In the final year, can one work full time as an intern? In addition to the rotations what do you do in the final year?
How many hours a week is a APPE rotation?
- Thread starter Altary
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,368
- Reaction score
- 1,002
It may be different for other schools, but mine says we are to do 40 hours per week of APPE and log our hours, if we are deficient on our hours we can't graduate. The 40 hours per week is the minimum as you may have to stay longer and you typically aren't able to count lunch breaks (just like a real job). Your schedule can vary too. Some places have me come in 9-5:30, others I have to be there at 6-7am due to clinical rounds.
I wouldn't expect to work full time during APPE, will likely be physically impossible. At most you could maybe do some weekends. I'd check with your program though, it may be different other places.
I wouldn't expect to work full time during APPE, will likely be physically impossible. At most you could maybe do some weekends. I'd check with your program though, it may be different other places.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2011
- Messages
- 625
- Reaction score
- 208
A rotation is supposed to be 8 hours a day, 40 a week but sites can force you to stay beyond 8 hours easily because of your job duties. You cannot work full time your APPE year. Final year is just rotations and maybe apply for residency.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2012
- Messages
- 743
- Reaction score
- 202
You might be able to work full-time during any off-blocks, but you won't be able to work full-time during a rotation. In my previous hospital, fourth year students were PRN, and would work about one shift per month.
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2011
- Messages
- 321
- Reaction score
- 138
Maybe if you did a double and worked all day Saturday and Sunday and then some hours throughout the week...but yeah it would be pretty hard.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,881
- Reaction score
- 1,849
Depends on the hours of the rotation. You'll be expected to work 40 hours a week (or at least most schools require a minimum of 40 hours a week) at your site and don't forget to factor in travel time. I once had a medicine rotation that was 7am-3pm but was also an hour and a half away from my apartment. Wake up at 4:30, take a shower, leave at 5:30, arrive at 7, leave the pharmacy at 3, and get home at 4:30. Don't forget all of the projects your site and university will require you to complete. No way in hell could I have a full time job while being away 4:30am-4:30pm.
Though some rotations let you off earlier than others (2PM vs 5PM), full-time work might not be in the works. No reason why you can't work part-time, either evenings (depending on when shifts start), or a weekend here and there.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,881
- Reaction score
- 1,849
Why would you do that?
It will change every block. Some will be an easy 8-4 M-F, and you can work 4:30-close plus weekends, but don't count on that. The retail rotation you'll probably follow whatever rotating schedule your preceptor has, so that's tough to plan around, but if your work is flexible you can make it happen.
I apologize for asking such a wide-open question, but what kinds of things do pharmacy students typically do/learn during an APPE rotation, and how do they contrast from "standard" rotations?
Also, I've heard that pharmacy students are advised to work as grad interns during pharmacy school, but it obviously doesn't sound like it's particularly feasible (based on what I've read thus far in this thread) to do that during a semester when you've got an APPE rotation. So with that being said, when do most pharmacy students begin working regular-ish hours as grad interns? Thanks...
Also, I've heard that pharmacy students are advised to work as grad interns during pharmacy school, but it obviously doesn't sound like it's particularly feasible (based on what I've read thus far in this thread) to do that during a semester when you've got an APPE rotation. So with that being said, when do most pharmacy students begin working regular-ish hours as grad interns? Thanks...
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,368
- Reaction score
- 1,002
A grad-intern usually refers to someone that has their PharmD but not a pharmacist license, if you get hired straight from school you usually work as a grad-intern until you pass boards and get your license (it's usually half pharmacist pay too). If you want to work for one of the chains it's good to intern for one before you graduate as many will hire from within first, but I know plenty of people that got jobs at places they didn't intern at. I interned and work P1 year but quit to focus more on school and school events. Some will work part time P1-P3 year, and then maybe one weekend a month P4 year since you can't work much due to APPE hour requirements. You don't really work regular hours until after you graduate.
Different schools have different APPE's offered, but I believe 5 core APPE's are required by ACPE. Each student will do an inpatient hospital rotation, an internal medicine rotation, a community pharmacy rotation, and 2 others I am forgetting (I have them all scheduled but I don't remember which were mandatory or elective). My school does 10 APPE's and IPPE's through P1-P3 year, we finish exams in May and start APPE in June of P4 year and go until graduation so you don't really have a summer to work that year. An APPE can vary a lot, you can be at some sites where they involve you in everything and push you hard, and others where you feel like supplementary staff. Usually the schools try to crack down on that from what I hear.
You learn a lot on APPE, more than in class in my opinion. It solidifies what you studied in school and lets you basically work as a pharmacist under supervision. Some of my best so far was my inpatient hospital one where I got tons of experience with discharge counselling, reviewing patient cases and making interventions for patients on the floor. It helped me learn more on how healthcare is run too. My community pharmacy rotation I did lots of MTM and was able to verify prescriptions and make the judgement call of if I needed to call the prescriber's office or not (all under supervision, of course. Can't legally verify on my own yet without a license). Did a lot of patient counselling and immunizations. Get info from upperclassman on how their rotations went, they can be hit or miss sometimes. When considering schools ask if you can see their APPE list or where they offer rotations. Schools tied to academic hospitals or in cities with good hospitals will probably have better rotations.
Thanks for breaking it down so thoroughly for me. So when you're doing APPE rotations (especially those that take place in hospital settings), are you actually responsible for sitting down with a particular patient's chart, reviewing their medical conditions, lab values, current meds, etc., and then advising the physician & patient on how their meds should be taken, recommendations that certain drugs or dosages be altered, and so on? Or are you primarily carrying out the same duties of a pharmacist who works in a "traditional" retail setting?
Also, based on your description of most students' fourth-year APPE rotations schedules, I understand that it isn't really feasible to work during that last year. However, is it common to work during the first, second, and third years of pharmacy school? If so, would they still be hired and paid as an intern, or would they basically have to work as a pharmacy tech?
The reason I'm so curious about the feasibility of working throughout pharmacy school (or at least during the first few years) is because I'd be entering pharmacy school with $40-$50k worth of debt that I've racked-up in the PA program I'm currently attending, so it would be nice to be able to start chipping away at the debt ASAP, even if in ever-so-small increments.
40.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2011
- Messages
- 530
- Reaction score
- 81
Currently doing APPEs, and so far it has ranged from as low as 24 hrs/wk to 50 hrs/wk. This doesn't include the amount of time studying at home and completing projects, which adds another 10+ hrs/wk.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2014
- Messages
- 4,098
- Reaction score
- 4,063
at least 40 hours a week, but your hours may vary - for example I know some that you do second shift/over nights, and often weekends are used as make up days. I worked weekends while I was on my rotations, but it is hard to work evenings simply because your rotations take priority, and most employers will not be as flexible with a "come in when you can" attitude. Luckily I had some responsibilities at my job that I could do on my own time. For example during my first three years I worked full time, during my final year I worked about 20-25 hours a week on average.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2014
- Messages
- 4,098
- Reaction score
- 4,063
I hate when people have this attitude. Are some retails type places using students as free labor? yes. But if all you are is free labor, you have a crappy rotation. I have students and it is far from free labor. I spend so much time with my students that it makes me second guess why I take on the responsibility. You should be learning, and learning through working.
so either
1. You have crappy rotations
2. You are part of the entitlement generation who feels they should not have to put their time in,
which is it @VeeSee
My friend I only had 2 meaningful rotations
The rest were all just free labor
Those two rotations should've been enough to earn the degree
You are a better preceptor than most, I have only had one preceptor actually spend time one on one with me and that was only for about an hour total.
D
deleted723470
On paper, you are obligated to be at site and document on e-value 40 hours/week. Now, will you be doing less than 40 hours? Probably. It really just depends on your preceptor and which sites you are at. I have heard 20 hours/week, 30 hours/week, and 40 hours per week. As for myself, I work at Costco and try to squeeze in at least 4 hours a week. Work with your pharmacy manager, and tell them your situation, they should have no problem scheduling you a few hours/week to keep you on payroll. Furthermore, if you want a day or two to work per week, talk to you preceptor, they can be understanding at times and may let you do 10hrs /days x 4 days.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 2,684
- Reaction score
- 443
Each state has a specific number of hours required for licensure. Some or all of those hours are reported by your school in many states. As a preceptor I am supposed to verify that you put in x amount of hours on my rotation. I feel I am pretty reasonable and don't require students to put in crazy hours. M-F ~8-4pm. I can be flexible if you are willing to come in early. Students are not free labor because I spend more time teaching them then they do helping me with my work. I am in a clinical specialty area so that is likely part of the difference. I can do my job much more efficently without having a resident.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2014
- Messages
- 4,098
- Reaction score
- 4,063
You reply answered my questions - you fit both
1. you had crappy rotations
2. You definitely have an entitlement problem - 2 rotations do NOT equal enough education to get a degree
