LMU-DCOM heightened monitoring

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So what I'm gleaning from this thread is to stay away from this school and not send a secondary over ....

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This thread is absolutely ridiculous. There are bits of truth and a good bit of exaggeration. This has been mostly two throwaway accounts echoing each other back and forth.

LMU isn’t great. It’s not even good, but it’s plenty good enough for you to get through and match somewhere decent. It’s hilarious to me that in the same thread there is “they only care about helping the lowest students!” But then at the same time are complaining about pass rates and attrition.

They are obviously trying to fix some of the issues for the lowest students because...ya know...those are the ones who fail.

There are plenty of students from here who go on to match well, whether that is in spite of the school or not is irrelevant.
 
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This thread is absolutely ridiculous. There are bits of truth and a good bit of exaggeration. This has been mostly two throwaway accounts echoing each other back and forth.

LMU isn’t great. It’s not even good, but it’s plenty good enough for you to get through and match somewhere decent. It’s hilarious to me that in the same thread there is “they only care about helping the lowest students!” But then at the same time are complaining about pass rates and attrition.

They are obviously trying to fix some of the issues for the lowest students because...ya know...those are the ones who fail.

There are plenty of students from here who go on to match well, whether that is in spite of the school or not is irrelevant.
I didn’t go here but honestly I don’t see anything wrong with people opening up about schools. We review clothes we buy, cars, other crap that doesn’t matter but not schools (or residencies) enough. Let them vent....

I’ve also counted 6-7 different people ranting not just two
 
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I didn’t go here but honestly I don’t see anything wrong with people opening up about schools. We review clothes we buy, cars, other crap that doesn’t matter but not schools (or residencies) enough. Let them vent....

I’ve also counted 6-7 different people ranting not just two

Fair enough.
 
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm mainly irritated that their attempts to "help," are obvious and active hinderances to their students.
 
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I can't speak for everyone, but I'm mainly irritated that their attempts to "help," are obvious and active hinderances to their students.
It's likely given the reactions of so many on this forum that it's worse at DCOM, but based on my experiences and many of my peers that this seems to be an issue at nearly every DO school.

My school seemed to enjoy going out of their way to make things harder than they needed to be, threatening us with labels of "unprofessionalism" at every turn if we ever voiced our true feelings. Sadly, seems par for the course.
 
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It's likely given the reactions of so many on this forum that it's worse at DCOM, but based on my experiences and many of my peers that this seems to be an issue an nearly every DO school.

My school seemed to enjoy going out of their way to make things harder than they needed to be, threatening us with labels of "unprofessionalism" at every turn if we ever voiced our true feelings. Sadly, seems par for the course.
It’s unprofessional to make them (faculty) work more than two hours a day. My old school (not this one) already knows I hate em. Told them only thing I’d donate to them ever was a cat turd and never to email me again for donations
 
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I can't speak for everyone, but I'm mainly irritated that their attempts to "help," are obvious and active hinderances to their students.
Socialism doesn’t even work in school curriculum
 
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It's likely given the reactions of so many on this forum that it's worse at DCOM, but based on my experiences and many of my peers that this seems to be an issue at nearly every DO school.

My school seemed to enjoy going out of their way to make things harder than they needed to be, threatening us with labels of "unprofessionalism" at every turn if we ever voiced our true feelings. Sadly, seems par for the course.
Some schools are definitely worse than others, especially those that jump on the greedy train by attempting to expand even before they have established the parent campus.
 
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My school seemed to enjoy going out of their way to make things harder than they needed to be, threatening us with labels of "unprofessionalism" at every turn if we ever voiced our true feelings. Sadly, seems par for the course.

Same. My school is overall very good but the whole getting threatened with unprofessionalism for simply voicing opinions gets old real fast. One time one clinical SP experience was horrendously done where a massive chunk of the class failed (we didn't do something that we never knew we were supposed to do and the people who passed barely passed) and when students used the anonymous feedback submission function a few professors got all grumpy and said that we were being unprofessional for doing it lol
 
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Same. My school is overall very good but the whole getting threatened with unprofessionalism for simply voicing opinions gets old real fast. One time one clinical SP experience was horrendously done where a massive chunk of the class failed (we didn't do something that we never knew we were supposed to do and the people who passed barely passed) and when students used the anonymous feedback submission function a few professors got all grumpy and said that we were being unprofessional for doing it lol
Firmly believing that no Faculty are a monolithic block (except maybe the OMM/OMT Faculty) I think that this kind of collective behavior (or defensive posturing) by seeking out the most student-friendly faculty and having them be your advocates.
 
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Same. My school is overall very good but the whole getting threatened with unprofessionalism for simply voicing opinions gets old real fast. One time one clinical SP experience was horrendously done where a massive chunk of the class failed (we didn't do something that we never knew we were supposed to do and the people who passed barely passed) and when students used the anonymous feedback submission function a few professors got all grumpy and said that we were being unprofessional for doing it lol
It’s just a cop out when they know they are wrong
 
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Same. My school is overall very good but the whole getting threatened with unprofessionalism for simply voicing opinions gets old real fast. One time one clinical SP experience was horrendously done where a massive chunk of the class failed (we didn't do something that we never knew we were supposed to do and the people who passed barely passed) and when students used the anonymous feedback submission function a few professors got all grumpy and said that we were being unprofessional for doing it lol
Our school is going to combine our graduation with the new optometry school’s first class’s graduation.
One student started an opposition letter and sent out an email for us to sign it. Over half our class signed and over half of the optometry class signed. It was tasteful, outlined that while we are both becoming doctors we’re 2 different professions who both deserve to be recognized in their own capacity and not as a combined entity. It’s also their first class so they deserve more recognition than they would get from our class outnumbering them more than 2:1
Administration went ballistic, demanding the identity of the student shouting about unprofessionalism.
 
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Our school is going to combine our graduation with the new optometry school’s first class’s graduation.
One student started an opposition letter and sent out an email for us to sign it. Over half our class signed and over half of the optometry class signed. It was tasteful, outlined that while we are both becoming doctors we’re 2 different professions who both deserve to be recognized in their own capacity and not as a combined entity. It’s also their first class so they deserve more recognition than they would get from our class outnumbering them more than 2:1
Administration went ballistic, demanding the identity of the student shouting about unprofessionalism.

That is despicable. This is no my unprofessional. I’m at so sick of the power trip and paternalism shown by administration.
 
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Firmly believing that no Faculty are a monolithic block (except maybe the OMM/OMT Faculty) I think that this kind of collective behavior (or defensive posturing) by seeking out the most student-friendly faculty and having them be your advocates.

Yeah we have a lot of really good faculty, and then there are some that love their power and are wont to let it go. I figure every school is like this though.
 
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Yeah we have a lot of really good faculty, and then there are some that love their power and are wont to let it go. I figure every school is like this though.

Your school is better than most though
 
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Our school is going to combine our graduation with the new optometry school’s first class’s graduation.
One student started an opposition letter and sent out an email for us to sign it. Over half our class signed and over half of the optometry class signed. It was tasteful, outlined that while we are both becoming doctors we’re 2 different professions who both deserve to be recognized in their own capacity and not as a combined entity. It’s also their first class so they deserve more recognition than they would get from our class outnumbering them more than 2:1
Administration went ballistic, demanding the identity of the student shouting about unprofessionalism.
Guess they don’t see the problem with combining graduations
 
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Our school is going to combine our graduation with the new optometry school’s first class’s graduation.
One student started an opposition letter and sent out an email for us to sign it. Over half our class signed and over half of the optometry class signed. It was tasteful, outlined that while we are both becoming doctors we’re 2 different professions who both deserve to be recognized in their own capacity and not as a combined entity. It’s also their first class so they deserve more recognition than they would get from our class outnumbering them more than 2:1
Administration went ballistic, demanding the identity of the student shouting about unprofessionalism.
Jeeze, your Administration's reaction is the most insane thing I've read in quite a while.

I understand the logic of combining graduations..it saves moneys and staff effort...but frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about saving money. It's like trying to combine yours and your cousin's wedding.

I want to see MY students graduate, not those of the other colleges at my school.

For your school...work you way up the chain of command to University Provost.CEO/President/ Chancellor.
 
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Jeeze, your Administration's reaction is the most insane thing I've read in quite a while.

I understand the logic of combining graduations..it saves moneys and staff effort...but frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about saving money. It's like trying to combine yours and your cousin's wedding.

I want to see MY students graduate, not those of the other colleges at my school.

For your school...work you way up the chain of command to University Provost.CEO/President/ Chancellor.
Need to name the school no shame in bashing higher ed when it earns it
 
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Jeeze, your Administration's reaction is the most insane thing I've read in quite a while.

I understand the logic of combining graduations..it saves moneys and staff effort...but frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about saving money. It's like trying to combine yours and your cousin's wedding.

I want to see MY students graduate, not those of the other colleges at my school.

For your school...work you way up the chain of command to University Provost.CEO/President/ Chancellor.

That’s not wise in many of these oppressive administrations. That’s going to make it much worse for those students. They hate when they get called out for being called out, going to their higher ups is going to hurt the administrator’s egos even more. I think something needs to be done but they need to tread lightly. That’s putting a serious target on their backs.
 
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That’s not wise in many of these oppressive administrations. That’s going to make it much worse for those students. They hate when they get called out for being called out, going to their higher ups is going to hurt the administrator’s egos even more. I think something needs to be done but they need to tread lightly. That’s putting a serious target on their backs.
They can’t really do anything to students if they haven’t been in trouble before. Always advised people to put their phones on record if they ever had to go to SPC or whatever the equivalent is. If you’re a top of the class student schools honestly can’t kick you out for no reason unless they want a lawsuit

I never got in trouble back in school but you is damn certain if I did I’d record everything said.

Always saw administration as nothing less than road blocks and possible lawsuits
 
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They can’t really do anything to students if they haven’t been in trouble before.
If your a top of the class student schools honestly can’t kick you out for no reason unless they want a lawsui

Oh they absolutely won't be dismissed, however there are numerous ways they can hurt students. At my school they could easily slap an unprofessional grade on you, and if you get one it legit goes on the front page of your MSPE. You can be a top student, top applicant, and many programs will avoid you because of the "unprofessional" mark on your application.
 
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Oh they absolutely won't be dismissed, however there are numerous ways they can hurt students. At my school they could easily slap an unprofessional grade on you, and if you get one it legit goes on the front page of your MSPE. You can be a top student, top applicant, and many programs will avoid you because of the "unprofessional" mark on your application.
I’d record the entire conversation and take them to court. Usually court isn’t worth it but deans letter problems totally would be. Usually there’s enough people on a council for a couple of them to say something they shouldn’t. We had several people back in my class threaten with recordings and the school knows if they said something dumb they could get in trouble.

Of course this isn’t always successful and I wouldn’t advice anyone to risk it but smartphones are SPCs worst nightmare.

Faculty are just as emotional if not more than the average student hence they always slip up.
 
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I’d record the entire conversation and take them to court. Usually court isn’t worth it but deans letter problems totally would be. Usually there’s enough people on a council for a couple of them to say something they shouldn’t. We had several people back in my class threaten with recordings and the school knows if they said something dumb they could get in trouble.

Of course this isn’t always successful and I wouldn’t advice anyone to risk it but smartphones are SPCs worst nightmare.

Faculty are just as emotional if not more than the average student hence they always slip up.
Quoting a former Dean:
"No medical school has ever been successfully sued if it was shown that their actions were not arbitrary or capricious".

Med schools aren't stupid. That's why student handbooks and protocols exits. If a school wanted to expel a student for unprofessional behavior, they'll behave like any business with even a halfway competent HR dept: the'll document everything and have a paper trail.

So it's time to step back and stop projecting your anxieties. Llousy administrations, like at LMU, are far more bark than bite.
 
Quoting a former Dean:
"No medical school has ever been successfully sued if it was shown that their actions were not arbitrary or capricious".

Med schools aren't stupid. That's why student handbooks and protocols exits. If a school wanted to expel a student for unprofessional behavior, they'll behave like any business with even a halfway competent HR dept: the'll document everything and have a paper trail.

So it's time to step back and stop projecting your anxieties. Llousy administrations, like at LMU, are far more bark than bite.
Not sure if I understand are you saying .. is it usually they won’t do anything? And the quote is basically a circular one lol.
Sort of like saying the ground is dry unless it’s not.

Are schools smart or “lousy administration”? Not sure if one place could be both.


I think we are in agreement though that students near graduation with no black marks are relatively safe from the vengeance of administration. It has always seemed getting the boot first semester is so much easier than anything past second year unless one does something superbad and non P.C. in clinicals
 
Not sure if I understand are you saying .. is it usually they won’t do anything? And the quote is basically a circular one lol.
Sort of like saying the ground is dry unless it’s not.

Are schools smart or “lousy administration”? Not sure if one place could be both.


I think we are in agreement though that students near graduation with no black marks are relatively safe from the vengeance of administration. It has always seemed getting the boot first semester is so much easier than anything past second year unless one does something superbad and non P.C. in clinicals
What I'm saying is that they're all bark and no bite.

They will do something if there's a ton of damaging info to back it up in court.

You complaining isn't going to be enough for them to do anything.
And thinking that they're vindictive enough to sabotage your MSPE with mentions of professionalism violations is paranoias. In fact, they're banking on you thinking that way to stay quiet.

If anything, schools bend over backwards to get problem children off their hands.
 
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Quoting a former Dean:
"No medical school has ever been successfully sued if it was shown that their actions were not arbitrary or capricious".

Med schools aren't stupid. That's why student handbooks and protocols exits. If a school wanted to expel a student for unprofessional behavior, they'll behave like any business with even a halfway competent HR dept: the'll document everything and have a paper trail.

So it's time to step back and stop projecting your anxieties. Llousy administrations, like at LMU, are far more bark than bite.

Again, not saying LMU’s admin isn’t horrible, but they aren’t the ones involved in this conversation about the merging of optometry and osteopathic graduations. LMU does not have an optometry program...
 
University of Pikeville—KY has a School of Optometry plus KYCOM. No, LMU is not the only DO school with problems, there are quite a few that make that list. Maybe the COCA should focus upon improving the existing DO schools before opening new ones.
 
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University of Pikeville—KY has a School of Optometry plus KYCOM. No, LMU is not the only DO school with problems, there are quite a few that make that list. Maybe the COCA should focus upon improving the existing DO schools before opening new ones.
Spoken like someone with severe unprofessionalism
 
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Again, not saying LMU’s admin isn’t horrible, but they aren’t the ones involved in this conversation about the merging of optometry and osteopathic graduations. LMU does not have an optometry program...
University of Pikeville—KY has a School of Optometry plus KYCOM. No, LMU is not the only DO school with problems, there are quite a few that make that list. Maybe the COCA should focus upon improving the existing DO schools before opening new ones.
Yep that would be KYCOM.
I mean as far as that goes, there’s nothing in COCA about graduation ceremonies being our own so they’ll save money if they can.
 
Quoting a former Dean:
"No medical school has ever been successfully sued if it was shown that their actions were not arbitrary or capricious".

Med schools aren't stupid. That's why student handbooks and protocols exits. If a school wanted to expel a student for unprofessional behavior, they'll behave like any business with even a halfway competent HR dept: the'll document everything and have a paper trail.

So it's time to step back and stop projecting your anxieties. Llousy administrations, like at LMU, are far more bark than bite.

As much as I love to **** on my school, this is one thing you can’t really dispute. For all their shadiness with academics I have never felt like they unfairly targeted students for “professionalism”. For example, we have people in my class who go on AGGRESSIVE political rants on Facebook and will outright berate anyone who challenges them with a conservative counterpoint or classmates who go on anti-Semitic rants on how certain middle eastern countries need to bomb Israel into submission and return their land to Palestine. As far as I know those people have never gotten so much as a warning from the admin.

The only guy from my class that has gotten punished for professionalism was a guy who emailed all 4 med school classes, the whole faculty, and the dean in a mass email berating the dean because he lost the student government election. They didn’t even dismiss him, he was just forced to take a 2 year LOA.

I think you have to do some really heinous **** to get outright dismissed or a permanent mark for professionalism.
 
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I think you have to do some really heinous **** to get outright dismissed or a permanent mark for professionalism.
100% correct. These are extremely rare at my school. If anything, we try to salvage these students, even if a few of the really DO need dismissal!

Oddly, in the Resident's forum, you do see more posts from residents facing dismissal over professionalism issues rather than patient safety/teachability concerns. This is the opposite of dismissal issues in the Med Student forums, which are nearly all due to academics.
 
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Report them to canary mission. I would if I saw it even though I’m not like politically polarized. Anyone saying somebody should bomb whatever country on the Internet doesn’t need to be a doctor. How will they treat jews in clinic? Probably not well if they think Israel should be made into glass

Have you been around many doctors?
 
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No never interacted with one in my life. Made it all the way to pg 2 with no interaction at all.


People say stuff all the time in person but posting on social media where everyone can see is much worse and likely to catch flak once you are in the real world

Haha, fair point.
 
Report them to canary mission. I would if I saw it even though I’m not like politically polarized. Anyone saying somebody should bomb whatever country on the Internet doesn’t need to be a doctor. How will they treat jews in clinic? Probably not well if they think Israel should be made into glass
I don't have the link handy, but I posted in this forum about the Touro-NY grads whose virulently anti-semitic texts and social media messages got her fired from Case. Actions do have consequences.
 
I have seen my school use professionalism as a cudgel. Not so much as a dismissal, but something that might be reported on your transcript and Dean's Letter. Student dismissed for professionalism at our school usually includes criminal involvement.
 
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I don't have the link handy, but I posted in this forum about the Touro-NY grads whose virulently anti-semitic texts and social media messages got her fired from Case. Actions do have consequences.

It was at the Cleveland Clinic. She tried applying for residency again by lying on her application, and she got caught again after she had gotten accepted into another residency.

 
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It's likely given the reactions of so many on this forum that it's worse at DCOM, but based on my experiences and many of my peers that this seems to be an issue at nearly every DO school.

My school seemed to enjoy going out of their way to make things harder than they needed to be, threatening us with labels of "unprofessionalism" at every turn if we ever voiced our true feelings. Sadly, seems par for the course.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Our school is going to combine our graduation with the new optometry school’s first class’s graduation.
One student started an opposition letter and sent out an email for us to sign it. Over half our class signed and over half of the optometry class signed. It was tasteful, outlined that while we are both becoming doctors we’re 2 different professions who both deserve to be recognized in their own capacity and not as a combined entity. It’s also their first class so they deserve more recognition than they would get from our class outnumbering them more than 2:1
Administration went ballistic, demanding the identity of the student shouting about unprofessionalism.
Don’t stick your neck out as a student, they can always hurt you more
 
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The beatings will continue until morale improves

Don’t stick your neck out as a student, they can always hurt you more
I’m not sticking my neck out personally because I’m in a bad enough spot as is, but I’m rooting for those who do.
 
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As much as I love to **** on my school, this is one thing you can’t really dispute. For all their shadiness with academics I have never felt like they unfairly targeted students for “professionalism”. For example, we have people in my class who go on AGGRESSIVE political rants on Facebook and will outright berate anyone who challenges them with a conservative counterpoint or classmates who go on anti-Semitic rants on how certain middle eastern countries need to bomb Israel into submission and return their land to Palestine. As far as I know those people have never gotten so much as a warning from the admin.

The only guy from my class that has gotten punished for professionalism was a guy who emailed all 4 med school classes, the whole faculty, and the dean in a mass email berating the dean because he lost the student government election. They didn’t even dismiss him, he was just forced to take a 2 year LOA.

I think you have to do some really heinous **** to get outright dismissed or a permanent mark for professionalism.

A classmate friend of mine is on permanent professionalism probation for the remainder of her time at school for “exaggerating her community service hours” that are required here over year 1 and 2. I go back and forth on if this is unfair or if it should have been a worse punishment.
 
This forum has been an interesting read. As someone with an outside perspective who is interested in higher ed (not at DCOM), what do you all want, specifically, from the school?

It sounds like the main problems identified in this thread (other than the presence of the Knoxville campus, "Harrogate sucks" and what appears to be a mixed bag of student experiences) are a lack of "quality" rotation sites, high attrition rates with a lack of transparency, a lack of board prep time. What action by LMU or DCOM would help these problems (and what perspective are you coming from - current student, prospective student, alum, etc)?
 
Yo I just wanted to post my 2 cents here.

A couple of the posts earlier made me really happy, to understand that other people know what's going on, and that in fact LMU-DCOM *is* indeed engaging in shady business re: "for-profit" education.

I am one of their victims. My life was ***Ruined*** by this school. And like every other young med student, who doesn't have the time to really truly question what's going on, I just accepted it and tried to move on, 200K in debt later with no way to pay it off, and 5 years of my life Flushed down the Drain.

Ever since DCOM told me to withdraw (after making 2 69's and a 65 after 2 years and 3 months involved with the school), my life has been a complete mess. Failing out when you're that far along is literally like an atomic bomb in your life. You're supposed to go in with a fair chance of making it. Instead, you are *told* you have a fair chance of making it, when the reality is that you don't.

5 years of my life, WASTED. 70-90 hours a week. All that, for *nothing*.

Let me put it like this.

When I started in 2012, (Yes, it's been 5 years now and the aftereffects of what that school has done to my life are *still* a matter - I do my best to try to move on every day but you can't imagine what it's been like...) we were told that our class had a 95% graduation rate and a 90% residency placement rate in the first year. That sounds like a reasonable chance of making it, particularly if you're a hard-working individual who does not give up.

You know how it ended up in 2016?

176 people, out of a starting class of 242, landed residency spots. That is 73% of the class. I have these numbers memorized at this point.

It is indeed shady how they are calculating it. They are trying to run away with the matter by making a matter of their calculations. They say they calculate it every year, and they try to spread out their numbers, etc.

With data analysis and analytics becoming a bigger and bigger thing every day, it's starting to become clear how they are hiding the damage they are causing entire cohorts of students every year.

I'm not the only one.

The reason DCOM is in the limelight for this stuff is because their class size is so big. The year I started, we had the biggest class size of any D.O. school in America. That was supposed to be a "cool" thing.

But the fact is that if I had just gone to UQ in Australia (my other offer), I would have at least had the chance to fall back on becoming a physician in Australia if I couldn't pass USMLE or something along those lines. There was a fallback for people who were "on the border".

I *sincerely* hope this message gets out. This school *destroyed* my life. This is not a joke. It's been 5 years now. I'm still wrecked.

Please somebody contact me [email protected] if there are any pending lawsuits against this school.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DCOM For Profit
 
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