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There is indeed funding for some Psy.D. programs; problem is, fully-funded Psy.D. programs (i.e., tuition remission + stipend) are the exception rather than the rule. This doesn't necessarily speak to the quality of the training, of course, but when the typical price tag for a degree seems to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $100-150k for tuition alone, partial aid isn't going to do a whole lot to help you out. This is particularly apparent when you consider that there are many programs which do offer full funding; they're just tougher to get into.

If ALL you want to do is therapy, then yes, a master's makes more sense. Psychodynamic training is a bit unique, though, in that it requires a substantial time (and monetary) investment to receive "golden standard" competency. I believe many of the post-grad psychodynamic training institutes limit admission to psychologists and physicians/psychiatrists, so a doctorate might indeed be required. However, these institutes are expensive; the numbers I've seen thrown around here suggest that they take somewhere around 3-5 years to complete, during which time you're paying for multiple weekly supervision and therapy sessions (although there are posters here who've looked into the training more thoroughly than me, so I welcome their corrections/further input). Tacking that expense on top of a hefty student loan bill from grad school just seems like a financial death sentence.

This. I've been looking at the funding offered by university-based PsyD programs recently, and only a very, very small handful actually offer full funding (Baylor, Rutgers, Virginia Consortium. Indiana U-Pennsylvania). This degree, IMO, isn't worth anything above, say, $60k-70k in debt, unless you have some super special bullet-proof loan repayment plan. I'd look at the programs listed above, plus more balanced clinically focused PhD programs.

However, if you really just want to do psychodynamic therapy, a masters (funded and/or with public university in-state tuition) plus post-masters training might fit.

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There is indeed funding for some Psy.D. programs; problem is, fully-funded Psy.D. programs (i.e., tuition remission + stipend) are the exception rather than the rule. This doesn't necessarily speak to the quality of the training, of course, but when the typical price tag for a degree seems to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $100-150k for tuition alone, partial aid isn't going to do a whole lot to help you out. This is particularly apparent when you consider that there are many programs which do offer full funding; they're just tougher to get into.

If ALL you want to do is therapy, then yes, a master's makes more sense. Psychodynamic training is a bit unique, though, in that it requires a substantial time (and monetary) investment to receive "golden standard" competency. I believe many of the post-grad psychodynamic training institutes limit admission to psychologists and physicians/psychiatrists, so a doctorate might indeed be required (although I could be wrong). However, these institutes are expensive; the numbers I've seen thrown around here suggest that they take somewhere around 3-5 years to complete, during which time you're paying for multiple weekly supervision and therapy sessions (although there are posters here who've looked into the training more thoroughly than me, so I welcome their corrections/further input). Tacking that expense on top of a hefty student loan bill from grad school just seems like a financial death sentence.

What if on top of therapy I hope to teach on the side too? Should I still only do masters?
 
What if on top of therapy I hope to teach on the side too? Should I still only do masters?

Depends on where you'd like to teach. I know my university hired a small number of masters-level instructors, but in general, a doctorate degree is going to give you many more teaching options. But if you have a specific college or type of college in mind, check out the website(s) and see what the reqs would be.

Also recognize, though, that (warranted or not), there's still a fairly significant bias against the Psy.D. at most universities. Thus, if a tenure-track-type position is your end goal, a Ph.D. would be a better bet. But if you're just wanting to adjunct at a local college, a Psy.D. could get you there.
 
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Depends on where you'd like to teach. I know my university hired a small number of masters-level instructors, but in general, a doctorate degree is going to give you many more teaching options. But if you have a specific college or type of college in mind, check out the website(s) and see what the reqs would be.

Also recognize, though, that (warranted or not), there's still a fairly significant bias against the Psy.D. at most universities. Thus, if a tenure-track-type position is your end goal, a Ph.D. would be a better bet. But if you're just wanting to adjunct at a local college, a Psy.D. could get you there.

IMO, wanting to adjunct occasionally doesn't justify the time (and money, if unfunded) cost of getting a PsyD. The pay is very low, the work isn't always predictable, and like AA said, there's a strong preference (justified or not) for PhD over PsyDs, even with adjuncting. So, if this would be your main reason for going the doctoral route, just go for a fully funded, more balanced/clinically-focused PhD, IMO.
 
IMO, wanting to adjunct occasionally doesn't justify the time (and money, if unfunded) cost of getting a PsyD. The pay is very low, the work isn't always predictable, and like AA said, there's a strong preference (justified or not) for PhD over PsyDs, even with adjuncting. So, if this would be your main reason for going the doctoral route, just go for a fully funded, more balanced/clinically-focused PhD, IMO.

:thumbup:

Adjuncting definitely isn't worth attending an unfunded program. It's more an option if someone really enjoys teaching, but doesn't want a full-on academic position. It's certainly not going to make you rich (the numbers at my university are ~$3k/course), and really is more about scratching the occasional teaching "itch" while also making a few extra bucks on the side.

It's also much more viable if you've taught the class, or something similar, in the past. If you're having to prep from scratch, it'd be rough to do on top of a full-time job elsewhere.
 
Seems like you have done your homework with stats and numbers of Universities here. One more thing to consider is retention rate as well as your interest match, these things will decide how well you perform in a program because your performance does matter in your internship chances (Its better to start thinking in those terms from the very beginning). Also consider

As far as life outside program is concerned, I believe that you may choose any place and if you make good friends there, you will enjoy your stay. Other things in city do matter but you will find enough happenings in any city and honestly, you won't have much time.

As for rankings, all 3 Universities have almost similar rankings, so it won't really matter.

P.S.: I am going to Wright state
 
Please post in the "help me decide" mega thread. Good luck with your upcoming decisions!
 
I'd go to Roosevelt. It seems like that's where your heart is and somewhere that would give you a short time frame would only agonize you in the long run.
 
I guess its time i throw my hat into this and ask for advice rather than make my own thread:

I just recently received an invitation to SPU's interviews for their clin psych phd program. Out of seven schools i applied to, it is so far the only one to reach out to me. The other schools i applied to include U of Oregon, Minnesota, Washington, Wisconsin-Madison, Florida, and Washington State (WSU). Oregon i think is too late for as i believe their interviews already took place.

The others are up in the air, but given my academic "stats" i can't say its implausible to believe SPU might be my only invite this round. The others are also slightly higher in their average GPA and GRE admissions compared to SPU. Their averages range from the 3.7s to the 3.8s roughly, and their GREs are generally in the 1300-1400s (old scores).

My GPA was 3.75, GRE roughly translates to a 1250 by old scores, kind of mediocre. My research experience is also, probably, less competitive to those who have been an RA for the last year. I have experience being an RA for about half a year in college, and i conducted my own research (under the supervision of a professor) with several peers in a senior level animal lab class -- but otherwise nothing significant.

The kicker is i'm actually from SPU already. I just graduated last spring. I liked the faculty the campus and the learning environments (smaller) so much that i investigated their phd program and applied.

SPU was not my first / top choice for a school, but obviously im interested enough in it that i applied. Im not concerned with any potential "religious bent" in my education there, as there was no significant interruption of religion in any of the 4 years i spent at SPU as an undergrad. A few things concern me and this forum by leaps and bounds has been more helpful to me in understanding the phd processes and intricacies than any other source, so im hoping to find some solid input once more:

My B.A. is from SPU -- will it look odd if my PhD is also from SPU?

Given my grades and scores, i may not get invited anywhere else, and if i pass SPU up this round, is it worth the risk of reaching higher for a harder school even if i get into nowhere next year as well? (basically a choice: SPU starting this next year or no school for the next 2 years).

Granted, i have almost two weeks before the actual interviews and more weeks after that before even potentially being offered a place in the program -- i may be counting my chickens too early, and i have no idea if anywhere else will invite me elsewhere. I guess i just needed a soundboard for my thoughts and concerns; being alone with these questions and worries is maddening.

Any and all input welcome, thank you
 
I guess its time i throw my hat into this and ask for advice rather than make my own thread:

I just recently received an invitation to SPU's interviews for their clin psych phd program. Out of seven schools i applied to, it is so far the only one to reach out to me. The other schools i applied to include U of Oregon, Minnesota, Washington, Wisconsin-Madison, Florida, and Washington State (WSU). Oregon i think is too late for as i believe their interviews already took place.

The others are up in the air, but given my academic "stats" i can't say its implausible to believe SPU might be my only invite this round. The others are also slightly higher in their average GPA and GRE admissions compared to SPU. Their averages range from the 3.7s to the 3.8s roughly, and their GREs are generally in the 1300-1400s (old scores).

My GPA was 3.75, GRE roughly translates to a 1250 by old scores, kind of mediocre. My research experience is also, probably, less competitive to those who have been an RA for the last year. I have experience being an RA for about half a year in college, and i conducted my own research (under the supervision of a professor) with several peers in a senior level animal lab class -- but otherwise nothing significant.

The kicker is i'm actually from SPU already. I just graduated last spring. I liked the faculty the campus and the learning environments (smaller) so much that i investigated their phd program and applied.

SPU was not my first / top choice for a school, but obviously im interested enough in it that i applied. Im not concerned with any potential "religious bent" in my education there, as there was no significant interruption of religion in any of the 4 years i spent at SPU as an undergrad. A few things concern me and this forum by leaps and bounds has been more helpful to me in understanding the phd processes and intricacies than any other source, so im hoping to find some solid input once more:

My B.A. is from SPU -- will it look odd if my PhD is also from SPU?

Given my grades and scores, i may not get invited anywhere else, and if i pass SPU up this round, is it worth the risk of reaching higher for a harder school even if i get into nowhere next year as well? (basically a choice: SPU starting this next year or no school for the next 2 years).

Granted, i have almost two weeks before the actual interviews and more weeks after that before even potentially being offered a place in the program -- i may be counting my chickens too early, and i have no idea if anywhere else will invite me elsewhere. I guess i just needed a soundboard for my thoughts and concerns; being alone with these questions and worries is maddening.

Any and all input welcome, thank you

I can't really weigh into whether it will look weird getting your PhD from your undergrad institution. I think it's relatively uncommon for undergrad institutions to want their students to pursue a PhD at their school, but that's clearly not the case in your situation. The one thing I will say about SPU is that their funding is almost non-existent. I interviewed there last year (and was accepted), but I just couldn't get past the amount of debt that their students typically incur. Their tuition is around $30,000 a year with little to no funding opportunities (you might get a RA/TA position for a couple of years, but it doesn't come with a tuition waiver so you're still taking out loans). So, taking only the funding situation into account, I would personally opt to take a full-time RA job for a couple of years and not accept a spot at SPU. That's obviously my personal opinion and you know what's best for you, but the amount of debt that you would incur at this school (again, in my opinion) is just not worth it given the salary you will likely be making. If you do end up taking that route and apply again in a couple of years, I would recommend applying to a wider range of schools in terms of competitiveness; some of the schools you listed are super competitive and very research focused (Minnesota, UW-Madison, Washington, etc), so you might increase your chances if you applied to mid-tiered schools in addition to the R1 schools.
 
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Thank you for the honesty, i had no idea their funding situation looked like that.

And yes i do realize many of the schools i picked were highly competitive. I went off half-cocked when i began applying in november, thinking mistakenly i understood what was going on. Since reading these boards thoroughly, i realize now how many mistakes i've made and areas i could have done better.

I'm still going to the interview of course for the experience of it, but i had been planning for months now a back-up plan to re-take the GREs and get more research experience anyway, and i may take that course after all as it sounds like your suggestion was in a similar vein.
 
The one thing I will say about SPU is that their funding is almost non-existent. I interviewed there last year (and was accepted), but I just couldn't get past the amount of debt that their students typically incur. Their tuition is around $30,000 a year with little to no funding opportunities (you might get a RA/TA position for a couple of years, but it doesn't come with a tuition waiver so you're still taking out loans).

According to their Educational Outcome Data, tuition is $697/credit...and the program is 199 credits: $139k just in tuition. Unless a significant amount of that tuition is waived, then the cost of attendance seems untenable.
 
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According to their Educational Outcome Data, tuition is $697/credit...and the program is 199 credits: $139k just in tuition. Unless a significant amount of that tuition is waived, then the cost of attendance seems untenable.

My idea there was the potential for HPSP in air force or navy, i was attracted to that idea, still am actually. Though that idea is very conflicted with my interest and desire to study forensic psychology, but that's an entirely different problem i have :scared:
 
Hi all,

My background is in applied behavior analysis, and for this reason I only chose to apply to PhD programs with a behavioral orientation. I am currently an undergrad at University of Florida working with Dr. Iwata. Fortunately, I received interviews at the two PhD programs I applied to: University of Florida (Dept. of Psychology, Phd in Psychology, Behavior Analysis Area - Supervisor: Dr. Iwata) and University of Oregon (College of Ed, PhD in School Psych, Supervisors: Dr. Kodak & Dr. Anderson).

Hypothetically speaking, if you were accepted at both of these institutions/programs which one would you pick, and why? Let me know if you need more info. I appreciate any replies in advance.


Thanks!
 
Hi everyone,

I'm a long time lurker and first time poster. First of all, I just wanted to say that I feel the advice I found on SDN really helped me clinch an acceptance. So thank you everyone! My question is about declining offers from other programs. How should I word the emails (or should I do it by phone?) I've accepted an offer at UW-Madison (PhD School Psych) and wish to decline two other offers. It's tough because I really liked the faculty at these other programs too. I know it's nothing personal, though. Any feedback would be awesome
 
Here is my predicament.

1. Research position at a well-known hospital. Pharma studies, fMRI stuff, longitudinal data they need analyzed, and additional experience interviewing/testing. Experience gained in neuroimaging and MORE neuropsych testing experience. Work would be with bipolar disorder and autism primarily.Pay decent, full time benefits.

2. Psy.D. from a university- I hope I wasn't sold on this too easily. But being at a university, some funding is available and the school does have a positive reputation as a psy.d. program. Opportunities to do limited research and discussion about how a few of their students within the past few years have obtained good post-doc positions in neuropsych.

I really don't know what to do. This was my second year of applying to Ph.D. programs and this time I decided to include other programs. I already had research experience in the form of four publications (never first or second author) and posters. The job might give me the edge I need next time. But at the same time I have options for the mentioned program, a not yet APA accredited Ph.D. with a chance of being accredited while I am a student, and a Ph.D. in counseling that is APA accredited and a bird in the hand is supposed to be worth more than two in the bush.....I would be back to this point in three years after the grant dries up at this hospital.

Please help me decide between accepting a Psy.d. now or doing the research work for a few years and being a 33 year old just starting his Ph.D. I've considered working with my master's but I would like to ultimately end up in the state where my family lives and the rules they have with master's degrees are very limiting. I'd also like to point out that I have not received any official acceptances only a job offer. Any opinions on IUP would also be helpful since they would help me decide. I just don't know as much as the seasoned veterans on this website.
 
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Hi everyone,

I'm a long time lurker and first time poster. First of all, I just wanted to say that I feel the advice I found on SDN really helped me clinch an acceptance. So thank you everyone! My question is about declining offers from other programs. How should I word the emails (or should I do it by phone?) I've accepted an offer at UW-Madison (PhD School Psych) and wish to decline two other offers. It's tough because I really liked the faculty at these other programs too. I know it's nothing personal, though. Any feedback would be awesome

In general, I'd say just stick with the facts. If it were me, I'd essentially mention just what you've already pointed out--that you truly enjoyed your time during interviews, but that you would like to respectfully decline their offers, as you have accepted a position elsewhere. It happens every year, so faculty should be very used to it.
 
In general, I'd say just stick with the facts. If it were me, I'd essentially mention just what you've already pointed out--that you truly enjoyed your time during interviews, but that you would like to respectfully decline their offers, as you have accepted a position elsewhere. It happens every year, so faculty should be very used to it.

Thanks for the feedback. I let the other programs know. It was tough but I made a good choice. Initially, I was concerned with burning bridges and damaging potential collegial relationships. Everything seemed to work out though!
 
Here's my situation: I just got accepted into Wright State's PsyD program, which was extremely exciting, but my dilemma is that they need an answer by March 1, 2013. The difficulty with that is that I have two more interviews (one of which is my #1, Marshall University) that aren't until the 2nd and 3rd week of March. I'm really flattered that Wright wants me, I know its a fantastic program, but I am already well established at Marshall University's masters program.

Can I accept Wright's invitation, and then back out once I hear from Marshall (which I have a really good chance for acceptance from)?

Help!!
 
I was under the impression that accepting an offer is a binding agreement, but I could be wrong. At the very least, you'll be burning bridges by backing out on that school, so I wouldn't recommend doing that.
 
I was under the impression that accepting an offer is a binding agreement, but I could be wrong. At the very least, you'll be burning bridges by backing out on that school, so I wouldn't recommend doing that.

I agree. The big risk for me is turning down a program, and then not being accepted to the one I am holding out for.
 
Do you need to sign some sort of document to accept Wright's offer? That's a tough situation.. How confident do you feel about getting into the other program? You could potentially screw yourself over if you decline Wright and your other choice says no. Why do they need to know by March 1? I thought the national deadline was 4/15
 
Do you need to sign some sort of document to accept Wright's offer? That's a tough situation.. How confident do you feel about getting into the other program? You could potentially screw yourself over if you decline Wright and your other choice says no. Why do they need to know by March 1? I thought the national deadline was 4/15

I have to sign a letter that says that I am enrolling the program in the fall of 2013. I'm about 95% confident about getting accepted into Marshall's program (realistically, with my MA from them I am already 3/5 through the program and 3 of my letters of rec. came from the admission committee members). My fear is that I will screw myself, like you said. Wright is a great program, but its not my #1. They told me that they made the deadline March 1 so that they could get their top picks, but on the flip side of that we dont get a chance to consider other programs because I know a lot of other programs have not even interviewed yet. I really dont like them trying to force my decision on a program that I'm not fully committed to, but its almost foolish to turn it down.

I was hoping that there would be a way for me to accept at Wright, and then back out later when I hear from Marshall, but I dont know.
 
Since Wright State is an APA accredited program, you are by law allowed to hold an offer until 4/15. They are not allowed to revoke an offer before this deadline. Did they tell you what they would do if you didn't sign the agreement by 3/1? If they really have a stipulation that they're going to take away the offer by 3/1 unless you agree to attend, you should get that in writing and report it to the APA.
 
Since Wright State is an APA accredited program, you are by law allowed to hold an offer until 4/15. They are not allowed to revoke an offer before this deadline. Did they tell you what they would do if you didn't sign the agreement by 3/1? If they really have a stipulation that they're going to take away the offer by 3/1 unless you agree to attend, you should get that in writing and report it to the APA.

Thank you for the advice. They told me that the March 1st deadline is "firm" and that "there are many other qualified applicants" waiting for my spot. I am going to speak with them again today to see what I can do. They have made me very leery of their program because of this whole situation. I do not like being forced into a decision.
 
Thank you for the advice. They told me that the March 1st deadline is "firm" and that "there are many other qualified applicants" waiting for my spot. I am going to speak with them again today to see what I can do. They have made me very leery of their program because of this whole situation. I do not like being forced into a decision.

I would absolutely call them and confront them about this. As another poster said, they aren't legally allowed to put pressure on you prior to the 15 of April
 
I would absolutely call them and confront them about this. As another poster said, they aren't legally allowed to put pressure on you prior to the 15 of April

I called the APA and talked to someone in the continuing education department and they said that its up to the schools to decide when they need to know by. I spoke with a faculty member and she gave me the "you have to do what is best for you" speech and I called the secretary and left a message to call me back. So far everyone has said that the March 1st deadline is firm.
 
I called the APA and talked to someone in the continuing education department and they said that its up to the schools to decide when they need to know by.
That's really vague. Of course, they can decide when they "need" to know by and they can tell these dates to those they accepted all day long. What matters is whether they revoke an offer before 4/15. I would call again and ask specifically ask about the school's legal right to retract an offer by 3/1.

I spoke with a faculty member and she gave me the "you have to do what is best for you" speech and I called the secretary and left a message to call me back. So far everyone has said that the March 1st deadline is firm.

Or what? What's the consequence if you don't tell them?

The one thought I have is whether you received an official letter of acceptance from the Graduate School? Or just an informal email? It sounds like they "informally" accept you and only send you an official letter of acceptance after 3/1. Honestly, if they try to screw with their applicants this way, I don't know if you want to attend their program anyway. But again, I'm just guessing here.
 
Hi all,

My background is in applied behavior analysis, and for this reason I only chose to apply to PhD programs with a behavioral orientation. I am currently an undergrad at University of Florida working with Dr. Iwata. Fortunately, I received interviews at the two PhD programs I applied to: University of Florida (Dept. of Psychology, Phd in Psychology, Behavior Analysis Area - Supervisor: Dr. Iwata) and University of Oregon (College of Ed, PhD in School Psych, Supervisors: Dr. Kodak & Dr. Anderson).

Hypothetically speaking, if you were accepted at both of these institutions/programs which one would you pick, and why? Let me know if you need more info. I appreciate any replies in advance.


Thanks!

This isn't my area, but U of Oregon's education department is very impressive. I Can't speak to those faculty/program or anything about Florida.
 
That's really vague. Of course, they can decide when they "need" to know by and they can tell these dates to those they accepted all day long. What matters is whether they revoke an offer before 4/15. I would call again and ask specifically ask about the school's legal right to retract an offer by 3/1.



Or what? What's the consequence if you don't tell them?

The one thought I have is whether you received an official letter of acceptance from the Graduate School? Or just an informal email? It sounds like they "informally" accept you and only send you an official letter of acceptance after 3/1. Honestly, if they try to screw with their applicants this way, I don't know if you want to attend their program anyway. But again, I'm just guessing here.

The consequence is that they revoke their offer. I asked about withdrawing the offer when I spoke to the lady at the APA and she said it was up to the school to decide.

What is the protocol, if any, for accepting an offer, and then backing out if I get into my #1?
 
Hello all. I'm currently considering Adelphi University's Clinical PhD program, Fordham University's Counseling PhD program, and LIU Post's Clinical PsyD. I had a few questions and was wondering if any of you had any insights into:

Choosing between a more "balanced" school and a school with a targeted theoretical orientation (i.e. Psychodynamic only or CBT only).Adelphi is very psycho dynamic, and although I don't feel 100% comfortable committing to a program that only offers one orientation it's a strong program with solid match rates. I'm conflicted.

QUESTIONS:
How did all of you make that call re: orientation so early on before your training has even begun?

Does anybody have recommendations on materials/books I could look into that explain more about psychodynamic therapy? Something that would help me make an educated decision?

Also, what have you all heard about each one of these programs? I'd be interested to know of their reputations outside of their current student/faculty body.

Thanks so much!
 
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Id pick up a book like Freud and Beyond by Stephen Mitchell to give you a sense of the kinds of theories and readings you'll be doing in a psychodynamic program. This article is an oversimplification of what makes psychodynamic training different, but not a terrible place to start.

Some people make decisions based on their own readings, mentors, research interests, or even personal experiences in therapy. Others may have experience as master's level clinicians. I wouldn't advise against a psychodynamic only education, (others here would) but you should definitely be aware of what you are getting yourself into with that. You may want/need to be proactive in seeking some outside training in CBT if you attend a strict psychodynamic program. There's really only a handful of programs like that left in the country.

I know all those programs are quite expensive, and so is living in the new york area. This should factor heavily into your decision IMO. As far as general reputation, my limited experience as a professional in NY leads me to believe they are similar, with Adelphi having a better than average reputation among dynamically minded folks.
 
Alright, I've been mulling over this for weeks and now I need to ask for your thoughts:

USUHS mil track clinical PhD or civilian PhD and apply to military for hpsp/intern/direct later?
 
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Hello all. I'm currently considering Adelphi University's Clinical PhD program, Fordham University's Counseling PhD program, and LIU Post's Clinical PsyD. I had a few questions and was wondering if any of you had any insights into:

Choosing between a more "balanced" school and a school with a targeted theoretical orientation (i.e. Psychodynamic only or CBT only).Adelphi is very psycho dynamic, and although I don't feel 100% comfortable committing to a program that only offers one orientation it's a strong program with solid match rates. I'm conflicted.

QUESTIONS:
How did all of you make that call re: orientation so early on before your training has even begun?

Does anybody have recommendations on materials/books I could look into that explain more about psychodynamic therapy? Something that would help me make an educated decision?

Also, what have you all heard about each one of these programs? I'd be interested to know of their reputations outside of their current student/faculty body.

Thanks so much!
i would consider whether or not you're interested in being in nyc long-term? NYC is a very psychodynamically-oriented place. People love their analysts here!
 
Thanks so much for the recommendation, the book is already en route to me via Amazon. Appreciate you taking the time to help, I have a lot to think about and you make very good points!
 
I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right area since the PsyD and MSW forums are split, but I figured I'd start here.

A bit of background-I'm graduating with a BA in Psych and a BSW in May. My professional goal has always been to do therapy,specifically focussing on dual diagnosis issues and eating disorders. Recently though, I've developed an interest in forensic psych and working with offenders with mental illness. The past couple of summers I've gotten some great research experience and love that element of the field, but still don't know how much I want to incorporate research into my career. I know eventually I want to work my way up to some sort of administrative role.

My options-
UPenn's MSW-It will just be 1yr for me graduate with my MSW, and the program will let me do electives from Penn's different schools which could be beneficial (ie-since the idea of private practice is something I've always thought of, I could take a couple business classes at Wharton). I have a couple of concerns with the MSW-1. pay. I don't need much to live, if I were to bring in 50k a yr, I'd be satisfied. But, with an MSW, I don't know if 50k would happen. My second concern is, since I would only be in the program for a year, I'm nervous I'd miss out on some important training. Though, Penn does have a great postgrad CBT training program available, which could help address my concern over training. I'll also add in that Penn is offering my around $15k in scholarship money, but tuition isn't a huge concern because I have a trust fund specifically for education.

Pacific University's PsyD-This is not a funded program, and the max non-loan aid is 9k while tuition is 30k/yr. There are many red flags that I see with the program size as a cohort size of around 60 (57 last yr), 49% APA/CPA internship match rate, and attrition rates of around 15% (though last years attrition was historically low at 7%). Again, tuition, not a huge concern, but I'd still need to take out loans to live off of (trust fund is tuition and book only, then once I have my degree, I get what's left, and, Pacific would nearly eat it up). I like Pacific's program because they offer specific tracks, which they say makes one more competitive to match, but getting into a track is not a guarantee. Though, my interviewer did say with my experience I would be very competitive to track. I also like the fact that I'd get a lot more training than just a year, and I feel like more doors would be open with a PsyD. Am I right or wrong on that idea? And of course, traditional logic says that higher the degree, the more money but again, I think I may be wrong on that. I like the idea of being able to do assessments, especially given my new interest in forensic psych.

One thought I had was, if I went to Penn then saw a need to continue to a doctorate, I could strengthen my GRE scores and try for a funded or partially funded PsyD program like Rutgers.

As you can see by my novel of a post, I'm swimming in confusion, and if anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks for taking the time to read!
 
I recently have been accepted into Florida Institute of Technology and just interviewed at Nova Southeastern University. After doing research and realizing that the reality of pay is a median of 75K a year for those with a psy d (correct me if I'm wrong), is it really worth to go into 150K of debt for this degree?

My total goal is to be a cognitive behavioral therapist which I know can be done with a Master's but those aren't good paying jobs either from what I've heard.

If someone knows of the average salaries because I keep coming across the same numbers, that'd be great. Also, if anyone who is currently in the program or those who have graduated could tell me if the debt is worth getting in terms of what your income is now.

Thanks!
 
I recently have been accepted into Florida Institute of Technology and just interviewed at Nova Southeastern University. After doing research and realizing that the reality of pay is a median of 75K a year for those with a psy d (correct me if I'm wrong), is it really worth to go into 150K of debt for this degree?

My total goal is to be a cognitive behavioral therapist which I know can be done with a Master's but those aren't good paying jobs either from what I've heard.

If someone knows of the average salaries because I keep coming across the same numbers, that'd be great. Also, if anyone who is currently in the program or those who have graduated could tell me if the debt is worth getting in terms of what your income is now. Also figure that you may not be able to attain that 75K per year for awhile.

BTW, I hear that Nova is actually a fairly decent program (as far as professional schools go). Not sure about FIT.

Thanks!

The 'rule of thumb' I've heard repeated (and this sounds like a good place to start) is that if you can't expect your first year's starting salary to be at least what you owe in student loan principal, then it's not worth it, no. Based on that, you'd need to cap your expected debt at half of the figure quoted above at the most.
 
If all you want to do is therapy, then I suggest you go the LCSW or LPC route. Reimbursement rates aren't much lower than a doctoral level clinician, you won't accrue nearly as much debt and you'll be able to start working much sooner than if you went the PsyD route.
 
If all you want to do is therapy, then I suggest you go the LCSW or LPC route. Reimbursement rates aren't much lower than a doctoral level clinician, you won't accrue nearly as much debt and you'll be able to start working much sooner than if you went the PsyD route.

If you end up going this route, might want to check on state laws. In my state, LCSW's lobby so well they can virtually do whatever they want. I have a friend who is 2 years removed from getting her LCSW degree, 26 years old, and she has a TT position- dream job for her. Very competative salary. Not too sure about how different it is for LPCs as I'm not around many.

I'm about to go on internship and make 1/4 what my wife (SLP) makes while I'm a 5th year phd student. Don't do any of this for the money, but consider it as a factor.
 
Is it worth it to go into medical school level debt for 1/3 the salary potential?

75K salary is for a median of 10 years of experience with the PsyD (APA data).

Starting salaries are somewhere around 50K (once licensed). Postdoc can range from 25-50K.

We are basically talking about BA level salaries with 150K debt. Totally unsustainable.
 
I agree--I'd be hesitant of any doctoral program suggesting that training can regularly be completed in three years. If nothing else, that's likely not enough time to make you competitive with other applicants on the internship trail in terms of clinical experiences and hours.

While $20k/year is still a hefty sum (especially considering it doesn't include living expenses, which in Chicago could very well come out to another $15-20k/year), it is objectively better than $40-50k/year. I don't know that I'd want to go for either, but that's just me.

I'd be hesitant about any program that says it can be done in FOUR years, let alone three.
 
Hey guys,

I have received offers from Xavier and Marshall's Psy.D programs, and I am having trouble deciding where to go. I like and dislike things about both programs, but I was wondering if anyone had experience with either school that could give me some insight.

Here is what I think about the programs:

Xavier
Pros: Good location, high internship match rates, lots of practica sites for my area of interest, great faculty, opportunities for certificates in business or health administration within electives, lots of research opportunities
Cons: No guaranteed funding after first year, high tuition costs, large cohort, only 3 TA slots for incoming students

Marshall
Pros: Small cohort, cheap tuition, usually funding opportunities, can TA after first year, faculty and students are all really friendly
Cons: Not a ton of practica opportunities in my area of interest, huge focus on rural issues and West Virginia in general (correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm afraid that this might limit my opportunities for internships or jobs later down the road simply because the focus is so narrow), internship match rate is inconsistent, students can do a "doctoral project" instead of a dissertation (just seems not as legitimate as a dissertation)

I would really appreciate any feedback you guys have about either program!

Thanks!
 
Hi all,
I have recently been accepted into both Nova's and Florida Tech's PsyD programs. I have been trying to weigh the pro's and con's and am hoping to get some feedback about the programs from anyone who has been in one, is currently in one, or has some good input about either one. I know they are both expensive, and I know they differ greatly in class size (NSU admitting about 80 students and FIT about 20, both with varying faculty sizes). Each program seems promising and each one has professors that have similar interests as myself. I also have come to realize that it is much cheaper to live in Melbourne than it is in Ft. Lauderdale, and FIT offers RA positions as well as some graduate research scholarship programs.

Any information would be helpful! Thanks!
 
Hi all,
I have recently been accepted into both Nova's and Florida Tech's PsyD programs. I have been trying to weigh the pro's and con's and am hoping to get some feedback about the programs from anyone who has been in one, is currently in one, or has some good input about either one. I know they are both expensive, and I know they differ greatly in class size (NSU admitting about 80 students and FIT about 20, both with varying faculty sizes). Each program seems promising and each one has professors that have similar interests as myself. I also have come to realize that it is much cheaper to live in Melbourne than it is in Ft. Lauderdale, and FIT offers RA positions as well as some graduate research scholarship programs.

Any information would be helpful! Thanks!

I don't know these programs personally. I checked out the outcomes online. FIT has much better outcomes (83-90% complete APA internships vs. 40-50% at Nova). A class size of 80 is outrageous for a doctoral program. The general consensus is that a PsyD is not worth it if you have to pay out of pocket. How much funding does FIT offer? I wouldn't go to either program without funding.
 
Hi all,
I have recently been accepted into both Nova's and Florida Tech's PsyD programs. I have been trying to weigh the pro's and con's and am hoping to get some feedback about the programs from anyone who has been in one, is currently in one, or has some good input about either one. I know they are both expensive, and I know they differ greatly in class size (NSU admitting about 80 students and FIT about 20, both with varying faculty sizes). Each program seems promising and each one has professors that have similar interests as myself. I also have come to realize that it is much cheaper to live in Melbourne than it is in Ft. Lauderdale, and FIT offers RA positions as well as some graduate research scholarship programs.

Any information would be helpful! Thanks!

From what I know of Nova, outcome really depends on who you find as an advisor. I know some of the advisors down there tend to have decent APA placements for their students and others not so much. Also, it's very easy in a class of 80 to get lost in the crowd and I think those students are the ones who have very poor outcomes. And for the finances, yes both are expensive but do keep in mind the cost of living in Ft. Lauderdale will be significantly higher than in Melbourne.

Edit: I just read your part about cost of living.
 
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