Huh...Uh. Need some advice as a Canadian.

[LendMeYourDeers]

Um. Hello there SDN.

So I am in a bit of a unique situation. I just finished OMS-1, went pretty. Lowest scores being mid 80, highest being low 90s. Also I can kirksville ya real good.

On a whim from my parents when I first started, who said "lets try and see what happens", I also re applied to Canadian schools. Now, since DO schools operate outside LCME, they don't care/ask about them.

I got an acceptance.

I am very lost on what route to take in terms of my long term goal - to practice Psychiatry in the US.

On one hand, the DO option, assuming I get psych, gets me there quicker. 9 years. 4 DO + 4 US residency + 1 Fellowship (which is allowed by Health Canada under J1). As well, if I wraggle for an H1B, I can use OPT extension to start residency and write Comlex Level 3 while the program gets the paperwork in order. However... Visa. All that is visa, and that's not fun. Also, expensive. Also, I heard Psych NRMP was brutal.

On the other hand, Canada. Takes longer. 11 years. 1 DO + 4 MD + 5 Psych in Canada + 1 fellowship (I could do that here). Its cheaper. Like USD 80,000 cheaper. Its longer. I don't deal with visas when it comes to residency because I would do it there, and getting residency is way more for sure there. I would still need to take Step 1 - 3 if I want to come down here and work, however (Step 3 needed for H1b).

I don't know. Like I said, I want to work and live here in the US. I spent a large part of my childhood - early/mid adolescence where with my family, and collectively we've always wanted to come back to the US.

Any advice?

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[InternistDO]

If you have a way of getting US citizenship through family or marriage or whatever here, I'd say staying in the US would be fine. If not, I'd say Canada. You can always take the Steps and come down later, or take them throughout your schooling in Canada. I've known students who had a repeat years due to visa problems, others who almost did but the paperwork came at the last minute, and of course some residency programs won't sponsor visas at all. You don't need that kind of stress while trying to study and match.

 

[Jinxapotato]

As an immigrant who was on H1B in my previous life, if I were in your shoes I'll go the Canadian route.
Have you had to deal with the immigration stuff before, other than the F1 you probably have right now?
It's a nightmare. Seriously. I don't think I can deal with that stress AND medical school + residency application all at the same time. You know Trump is trying to get rid of H1B right? It's looking bad for people who are trying to immigrate here. When I applied for H1B 10 years ago, the cap was reached on the first freaking day. There's even less number of Visas now.
Which means, even if you beat all the odds and get a residency that would sponsor you, you may end up not getting the H1B because the USCIS received more number of H1B applications than the cap allows.
I don't know how things are these days and I may be completely off. But even thinking about dealing with it again, and possibly w/ my medical career on the line gives me cold sweat.

Sounds like you are a good student. Still, trying to get the H1B visa, AND being a DO in post-merger, you've got a stack going against you. Besides, Psych is becoming more competitive.
Think about the pros and cons.

Stay in DO school: Pros: Could match and practice in USA. Cons: Could go through 4 years training, $400k debt, and never become a practicing physician.

Go to Canadian Med school: Pros: Save money, not worry about visa. You WILL become a physician. (also, no more OPP) Cons: practice in Canada.

I guess it comes down to what's more important to you. Practicing in USA, or becoming a doctor itself.
If practicing in USA is more important, I guess it's worth the gamble then.

Good luck man. I feel for you

physicians are not subject to the H1B cap, so that doesn't apply, even it hits the cap first 60 seconds after openning, residency programs can still get you H1B as long as they want to.
as for J1, you can either do a 1 year fellowship, and go back to Canada, or just do a J1 waiver job, there are states that literally NEVER fill their quota, it's 3 years working in underserved area under H1b, and they give you greencard after the 3 years.

PS: I am a Canadian OMS3, I know the struggle, but from what I've seen there are ways out of it, visit "Osteopathic Medicine (DO) for Canadians" group on FB, every single one of us in that group is Canadian, studying DO in US, everybody before us made it one way or another. However heychloe is right about the possibility of H1B going away, so be prepared to go on a J1 and work the waiver if you want to stay in the States.

 

[heychloe]

physicians are not subject to the H1B cap, so that doesn't apply, even it hits the cap first 60 seconds after openning, residency programs can still get you H1B as long as they want to.
as for J1, you can either do a 1 year fellowship, and go back to Canada, or just do a J1 waiver job, there are states that literally NEVER fill their quota, it's 3 years working in underserved area under H1b, and they give you greencard after the 3 years..

That's great! I'm happy for you guys. Best of luck! Rooting for yall

 

[Giovanotto]

physicians are not subject to the H1B cap, so that doesn't apply, even it hits the cap first 60 seconds after openning, residency programs can still get you H1B as long as they want to.
as for J1, you can either do a 1 year fellowship, and go back to Canada, or just do a J1 waiver job, there are states that literally NEVER fill their quota, it's 3 years working in underserved area under H1b, and they give you greencard after the 3 years.

PS: I am a Canadian OMS3, I know the struggle, but from what I've seen there are ways out of it, visit "Osteopathic Medicine (DO) for Canadians" group on FB, every single one of us in that group is Canadian, studying DO in US, everybody before us made it one way or another. However heychloe is right about the possibility of H1B going away, so be prepared to go on a J1 and work the waiver if you want to stay in the States.

What do you mean by "work the waiver"?
Also, the H1B isn't going away, not from what I gather. Incredibly unlikely.
What's the link to the facebook page? Can I join as a non-Canadian international AMG?

 

[hallowmann]

Um. Hello there SDN.

So I am in a bit of a unique situation. I just finished OMS-1, went pretty. Lowest scores being mid 80, highest being low 90s. Also I can kirksville ya real good.

On a whim from my parents when I first started, who said "lets try and see what happens", I also re applied to Canadian schools. Now, since DO schools operate outside LCME, they don't care/ask about them.

I got an acceptance.

I am very lost on what route to take in terms of my long term goal - to practice Psychiatry in the US.

On one hand, the DO option, assuming I get psych, gets me there quicker. 9 years. 4 DO + 4 US residency + 1 Fellowship (which is allowed by Health Canada under J1). As well, if I wraggle for an H1B, I can use OPT extension to start residency and write Comlex Level 3 while the program gets the paperwork in order. However... Visa. All that is visa, and that's not fun. Also, expensive. Also, I heard Psych NRMP was brutal.

On the other hand, Canada. Takes longer. 11 years. 1 DO + 4 MD + 5 Psych in Canada + 1 fellowship (I could do that here). Its cheaper. Like USD 80,000 cheaper. Its longer. I don't deal with visas when it comes to residency because I would do it there, and getting residency is way more for sure there. I would still need to take Step 1 - 3 if I want to come down here and work, however (Step 3 needed for H1b).

I don't know. Like I said, I want to work and live here in the US. I spent a large part of my childhood - early/mid adolescence where with my family, and collectively we've always wanted to come back to the US.

Any advice?

If you aren't going to become a citizen in the US while in med school and you'd be applying to US GME as a Canadian, then I'd say your best bet is to go to the Canadian school. Canadian schools are LCME accredited, and you would be viewed better as a Canadian coming from a Canadian school if you were to apply to US GME, than you would as a Canadian coming from a DO school. Plus you'd have the option of having much less hurdles than you'd face as a DO (and in some provinces be viewed as an IMG) trying to get Canadian GME if you wanted to after med school.

1-2 yr is a pretty small sacrifice in my opinion, and you'd be coming from a strong medical school, you'd have less debt, and you'd have more options for residency. It seems like a no-brainer to me. The only real downside is that you'll have to repeat 1st year and you'd be in Canada for med school, which doesn't seem all that bad to me.

 

[Jinxapotato]

What do you mean by "work the waiver"?
Also, the H1B isn't going away, not from what I gather. Incredibly unlikely.
What's the link to the facebook page? Can I join as a non-Canadian international AMG?

I meant work the J1 waiver job, which according to our State's health department, means working 3 years on H1B in an undeserved area, after which you will be granted a green card. Yeah I highly doubt the H1B thing going away completely any time soon, but as you can see with the general trend regarding immigration, it's getting harder and harder, so I'm just saying one should be prepared that they may not get a H1B and have a back up plan.

If you aren't going to become a citizen in the US while in med school and you'd be applying to US GME as a Canadian, then I'd say your best bet is to go to the Canadian school. Canadian schools are LCME accredited, and you would be viewed better as a Canadian coming from a Canadian school if you were to apply to US GME, than you would as a Canadian coming from a DO school. Plus you'd have the option of having much less hurdles than you'd face as a DO (and in some provinces be viewed as an IMG) trying to get Canadian GME if you wanted to after med school.

1-2 yr is a pretty small sacrifice in my opinion, and you'd be coming from a strong medical school, you'd have less debt, and you'd have more options for residency. It seems like a no-brainer to me. The only real downside is that you'll have to repeat 1st year and you'd be in Canada for med school, which doesn't seem all that bad to me.

So I am kinda in the same situation, but to my surprise, many US schools consider me as a "US Student" when applying for rotations/auditions (they won't charge the international student fee to me, despite me being an actual international student). But I agree, I think given the options the Canadian route is a better idea.

 

[LChristmas]

Go back to Canada.

 

[AMEHigh]

If you want to live and work in the U.S, then you should stay at the D.O. school. I'm not sure why everyone is telling you to go to Canada because it will be much harder to get a job in the U.S. if you do all your training in Canada. In addition, clearly the healthcare systems of the 2 countries are very different, therefore I would want to train in the country that I will ultimately practice in. Going through the visa process during residency and then finding a job of course adds a little bump in the road, but if your goal is to live and work in the U.S. then those are the steps you're gong to have take and going back to Canada makes no sense. Good luck!

 

[InternistDO]

If you want to live and work in the U.S, then you should stay at the D.O. school. I'm not sure why everyone is telling you to go to Canada because it will be much harder to get a job in the U.S. if you do all your training in Canada.

The only drawback to Canadian school ----> US job is having to take the USMLEs. Since Lendmeyourdeers isn't a permanent resident or US citizen, he has to deal with the hassle of immigration regardless of which school he goes to. Since Canada is the only country where you don't need to repeat a residency to practice in the US, the only downside is the extra time spent in residency/schooling. If you're in DO school, you probably need to sit for Step 1 and 2 anyway, so you're taking extra exams regardless (though not as many).

Personally I'd be happy to spend an extra year in school if it meant never being forced to deal with OMM again.

 

[AMEHigh]

The only drawback to Canadian school ----> US job is having to take the USMLEs. Since Lendmeyourdeers isn't a permanent resident or US citizen, he has to deal with the hassle of immigration regardless of which school he goes to. Since Canada is the only country where you don't need to repeat a residency to practice in the US, the only downside is the extra time spent in residency/schooling. If you're in DO school, you probably need to sit for Step 1 and 2 anyway, so you're taking extra exams regardless (though not as many).

Personally I'd be happy to spend an extra year in school if it meant never being forced to deal with OMM again.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I think there are more benefits to going to school in the country that you want to live and work.

1) Going to school here will lead to more connections that using common sense would likely make it easier to secure a residency spot.
2) It will be easier/less expensive to do elective rotations at programs one is interested in applying to for residency
3) Going to school here makes it easier to understand how the U.S. healthcare system works
4) OP has already completed one year of school here

 

[LendMeYourDeers]

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts!

I have heard arguements for both sides from a lot of people - those outside these forums - and its half n half with the same positions put here.

One on hand, Canada is much cheaper, and you can come back to the US later. I would likely do residency in the US, since by going to a Canadian school I have no option of doing residency on H1 (as well CaRMs occurs earlier than the US match - therefore unless I forgo CaRMS I wouldn't be doing residency here).

On the other hand, by staying at the DO school I do spend more money, but my foot into the door for eventual work here has been done earlier - and I was told the earlier you can get into the American system the better, if you want to work here. In regards to J1 visas as an international, this is true if I need to go that route I am at the whim of Health Canada - but if the last couple of years show, Psych is something where the available SoN always > the number given out, and the SoN limit is increasing next year.

I know that by going to Canada may open some doors, and those doors may only be in Canada; and by going DO I may close some. But when I say I want to work in the US I do mean it, due to personal reasons/history here.

It's a tough decision - and I feel that each way is not a -bad- decision, just a decision with trade offs.