is there a best to way to pay off dental loans fast?

[gryffindor]

Bro, that 178 a year is an average of ALL dentists, associates make much less.

That average includes poor residents like me who get that ADA survey each year and bring down the average by picking the "Income = $0" box.

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[johntara04]

That average includes poor residents like me who get that ADA survey each year and bring down the average by picking the "Income = $0" box.

Wow, I didn't know that. So that means for every one of you, there is a GP who makes $356,000. I wanna be that guy. Now I just need to figure out how to do that while working 3 days a week.

 

[dentalman]

That average includes poor residents like me who get that ADA survey each year and bring down the average by picking the "Income = $0" box.

The report is titled "Income from the Private Practice of Dentistry," so they won't include your fringe data from a resident to bring down the average. I know that would make it cooler for the rest of us, but sorry!

 

[gryffindor]

The report is titled "Income from the Private Practice of Dentistry," so they won't include your fringe data from a resident to bring down the average. I know that would make it cooler for the rest of us, but sorry!

I don't remember the exact survey, but I consider myself both - a resident 8 - 5 and a private practitioner whenever I can moonlight because I hold multiple licenses, pay malpractice and have a bunch of other costs associated with private practice.

 

[airwolfrocks999]

if money is the main reason for entering dentistry, maybe one should look into being a specialist.

Given the disparity between ADA and non-ADA salary surveys and the rarity of "special" patients, I doubt specialists make near the income that some people would want to believe.

But on average, it is realistic to assume that the average specialist can easily make more income than even a general dentist who knows how to place implants ( almost impossible to get a hands-on course on ) and do invisalign.

 

[Midoc]

if money is the main reason for entering dentistry, maybe one should look into being a specialist.

Given the disparity between ADA and non-ADA salary surveys and the rarity of "special" patients, I doubt specialists make near the income that some people would want to believe.

But on average, it is realistic to assume that the average specialist can easily make more income than even a general dentist who knows how to place implants ( almost impossible to get a hands-on course on ) and do invisalign.

It seems that you have all the answers. I hope you have a nice life.

 

[blueskymine]

Hey, why not work for one or two years making bare minimum payments on those loans. Also live on as little as possible. Save all you can. Then, after you have a bunch saved up, use that to make your loan payments and live off of while training for that new mysterious line of work that has you so twitterpated. BTW, what was it again that you want to switch to .

Just a thought.

 

[12YearOldKid]

johntara, I graduated with a couple guys like you. They all KNEW they were going to be pulling in at least $200k after graduation. It wasn't until they started looking for jobs that reality set in.

That's great that you know a general dentist who produces $2million by himself. He must be very efficient and a great businessman. But that is an anomaly. Look at practices for sale; $1million practices are few and far between. Most are producing right around $400k with a net in the mid to high $100k range.

I know you're not interested, but I am extending a standing invitation for you to join the reality the rest of us live in.

 

[johntara04]

johntara, I graduated with a couple guys like you. They all KNEW they were going to be pulling in at least $200k after graduation. It wasn't until they started looking for jobs that reality set in.

That's great that you know a general dentist who produces $2million by himself. He must be very efficient and a great businessman. But that is an anomaly. Look at practices for sale; $1million practices are few and far between. Most are producing right around $400k with a net in the mid to high $100k range.

I know you're not interested, but I am extending a standing invitation for you to join the reality the rest of us live in.

Perception is reality. You do what you gotta do, and I'll do what I gotta do. It is not hard to make money in dentistry if you do it right. Every dentist that I have worked for that has found what he loves to do and does it makes very very good money. If you can't produce 3-5k a day, you (as a dentist) are doing something wrong. Maybe you are in the wrong area, providing the wrong services, you have horrible bedside manner, etc. It really isn't hard to produce 3-5k a day especially if you can keep hygiene full. Heck, if you have a full time hygiene schedule that is 80% full and you aren't producing 3-5k a day then you might not be doing your job. You might not be properly diagnosing your patients disease and by doing so, doing a disservice to them.

P.S. 3-5k a day (4 days a week) is $225,000-376,000 a year (take home before taxes). This should be expected when you have your own practice. If you can't do this, you need to re-evaluate your practice/practicing style.

 

[osubum]

Isnt the amount you produce per day before you pay your employees, rent, supplies?

 

[Cold Front]

Isnt the amount you produce per day before you pay your employees, rent, supplies?

Yep.

To 12YearOld: I agree with john; with hygienists, you could easily hit the $3-5K, even if you don't try it. Just make sure your business is set-up in a way that will make it possible; location, good team/staff, good network/referrals, your personality, being business savvy, and most importantly - the ability to believe in your potential. If you get out there with the mentality of not being able to produce above average, then you won't.

You might be the best dentist in the country, but it's a whole different story being a good businessman/woman. Majority of dentists can't be both for one reason or another; their emotions kick-in whenever they try to make business decisions. They are not aggressive enough to maximize their potential. I'm not implying that they should be monsters, but they don't understand a lot of business concepts successful companies use.

For example; front desk staff (in my opinion) are one of the greatest assets at a dental office. If you got the right people working there, you will have a constant influx of patients to keep you and the hygienists busy. It's matter of time for you to expand your office, or even start another at a different location.

The problem with dental schools is, they train students to be employees/associates, and not a business owner (even though every dentist can be one). That's why grads find the success picture challenging.

I have worked at different offices, and that's my assessment of the issue.

 

[johntara04]

Isnt the amount you produce per day before you pay your employees, rent, supplies?

Yes, if you look at my numbers you would produce $564,000-940,000 a year. Take out all the stuff you mentioned and a lot of doc take home about 40% of what they produce, which is where my numbers come from.

 

[atlanta478]

if money is the main reason for entering dentistry, maybe one should look into being a specialist.

Airwolf,

I think that you have to do what you like to do. However, for majority of us this is just a nirvana that we are trying to achieve. If you decided that you no longer like dentistry and a computer programming is your desire occupation - I would recommend to contact Dental Software companies (especially since you don’t mind to relocate) and try to get your perfect job much sooner. Devry??? I think since you finished dental school, you could get a few computer books (start with C++/Java), I am sure you have access to a computer and in 6-8 months (during your GPR) you’ll get the knowledge to start an entry level programming job. Companies like Dentrix or EagleSoft could be your future. This way you won’t loose 5 years of your life and you’ll do what you like. Compensation ??? Well, you probably won’t be rich, but you’ll do fine.

 

[osubum]

hey...sorry about this. Could you walk me through the calc you did.

Lets figure a bare-bones practice: hygenist-1(~65k/year), Assistants-2 (~35k/year), front desk-1 (~35k/year). If you have a good team, you will pay them more than these averages...would +10k for the hyg and +5k for the rest work? Then they need to have medical coverage...and possibly their families (I dont know what this would cost). You would cover dentistry for them and their kids, but the supplies could cost you a lot. There also needs to be some sort of retirement package. [of course all of these benfits are meant to keep them happy, working hard, and maximizing your profits...if someone were to leave time without that position, hiring, and re-trainning would cost you soooo much more]. Now most people require 2 weeks of vacation a year, but average gen dent clinics get significantly more...lets say 4 weeks (though all of the ones in my town get about 5). What are % costs for supplies and lab work?

The last bit is to buy or build; what woukd a practice like this cost, 300k?

Sorry, lots of q's. Could someone fill in my gaps? Thanks for your help

 

[Lesley]

hey...sorry about this. Could you walk me through the calc you did.

Lets figure a bare-bones practice: hygenist-1(~65k/year), Assistants-2 (~35k/year), front desk-1 (~35k/year). If you have a good team, you will pay them more than these averages...would +10k for the hyg and +5k for the rest work? Then they need to have medical coverage...and possibly their families (I dont know what this would cost). You would cover dentistry for them and their kids, but the supplies could cost you a lot. There also needs to be some sort of retirement package. [of course all of these benfits are meant to keep them happy, working hard, and maximizing your profits...if someone were to leave time without that position, hiring, and re-trainning would cost you soooo much more]. Now most people require 2 weeks of vacation a year, but average gen dent clinics get significantly more...lets say 4 weeks (though all of the ones in my town get about 5). What are % costs for supplies and lab work?

The last bit is to buy or build; what woukd a practice like this cost, 300k?

Sorry, lots of q's. Could someone fill in my gaps? Thanks for your help

I think most of your assumptions are correct. A recent dental economic article stated most new dentist loans are capped at around $400,000. So, while you could get a practice started at that price, it is doubtful you would be able to purchase business real estate too. That would have to come later after the practice has grown.

 

[johntara04]

hey...sorry about this. Could you walk me through the calc you did.

Lets figure a bare-bones practice: hygenist-1(~65k/year), Assistants-2 (~35k/year), front desk-1 (~35k/year). If you have a good team, you will pay them more than these averages...would +10k for the hyg and +5k for the rest work? Then they need to have medical coverage...and possibly their families (I dont know what this would cost). You would cover dentistry for them and their kids, but the supplies could cost you a lot. There also needs to be some sort of retirement package. [of course all of these benfits are meant to keep them happy, working hard, and maximizing your profits...if someone were to leave time without that position, hiring, and re-trainning would cost you soooo much more]. Now most people require 2 weeks of vacation a year, but average gen dent clinics get significantly more...lets say 4 weeks (though all of the ones in my town get about 5). What are % costs for supplies and lab work?

The last bit is to buy or build; what woukd a practice like this cost, 300k?

Sorry, lots of q's. Could someone fill in my gaps? Thanks for your help

I dunno if this helps or not, but I posted it earlier in another thread:

Honestly, it is not that hard to make money in dentistry. I work for a doctor who was mad all day yesterday because the office "only" produced a little over $5,000. You may make less than $100,000 your first year out of dental school, but that is only because your clinical skills are not up to speed. After that first year you should be fast enough in most things to get your salary to at least $150,000. I posted this example in another thread:

If you work 240 days a year (48 weeks, 5 days a week. That gives you one month off a year), you should be making well over $100,000 a year as a dentist. Let's pretend that all you do is drill and fill. Just cavaties all day long. The only supplies you buy are for filling cavaties. That is all you do, you refer everything else out. You have one assistant, one front desk person, and one hygienist. That's all the employees you have. You are a small, small office. Your hygienist sees 5 patients a day. Let's say she sees 1 SRP and 4 Prophies and x-rays on 2 of the 4 patients. You see 10 patients a day, all with 1 filling. So you produce each day:

1 SRP: $150 a quad = $600
4 Prophies: $100 x 4 = $400
2 sets of x-rays: $50 x 2 = $100
8 fillings = $100 x 10 = $1000
Your office production = $2,100 a day, (240 x $2,100) $504,000 a year

Your overhead will be very, very small with three employees and two chairs. They say the average dental office is around 65% so we will go with that number, even though with only three employees (let's say you give them no benefits, a lot of practices don't) your overhead would only be about 45-50%. So, after you drill and fill all day long, you take home around 35% of what you produced. Let's say for arguments sake you only take home 25%. So, you take home at the end of the year around $126,000.

Also, if this was your practice, I would suggest you just fire your hygienist, train your assistant and fd person in both jobs and only have 2 employees and put the $50,000 you would have paid the hygienist back into your pocket and see their patients.

Now, this estimate is very, very low. If this was you and this was reality, your overhead would not be 75% as this example says. Your practice overhead would probably be 55-60% which means your income would be around $201,000-227,000. You may struggle that first year, you may struggle those first 5 years. But even after your seven years of struggling, you will be making (by this example, which is a low estimate) $15,000+ a month. And remember, by your example you will only be around 35 years old. Thirty-five and making about what a teacher makes every month. Not too bad. Better than 95% of the jobs out there.

There are other ways to cut money as well. If you are a bare bones office that is just starting out, do you really need a hygienist? Most don't, but throw away $50,000+ a year on one. Do you need 2 assistants and a FD person? If you don't really take insurance, couldn't you just have 2 employees and cross train them to do each other's job and be just as effective? There is another $30,000 you aren't using wisely. Also, with the vacation, there is nothing wrong with making your employees take mainly the same vacation days as you do. You will take off Christmas, New Years, 4th of July, etc. Aren't those the days they would want to take off too? So, be smart, take care of your business within reason (this includes employees), do what you love and everything else will fall into place.

 

[diagnodent]

So when you graduate you magically have an office? No. That costs money. You need to take out a loan to buy or build the office. If you take out a 400k loan to buy or build your office at 9% over 7 years you are looking at about 84k/year in loan payments. The interest is deductible, the equipment is deductible but it is still a lot of money coming out of your pocket to pay for everything to produce. Please don't talk about how easy it is to run an office or how easy it is to make money. I know plenty of dentists who struggle every month. Please remember you aren't dentists yet, and don't have a good idea of how a dental office is run.

(Please don't tell me that you work/worked at an office that did so much production so you know how to do it--you don't. It's the systems the owner put in to place, its not you)

 

[johntara04]

So when you graduate you magically have an office? No. That costs money. You need to take out a loan to buy or build the office. If you take out a 400k loan to buy or build your office at 9% over 7 years you are looking at about 84k/year in loan payments. The interest is deductible, the equipment is deductible but it is still a lot of money coming out of your pocket to pay for everything to produce. Please don't talk about how easy it is to run an office or how easy it is to make money. I know plenty of dentists who struggle every month. Please remember you aren't dentists yet, and don't have a good idea of how a dental office is run.

(Please don't tell me that you work/worked at an office that did so much production so you know how to do it--you don't. It's the systems the owner put in to place, its not you)

LOL. You keep struggling.....

 

[diagnodent]

Sorry but I'm not struggling, I'm the opposite. I'm actually a dentist who has a very successful office. I have doubled my practice's production and quadrupled the income since I bought it. So you might want to listen to my advice. But I know as a "great dental student" you know all.

 

[OceanDMD]

LOL. You keep struggling.....

Nothing like having a first year STUDENT tell you how everything works, and how easy it is. Do you really think that when you leave dental school, take out your loan to start a practice, that from day one(hell from 364) that 3k to 5k of production per day is going to be soooooooooooooooo easy? These types of numbers are based on established practices with thousands of patients. I work in a practice where the senior partner has been practicing for 30 years and knows every one in town. We have a cosmetic based practice, and produce in the top 1% of all dental practices in the country. He does full mouth reconstruction( 40k cases). His daily production goal is 4k. John, you have no clue about what it takes. You may have worked in a practice that was very successful, but that certainly does not give you entitlement to belittle 99% of the dentists out there for not running a business that grosses them 300k per year. Before you start telling everyone how to run a business and produce, maybe you should wait until you have actually extracted a tooth or completed an endo case.

No one is saying that you cant do well in dentistry. However, your perception is NOT REALISTIC. Unless you are walking into a practice with tons of dentistry, and an owner who is giving you this practice walking away, AND YOU HAVE THE SPEED OF A SEASONED DENTIST, you are not going to produce on average 3-5k/day your first few years out of school. I have said this before, I speak from EXPERIENCE. I am not a first year student blowing smoke about how easy it is. I am successful and it is not easy. Not everyone wants to save that tooth with a root canal and a crown.

Bottom line, several experienced dentists have made comments on this forum about how unrealistic you are. You continue to be arrogant and all knowing based on your dental assisting/mole experience. If you need more education about reality, try dentaltown. Why not tell the dentists on that forum how much they are struggling.

 

[johntara04]

Nothing like having a first year STUDENT tell you how everything works, and how easy it is.

So because I am a first year student, I don't know how to run a dental business? Did your FD person go to dental school? Has your accountant, lawyers, etc gone to dental school? Everything the doctors say (here, in real life, on dental town) is that dental school does not prepare you at all to run a business. What does me being a first year student have to do with running a business? This is just a ridiculous "I am a doctor so I know everything, don't tell me anything because I am better than you" statement.

Do you really think that when you leave dental school, take out your loan to start a practice, that from day one(hell from 364) that 3k to 5k of production per day is going to be soooooooooooooooo easy?

Ocean, do you know how to read? If you do, please go and look at my posts and show me where I said you will leave school, go out and produce 3-5k a day. Please, I have said this before, and I say it again, READ MY POSTS, UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAY, THEN POST A RESPONSE. You never actually address what I write, you only address whatever fragments of what you thought you read that piss you off for some strange reason.

Repeat after me: Read, comprehend, then post. Read, comprehend, then post.

These types of numbers are based on established practices with thousands of patients. I work in a practice where the senior partner has been practicing for 30 years and knows every one in town. We have a cosmetic based practice, and produce in the top 1% of all dental practices in the country. He does full mouth reconstruction( 40k cases). His daily production goal is 4k.

Good for you. I work in a practice with one doctor that does the same full mouth re-constructions that you do, has surgery days on Wednesdays and his production goals for those days are $20,000. His production goals for every other day (Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri) are $5,000. His monthly production goal is $160,000 and has met that goal (and exceeded it) every month so far this year. So what's your point?

John, you have no clue about what it takes. You may have worked in a practice that was very successful, but that certainly does not give you entitlement to belittle 99% of the dentists out there for not running a business that grosses them 300k per year.

I have never said a "belittling" thing until the crap was flung my way. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Before you start telling everyone how to run a business and produce, maybe you should wait until you have actually extracted a tooth or completed an endo case.

Again, read my first paragraph in this post. What does knowing how to do an endo have to do with running a business. You aren't making any sense. There are some great endodontists who can't run a business and struggle and there are some crappy endo's that run great businesses and make a ton of money. Heck, in some states you don't even have to be a dentist to own an dental office. BEING ABLE TO DO A DENTAL PROCEDURE WELL HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RUNNING A BUSINESS.

No one is saying that you cant do well in dentistry. However, your perception is NOT REALISTIC.

My claim that you can make 200k a year is not realistic? That is AVERAGE. AVERAGE. I have not said you should expect to make 1 million a year. I have not said you will do 10,000 a day. 3-5k a day is a very REALISTIC goal. Ask any practice management group and they will agree with me.

Unless you are walking into a practice with tons of dentistry, and an owner who is giving you this practice walking away, AND YOU HAVE THE SPEED OF A SEASONED DENTIST, you are not going to produce on average 3-5k/day your first few years out of school. I have said this before, I speak from EXPERIENCE. I am not a first year student blowing smoke about how easy it is. I am successful and it is not easy. Not everyone wants to save that tooth with a root canal and a crown.

Again, Read, Comprehend, then Post. Show me where I said you will produce 3-5k a year your first year out of school. Read, Comprehend, then Post.

Bottom line, several experienced dentists have made comments on this forum about how unrealistic you are.

Bottom line, you and diagnodent are pretty much the only ones that have said I am being unrealistic. That is two.

You continue to be arrogant and all knowing based on your dental assisting/mole experience.

The above quote shows your ignorance of what I have actually posted. Read, Comprehend, then Post. Read, Comprehend, then Post.

If you need more education about reality, try dentaltown. Why not tell the dentists on that forum how much they are struggling.

Again, Read, Comprehend, then Post. Read, Comprehend, then Post. A lot of my examples come from doctors on dentaltown. Read, Comprehend, then Post. Read, Comprehend, then Post.

 

[johntara04]

Sorry but I'm not struggling, I'm the opposite. I'm actually a dentist who has a very successful office. I have doubled my practice's production and quadrupled the income since I bought it. So you might want to listen to my advice.

I don't know it all and have never claimed to know it all. Help us out. Tell us more about you. How much did you spend on your practice? What did you produce your first year out? What did you do in your practice that was a total waste of money and what did you do that was your "gold mine." What was your overhead year 1, 2, 3, etc? How many employees do you have? How many do you need? What are some dumb mistakes you have made, what would your advice be to a new doc, and what were some of the best decisions you have made?

But I know as a "great dental student" you know all.

As I said to Ocean, this is a silly statement to make. Running a business and performing an extraction are two totally different things. Don't write me off because I am a student. Knowing how to do dentistry, and knowing how to run a dental practice are two totally different things. The first you learn how to do in dental school and CE; the latter you learn elsewhere. Just because I have done my education backwards (business first, then the medical side) don't think that I don't know what I am talking about.

 

[osubum]

Average...what is the average age of those private practice dentist? Like johnatara04 had stated, he does not expect to make that kind of money straight out. That amount is the average! Does anyone know the average age of a private practice dentist (this should be about the time you reach that level of income)?

Here is a guess,
The avg grad is about 26. Most of those grads work for ~4years before they go into practice (todays avg, this maybe was not true 20yrs ago). So lets say the youngest of the private practice is 30. Bureau of labor stats says they work well past the normal retirement age, but lets put an upper end of 65. Now the labor stats also indicate their is a larger population of older dentist than younger, so we would need to weight the average a bit higher, but lets just find the middle...65-30=35...35/2=17.5...17.5+30=47.5. One should have a goal of achieving the average income at age 47.5???(thats 23 years from now for me) This is a very gross way to look at it, but it seems reasonable to think one would make the average income at half way through one's career.

Lesley,
please comment...I love reading your posts.

Disclaimer: I have a tendancy to talk out my ass!

 

[osubum]

Come to think of it, if anyone has access to a plot of avg income vs years in the field...I would love to see it! In fact we could assume that Dent is a lot like many fields in that respect and would have a very similar distribution.

I think this makes perfect sense! The "knowing how to perform an endo" other dentists have talked about isn't actually knowing how to do one...it is knowing which types you CAN DO, how fast, the difficulty of procedure before and after ( as to not wear out early), maybe even what day of the week/time of the day you are more inclined to enjoy doing it and, as a result, do it faster...I don't know much about business, do you learn all of those personal requirements for [whatever procedure we want to talk about] in business? I guess you incould infer by watching quite a few, but I wouldn't think one would have learned all of those paramteres until one has performed a couple hundered...thousand?

I want to say thanks to the more expereinced crowd. It is hard to understand what you are saying without having your experience, but I think I am getting closer to it.

Dont forget, I dont know what I am talking about on any of these issues, just thinking out loud.

 

[Lesley]

Average...what is the average age of those private practice dentist? it seems reasonable to think one would make the average income at half way through one's career.

Hi osubum, I would guess somewhere in the mid-forties would be the age of the average dentist. I think at this time it is very possible for a dentist to earn average or well above average income. Even though many may still choose to carry their dental school loans until their mid-fifities, a thirty year note, the value of that dollar will be diminished with inflation. More importantly, if during your early to mid early thirties, you take a chance and establish your own practice and work hard to grow it, you will begin to reap the rewards at the ten year mark or possibly well before. The biggest thing that you will have in your favor aside from increasing ability and confidence in your skills is your ability to explain to your patients what they need in terms they can understand. Patient acceptance of treatment plans seems to have bloomed as I have gotten older. Either I have better explanations and/or the value of having the same patients in the practice for an extended period of time has built trust trust and confidence in my opinions. At this point, you do not need to sell your dentistry, merely offer your opinion based on your patient's needs. Work literally falls in your lap. Dentistry, as you get older, gets more relaxed and less stressful, but is never with out stress, such is life and work. Finding and retaining employees is and seems to be one of the more difficult aspects of a dental practice. Even if you have a good rapport with your employees, they get married, move and have children, all of which present challenges for most dental offices. So, it is very possible to earn a good income, but no one should discount that the first few years, with or without starting or buying an existing practice, even a decade out of school are not without their financial trials and tribulations. Repaying school debt, supporting a mortgage and living expenses, raising a family on less than the average dentist income will be challenging. But, it's a challenge everyone that graduates from dental school can meet. Just plan, choose wisely and don't overspend. I have nothing but respect for anyone who graduates from d-school. We are an exceptional bunch.

 

[johntara04]

Finding and retaining employees is and seems to be one of the more difficult aspects of a dental practice. Even if you have a good rapport with your employees, they get married, move and have children, all of which present challenges for most dental offices.

The poor doctor my wife worked for in Utah has gone through 4 hygienists since my wife left. Each one has been a great employee (he said) but they all got pregnant (one actually found out she was pregnant 2 days after being hired) and decided not to work afterwards. We feel bad for him, but wonder what it is he has put in the office water. I don't think it is Flouride.

 

[airwolfrocks999]

I think this makes perfect sense! The "knowing how to perform an endo" other dentists have talked about isn't actually knowing how to do one...it is knowing which types you CAN DO, how fast, the difficulty of procedure before and after .

so is there actually a good time to start learning and doing procedures not regularly taught at dental school?

From most experience, I know of many general dentists who only perform prophies, sc/rp, restoratives, fixed/removable pros. They refer out like > 40% of their patients . I'm wondering if their incomes would start appearing respectable if they didn't have to refer out their cases.

 

[airwolfrocks999]

My claim that you can make 200k a year is not realistic? That is AVERAGE. AVERAGE. I have not said you should expect to make 1 million a year. I have not said you will do 10,000 a day. 3-5k a day is a very REALISTIC goal. Ask any practice management group and they will agree with me.

3-5k/day for specialists or general dentists?

Here's my average, the experienced general dentists in my area make ~$500/day. I don't know their production but ~$500/day is what they take home. But they don't own their offices and tend to refer out the expensive procedures. They mainly do restorative work for like ~$85/surface. I don't know why but there's either some fear or discouragement that these GPs have in learning and doing things like endos, implant placements and gingivectomies.

 

[airwolfrocks999]

- I would recommend to contact Dental Software companies (especially since you don’t mind to relocate) and try to get your perfect job much sooner. Devry??? I think since you finished dental school, you could get a few computer books (start with C++/Java)

Thanks for the advice but I have no interest in the above mentioned companies.

And I think there's some misunderstanding about programming. A few computer books don't teach the math/physics concepts that most software engineering requires. And all full-time programming jobs in engineering firms require a BS degree in comp sci.

 

[gryffindor]

3-5k/day for specialists or general dentists?

Here's my average, the experienced general dentists in my area make ~$500/day. I don't know their production but ~$500/day is what they take home. But they don't own their offices and tend to refer out the expensive procedures. They mainly do restorative work for like ~$85/surface. I don't know why but there's either some fear or discouragement that these GPs have in learning and doing things like endos, implant placements and gingivectomies.

Then you need to find a new area. I was a newbie associate dentist in one of the most saturated markets in the country doing and making what you quoted before I left for residency. My friends who are still practicing and the owner dentists are definitely making more. But it takes some confidence and risk to make it big, which is what the others on this thread have alluded to.

 

[johntara04]

3-5k/day for specialists or general dentists?

Here's my average, the experienced general dentists in my area make ~$500/day. I don't know their production but ~$500/day is what they take home. But they don't own their offices and tend to refer out the expensive procedures. They mainly do restorative work for like ~$85/surface. I don't know why but there's either some fear or discouragement that these GPs have in learning and doing things like endos, implant placements and gingivectomies.

Wow, that is hygiene pay. Your docs are getting ripped off. Like you said, they need to keep some of those high end procedures in house. You make your money on that emergency endo that walks in with 20 mins before you close. You need to be able to do those procedures. Also, the 3-5k is production so they take home around $1050-1750 for a general dentist.

 

[WHO DAT]

What is it that you dislike about dentistry that makes you want to make a change so badly? Good job for seeing your school commitment through though..that must have been tough to do with a lack of interest for what you were doing.

 

[gryffindor]

Before I recycle my copy of the ADA News, I saw a tiny blurb on the second to last page that is somewhat relevant to the discussion.

The title is "Income survey now available." It says "Full time private practicing dentists who graduated in 2002-2004 had an average net income of $133,323 in 2006. Dentists who graduated in 1995-1998 earned $217,234." Then it goes on to say how you can order the 2006 Survey of New Dentist Occupations which includes GP & specialist income info.

To me, those numbers don't sound bad at all. At least there is nowhere to go but up.

 

[Lesley]

A good, relatively recent, realistic article, "Show Me the Money."

http://www.dentalcompare.com/featuredarticle.asp?articleid=108