Looking for a good American premed university to transfer to

[ranob]

Three requirements:
1) has an engineering graduate school and a medical school
2) undergraduates are allowed to take courses from all three schools (undergraduate, graduate, and medical) without needing the permission of directors/department heads/deans/chairs/bureaucrats, if their adviser and the professors teaching the courses approve.
A) professors are allowed to waive prerequisites for the courses they teach, if they judge the student to be qualified
3) professors have enough autonomy to make decisions that are not based on university politics and do not advance their own careers at the expense of undergraduate students.

Anyone happen to know of any schools that meet these requirements, and have reasonable rankings (ideally top 20)?

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[referee3]

Lol no such thing exists. Stay in your country and practice medicine there.

 

[redpanda]

Three requirements:
1) has an engineering graduate school and a medical school
2) undergraduates are allowed to take courses from all three schools (undergraduate, graduate, and medical) without needing the permission of directors/department heads/deans/chairs/bureaucrats, if their adviser and the professors teaching the courses approve.
A) professors are allowed to waive prerequisites for the courses they teach, if they judge the student to be qualified
3) professors have enough autonomy to make decisions that are not based on university politics and do not advance their own careers at the expense of undergraduate students.

Anyone happen to know of any schools that meet these requirements, and have reasonable rankings (ideally top 20)?

Sounds like someone has a beef with university administration here. Quite frankly, I have a hard time thinking of a case where an undergrad is going to be allowed into what is always a med-student-only course when the amount of resources sunk (financial, manpower, and otherwise) into a med school course are far higher than the undergrad courses. Also, on a block schedule in med school, an undergrad with other normal-semester-schedule courses is going to have a heck of a time keeping up with all of them.

 

[Catalystik]

I have a hard time thinking of a case where an undergrad is going to be allowed into what is always a med-student-only course when the amount of resources sunk (financial, manpower, and otherwise) into a med school course are far higher than the undergrad courses.

I agree.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

DNE

 

[gyngyn]

1. Many
2. None
3. No

 

[Feelgood Inc]

Penn somewhat fits the criteria but I don't think you are allowed to enroll in classes at Perelman.

 

[HybridEarth]

university of Illinois (Urbana) is going to have an engineering focused medical school curriculum when it opens in a few years. Doubt it will match your criteria though...

 

[samac]

. . . You're a troll right?

You're not going to find one that fits those criteria. Sorry.

 

[ranob]

@referee3
That's kind of the point, I'm looking for good universities in my country (America) to transfer to.

@Feelgood Inc
Thanks, I'll look into UPenn.

@redpanda
The sunk costs are fixed though, and not impacted by an additional student taking the course. I mean, most of the top universities offer online versions of their medical school courses anyways...

To clarify re: point 2, it's as much about the course as it is the professor. Indeed, professors that primarily teach undergraduate courses tend to be much less intelligent and knowledgeable than those that teach graduate/medical school courses. I do want to be able to take graduate courses without needing the permission of directors/department heads/deans/chairs/bureaucrats, but for med school ones, it's not all that important whether the course is officially held at the medical school or for med school students so long as a med school professor is teaching it. With this relaxation in mind, perhaps more schools fit the bill?

 

[referee3]

@referee3
That's kind of the point, I'm looking for good universities in my country (America) to transfer to.

@Feelgood Inc
Thanks, I'll look into UPenn.

@redpanda
The sunk costs are fixed though, and not impacted by an additional student taking the course. I mean, most of the top universities offer online versions of their medical school courses anyways...

To clarify re: point 2, it's as much about the course as it is the professor. Indeed, professors that primarily teach undergraduate courses tend to be much less intelligent and knowledgeable than those that teach graduate/medical school courses. I do want to be able to take graduate courses without needing the permission of directors/department heads/deans/chairs/bureaucrats, but for med school ones, it's not all that important whether the course is officially held at the medical school or for med school students so long as a med school professor is teaching it. With this relaxation in mind, perhaps more schools fit the bill?

LOL the bolded point confirms it; You sir are a troll. Please see yourself to the exit.

 

[ranob]

@referee3 Are you an undergrad professor by any chance? It's generally accepted that the more credentialed a professor is, the more knowledgeable and intelligent they are.

 

[redpanda]

@redpanda
The sunk costs are fixed though, and not impacted by an additional student taking the course. I mean, most of the top universities offer online versions of their medical school courses anyways...

I think you're confused here. It is highly unlikely that someone is going to let you freeload on a medical student only course when everyone else has paid tuition in one way or another. The resourcing of med student courses is high and there's a reason (outside of the clinical assignments) that it becomes a cluster**** when a medical school over-enrolls a class by like 20/150 students even when those people are tuition paying (aka there just isn't space and more resources). And, no, I don't see anyone offering online MS2 nephrology courses with your own small group facilitator for you and 8 other people.

 

[CannedPineapple]

 

[justadream]

@referee3
That's kind of the point, I'm looking for good universities in my country (America) to transfer to.

@Feelgood Inc
Thanks, I'll look into UPenn.

@redpanda
The sunk costs are fixed though, and not impacted by an additional student taking the course. I mean, most of the top universities offer online versions of their medical school courses anyways...

To clarify re: point 2, it's as much about the course as it is the professor. Indeed, professors that primarily teach undergraduate courses tend to be much less intelligent and knowledgeable than those that teach graduate/medical school courses. I do want to be able to take graduate courses without needing the permission of directors/department heads/deans/chairs/bureaucrats, but for med school ones, it's not all that important whether the course is officially held at the medical school or for med school students so long as a med school professor is teaching it. With this relaxation in mind, perhaps more schools fit the bill?

/facepalm

 

[WedgeDawg]

Go to Harvard I hear that's a good school

 

[gyngyn]

Go to Harvard I hear that's a good school

And they grade easy too!
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/12/average_grade_at_harvard_is_a-.html

 

[Neutropix]

And they grade easy too!
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/12/average_grade_at_harvard_is_a-.html

"Harvard College represents the golden cloud, the place where the most competitive high school students in America strive to enter and form the lifelong networks that will propel them into the world's ruling elite. The rest of the university, no matter how prestigious, rich, and powerful their graduates may become, are mere trade schools. And that trade school taint includes the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences."

hehe

 

[gyngyn]

"Harvard College represents the golden cloud, the place where the most competitive high school students in America strive to enter and form the lifelong networks that will propel them into the world's ruling elite. The rest of the university, no matter how prestigious, rich, and powerful their graduates may become, are mere trade schools. And that trade school taint includes the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences."

There's a really good PS in there somewhere...

 

[ranob]

UPenn doesn't accept spring transfer applications, which is really lame. Are there seriously no other universities that have a medical school and let undergraduates take graduate level classes? (Harvard doesn't count)

 

[HybridEarth]

Not for engineering, no. I am an undergrad at Loyola and I know for a fact many of the undergrad classes sometimes overlap with grad-level bio classes.

Edit: and statistics

 

[hoihaie]

call each of the top 20 schools and ask them since you're only interested in those schools. Not that many to call.

 

[Lucca]

Lol im so glad I clicked on this thread.

 

[justadream]

UPenn doesn't accept spring transfer applications, which is really lame. Are there seriously no other universities that have a medical school and let undergraduates take graduate level classes? (Harvard doesn't count)

Actually, none of the Ivy League/Stanford/MIT accept Spring transfer students.

Also, why are you so caught up with being able to take graduate level classes? These schools have thousands of undergrad level classes to take. I'm sure you can find at least a few classes at Harvard that are sufficiently "intellectual" and that have professors who are "smart enough" for you.

 

[redpanda]

UPenn doesn't accept spring transfer applications, which is really lame. Are there seriously no other universities that have a medical school and let undergraduates take graduate level classes? (Harvard doesn't count)

You are confusing graduate level classes with medical school classes or you're doing a really poor job of actually writing what you want. Sure, you can take graduate level bio classes at all kinds of universities that also happen to have a medical school. Will any of the courses you're allowed to take be the med school course? Almost certainly not.

 

[ranob]

You are confusing graduate level classes with medical school classes or you're doing a really poor job of actually writing what you want. Sure, you can take graduate level bio classes at all kinds of universities that also happen to have a medical school. Will any of the courses you're allowed to take be the med school course? Almost certainly not.

To be clear, I'm looking for a university that lets me take these graduate courses without needing the permission of directors/department heads/deans/chairs/bureaucrats, if my adviser and the professors teaching the course approve.

@justadream
I didn't get into Harvard. My current university does not have a lot of great undergraduate courses. Long story short, I managed to sneak a grad course by the bureaucracy this semester as the professor teaching the course was established enough that he didn't have to bother with the bureaucrats, but now they've wised up and are obstructing me to the fullest extent possible.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

And they grade easy too!
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/12/average_grade_at_harvard_is_a-.html

That Obama jab was weird.

"Harvard College represents the golden cloud, the place where the most competitive high school students in America strive to enter and form the lifelong networks that will propel them into the world's ruling elite. The rest of the university, no matter how prestigious, rich, and powerful their graduates may become, are mere trade schools. And that trade school taint includes the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences."

hehe

Don't worry their **** stinks just like the rest of us!

 

[WingedOx]

That Obama jab was weird.



Don't worry their **** stinks just like the rest of us!

American Thinker is basically what would happen if you took writers from Newsmax/National Review/The Weekly Standard and gave them anoxic brain injury.

also, this post is not a bookmark... nope... not at all...

 

[WingedOx]

btw, I'm SOOOOO interested to know where OP goes now...

 

[cs24]

To be clear, I'm looking for a university that lets me take these graduate courses without needing the permission of directors/department heads/deans/chairs/bureaucrats, if my adviser and the professors teaching the course approve.

@justadream
I didn't get into Harvard. My current university does not have a lot of great undergraduate courses. Long story short, I managed to sneak a grad course by the bureaucracy this semester as the professor teaching the course was established enough that he didn't have to bother with the bureaucrats, but now they've wised up and are obstructing me to the fullest extent possible.

On the off chance you aren't a troll, then as has been said you can take GRADUATE courses at most universities, assuming you've met prereqs, etc. You will not be able to take MEDICAL school courses, nor should you want to go through that pain multiple times, assuming you plan on medical school eventually.

And chill out on your silly no prereqs, no obstructing professors requirements. No one is going to give a damn about trying to obstruct you from taking more upper level courses if you are a good student. And prereq courses are there for a reason, just take them and then move up to the upper levels.

 

[referee3]

I know Rutgers lets you take grad courses if you have all the required prereqs. You still need to get admin approval but it is relatively common and people do it all the time. Of course rutgers isn't top 20, but it's an option.

 

[biochemgirl67]

From someone who has taken multiple graduate level courses, take the prereqs. You need them. They aren't there to inconvenience you, no matter how "qualified" you think you are. I mean, I don't know anything about medical school, but graduate school is DIFFICULT. It's a totally different type of learning.

Try Iowa State University. Their science/engineering are phenomenal. Although they do not have a medical school, their genetics, microbiology, biochemistry, and biophysics programs all have high placement rates for the people that apply to medical school. And they have a premier vet school where you can do biomedical research on animal models. They are a leader in chemical research, medical research from their vet school, and genetics. But I may be biased.

BTW I've taken graduate: virology, biochemistryI/II, molecular signaling, immunology, and molecular genetics so far. Also, I will have taken advances in developmental biology, molecular biophysics/biophysics lab, and biochemistry of gene expression in eukaryotes by the time I graduate. So yeah, they offer some grad courses.