 1st year. ;) Good luck, but try and enjoy your summer as well.
  19. ar2388

    ar2388 intern

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    wow. i am a 2nd year and 7 weeks away from step 1.. only like 11.6% mastery and 60% of cards banked. i wish i did this a LOT MORE during first year.. sigh. oh well
  20. Shadowmoses

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    lol yea I'll definitely be trying to bank only old material which I learned in the first semester, especially biochemistry cause I do not want to ever have to relearn that stuff again :laugh:. Thx for the advice.
  21. kimbosliced

    kimbosliced SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor

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    How would one recommend using GT along with first year material?

    Would it be more beneficial to say use it with subjects you've already completed--i.e we finished gross and biochem in the fall so I'd spend my time on GT going through cards and qs from those sections...

    OR is it better to use GT along with the current course your taking. So, as we cover say renal in physiology, one would review the cards and "bank" the questions in renal as I study for my renal tests?

    I used the free trial a little bit in December and really couldn't come up with a way to implement this stuff into my studying for 1st year.

    Any suggestions? Also, for those of you using it 1st year, how many hours a day are you spending?

    Thanks.
  22. Zenfudge

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    Thank you for the feedback and the well-wishing. ;)

    I still have not tried light mode; I need to look into that.

    It's nice to see someone ahead of me in this process so I can adjust my plan. I would be very interested to hear what your experience is with integrating GT with UWorld in the pressure cooker. Are you going to do a run (or more) through FA as well?

    Although I have mastered a decent amount of material, I have banked almost the same amount (mastered ~ banked). I think this is precisely because of the harsh grading, but it seems that if I grade myself even one point too high, there are times where I completely botch a question and barely remember seeing it the next time the question pops up. Other times, I grade too harshly, and the question is too easy, and I am only now starting to figure out just the right amount of "honesty" I need with myself for the question interval to be just right.

    For the summer, I definitely need to get the hell out of my house. I don't know how much fun I will have, but one thing is for sure I am motivated to get in better shape. I used to be able to push a decent amount of weight in the gym and run a few miles, but now I have back fat. Who the heck gets lower back fat (shudder)? If anybody has actually gotten in better shape after their first year of medical school, I automatically hate you, but I would also like to hear how you did it.
  23. Zenfudge

    Zenfudge

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    I think this is really an individual thing, and in my experience, there will be new material on those cards that you have not encountered in your class anyway. But, I think it is much less painless and more fruitful to at least have seen "most" of the material before you tackle it in GT.

    Truthfully, I feel like I "learn" the material better using the traditional method used for classes (i.e. look at figures in ppts., read the syllabus, study with a partner, etc.), BUT I don't retain it. Most of my classmates don't retain it either. This is where GT works best for me, and that seems to be the experience for most people (I am only assuming).

    For the time being, I try to bank questions immediately after a test so the concepts are still fresh. This doesn't always happen as planned, since we (you) are so busy being a med student. I just do as much as feasible. This is also dependent on whether your pre-clinical years are graded (my school is not).

    I average about an hour a night using GT, and up to 2 hours on "non-busy" nights (Oh, I am a night owl). Which reminds me, I need to do my questions right now :(

    The day before a test, I ditch GT and focus on my exam.
  24. Shadowmoses

    Shadowmoses

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    I am working on a plan on how to use GT these days but I haven't actually started using GT in combination with classes yet. I've taken bits and pieces of how others use GT from this board, such as doing the daily review questions in the morning for about 60-90 minutes before classes. Then in the evening I'll study whatever I learned at school while also looking at the related GT flashcards...attempt to knock out 2 birds with one stone. For the subjects which I already completed in school but not in GT...if I get time I'll try to get those respective flashcards banked too, but mainly I want to follow what I am currently learning in class.

    I'm keeping a binder with nice subject seperator tabs exclusively for GT notes. This is because I dont want to get stuck in a situation where I can recall what is on the flashcards but not recall the concepts behind it. Also being that it is a binder I can easily add extra pages in anywhere which should help with organization.

    Keep in mind this is experimental and likely to be readjusted accordingly.;)
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2011
  25. akhan283

    akhan283

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    im kind of an idiot- can't seem to figure out how long this free trial lasts- any one know?
    wish i would have started using this sooner.
  26. RememberWhen

    RememberWhen We used to sing?

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    Hey guys, I was just wondering what those of you with gunnertraining experience think of my flashcard method...

    I stumbled upon spaced learning flashcard programs a little before med school started and half way into fall came up with the bright idea of putting the parts of First Aid we learn in class into the program (I'm using mneumosyne.) I'm VERY thorough with the First Aid info, and if we cover a topic I put in both what we learned in class AND the details in First Aid that we didn't learn. I've been really pleased by how much I can retain and have had moments similar to what was described in earlier posts (Such as spouting things from memory in small group- though I'm trying to play it cool now after the stunned stares!!)

    A little while ago I found out about gunnertraining. Basically I'm guessing that the program is pretty much the same as what I'm doing already, there's just the pro of not having to make the cards and the con of having to pay. I'll probably do the free trial over the summer to see how I like it, but I wanted to know you're opinion. Would Gunnertraining be good since it's a program many people use (so more mistakes will be caught, I don't have the fear of losing data- though I try to back up my cards often, etc.) I guess there's also the worry that I'll have less time 2nd year so making the cards would be harder... but I think I'm learning while making them? I just am not sure what's best

    Oh, and I'm putting a few other things into my program like some basic spanish and key things from class that I have problems remembering... so I guess it's useful for that too.
  27. Zenfudge

    Zenfudge

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    I ran across a question in GT micro that has me vexed. If anybody knows their micro well enough to explain this to me I would be grateful.

    Basically the question asks: "...which of the following is not considered to have antigenic variation?"

    A. Staphylococcus
    B. Salmonella
    C. Influenza
    D. Borrelia
    E. N. gonorrhea


    The answer is A.

    So, is changing penicillin-binding proteins (a la' Staph) not considered antigenic variation? When I google "antigenic variation + Staph" I get a bunch of articles, so now I am really unsure of this question.

    I think I am misunderstanding the definition of antigenic variation.

    Sorry that this is off-topic, but I really don't want to start another thread.
  28. Zenfudge

    Zenfudge

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    It sounds like your method is working well for you. I have used Anki sporadically for classes and it has been mildly helpful, but I think I never got the full benefit since I would just go through the cards once or twice just prior to the exam, thereby nixing the benefit of interval training.

    I think one of the benefits of GT is the fact that there are so many cards that it becomes a little harder to fall into the trap of pattern recognition (i.e. not truly remembering the concept, but just remembering the pattern of the card.) Finally, GT is not technically a flash card program. I mean, we call them "cards", but really they are medium-sized chunks of information. Also, most of the questions are open ended and you have to explain entire concepts instead of just a word (usually). I think this effectively bypasses the pattern recognition phenomenon I mentioned earlier.

    One of the pros to other flash card programs, however, is the ability to add audio to the flash cards which worked well for me with Anki.

    I dunno. Give GT a try and see if you like it. There is certainly errata in GT, but they have been ~responsive when I sent an email about a mistake and they fixed it. I am sure there are tons of other users that hit customer service up when they find something.
  29. Encephalectomy

    Encephalectomy PGY-0

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    2am so forgive the ramble but...

    The question is getting at the fact that the others all have well known mechanisms of antigenic variation (which I'm taking to mean changes in antigen presentation not based on random accumulation of mutations), though it isn't entirely accurate for influenza (antigenic shifts could be considered antigen variation, but I don't think that drifts would be).

    I don't remember the mechanisms off the top of my head, but salmonella borrellia and gonorrhea all basically have several different sets of surface proteins and only express one at a time and have mechanisms to switch them. Example. You get infected with Borelia recurentes (recurring fever), your immune system mostly clears it, then it changes surface antigens and it takes your immune system about a week to catch up, so you get this pattern or weekly spiking fevers.

    Staph don't change penicillin binding proteins. Some staph have evolved to continuously express different penicillin binding proteins, but they aren't actively switching mid infection like the other pathogens listed.

    Again, maybe somebody can correct me, but I don't know of influenza having a similar mechanism.
  30. Zenfudge

    Zenfudge

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    Ahhh, OK. Great point. If this is your 2 AM rambling, I can't imagine what passes for your normal.

    I was getting MRSA confused with the mid-infection switching that you are talking about. There lies the rub though; I haven't heard of influenza switching midstream either.

    I can't remember the exact explanation given for the antigenic variation for influenza. I am not sure how to bring that question up again, but if I remember correctly they were just referring to the point mutations in hema/neura (shifts), which doesn't really make sense to me, but I guess they do change from season to season and that is what they were getting at.

    Thanks for the explanation. I am starting to think the Micro department at my school is lacking cajones.
  31. JPanda

    JPanda

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    Use GUNNERTRAINING EARLY AND NOW. You dont have to study hours a day maybe just half an hour.

    The point of the program is to build long term memory through repetition. The earlier you start - in theory - the better and stronger the memory you will build and the more information it will be. My mistake was starting it in August or the end of year 1. At first, i thought the program was a joke but after using it religiously, i see the value of it. It certainly shouldnt be your only study method. It helps in remembering the nitty gritty details of information and not in learning something new.
  32. Day man

    Day man

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    Sorry to post here but the mods for GT read this as much or more than emails...anyway I think the STL system needs to be updated. From what I'm seeing, the algorithm uses your 'score' for a specific card for a subject and then calculates how long that card can be viewed again. One problem with this, which is a rather big problem, is this: let's say you're viewing a card you knew very very well...5 months ago. Well you probably racked up a really strong average, probably between 4-5 over a number of views. So if you forget something, and answer at say a 1-2...that 1 or 2 doesn't impact the average enough to change the study of the card, it's still viewed as 'mastered' and the next time you see the card is 10-12 days (from what I've seen). This doesn't make sense to me...if you don't know the card, it should come up 1-3 days after, regardless of your average score. The programing for this wouldn't be too intense, just add some if statement along the lines of if already at +4 average, "mastery achieved", and answer "1-2" then reset the mastery or something like that. Otherwise, the cards either get regarded as 'mastered' or you have to manually update your study schedule (which is annoying and defeats the purpose of purchasing a program that's supposed to do that for you). Just a suggestion and I hope the guys read this for the next crop of people to use their program.
  33. ar2388

    ar2388 intern

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    i have just started my dedicated board study time and i am abandoning GT.. sad to do so bt i just dont have enough time. i wish i started it sooner.. so to everyone out there considering GT, if you use it please start before january of 2nd year... i probably could have gotten so much more out of it if i started it when i bought it and did half-ass it.. i bought it in dec of MS1.
  34. DoctwoB

    DoctwoB

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    Agreed 100%. I usually manually adjust the date forward, but it makes going through questions much slower. If you put a 1 after having something as a 5 50 days ago, you've clearly forgotten it and need to be exposed to it again shortly thereafter.
  35. kstreet

    kstreet

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    How much did you complete and master in that time?

    Just curious about people's progress...
  36. ar2388

    ar2388 intern

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    completed about 65% of cards.. mastered like 11%....
  37. Zenfudge

    Zenfudge

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    Agree with what is being said about the wacky timing of the cards. This happens to me as well. If I use the "power analytics" graphs to check my progress, it looks like someone on meth drew the graphs. I think this is reflective of not only the program, but with what kind of mood I am in when I grade myself.

    One way to circumvent (or at least reduce) this is to make sure you don't let the percentage of cards covered get too far away from your mastery. The going is very slow, but if you do this, the instances of WTF cards are more spaced out than if you get too overzealous. Also, if the program says "we recommend that you do questions, and stop banking cards", it is a good idea to heed their advice. At least this is what has worked for me thus far.

    I was at ~ 11% mastery and 13% cards banked about a month ago, and after doing about 1.5 hours a night for the past month I am a little over 15% mastery and 17% banked. This is with finals for MS1 going on, and so right now I am in a holding pattern and just maintaining. Hopefully I can surge over the summer a bit.

    Maybe if enough of us chime in, they will reformat things.
  38. IntelInside

    IntelInside

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Messages:
    349
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    This would definately be a great update and I highly recommend implementation of said change. Hopefully this is implemented :xf:
  39. Shadowmoses

    Shadowmoses

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    126
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Has anyone been able to use GT yesterday or today? The URL brings up a webpage saying it can't find the server. I know GT has gone down in the past but its usually for like a few hours. Its been over a day now.
  40. DrDrToBe

    DrDrToBe

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    292
    Location:
    USA
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    No I've been using it all day today with no problems...no problems in the last month or so and I've been using it daily.
  41. kstreet

    kstreet

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    190
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Are any of you aiming for 100% mastery? Seems like it might be tough to get to in the remaining weeks. I'm currently sittin at 40% :/
  42. Shadowmoses

    Shadowmoses

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    126
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Thanks for responding. As weird as this is, I can access GT now. I had a strange feeling this would happen, but I cant dwell on the oddity behind it, or maybe its bad luck. I gotta focus on catching up in GT since I missed yesterday's questions :(
  43. abyz

    abyz

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    30
    just signed up for a free trial with GT...does anyone know how exactly GT has 6000+ questions? I counted only ~ 2600 in the "exam simulation" thanks
  44. exeunt

    exeunt

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    226
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    would starting at the end of first year be too late?
  45. redcard

    redcard

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    46

    How did you count all of the questions ?

    I think what they mean by 6000 is the practice questions after every flashcard .

    There are like 40 bacterias and if you average 7 questions per bacteria , you end up having 300 question only about bacterias which is only a section in the microbiology.

    I doubt that they would lie about how many questions they have on their site .
  46. bchandler

    bchandler

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Academic Administration
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Hi Guys, Nick just checked and we actually have 2,758 MCQs (what you can currently access via exam simulation and via your schedule review (usually for higher levels of mastery) and 8,605 recall questions.

    We are also reanalyzing our spaced learning algorithm thanks to your advice. We also have keyboard shortcuts and a MUCH faster review/quiz process coming this week as well! Thanks for the great feedback; keep it coming. :)

    - Ben
  47. abyz

    abyz

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    30
    Hi Ben, thanks for clarifying. two more questions for you -- 1. I just finished a simulated exam and when I click on view answers, I get an error msg- Error 6 (net::ERR_FILE_NOT_FOUND): The file or directory could not be found. any solutions? 2. When i create a new customized exam, i check off 'new questions only' but I'm definitely seeing 3-5 repeat questions everytime. any way to fix this? thanks!
  48. dermbaby

    dermbaby

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Status:
    Medical Student
    i was wondering if there the team is working on creating an app for adroid and iphone. just wondering
  49. KeyzerSoze

    KeyzerSoze Class of 2013!

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,623
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    In the meantime, their site is just html and works fine in a mobile browser.
  50. CatFactorial

    CatFactorial

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    499
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    It is no longer keeping track of questions that are completed. Terribly frustrating, especially after doing a bunch. Anyone else having similar problems?

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