is there a best to way to pay off dental loans fast?

[SunflowerRae]

I'm married and my spouse is a teacher and we live very simply - I will work for a year or two and put ALL of the money into the dental school debt and then be done with it and go on with my life. We will continue to live on my spouses teacher salary during this time.

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[DrJeff]

I'm married and my spouse is a teacher and we live very simply - I will work for a year or two and put ALL of the money into the dental school debt and then be done with it and go on with my life. We will continue to live on my spouses teacher salary during this time.

Don't forget that "old Uncle Sam" will want his share of your newly found dental earnings and in all likelyhood, you'll be "fortunate" enough to be graduating to a higher tax bracket too Might end up being more than a year or two depending on what your denatl scholl indebtedness will be

 

[S Files]

I'm kind of curious as to why you would think that would ever be possible. It seems to show a lack of an appreciation for reality. This entire thread seems to show a lack of an appreciation for reality.

exactly what I was thinking....returning dental degree for tuition paid??!!!!!

 

[OceanDMD]

Don't forget that "old Uncle Sam" will want his share of your newly found dental earnings and in all likelyhood, you'll be "fortunate" enough to be graduating to a higher tax bracket too Might end up being more than a year or two depending on what your denatl scholl indebtedness will be

Yes, lets see, if I was fortunate to pay off my 160k in dental loans in my first year I would have to gross about $230,000 that first year, and throw every dime into the debt. My spouse and her teacher salary would need to pay for my liability and disability insurances, my CE that my employer wont pay for, my car payment, etc etc etc.......If my employer is paying me 35% of my production, all I need to produce is $ 657,000 to pull that 230k. No problem.

Sometimes there is just no concept of money/debt/income/production around here. Debt is a fact of life, unless you are one of the very very very few you will be managing it forever. There is nothing wrong with managing a dental loan payment for 15-20 years rather than paying it off as quick as possible.

 

[DrJeff]

A bit more realistic view of things

1) You graduate d-school - you'll generally have atleast moderate feelings of anamosity towards your d-school and feel atleast somewhat nervous about "am I ready", "am I good enough", "how will I be able to afford everything", etc, etc, etc

2) You'll find a job, 1st time out it may very well not be the "perfect job", even if you think it is when you start it. You'll see fairly soon that you'll be able to pay the bills

3) Within a couple of years (at most) you'll decide if your job is right for you and either pursue partnership/ full ownership or look for another job. Your income will steadily be increasing and you'll be paying the bills

4) If you pursue another job, you'll go back to #3 after a few years and re-assess things. If you buy in/own, you'll see after a little while that income increases again, and you'll still be paying the bills(often by this point, you've heard your accountants saying that "debt isn't necessarily a bad thing" enough times that you'll begin to feel comfortable with some level of debt as your paying it down).

5) After say 7 to 10 years of practice, you'll generally be a a very, very stable financial situation earning a nice living working on ammassing retirement savings and/or kids college fund savings

That's a bit more realistic view of things, and I'm quite sure that some of us practicing Docs that have added to this thread will agree with alot of this post

 

[OceanDMD]

A bit more realistic view of things

1) You graduate d-school - you'll generally have atleast moderate feelings of anamosity towards your d-school and feel atleast somewhat nervous about "am I ready", "am I good enough", "how will I be able to afford everything", etc, etc, etc

2) You'll find a job, 1st time out it may very well not be the "perfect job", even if you think it is when you start it. You'll see fairly soon that you'll be able to pay the bills

3) Within a couple of years (at most) you'll decide if your job is right for you and either pursue partnership/ full ownership or look for another job. Your income will steadily be increasing and you'll be paying the bills

4) If you pursue another job, you'll go back to #3 after a few years and re-assess things. If you buy in/own, you'll see after a little while that income increases again, and you'll still be paying the bills(often by this point, you've heard your accountants saying that "debt isn't necessarily a bad thing" enough times that you'll begin to feel comfortable with some level of debt as your paying it down).

5) After say 7 to 10 years of practice, you'll generally be a a very, very stable financial situation earning a nice living working on ammassing retirement savings and/or kids college fund savings

That's a bit more realistic view of things, and I'm quite sure that some of us practicing Docs that have added to this thread will agree with alot of this post

Jeff, do you mean that I am not going to become a millionaire in my first 5 years?

 

[johntara04]

Jeff, do you mean that I am not going to become a millionaire in my first 5 years?

I think so. I also think he is saying that you will have more money than 95% of the people out there as well. You won't be in the top 1% of income, but you will be doing much, much better than 95% of the people out there.

 

[OceanDMD]

I think so. I also think he is saying that you will have more money than 95% of the people out there as well. You won't be in the top 1% of income, but you will be doing much, much better than 95% of the people out there.

I forgot to add the sarcasm. Johntara, If you average a gross of 200k your first 5 years (which is very good as a general dentist), after taxes you are going to net over those 5 years approximately 650 k. Some of this will be pay debt, living expenses, fun, etc etc etc. PLease tell me how in the hell you think after 5 years out you will be worth 1 million dollars? It would serve you well to listen to a guy like Jeff who has actual experience. Its a very nice living, you can make plenty of money, but be realistic and quit misleading new students/new graduates for that matter.

 

[johntara04]

I forgot to add the sarcasm. Johntara, If you average a gross of 200k your first 5 years (which is very good as a general dentist), after taxes you are going to net over those 5 years approximately 650 k. Some of this will be pay debt, living expenses, fun, etc etc etc. PLease tell me how in the hell you think after 5 years out you will be worth 1 million dollars? It would serve you well to listen to a guy like Jeff who has actual experience. Its a very nice living, you can make plenty of money, but be realistic and quit misleading new students/new graduates for that matter.

It would do you well to read the posts. If you can show me where I said you would be worth a million dollars after 5 years, I will answer your question.

Also, 178k is the average for a general dentist so 200k a year is only slightly above average for a general dentist, which is NOT very good as you describe. It is average.

 

[OceanDMD]

It would do you well to read the posts. If you can show me where I said you would be worth a million dollars after 5 years, I will answer your question. Take the emotion out of it, look at the post, and give an intellectual response that has to do with what I said.

Also, 178k is the average for a general dentist so 200k a year is only slightly above average for a general dentist, which is NOT very good as you describe. It is average.

So you are saying averaging 200k/year your first five years is not that good? I wonder what Jeff thinks about that. You really have set your standards high. Oh, and there is no question that I seek an answer for.

 

[johntara04]

PLease tell me how in the hell you think after 5 years out you will be worth 1 million dollars?

There is the question you asked. Again, reread my and your posts.

So you are saying averaging 200k/year your first five years is not that good?

Again, read the posts. Where did I say 200k was not that good? I said it was average, my point being that what you state as very successful, is in fact average for a general dentist. I didn't say it was good or bad. I said it was average for a dentist, which, like I said before (again, read the posts) is better than 95% of the people out there. 178k grand a year is great money, and puts you in the top 5% of wage earners in America. Like I said, you will be better off then 95% of the people out there.

 

[OceanDMD]

There is the question you asked. Again, reread my and your posts.



Again, read the posts. Where did I say 200k was not that good? I said it was average, my point being that what you state as very successful, is in fact average for a general dentist. I didn't say it was good or bad. I said it was average for a dentist, which, like I said before (again, read the posts) is better than 95% of the people out there. 178k grand a year is great money, and puts you in the top 5% of wage earners in America. Like I said, you will be better off then 95% of the people out there.

My point is for a new dentist in his first 5 years of practice, 200k/year is likely WELL ABOVE AVERAGE. Excuse the emotion and terse responses, but time and time again I read your posts about HOW EASY IT IS. I dont think this is the view new graduating dentists need to have when they enter the world of dentistry. I have been out two years. I've gone through a failed associateship with family, and now Im transitioning into a partnership. If you want to know what the expenses and income is really like (from experience) let me know. I busted a__ to produce 600k my first year out. Its not easy, especially during the early years.

 

[airwolfrocks999]

It would do you well to read the posts. If you can show me where I said you would be worth a million dollars after 5 years, I will answer your question.

Also, 178k is the average for a general dentist so 200k a year is only slightly above average for a general dentist, which is NOT very good as you describe. It is average.

If I may ask, what exactly is your position? How many years of exp do you have?

I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe you're in the top decile of all dentists.

But that ADA estimate of 178K/yr is biased. ( and notice that ALL other salary surveys quote dental salaries from 120k/yr to below ) ADA gathers income info from < 25% of all ADA member dentists ( and there are even dentists who don't join the ADA ). The incomes used in the ADA survey are not audited and verified in any way.

 

[airwolfrocks999]

I think so. I also think he is saying that you will have more money than 95% of the people out there as well. You won't be in the top 1% of income, but you will be doing much, much better than 95% of the people out there.

The US median HOUSEHOLD income is just short of $47000 / yr. ( this was 2005, and it's safe to assume much hasn't changed )

Almost any SINGLE person with a professional degree doesn't need that much to be within the top 1% of income earners.

So quoting percentages isn't going to help in deciphering whether dentists make enough to comfortable amidst their education/practice debts, backaches, and hassles of maintaining licensures/CE.

 

[airwolfrocks999]

exactly what I was thinking....returning dental degree for tuition paid??!!!!!

I can't turn back time, can I?

Instead of fretting over the time I lost, I can only focus on what's best for me at the present.

 

[diagnodent]

Why do so many discussions on this board get diverted to salary...ie.. How much you are going to make? How easy it is to make a lot?

None of you will be poor. You will make a good living after a while. You are probably never going to be rich. Your income is dependent on your business sense, intelligence, hard work, risk taking, etc.

 

[Robert Paulsen]

But I'm not doing this just for the sake of quitting dentistry. I have some personal circumstances ( hard to explain ) that favors a job change.

This whole thread has me baffled. What could possibly make you turn your back on the years of scarifice, suffering, and study to get into and through dental school only to make you want to quit dentistry before you start your first job as a dentist? I'm guessing it is either love or some "supernatual" event. In either case, I'm afraid you are on the verge of making a huge mistake.

Your new sweetie or supernatural significant other will be better served if you get your head straight and go to work in the field you have struggled to enter for so long. If the girl doesn't want to be with a dentist, you've got the wrong girl. The other one won't care what you do as long as the money is good, and if you get to work, it will be.

You don't need advice about how to deal with your debt and impending career. You need advice about what is driving you to throw away years of hard work. So let's hear it. What is really going on with you?

RP

 

[pmantz]

This whole thread has me baffled. What could possibly make you turn your back on the years of scarifice, suffering, and study to get into and through dental school only to make you want to quit dentistry before you start your first job as a dentist? I'm guessing it is either love or some "supernatual" event. In either case, I'm afraid you are on the verge of making a huge mistake.

Your new sweetie or supernatural significant other will be better served if you get your head straight and go to work in the field you have struggled to enter for so long. If the girl doesn't want to be with a dentist, you've got the wrong girl. The other one won't care what you do as long as the money is good, and if you get to work, it will be.

You don't need advice about how to deal with your debt and impending career. You need advice about what is driving you to throw away years of hard work. So let's hear it. What is really going on with you?

RP

Well said, what career could be so much better than dentistry, where you would want to pay off all your debt as fast as you can. Maybe the OP is interested in one of those get rich quick schemes you see on TV. Dentistry is a great field; good hours, good money, you help people on so many different levels.




So what is this career choice, which requires no debt?

 

[jeninny44]

This whole thread has me baffled. What could possibly make you turn your back on the years of scarifice, suffering, and study to get into and through dental school only to make you want to quit dentistry before you start your first job as a dentist? I'm guessing it is either love or some "supernatual" event. In either case, I'm afraid you are on the verge of making a huge mistake.

Your new sweetie or supernatural significant other will be better served if you get your head straight and go to work in the field you have struggled to enter for so long. If the girl doesn't want to be with a dentist, you've got the wrong girl. The other one won't care what you do as long as the money is good, and if you get to work, it will be.

You don't need advice about how to deal with your debt and impending career. You need advice about what is driving you to throw away years of hard work. So let's hear it. What is really going on with you?

RP

Right on the target. I've been wanting to be a dentist for 5 years. I had the same reaction.. how could someone be so lucky and fortunate to land a job as a dentist and then throw it away? Please tell.

 

[helpfuldoc2b]

I was wondering the same thing. Even in the metro, coastal locations, daily take-home salary seems to range from $300 - $500/day. I've seen some associates ( not recent grads ) earn up to $600-ish /day but I'm not finding this common.

Will you answer everyones question WHAT IS THIS CAREER you are switching to and giving up your DDS and educational investment for. Is is guaranteed income, what made you think of it right after gradation even before practicing, what is so special about this job that you give up all your investment time and money of dental school for. WHAT IS IT, please let us all know!

 

[dentwannabe]

Airwolf... Honestly, its quite rude to ask for advice/help and then not disclose important pieces of information. Here we are giving you our sincere advice and you can't even tell us the whole situation. We're not asking for your name/sex/birthdate... we're just asking for a clearer picture of what is exactly going on with you. It'll help you discover more about yourself, it'll help us help you better, and it may benefit some of the predents and dental students on here. So, c'mon, lets have it.

 

[DDSwithAplan]

I'm in need of paying off my dental school loans as quickly as possible. I'm trying to switch to another job, but it requires training in itself. And nothing is realistic until I'm free from my 300k debt.

I graduated from dental school last month and am scheduled to be in a gpr this upcoming July.

What should I do? Should I drop my gpr position?

And is there some sort of dental job that you recommend, so that I can pay off my debts real fast? Any advice in general? ( I don't care about the type of dental work. And I have very little to do in life, so I also don't mind working 80-100 hrs/wk. I'm also willing to relocate anywhere within the continental US. I have a simplisitic lifestyle and don't intend on buying a home soon, just incase it's all relevant to this discussion )

Thanks.

I cover this in this EPO/complex business plan I have put together, but it is a little involved almost as much as your debt, but if you answer this I will do the best I can cover the details in breif

 

[airwolfrocks999]

Will you answer everyones question WHAT IS THIS CAREER you are switching to and giving up your DDS and educational investment for. Is is guaranteed income, what made you think of it right after gradation even before practicing, what is so special about this job that you give up all your investment time and money of dental school for. WHAT IS IT, please let us all know!

I want to enroll in Devry for a computer science degree, and work for the Pentagon or a major defense contractor.

But it's highly impractical until I can pay off all my loans.

 

[pmantz]

I want to enroll in Devry for a computer science degree, and work for the Pentagon or a major defense contractor.

But it's highly impractical until I can pay off all my loans.

 

[DrJeff]

Jeff, do you mean that I am not going to become a millionaire in my first 5 years?

Do you have any real wealthy older relatives about to pass on that put you in the will??? Or is your spouse from a really wealthy family Then again there is that lottery thing too

Folks, its all about the hard work

I'm sure Ocean will agree with this, what's a bit of debt for a decade or so

 

[Robert Paulsen]

Are you insane? A bachelor's degree in comp sci is worth about $50k to start. At best you'll make $80K/year after several years of experience.

Defense is a pendulum that swings wildly and you'll never match a dental income working for a defense contractor unless you become a lobbyist, but unless you're a senator ready to retire from politics, they won't hire you as a lobbyist. Then the war will end and you and thousands of other Devry grads will be out on the street looking for work.

Bush will only be in office for another year and a half so the US's military adventures are likely to come to a rapid halt. What do you think will happen to defense jobs then? The same thing that happened in the 80s- the jobs go away.

I'll tell you something else. Nonmilitary employers don't always view military contract work favorably. Military stuff is developed with nearly unlimited budgets. Commercial stuff is ALWAYS developed within very strict budgets. Put a military contract worker in a commercial environment and they don't know what to do when the budget is limited. You can't throw infinite tax dollars at the problem.

You better think again about what you're trying to do.

RP

 

[OceanDMD]

I wonder if you could get a job with a Devry degree? Im sure there are plenty of computer science majors from schools like Purdue or Virgina Tech that would be much more attractive. Why dont you just join the military? They help payoff loans. 4 years and your out. You get your defense job, and can still be a dentist.

 

[armorshell]

I want to enroll in Devry for a computer science degree, and work for the Pentagon or a major defense contractor.

But it's highly impractical until I can pay off all my loans.

Maybe you should talk to some of the people who did the reverse route. There are what can only be described as a pile of people who really thought they would love working in the computer field, and after a few years ended up going back to school to take pre-reqs for dentistry.

From what I understand it's not hard at all to burn out on computer science, especially with the ridiculous competition for jobs and the relatively high turnover and the like. Having a degree from Devry probably wouldn't help either.

 

[beezies]

Maybe you should talk to some of the people who did the reverse route. There are what can only be described as a pile of people who really thought they would love working in the computer field, and after a few years ended up going back to school to take pre-reqs for dentistry.

From what I understand it's not hard at all to burn out on computer science, especially with the ridiculous competition for jobs and the relatively high turnover and the like. Having a degree from Devry probably wouldn't help either.

is this a joke about a joke? he's kidding about devry...right?

 

[pmantz]

I would like to think that anyone intelligent enough to get into, graduate from dental school, as well as land GPR could not be serious about a crackerjack institute such as Devry.

I say he is joking, or I would certainly hope so.

I don't blame the OP, I would much rather sit in cubicle staring as a screen while helping the government waste tax dollars. Who would want to be personable and help improve peoples health and happiness.

 

[jeninny44]

is this a joke about a joke? he's kidding about devry...right?

Obviously kidding.

 

[Robert Paulsen]

We've been had by a troll.

No one who is smart enough to get into and through dental school could possibly be such a dolt that he'd throw it and $300k away to change to a school like DeVry for comp sci. Maybe MIT or some such place (even THAT would be a huge stretch), but DeVry?

OP: It would have been more amusing if you said you wanted to become a professional beenie-baby trader or wanted to corner the market on Franklin Mint collectible plates or something like that. Or you could have said that you lost both your hands in a fishing accident...

RP

 

[airwolfrocks999]

We've been had by a troll.

No one who is smart enough to get into and through dentals school could possibly be such a dolt that he'd throw it and $300k away to change to a school like DeVry for comp sci. Maybe MIT or some such place (even THAT would be a huge stretch), but DeVry?

OP: It would have been more amusing if you said you wanted to become a professional beenie-baby trader or wanted to corner the market on Franklin Mint collectible plates or something like that. Or you could have said that you lost both your hands in a fishing accident...

RP

But isn't it a cruel to imagine someone losing both hands?

Anyways, I'm not trolling. And to be honest, you're giving me too credit for thinking I'm smart because I got accepted to and graduated from dental school. My entering class of '03 had a mean gpa of 3.0. I understand that some folks here would kill for a 3.0 but, in the grand scheme of things, this is a substandard gpa.

And I want to go to DeVry because I'm too old for the traditional 4-yr degree route. DeVry also doesn't teach all that theoretical crap you're not going to use and it offers pretty good job placement assistance, as programmers for major firms. They're also hands-on based and I think I'd really enjoy it. The tuition there is as cheap as state schools.

I agree that the typical general dentist makes more income than a typical programmer, but by how much? Usually 20-40k / yr more? Not that much of a difference to me.

 

[1992Corolla]

Hitting your stride in dentistry after 5 years and bringing home 200-400K or working for the government who caps out at 120K for senior leaders who have been working for 30 years hardly seems indicitive to give up so much hard work.

The grass is always greener on the other side I guess...

To those of you doubting Johntara04 then I will just give my two cents on the matter. JT04 works for a dentist now who makes more than 200K in 6 months. The real figure is meaningless. All John is saying that it is possible. When the average graduate out of dental school makes 90-120 out of school then in 5 years after doing many crowns and class II's and they have become really good at them, production obviously increases.

Practicing in the right area, with the right know how and good personal skills = good money. No doubt about it. John treatment plans people all the time in the office he works at. His wife is a hygienist in the same office. Most hygieinists can get a good idea about how much the boss is making. WHy would he lie about something like this? I know my dad has his office staff put a list of all the patients from the previous day onhis desk and highlight at the bottom the amount of money earned for the previous day. It is no secret. So John being in dental school and working for a succesful dentist has learned many tricks. His scenarios spell it out.

He has done them in other threads. If you see, such and such amount of patients in one day for four days a week and charge them XX of dollars you will be earning a gross income of XXX,XXX.00
Take away taxes and overhead and it is good money. Get faster at these procedures, get a couple of extra chairs, move back and forth from one chair to the next...i know a dentist here at school who works full time as faculty and three nights a week sees ten patients.
Ten patinets in three hours is good money.

 

[airwolfrocks999]

Take away taxes and overhead and it is good money. Get faster at these procedures, get a couple of extra chairs, move back and forth from one chair to the next...i know a dentist here at school who works full time as faculty and three nights a week sees ten patients.
Ten patinets in three hours is good money.

If you can work up to speed, then good for you. But for me personally, I know what's best.

 

[gryffindor]

I agree that the typical general dentist makes more income than a typical programmer, but by how much? Usually 20-40k / yr more? Not that much of a difference to me.

How much does a programmer make? I think I recall a friend starting in a Wall Street firm in NYC at 90K as a programmer, so I'd imagine you'd start at less elsewhere in the country. Just for comparison, as a very very conservative estimate, say a newbie dentist in NYC starts at $400/day, 5 days/week, 50 weeks/year and earns $100K. The perks are probably better as the Wall Street programmer for that first year. However, the dentist has the potential to outearn the 100K, even in the first year. Especially as you work more years, become faster as procedures, and establish a reputation and patient following. It's probably an even quicker route to outearning the 100K if you don't work in saturated cities like NYC. I think one of my best perks when I was working even as a lowly associate dentist was control over my own schedule. I could work as much or as little as I wanted, it all depended on how much I wanted to make or exert myself.

From a financial standpoint over time, the dentist has way more potential to outearn the programmer. I would even say earning double 90K, even if you are still an associate working for someone or a dental chain.

Geez, it seems like even working for the military or public health would be a good route to take financially compared to programming. They often have loan forgiveness programs you were asking about earlier and it too can be financially worth it if you decide to make a career out of being a military dentist.

Aside from worrying about your dental debt, you might want to at least give real-world dentistry a try. There are ways to have a dental career and never have to do a crown prep again. You really should reading DentalTown for some advice on what is possible with your DDS degree, career-wise and financially.

 

[Robert Paulsen]

And I want to go to DeVry because I'm too old for the traditional 4-yr degree route.

Too old? What are you, about 70? I'm almost 50 and just starting dental school. Life is long and there's a lot of work to be done.

Maybe you'd better leave dentistry- you don't seem to have the financial sense to survive in private practice or you'd be able to crunch the numbers and know that nothing else you can do is worth the 300k debt payoff, plus the additional expense and another few years of school. You made a huge investment of time and money. Give it a while to pay off.

Otherwise, if you can scrape together a few thousand dollars, I have some super rare beenie babies I could sell you. They are worth a FORTUNE, but I don't have time to find a buyer that will pay me their full value, so I'll sell them to you for only 1/2 of what they are worth... You can turn them around on ebay really fast and make a bundle!

RP

PS - this whole thing is so silly I still think you're just trolling.

 

[KSDDS]

I worked in the tech field for 3 years after earning a bachelors (biology) and masters degree (combination programming / tech management) from a top university and was making less than 60k. Was I underpaid for my position, yes, but still would be paid no where near a dentist salary. You will struggle to make half as much as the average dentist as a computer programmer. I also have many friends in the industry who are programmers including older brothers who have programmed for 10 years and don't earn more than 100k and work a minimum of 50 hours a week (usually more) and they often have to work on the weekends. Its a good job with many opportunities and pays well, but you have little human interaction, and (in my opinion) can be very tedious and boring. In the end though, it shouldn't be about the money. I hated my job and the industry as a whole. I was very excited to get into dental school and back to the sciences. However, I didn't choose dentistry because of the money and neither should you. If you really dislike dentistry and you are really interested in programming then go for it - but be sure you completely understand what you are getting yourself into. Why not work as a dentist for now and take some evening courses in programming to see if its really what you want to do while you're paying down your debt. I know how hard it is to consider a career change so I wish you the best of luck.

 

[johntara04]

If you can work up to speed, then good for you. But for me personally, I know what's best.

If you worked in dentistry long enough to pay off your 300k in debt, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to not work up your speed. If you want, I can find my post on a low dental income and how easy it is to make money. The doctor I work for has averaged 150k in production per month (on 4 work days a week) on his own this year. He just brought on an associate to help him out. If he takes home the average overhead, he brings home $52,500 a MONTH! That is probably close to what you will make a year in your other job.

Now, you don't have to love dentistry to be a dentist. I bet 90% of dentists wouldn't go through dental school, own a business, etc for 50k a year. Heck, work as an associate 3 days a week, take home $100,000 a year and do what you love the other 4 days of the week. Don't walk away from this job. Also, you will be glad you are a dentist when you get married and have kids and they want you to spend money on everything on tv, in magazines, and what they heard Paris Hilton is buying on the radio.

You mentioned earlier that salaried dentists make around 120k according to other websites. That is still great money. You need to remember that most dentists that are salaried do not work full time. They are just there a couple of days a week due to the fact that they are trying to get their own practice going, not enough work for them, etc.

Dentistry is one of the easiest ways to make money, you don't need to love your job to be successful (most people don't, if you can enjoy it half of the days you work it then you have won), and you do need to think about your future (wife, kids, mortgage, wanting to drive a nice car, etc) and dentistry gives you a very, very bright future with limitless possibilities.

 

[dentwannabe]

I'm going to shoot some guesses here:

I'm guessing the reason for quitting is religious reasons or a family/girl reason (hates the profession).

I'm guessing the Devry course will be in Networking or something. A lot of people are doing that route (i think its the Cisco course) and I believe you get a salary of 70k on graduation -- sometimes making up to 100k but its rare.

 

[Rube]

Again, read the posts. Where did I say 200k was not that good? I said it was average, my point being that what you state as very successful, is in fact average for a general dentist. I didn't say it was good or bad. I said it was average for a dentist, which, like I said before (again, read the posts) is better than 95% of the people out there. 178k grand a year is great money, and puts you in the top 5% of wage earners in America. Like I said, you will be better off then 95% of the people out there.

Bro, that 178 a year is an average of ALL dentists, associates make much less.

So far you've suggested that our percentile earnings compared to others will give us a nice lifestyle but you haven't considered our debt as dentists. Then you suggested that the willingness of lenders to lend us money means we will be successful. Wrong. All that means is that lenders think we can pay it back, not that we will be living a good lifestyle while doing it. Lenders are perfectly happy to lend you money and have you over a barrel for the next 20 years.

Lastly, so long as you are tossing around numbers why not post your predicted mortgage payment, your student loan payment, your bills, car payments, children's tuitions, college funds, IRAs, charitable giving, health care premiums, life insurance and your chunk of play money. All these expenses AND the income numbers tell the real story of how you will be living!

All people like Dr. Jeff, OceanDMD and me are talking about is being a competent professional and that it takes 3-8 years to transition from the paying the bills stage to the good lifestyle stage. You cannot expect 200k within the first few years and maybe not for a while, but you may make more eventually. The reality is that Dr. Jeff and OceanDMD should know, and I know. If you don't believe us go check out DentalTown where dentists talk shop and post classifieds for associates and partners. See what people are actually being offered as associates. The market doesn't lie.

 

[johntara04]

Bro, that 178 a year is an average of ALL dentists, associates make much less.

I take that into account in my post. READ EVERYTHING I WRITE BEFORE POSTING! Also, a very small percentage of dentists are associates, most of us will be in that 178k stat.

So far you've suggested that our percentile earnings compared to others will give us a nice lifestyle but you haven't considered our debt as dentists. Then you suggested that the willingness of lenders to lend us money means we will be successful. Wrong. All that means is that lenders think we can pay it back, not that we will be living a good lifestyle while doing it. Lenders are perfectly happy to lend you money and have you over a barrel for the next 20 years.

Lastly, so long as you are tossing around numbers why not post your predicted mortgage payment, your student loan payment, your bills, car payments, children's tuitions, college funds, IRAs, charitable giving, health care premiums, life insurance and your chunk of play money. All these expenses AND the income numbers tell the real story of how you will be living!

If you have read any of my other posts in other threads where I break down what you would need to produce daily to have good money, which you might not, I do take all of that into account and you still live a nice lifestyle. Better than most. Also, most dentists are not in debt with student loans forever, so that ends and that money goes straight into your pocket.

All people like Dr. Jeff, OceanDMD and me are talking about is being a competent professional and that it takes 3-8 years to transition from the paying the bills stage to the good lifestyle stage. You cannot expect 200k within the first few years and maybe not for a while, but you may make more eventually. The reality is that Dr. Jeff and OceanDMD should know, and I know. If you don't believe us go check out DentalTown where dentists talk shop and post classifieds for associates and partners. See what people are actually being offered as associates. The market doesn't lie.

First of all, I doubt many people spend more time on dentaltown than me. Ask my wife.

Next, I have NEVER said you will make 200k out your first year. I have NEVER said you will be a millionaire overnight. I HAVE said that dentistry is an easier profession to make money in than most jobs out there, I HAVE said that dentistry will pay you very, very well, and I HAVE said that dentistry will give you more free time compared to the amount of money you make than most other jobs.

Gosh, you guys are completely missing the points of my posts and nitpicking little points that I NEVER make. You need to read my posts, and comprehend what I am writing.

Finally, why wouldn't I know? As a lot of dentists will admit, there professionals/OM/lawyers know more about the business side of dentistry then they do. BUT you guys assume that because I am in dental school, that I have no idea how the business side of dentistry works. Can I do a RCT on any tooth yet? No. Can I do a crown prep in 10 mins? Probably, but it would most likely look like crap next to one of yours. Do I know ways to market a dental practice, run an efficient schedule, where the expenses of an office come from, and many, many other things that have to do with running a practice? Yes. Don't make assumptions about things you don't know. Not only is that the biggest mistake you can make in dealing with your patients, but it can cost you help in your practice that can save you money. Just like when it comes to performing dentistry, I listen and take tips and try out different things (to make me better) from you guys, maybe all of the many years of experience I have in the business side of dentistry and working in a practice that collects 2 million plus with only 1 doc a year could help you out.

 

[armorshell]

jt04, I still think you're the best <3

 

[pmantz]

. Also, you will be glad you are a dentist when you get married and have kids and they want you to spend money on everything on tv, in magazines, and what they heard Paris Hilton is buying on the radio.

Not to mention you will actually know your kids names and interests, heck you will even be able to spend time with them.

 

[armorshell]

Not to mention you will actually know your kids names and interests, heck you will even be able to spend time with them.

If my kids ever want anything even remotely related to Paris Hilton I'm sending him to boot camp (boy) or locking her in a tall tower and building a moat around it (girl).

 

[Cold Front]

I take that into account in my post. READ EVERYTHING I WRITE BEFORE POSTING! Also, a very small percentage of dentists are associates, most of us will be in that 178k stat.

I concur.

Only ~4,500 graduates enter the field (I'm not sure about foreign dentists) of a 170,000 practicing dentists in the nation. So new associates count about 3% of the total. Even if you fall into the group that practiced for 3 years, that's is still less than 10%... so, the average is high because the majority of dentists make more than (or close to) $178K.

If you have sound business knowledge (like how to make your practice grow, and create more offices), and know how to pimp hygienists... there is nothing stopping you from becoming a wealthy dentist.

Financial Education + Dental Education + Great Personality =

 

[Rube]

I have in the business side of dentistry and working in a practice that collects 2 million plus with only 1 doc a year could help you out.

I'm sure you and I could debate certain points we have made but we both agree that Dentistry is a good profession. My point is about what it takes to live once you are out. But hey I am happy to listen to you when it comes to the business side of stuff. The more good advice the better for us all.

 

[DrJeff]

Before I forget, let me add one to my "real world" dental finacial scenario that I posted way back when.

Once you get "cruising" financially in that 5 to 7 years into your practice timeframe and you really start to pay down your accumulated debt, the urge will often strike you at that time(or your spouse) to re-up your debt in the form of a larger house, or a vacation home, a boat, or some other large cash expenditure(once again, your accountant will often tell you that some debt)

 

[johntara04]

I'm sure you and I could debate certain points we have made but we both agree that Dentistry is a good profession. My point is about what it takes to live once you are out. But hey I am happy to listen to you when it comes to the business side of stuff. The more good advice the better for us all.

True, point taken, thank you, and I completely agree.

 

[johntara04]

Before I forget, let me add one to my "real world" dental finacial scenario that I posted way back when.

Once you get "cruising" financially in that 5 to 7 years into your practice timeframe and you really start to pay down your accumulated debt, the urge will often strike you at that time(or your spouse) to re-up your debt in the form of a larger house, or a vacation home, a boat, or some other large cash expenditure(once again, your accountant will often tell you that some debt)

My wife tells me about that day every time we go for a drive, walk, go to the store, etc.