High Comat score needed to just pass at my school

[doctor_crane]

Everywhere I try to find advice about shelf exams/comats, all I see is people complaining about wanting honors or to score high.
Well, what if you just want to pass and your school requires a 90 on every comat exam except 1?

Is that a reasonable objective? I’m finding that it seems very easy to jump from a 95 to a 80 by missing just a few questions. The point being, it seems these percentiles are very close to the mean.

I’m having to study almost constantly just to get a 90, but I keep consistently scoring 84-89 and I have to retake 3 exams. However I could just fail one and retake 2. But then I have to pass all of the other ones.

It just seems a bit unreasonable to make the floor in the 15+ percentile range… unless 10th percentile students like me (apparently) all just fail level 2 anyway.

Feel free to give advice, just be nice. I’m kinda lost. I believe I can get over a 90, but I’m not sure how common this is. It is the kind of thing you do not think about when applying to medical school.

I have only been using comquest/combank but I think I may purchase U world, but idk if those questions really are helpful for DO students.

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[deleted1150906]

I too am scoring in the 85-90 range with only one being a 96. Not sure what to do, as I do most of the questions provided in UWORLD and COMBANK

For reference, I was an above average student in pre-clinical years.

 

[hellosnd]

it is harsh but not unreasonable to expect your students to be above that 15th precentile mark to pass.

My school combines ur COMAT score with your rotation evaluation to determine if you passed your rotation. pretty sure we need to pass every rotation to pass the year

Think our break down is
90-100 Pass
100-110 High pass
110+ Honors

 

[deleted1139416]

COMAT scoring is whack. But you’re probably half way through 3rd year, right? I’m willing to bet that COMAT scores tend to improve as the year goes on.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Everywhere I try to find advice about shelf exams/comats, all I see is people complaining about wanting honors or to score high.
Well, what if you just want to pass and your school requires a 90 on every comat exam except 1?

Is that a reasonable objective? I’m finding that it seems very easy to jump from a 95 to a 80 by missing just a few questions. The point being, it seems these percentiles are very close to the mean.

I’m having to study almost constantly just to get a 90, but I keep consistently scoring 84-89 and I have to retake 3 exams. However I could just fail one and retake 2. But then I have to pass all of the other ones.

It just seems a bit unreasonable to make the floor in the 15+ percentile range… unless 10th percentile students like me (apparently) all just fail level 2 anyway.

Feel free to give advice, just be nice. I’m kinda lost. I believe I can get over a 90, but I’m not sure how common this is. It is the kind of thing you do not think about when applying to medical school.

I have only been using comquest/combank but I think I may purchase U world, but idk if those questions really are helpful for DO students.

15%ile is a very reasonable passing mark and I am unaware of any DO school with a passing line below that..

Honest advice, if you are consistently scoring that low you have very real knowledge deficits and are are serious risk of failing Level 2. I suggest meeting with a learning counselor and figuring out why you are consistently struggling with the content.

 

[Ho0v-man]

These are not high numbers.

Also, you shouldn’t be aiming to just pass. Maybe like one terrible rotation like a bad OB/GYN rotation and you’re going psych and just trying to get through…okay sure.

But straight P’s with no HP’s or H’s is kind of a red flag.

If you’re consistently scoring this low, you will likely struggle with level 2 and are at risk of failing. You should be trying to murder these shelf exams.

 

[deleted1139416]

15%ile is a very reasonable passing mark and I am unaware of any DO school with a passing line below that..

Honest advice, if you are consistently scoring that low you have very real knowledge deficits and are are serious risk of failing Level 2. I suggest meeting with a learning counselor and figuring out why you are consistently struggling with the content.

These are not high numbers.

Also, you shouldn’t be aiming to just pass. Maybe like one terrible rotation like a bad OB/GYN rotation and you’re going psych and just trying to get through…okay sure.

But straight P’s with no HP’s or H’s is kind of a red flag.

If you’re consistently scoring this low, you will likely struggle with level 2 and are at risk of failing. You should be trying to murder these shelf exams.

I do agree though that something is messed up with the way COMATs are scored. People are my school who topped the class in the first two years are even saying how hard it is to do really well. I’m wondering if it’s because most schools have stopped proctoring it so cheating has skyrocketed or something.

 

[deleted1139416]

15%ile is a very reasonable passing mark and I am unaware of any DO school with a passing line below that..

Honest advice, if you are consistently scoring that low you have very real knowledge deficits and are are serious risk of failing Level 2. I suggest meeting with a learning counselor and figuring out why you are consistently struggling with the content.

Btw I just realized that your username is in reference to the DaVinci Surgical Robot LOL

 

[DOVinciRobot]

I do agree though that something is messed up with the way COMATs are scored. People are my school who topped the class in the first two years are even saying how hard it is to do really well. I’m wondering if it’s because most schools have stopped proctoring it so cheating has skyrocketed or something.

Nothing is messed up with the scoring. The COMATs are scored based off of that specific cohort. Your score is simply where you were in relation to everyone else who also took the same test.

Our annual in service exam is scored the same way

 

[deleted1139416]

Nothing is messed up with the scoring. The COMATs are scored based off of that specific cohort. Your score is simply where you were in relation to everyone else who also took the same test.

Our annual in service exam is scored the same way

You don’t think cheating has shifted the average?

 

[hellosnd]

You don’t think cheating has shifted the average?

There was a study about this, they saw like a +2 point jump. if those two points was going to save you, your fundamental knowledge is still lacking

 

[deleted1150906]

There was a study about this, they saw like a +2 point jump. if those two points was going to save you, your fundamental knowledge is still lacking

But what can one do to increase foundational knowledge. We get it, it's lacking. Is there a way to do that third year alongside studying for COMATs?

 

[deleted1079620]

You don’t think cheating has shifted the average?

I don’t event see how anyone could significantly cheat on a COMAT. They only give you 70 sec per question.

 

[Neopolymath]

But what can one do to increase foundational knowledge. We get it, it's lacking. Is there a way to do that third year alongside studying for COMATs?

Yeah, there isn't really a good way to say this without coming off harsh but here it goes:

Try. Study more. Whatever you are doing then double it easily. There isn't some secret high yield thing at this level besides putting in more work. You can definitely polish someone up to a 115 from a 100+ score. You can tweak some stuff and make a big jump from a normal baseline medical knowledge. You can't just buff up a score that low. Whatever anyone is doing to score 80-90s has to be like not studying at all if they did ok the first 2 years. If you did poorly the first two years then you unfortunately need to do a million questions to learn the basics of medicine which should really be your first couple days on a service max not the whole month.

Each comat has dumb questions but it also has mostly really easy/predictable questions besides FM. For example, getting an 80-90 on the surgery shelf means that you literally didn't study hepatobillary at all.

Any more specific advice would require actual details on how you did first 2 years and what you are currently doing to see what's realistic and what is adjustable.

 

[Neopolymath]

I don’t event see how anyone significantly could cheat on a COMAT. They only give you 70 sec per question.

It's just rationalization. The few questions I missed when I took each one I couldn't even look up afterwards to get the real answer with unlimited time because they didn't exist lol.
That's definitely not why someone with severe deficits isn't doing well. Someone going from 110 to 115 cheating isn't the thing holding someone back.

 

[deleted1079620]

But what can one do to increase foundational knowledge. We get it, it's lacking. Is there a way to do that third year alongside studying for COMATs?

I would start with the Dr. High Yield or Emma Holliday video on each COMAT. Those are about 1-2 hrs each & give a great outline of topics covered on each shelf. If there’s anything you don’t understand or remember from those, go look up those topics and read about them. If you’re asked a pimp question you don’t know on rotations, look it up. AMBOSS also has high yield topics for each clerkship, and if you’re an Anki user either anking step 2 or cheesy Dorian work well to cover all the COMAT material.

Make sure you cover a qbank for each shelf…I’m of the opinion that’s there no perfect bank, so use whatever you’ve already paid for, get through the whole thing the week before the exam, go through your incorrects, and make sure you understand every topic covered. Make Anki cards if you want on stuff you miss.

For books, I like the Case Files series for FM, Peds, & OBGYN, First Aid for Psych, & Pestansa’s Surgery Notes.

 

[Kardio]

I have only been using comquest/combank but I think I may purchase U world, but idk if those questions really are helpful for DO students.

Please do yourself a favor and immediately switch to UWorld. Study every single incorrect (and correct) answer explanation, flowchart, diagram, and table like your life depends on it.

Afterwards, go back and do some comquest/bank questions for an ego hummer.

 

[television]

If you cannot get 90+ on a COMAT, you do not deserve to pass.

Use UWorld. Actually learn from each question. Get everything down cold. Stop looking for excuses.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If you cannot get 90+ on a COMAT, you do not deserve to pass.

Use UWorld. Actually learn from each question. Get everything down cold. Stop looking for excuses.

But then why isn't 90 the minimum score then? Minimum scores should exist for a reason. Schools arbitrarily changing that minimum score is kinda BS

 

[DOVinciRobot]

But then why isn't 90 the minimum score then? Minimum scores should exist for a reason. Schools arbitrarily changing that minimum score is kinda BS

What? Minimum score =\ passing score. It’s just a curve. Our in training exams are scored the same way, and different programs have different percentile cutoffs for what is considered passing..

I don’t know of a single DO school that has a passing cutoff below 90.

 

[deleted859689]

I know a school cutoff is 80.

 

[Niwrad]

I do agree though that something is messed up with the way COMATs are scored. People are my school who topped the class in the first two years are even saying how hard it is to do really well. I’m wondering if it’s because most schools have stopped proctoring it so cheating has skyrocketed or something.

Omg this is so fking true esp due to the pandemic and virtual learning. Like wtf my percentile rank went down by like 75 percent pre and post pandemic. I thought I was ******ed or something for a while then realized that, wait a minute, these shelf exams are completely BS cause even if you are required to install literal spyware on your testing laptop and your mobile device so they can monitor you in your room behind you and your screen in front of you you’re still testing virtually and if you realize that med students are probably the smartest group of students in the world they’ll find some way to cheat.

So if the school doesn’t even bother to do all of the aforementioned then I came to the conclusion that test scores don’t necessarily indicate level of knowledge.

 

[Swiddy]

I do agree though that something is messed up with the way COMATs are scored. People are my school who topped the class in the first two years are even saying how hard it is to do really well. I’m wondering if it’s because most schools have stopped proctoring it so cheating has skyrocketed or something.

At a DO school, topping your class the first two years means you focused on lecture material, not boards material, so I would not expect them to do really well, with few exceptions (the people who grind hard enough to do both). Ask the people who matured Anking the first two years and were happy just passing classes how they have felt.

 

[hellosnd]

Omg this is so fking true esp due to the pandemic and virtual learning. Like wtf my percentile rank went down by like 75 percent pre and post pandemic. I thought I was ******ed or something for a while then realized that, wait a minute, these shelf exams are completely BS cause even if you are required to install literal spyware on your testing laptop and your mobile device so they can monitor you in your room behind you and your screen in front of you you’re still testing virtually and if you realize that med students are probably the smartest group of students in the world they’ll find some way to cheat.

So if the school doesn’t even bother to do all of the aforementioned then I came to the conclusion that test scores don’t necessarily indicate level of knowledge.

Copium is real with this one

 

[Niwrad]

Copium is real with this one

It's as if coping is somehow a negative trait? Just commenting that @HipiMochi brought up something that is hard to measure and likely will never be answered.

If the average scores are cohort based, and if the exams for that cohort were virtual, then it's certainly possible that cheating may have shifted the average score way up.

 

[hellosnd]

It's as if coping is somehow a negative trait? Just commenting that @HipiMochi brought up something that is hard to measure and likely will never be answered.

If the average scores are cohort based, and if the exams for that cohort were virtual, then it's certainly possible that cheating may have shifted the average score way up.

https://www.nbome.org/wp-content/up...-and-Self-Proctored-COMAT-Clinical-Scores.pdf This is comparing proctored vs not but I doubt there is a huge diff between in-person and web-based. you don't have enough time to cheat, meaningfully cheat to improve score

 

[Mr.Confused]

84-89 is the score you get not the percent they use to calculate your grades right?

 

[ManOfDingle]

These are not high numbers.

Also, you shouldn’t be aiming to just pass. Maybe like one terrible rotation like a bad OB/GYN rotation and you’re going psych and just trying to get through…okay sure.

But straight P’s with no HP’s or H’s is kind of a red flag.

If you’re consistently scoring this low, you will likely struggle with level 2 and are at risk of failing. You should be trying to murder these shelf exams.

Just having P's is a red flag? My school only has pass or honors with honors being at the 112 cutoff. Unfortunately, I have scored 2 through 4 points lower than a 112 on my comats and have only passes on my transcript.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Just having P's is a red flag? My school only has pass or honors with honors being at the 112 cutoff. Unfortunately, I have scored 2 through 4 points lower than a 112 on my comats and have only passes on my transcript.

Unfortunately, yes. The bar at your school is pretty high for honors. When people review an app with straight passes it reads “So this person usually shows up on time.”

 

[ManOfDingle]

How unfortunate haha. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Niwrad]

Reminds me of a big disadvantage with true P/F grading

 

[Ho0v-man]

How unfortunate haha. Thanks for the reply.

Sorry but just trying to be honest. Saw your other thread. I agree with the advice in that thread. If you can get the numbers and nail auditions, you’re still in it.

 

[hellosnd]

Reminds me of a big disadvantage with true P/F grading

From a DO program. If you were a school like Harvard or UCSF, a P would be amazing

 

[ManOfDingle]

Sorry but just trying to be honest. Saw your other thread. I agree with the advice in that thread. If you can get the numbers and nail auditions, you’re still in it.

I appreciate the honesty! Thank you for the encouragement. I'm hoping to do well on step 2/comlex 2 and auditions!

 

[PorkChopsOG]

How unfortunate haha. Thanks for the reply.

Nah man, passing everything is not a red flag. I had all passes because KCU required something like 90th percentile on their shelf exam to honor a rotation. In fact, most of my friends didn't honor anything. This complete subjectivity to 3rd year grades is well known. It was never brought up at any of my many, many interviews.