How is math used in research and clinical medicine?

[noroxytocin]

Hi. I'm a premed student, and I'm taking calculus right now. One of the things that motivates me more than anything else in school is knowing that what I'm studying is either useful and/or interesting. So I was wondering how I might be using calculus in the future, and also so I would remember it better in the future. Right now I only know that it is useful in economics, so that is what I remember most about it. What other kinds of math are commonly used? Also, do people usually hire people specifically to do math, or does it make you a lot better to be able to do most or all of it?

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[noolsy]

Statistics is huge in research. Being able to understand stats really well would be especially useful for folks going into bioinformatics (genome/transcriptome/those kinds of studies where they use a lot of modeling to characterize cell types, for example) -- but for all areas of research, really. Or at least this is my understanding. Maybe someone with more experience can chime in/correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[noroxytocin]

How do they use it to characterize cell types? Thanks for the reply.

 

[Glammyre]

I hope a DVM/PhD student is allowed to play over here...

I agree with @noolsy about statistics. If you enter a research program, you will almost certainly be taking an advanced statistics course. You probably won't run many of the calculations yourself, but you need to understand what is being calculated and how to interpret the results.

On a smaller scale, multiplication and division for determining dilutions is crucial in my (basic sciences) research and in clinics. When a dog is seizing in Emergency, I'll need to work out a diazepam dosage accurately and quickly.

I'm not certain about calculus, but area under the curve is used in a few different assays. I calculate the area under a blood glucose curve to calculate insulin resistance, for example.

As far as hiring - I think most major research centers have statisticians on board to help you out. However, being able to do the basic tests will save you a lot of time. And (in vet med) while you might have someone double-check your dosage calculations in clinics, eventually you'll probably be on your own.

 

[noroxytocin]

That's cool. I've never heard of someone having DVM and PhD degrees together. How do the degrees help each other? I'm glad you said the area under a curve is useful for assays, since I'm most interested in neuroendocrinology.

 

[Glammyre]

Hey, sorry for the delay in replying.

I can't be certain, but I'm guessing they overlap in much the same way that an MD/PhD degree would do. My DVM will give me a good background in general medicine while my PhD will allow me to dive in-depth into a topic of interest. It's not for everyone, but I personally have never been interested in the typical private practitioner path for the DVM.

I'm going to walk you through my specific case instead of a general DVM/PhD guide. I think everyone enters the program for their own reasons. In my case, I'd like to enter public health fields. My DVM degree will give me an excellent background in general medicine, especially zoonotic diseases and infectious disease theory in general (I've heard DVM emphasizes more infectious, especially parasitology, while MD has more about gerontology, genetics, and oncology). It can also give me some clinical experience so that I'm better able to apply what I learn in the lab to practicing medicine in the field.

My PhD is (roughly) about studying heart disease and diabetes. I'm using animal models, but the eventual research is aimed more at these diseases in humans. The PhD will allow me to explore these chronic diseases from something a little closer to a human medical perspective. I also appreciate getting to meet physicians at conferences and hear about the human medicine side. The diseases may function the same, but the medicine is a little different when the patient can understand you and administer their own treatment.

As far as area under the curve... I'm really not familiar with it outside of the glucose tolerance assay. I'm betting it's used in other assays. I would guess that it gets used in pharmacokinetics a lot (calculating rate of change?), but I really don't know. I would try to find some neuroendocrinology experts and ask them.

 

[noroxytocin]

Interesting. So do you specifically want to learn a lot about infectious disease and diabetes? They both sound interesting, but like they wouldn't really go together.

 

[Shifty B]

People are dodging the questions. The answers are simple:

How much math is used in research? a ton
How much math is used in clinical medicine? none

 

[noroxytocin]

Are you serious? I'm not trying to say that you're wrong at all because you know a lot more about this than I do, but why would there be such a paradox? Is it that people just don't apply the research, or is it that they only take the non-mathematic aspects of it? And should clinicians be using mathematics even though they don't? Or is it that the researchers use math to figure other things out, and it is those things that matter? That is a very interesting and potentially useful answer.

 

[Glammyre]

@noroxytocin ,

I'd like to think about my interests as two different sides of public health. On the one hand, my veterinary training will give me a good start in understanding infectious diseases and how to treat groups instead of individuals. On the other hand, my PhD will give me a good understanding of chronic diseases of public health importance such as diabetes and heart disease.

infectious diseases per se aren't my specific field of interest. I was just trying to give some examples of how a veterinary education can contribute to an understanding of human public health issues.

Also, @Shifty B, I'm just curious - how much is that true in human medicine? I realize veterinary medicine likely involves more economics (business side of running your own clinic) and dosage calculations (adult Chihuahua dose vs. adult Labrador dose), but wouldn't you still need math for calculating sensitive dosages such as fluid replacement therapy, insulin, or chemotherapy?

 

[noroxytocin]

That makes sense. Are you eventually planning on getting an MPH as well, or do the other degrees give you enough traction for that? Also, why did you choose to get a DVM instead of an MD if you're planning on going into public health?

 

[zsetry]

For calculus specifically, I know that in studying proteins important in disease using spectroscopy such as NMR then advanced knowledge of differential equations etc. is routinely required to understand what is going on and how you are obtaining any data from the technique. I also know that knowledge of calculus is important in some advanced statistics used in medical research such as when you are doing maximum likelihood analysis and want to find the maximum likelihood via differentiation or the confidence interval via integration (although the integration I did for this was usually with numerical methods in matlab...so maybe doesn't count).

 

[Glammyre]

@noroxytocin, when I started looking at professional schools, I wasn't interested in public health. I originally chose veterinary school because I was interested in pathology and wanted to learn about a variety of species instead of just one. After I joined, I because interested in public health and learned about research opportunities like the dual-degree program. As it is, I am still interested in a multi-species approach to public health. This makes me glad that I am in veterinary school and I, personally, wouldn't want to change to medical school at this point.

As far as an MPH goes, I will get one if it is required. As it is, I'm hoping that I can aim my PhD far enough in a public health direction that I won't have to. As I understand it, veterinarians typically require an MPH to work in public health, physicians don't, and PhDs may or may not depending on their field.

@zsetry, thank you for getting us back on topic. I'm glad to hear that advanced research uses more calculus. I'll find uses for those undergrad advanced math courses yet!