Interview Attire -- Three Piece Suit?

[StudyLater]

Don't need it pal. I have plenty of compassion for my patients. I have none for people who think they are special flowers that deserve certain privileges for no good reason

We are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.

I love when crap lines up like that. (ref?)

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[DokterMom]

Dead horses always move. Eventually. Just not under their own power.

That's a very optimistic view on life.

Maybe -- Or perhaps the reverse. Have you ever seen a large animal carcass decay naturally? NOT a pretty sight, but there is movement involved. (ducking)

 

[gyngyn]

I'm lost. Is there a lvl 95 necromancer magically moving said dead horse?

Have you ever been around a dead horse for any period of time?

 

[StudyLater]

Jesus you guys are in metaphor never never land. Please tell me what is going on.

 

[StudyLater]

Have you ever been around a dead horse for any period of time?

Uh no. I don't beat horses to death so I wouldn't know anything about that.

What do they do with them? Can you eat them? I assume some who are really attached would like cremate them or something. Maybe burial (ah geez that'd be a pain).

 

[DokterMom]

Don't need it pal. I have plenty of compassion for my patients. I have none for people who think they are special flowers that deserve certain privileges for no good reason

I have a friend who was convinced that allowing gays to marry was somehow giving them some sort of special privilege...

Dressing professionally in a way that reflects our gender identity is the norm for cis-gendered people. Dressing professionally in a way that reflects the OP's gender identity, whatever that is, is not asking for any special treatment. The simple fact is that non-binary gender identities don't have a 'uniform code' of professional attire. The OP will have to do something that doesn't quite conform simply because the OP doesn't quite conform. But dressing in a way that shows an understanding of that code, a bit of respect for 'the rules', and an ability to flexibly adapt in a way that's both personally and situationally-appropriate -- that just makes sense.

 

[StudyLater]

I have a friend who was convinced that allowing gays to marry was somehow giving them some sort of special privilege...

Dressing professionally in a way that reflects our gender identity is the norm for cis-gendered people. Dressing professionally in a way that reflects the OP's gender identity, whatever that is, is not asking for any special treatment. The simple fact is that non-binary gender identities don't have a 'uniform code' of professional attire. The OP will have to do something that doesn't quite conform simply because the OP doesn't quite conform. But dressing in a way that shows an understanding of that code, a bit of respect for 'the rules', and an ability to flexibly adapt in a way that's both personally and situationally-appropriate -- that just makes sense.

And the way people decide on whether or not they like you and want to have you around -- that just doesn't always make sense.

If they don't choose you it'd be near impossible to specifically prove sexual/gender discrimination was involved, unless the adcom specifically made a comment about it. I've been saying, why give them a reason? They don't have to care about you or what you stand for, and can easily brush you aside. It's not the time nor the place if you value the hard work you've done to put yourself in the position to get admitted.

And again, the point is missed here. We're not dressing for gender identity purposes. We're dressing according to the rule, in all likelihood to show that we can adhere to their rules. Why they have us dress that way should be irrelevant to us, if our goal is admission.

 

[Psai]

I have a friend who was convinced that allowing gays to marry was somehow giving them some sort of special privilege...

Dressing professionally in a way that reflects our gender identity is the norm for cis-gendered people. Dressing professionally in a way that reflects the OP's gender identity, whatever that is, is not asking for any special treatment. The simple fact is that non-binary gender identities don't have a 'uniform code' of professional attire. The OP will have to do something that doesn't quite conform simply because the OP doesn't quite conform. But dressing in a way that shows an understanding of that code, a bit of respect for 'the rules', and an ability to flexibly adapt in a way that's both personally and situationally-appropriate -- that just makes sense.

That's the whole point. Their gender identity is irrelevant. They are not interviewing as themselves, they are interviewing as a prospective medical applicant. There is an expected norm for professional attire in the interview and op wants to subvert that with the excuse of being transgendered. If I was running an interview and someone showed up in a cardigan, I would not accept them. If they came in a pink shirt, I would not accept them. It has literally nothing to do with their gender identity which is really no business of mine. I don't like dressing up either. I don't enjoy wearing suits. Guess who showed up with a suit, a white shirt and a tie?

 

[DokterMom]

That's the whole point. Their gender identity is irrelevant. They are not interviewing as themselves, they are interviewing as a prospective medical applicant. There is an expected norm for professional attire in the interview and op wants to subvert that with the excuse of being transgendered. If I was running an interview and someone showed up in a cardigan, I would not accept them. If they came in a pink shirt, I would not accept them. It has literally nothing to do with their gender identity which is really no business of mine. I don't like dressing up either. I don't enjoy wearing suits. Guess who showed up with a suit, a white shirt and a tie?

Pink shirts are fine. Cardigans are not. A jacket of some sort will be expected.

If the OP is using gender identity as an excuse to dress casually, it's not likely to go well. But if they can find a way to adapt that is appropriate and professional, -- THAT will demonstrate (and require) some creativity.

 

[p0gono]

Guess who showed up with a suit, a white shirt and a tie?

You may not have preferred that dress code, but it was in line with your gender identity. The feelings you have against a suit and tie are not rooted in your gender, I presume.

Gender identity is not a preference. It is very very different than the way that you might think of style or sexual orientation as preferences.

If the expectation were that you had to wear a dress and make-up to your interview but everyone else could wear professional clothing in accordance with their gender, you wouldn't simply be uncomfortable because the dress felt funny on your body. It would be dressing in a way that was contrary to your gender identity.

 

[Psai]

You may not have preferred that dress code, but it was in line with your gender identity. The feelings you have against a suit and tie are not rooted in your gender, I presume.

Gender identity is not a preference. It is very very different than the way that you might think of style or sexual orientation as preferences.

If the expectation were that you had to wear a dress and make-up to your interview but everyone else could wear professional clothing in accordance with their gender, you wouldn't simply be uncomfortable because the dress felt funny on your body. It would be dressing in a way that was contrary to your gender identity.

I don't know what you're trying to argue here

 

[Goro]

Except at LUCOM and Loma Linda!

Yeah, and I've been actually thinking. Right now, I'm just one person right, and it's probably unlikely that they're going to make special changes just for me. I might even come off as obnoxious if I just show up in a dress just to say, aha, you're wrong.

But I think there is a worthwhile question to be asked here. And I think it deserves to be discussed among adcom procedures.

Because I think the "Rules are rules, and stay with the status quo" argument has always been there. For example, for the longest time, transgender men were forced to use male washrooms, and transgender women female washrooms. Maybe now we recognize that was a cruel thing to do, but it was because the buildings and institutions were all built with this strictly male/female mindset, and people didn't know where to put transgender people. So of course, they tried to force transgender people into the binary system like every one else.

But nowadays I am seeing the new buildings have more and more unisex washrooms. And I am really happy. And I think at this point, all I can hope, or we can hope, is that maybe in a couple years, this discussion would have gained enough traction that adcoms can find a suitable dress code that's more accommodating while keeping the tradition that of course, this is a prestigious and serious business.

 

[StudyLater]

Except at LUCOM and Loma Linda!

Oh yeah forgot to mention this. But it does support what I've been saying all along.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

I would not wear a vest. Its not quite standard fashion these days and you'll come off looking like a bit of a dandy.

/thread

 

[Psai]

At risk of skewing to the political offensive side...

The youths of the world have long been railing against the oppression of the patriarchy.

Except this generation of youths has managed to create a language for doing so in which defending the tradition is offensive to their very identity in a way which cannot be argued against without risking being labelled a bigot.

It's absurd because you can say things that aren't even meant to be offensive and someone will go out of their way and act as though it was an assault on their person. I've found that this is especially common among privileged white youths, especially when it is about something that is completely unrelated to them

 

[p0gono]

At risk of skewing to the political offensive side...

The youths of the world have long been railing against the oppression of the patriarchy.

Except this generation of youths has managed to create a language for doing so in which defending the tradition is offensive to their very identity in a way which cannot be argued against without risking being labelled a bigot.

Except gender identity is not a quality of only youths.

 

[Winged Scapula]

My favorite is to be offended and claim ""microaggression"when the marginalized medical student is asked to do something helpful to the team by the resident or attending.

 

[gyngyn]

My favorite is to be offended and claim ""microaggression"when the marginalized medical student is asked to do something helpful to the team by the resident or attending.

This year a former colleague of mine (at another well-known CA medical school) was reported for abuse for asking a student a question in rounds that the student could not answer.

 

[p0gono]

This year a former colleague of mine (at another well-known CA medical school) was reported for abuse for asking a student a question in rounds that the student could not answer.

Wowwwww. I hope there is more to that story, for the sake of humanity's future.

 

[gyngyn]

Wowwwww. I hope there is more to that story, for the sake of humanity's future.

She is known as a well respected physician and a kind, generous teacher in her long career here before moving to another school a few years back. Apparently the student reported her under the humiliation section of the student handbook.

 

[gyngyn]

We've been instructed not to ask any questions of students in the operating room

Holy cow!
My friend's "offense" was in post op rounds...

 

[Winged Scapula]

We've been instructed not to ask any questions of students in the operating room

Are you effing kidding me?!!

This from one of the top medical schools and surgery programs in the country. What is this world coming to?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I don't know. We have to wait till they are interns to actually beat on them

Whew... OK as long as that's the case, my world makes sense.

 

[StudyLater]

This year a former colleague of mine (at another well-known CA medical school) was reported for abuse for asking a student a question in rounds that the student could not answer.

Who knows what happened. Things can be said/done a certain way that can be interpreted as particularly offensive. I have a PI who is also very highly respected and skilled but is also a real gunner type. He does the exact same kind of **** ("Hey you, yeah you: So can you tell me the steps of X and why we do it??? I'm waiting!!) and as a result can come off to younger folks as an a*shole. Even if that is not how he even means it. Older generations seem to operate on a different wavelength. It's almost appalling to me how nice to each other we "youths" are (outside of specialty scenarios like parties where everyone is intoxicated and therefore must be an a*shole).

I guess our generation is just sensitive to different things? Either that or we've got like this super inflated sense of importance which is totally unjustified when you actually consider our place in society, i.e. lowly students, not even that intelligent yet, qualified to be fry cooks/baristas and not much else. I think that disconnect between our opinions of ourselves and the realization of how unimportant/incompetent we really are can be shocking to us when we first start to experience it. If one hasn't been in a significantly demanding profession then I could easily see how it could take up to 3rd year of med school to come to that harsh realization.

 

[Easonred57]

I know of one dean of admissions who has suggested offering instant admission to anyone with the balls to show up at an interview in a plaid jacket but I think that the plaid suit would be taking it too far.

Good God, don't give people ideas.

 

[Easonred57]

I promise it was a good look. lol

I wear charcoal pants and a burgundy shirt/silver tie to clinic sometimes, so don't feel bad. Of course I'd never wear it to an interview, but that's just the song and dance of med school admissions.

 

[gyngyn]

Whew... OK as long as that's the case, my world makes sense.

I still can't believe that we live in world where the students are too delicate to be asked questions in the OR (or anywhere else).

 

[Winged Scapula]

I still can't believe that we live in world where the students are too delicate to be asked questions in the OR (or anywhere else).

Well I knew the jig was up when we were no longer allowed to make them stay all night for call.

 

[gyngyn]

Well I knew the jig was up when we were no longer allowed to make them stay all night for call.

Too delicate, I guess...
And yet they wonder why they aren't made to feel part of the team!

 

[Winged Scapula]

Too delicate, I guess...
And yet they complain that they aren't made to feel part of the team!

Delicate little flowers.

And no I won't page you (at home) when something interesting comes in.

There is some benefit to my practice now: I don't have to deal with that BS (although I was told that students have weekends off on electives, even if we have patients in house),

 

[Psai]

Too delicate, I guess...
And yet they wonder why they aren't made to feel part of the team!

Wtf are you seriously blaming students for the decisions that administrators make?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I've complained here several times that I think the M3 experience here is not ideal. Students are too coddled, and the rotations are structured in such a way that the students are pulled off of the wards way too much for simulation and lecture experience.

Bottom line is that it doesn't present an accurate picture of a surgical practice. You don't have to be abusive but when you coddle them to such a degree, they don't feel a part of the team, don't learn as much and aren't presented the true picture of what surgery is like. It's a shame.

 

[Goro]

Tell me about it! There's a 14+ page thread in the pre-Allo section recently about someone getting bent out of shape at an interview question, and then they got further bent by a hypothetical "what would you do if X happened?" question!

At risk of skewing to the political offensive side...
The youths of the world have long been railing against the oppression of the patriarchy.

Except this generation of youths has managed to create a language for doing so in which defending the tradition is offensive to their very identity in a way which cannot be argued against without risking being labelled a bigot.

God help our country if medical education is coming to this. I already have some students so thin-skinned that light passes right through them. Seems to be a S.F. Bay Area thing.

This year a former colleague of mine (at another well-known CA medical school) was reported for abuse for asking a student a question in rounds that the student could not answer.

Pimping has now been corrupted by the Millennials to mean "asking me a question I don't know the answer to"

.
So, can we put our heads together and come up with some interview questions to weed out the pathologically thin-skinned???

We've been instructed not to ask any questions of students in the operating room

 

[Wordead]

I've complained here several times that I think the M3 experience here is not ideal. Students are too coddled, and the rotations are structured in such a way that the students are pulled off of the wards way too much for simulation and lecture experience.

Yeah the med students here have lecture literally every day so they never leave after like 4 pm. It's crazy.

 

[ZedsDed]

Tell me about it! There's a 14+ page thread in the pre-Allo section recently about someone getting bent out of shape at an interview question, and then they got further bent by a hypothetical "what would you do if X happened?" question!





God help our country if medical education is coming to this. I already have some students so thin-skinned that light passes right through them. Seems to be a S.F. Bay Area thing.



Pimping has now been corrupted by the Millennials to mean "asking me a question I don't know the answer to"

.
So, can we put our heads together and come up with some interview questions to weed out the pathologically thin-skinned???

Just want to point out that you can't really completely blame the students. I mean, what do you expect when they are pretty much taught from freshman year that hurt feelings are morally outrageous? Those deeply ingrained habits are not going to suddenly disappear later on in life. Not an excuse by any means, I can't stand this generation. Just saying that perhaps the generation of their mentors should share some of the blame here.

 

[Goro]

We Baby Boomers are their parents, so yes, we deserve a good deal of blame.

Just want to point out that you can't really completely blame the students. I mean, what do you expect when they are pretty much taught from freshman year that hurt feelings are morally outrageous? Those deeply ingrained habits are not going to suddenly disappear later on in life. Not an excuse by any means, I can't stand this generation. Just saying that perhaps the generation of their mentors should share some of the blame here.

 

[ghostboy1234]

I know this is super old but what about a normal 3 piece for a MD/MBA interview? My go to suit is a 3 piece but I'm not trying to make a statement so I guess I could ditch the vest?

@gyngyn @Goro

 

[gyngyn]

I know this is super old but what about a normal 3 piece for a MD/MBA interview? My go to suit is a 3 piece but I'm not trying to make a statement so I guess I could ditch the vest?

@gyngyn @Goro

No vest!!!

 

[Goro]

I know this is super old but what about a normal 3 piece for a MD/MBA interview? My go to suit is a 3 piece but I'm not trying to make a statement so I guess I could ditch the vest?

@gyngyn @Goro

I'm okay with it

 

[878956]

I wouldn’t do it. I had some friends who did it and they got into medical school just fine so ymmv.

 

[ghostboy1234]

Ya I think I'll play it safe! Thank you!

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

From a fashion standpoint, there is never an excuse for a vest. However as somebody who has done interviews in the past, I will say that if the person is good enough, I don’t mind what they wear.

 

[DokterMom]

From a fashion standpoint, there is never an excuse for a vest. However as somebody who has done interviews in the past, I will say that if the person is good enough, I don’t mind what they wear.

Whereas a truly superlative candidate can push the envelope and rock it all the way to a scholarship, a borderline candidate can't get away with it. Life's not fair.