Match Week and rotations

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MrDocMD

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I'm on an ENT rotation and the other student on the rotation has already decided to call in sick on Monday of match week because he's worried they won't let him take off. Friday is no problem because the school has a program for match day, but Monday there's no official policy to take off. I want that day off too but I don't want to lie. In your experience do you find that residents and attendings are understanding of taking that day off? Its not like I'll be able to concentrate in surgery that morning.

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Why would you need to take off the entire day? Ask to be excused at noon, walk away, check your phone, and if you matched do a little happy dance and then go back to work. If not, then let your attending or resident know and go work on SOAP.
 
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Just say "i need to see if i matched or else i have to soap. Please excuse me."
 
Agreed. Why would you need Monday off? If you let the resident know you're expecting the 'matched or not' e-mail, I'm sure they'll be understanding of you checking your e-mail around that time, and if you have to SOAP, you can just excuse yourself.
 
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That's what I was planning to do until the other student said he was taking off the whole day because he doesn't want to get stuck in a long surgery. He also made another good point and that is that there has to be a place to soap and at this hospital there isn't other than the nursing work station. Students don't have access to the residents room.
 
I don't know what your medical school is like, but my understanding is that a lot of medical schools will send out a pre-SOAP plan so that students know exactly what to do and where to go in the event that they don't match.
 
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I don't know what your medical school is like, but my understanding is that a lot of medical schools will send out a pre-SOAP plan so that students know exactly what to do and where to go in the event that they don't match.

Yes, my director has already given me full access to use her office during match week in the event I have to soap.
 
I didn't know that. I haven't heard anything from school yet. I'll call my school in the morning.
 
Our school's Dean's Office is officially closed to the public to focus on M4s. Also, if we don't match we will get paged at the least. And then hunted down, i.e, they call the service to find out where you were.
 
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If you are in surgery just tell the circulator "Hey can you check my phone at noon, please?"
 
I didn't know that. I haven't heard anything from school yet. I'll call my school in the morning.

Dude, it's a week and a half away. Calm down. If you don't hear about the pre-match plan by NEXT Thursday or Friday, then call. Trust me, your medical school is not going to do anything at this point to hurt you. It reflects too poorly on them to have students who don't even find a spot with the SOAP.
 
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We were also informed of a SOAP plan and told to contact student affairs as soon as we find out. Also told that if we do not contact them they will contact us.

You don't need the day off.
 
Your classmate sounds like an idiot. Does he really think that the attendings don't know when the match is and won't be suspicious when he calls in sick?

As others have noted you don't need the whole day off and he's risking his grade for being caught in this lie.

At any rate, check with your school and see what provisions are being made for those who don't match. You can always tell your attendings on Friday when the match news comes out and what your schools plan is so that if you need time off there will be advance notice.
 
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Your classmate sounds like an idiot. Does he really think that the attendings don't know when the match is and won't be suspicious when he calls in sick?

As others have noted you don't need the whole day off and he's risking his grade for being caught in this lie.

At any rate, check with your school and see what provisions are being made for those who don't match. You can always tell your attendings on Friday when the match news comes out and what your schools plan is so that if you need time off there will be advance notice.

Grade? its fourth year just show your face every now and again and get a pass. I hear there's a nasty case of diarrhea going around who knows he may have caught that 24 hour bug....I'm pretty sure I'm dumber for having experienced fourth year (it is awesome to chillax though). 95% of my time is wasted and I haven't learned anything. What a total was of a year and 50K.
 
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I can't believe so many people are going in to the hospital on Monday. I asked for the day off. I'll be completely nonfunctional anyway and would never let a nurse be the one to read my email and tell me if I matched while I was scrubbed into surgery. But I'm moderately concerned about notmatching. I guess if it's a sure thing maybe that'd be different.
 
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Your classmate sounds like an idiot. Does he really think that the attendings don't know when the match is and won't be suspicious when he calls in sick?

As others have noted you don't need the whole day off and he's risking his grade for being caught in this lie.

At any rate, check with your school and see what provisions are being made for those who don't match. You can always tell your attendings on Friday when the match news comes out and what your schools plan is so that if you need time off there will be advance notice.


Who the F cares?! You are in fourth year… The whole point of fourth year is to show up. If push comes to shove, and you really want that day off, then call in sick. It's not brain surgery
 
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Who the F cares?! You are in fourth year… The whole point of fourth year is to show up. If push comes to shove, and you really want that day off, then call in sick. It's not brain surgery
Unless you are on a neurosurgery rotation...then it is brain surgery
 
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My school mandates that all students be on campus and available in case they need to SOAP. Most of them are very confident that they will match somewhere on their ranklist, but for anyone who is paranoid or truly worried about not matching, they take the day off and go back to campus.
 
Same, my school makes all students be on campus in the event that you don't match. You're a 4th year though, I would just mention it in a matter - of - fact kind of way 'I won't be here monday'... are they going to fail you? No. You have no bearing on patient care at all. A lot of attendings are very understanding and were once in your shoes.
 
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Who the F cares?! You are in fourth year… The whole point of fourth year is to show up. If push comes to shove, and you really want that day off, then call in sick. It's not brain surgery
Is that really the point of fourth year? It doesn't seem to say that in my faculty manual.

You want to blow off your rotations then so be it but don't expect that I'm dumb enough to think that when you call in sick when match results comes out that it's the truth.

Treat me like a professional colleague and act like an adult - just be honest and say you want the day off in case you need SOAP. Theres no need to lie.
 
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Grade? its fourth year just show your face every now and again and get a pass. I hear there's a nasty case of diarrhea going around who knows he may have caught that 24 hour bug....I'm pretty sure I'm dumber for having experienced fourth year (it is awesome to chillax though). 95% of my time is wasted and I haven't learned anything. What a total was of a year and 50K.
I am asked to provide a graded evaluation and number of days missed for every student that rotates with me during fourth year. Perhaps some schools take fourth-year a little more seriously or at least some rotations.

I am well aware that a lot of fourth-year is wasted time and agree that it could be seriously condensed.

However what I object to is the fact that someone thinks they need to lie rather than acting like a grown-up professional colleague and simply having a discussion with their attending about needing time off. From our vantage point if someone is willing to lie about something so small and stupid (when I would venture that most attendings would be very understanding about needing time off that day), it makes me wonder what else the student and soon-to-be physician would lie about.

I can guarantee you I am not the only one who thinks this way because I've heard that comment multiple times from my colleagues.
 
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You don't need the Monday off. You check your phone at some point to see if you matched. If you didn't, you take off the rest of the week, with the schools backing. But nothing really is going to happen that afternoon even if you need to soap, and for sure nothing besides celebrating will happen if you match. Remember, 93% of all US allo people match so odds are you have nothing to worry about. And even if you don't match, you can start worrying once you get out of the OR -- things don't move that fast that a few hours make any difference. Your school will work with you but the days of needing to work the phones to get your application in front of people with open spots first, buying multiple fax machines and second cell phones to have an edge, etc, kind of ended when the "scramble" ended. You call your deans office later in the day if you don't match (they will already know and may contact you first), and they will tell you what to do. No reason to be sitting at home watching the email.
 
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WS is right about the other student. It's a stupid, high risk, low reward lie. If the other student didn't match, then there's a good chance he'll spent a lot of the day in and around the med school/hospital, providing evidence to others that he was, in fact, not ill. It's low reward because most services will be understanding of needing to be excused to participate in SOAP anyway, and - failing that - the school will likely intervene on behalf of the student.
 
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I'd much rather check my status at home, in my PJs, with a cup of coffee in hand than scuttle off between procedures to check on my phone. And I would be shocked if I didn't match. I think this is perfectly acceptable and I'm surprised the attendings in this thread seem to be so nonchalant about the day we get emailed to see if we matched or not. I agree we should just be honest about taking the day off and not call in sick, but it's 4th year and it's 1 day.
 
I'd much rather check my status at home, in my PJs, with a cup of coffee in hand than scuttle off between procedures to check on my phone. And I would be shocked if I didn't match. I think this is perfectly acceptable and I'm surprised the attendings in this thread seem to be so nonchalant about the day we get emailed to see if we matched or not. I agree we should just be honest about taking the day off and not call in sick, but it's 4th year and it's 1 day.

As an attending or a resident, I would much rather have the students there and doing their job than sitting at home. Check your email and if you didn't match, by all means go and take care of it. If you did match, then you can do your little happy dance and then get back to work. Let's be honest and say that taking the day off to be able to check your status at home all relaxed and in your PJs is a waste of everyone's time. We are hopefully all adults here...
 
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4th year is a disgusting extortion especially considering the mission of many medical schools to push for primary care and serving the poor.

There's no reason why we can't just have 4th year as a gap year where we pay no tuition and just do our interviews, or perhaps dabble in some research. ERAS applications, interviews, Step 2 CS already push the budget beyond $10,000 for many of us. Add to that the $40-50k of tuition is simply unethical business practice to siphon every penny from the people who are then asked to help the poor. Just because you can and hold a captive audience, doesn't mean you should.

Many of us haven't even been on campus for months, but we're still asked to pay what is the median household income in the US in addition to the thousands of dollars of airplane tickets, hotels, rental cars, endless application and NRMP fees. After all this **** sandwich we're asked to swallow, you couldn't make Match Day or that Monday a school-wide holiday?

So pardon me when I don't relate to the faux sense of professionalism that some of the above attendings are expressing. This whole process has been an incredible extortion out of naive, hardworking students. All of the current faculty members and attendings who don't do anything to protest this gouging, or even bother to reflect the idiocy of fourth year, and thereby maintain the status quo are really all part of the problem.
 
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I'd much rather check my status at home, in my PJs, with a cup of coffee in hand than scuttle off between procedures to check on my phone. And I would be shocked if I didn't match. I think this is perfectly acceptable and I'm surprised the attendings in this thread seem to be so nonchalant about the day we get emailed to see if we matched or not. I agree we should just be honest about taking the day off and not call in sick, but it's 4th year and it's 1 day.

I'd much rather be at home, in my PJs with a cup of coffee in my hand 100% of the time...but that doesn't mean I am.

4th year is a disgusting extortion especially considering the mission of many medical schools to push for primary care and serving the poor.

So pardon me when I don't relate to the faux sense of professionalism that some of the above attendings are expressing. This whole process has been an incredible extortion out of naive, hardworking students. All of the current faculty members and attendings who don't do anything to stop this gouging, or even bother to reflect the idiocy of fourth year, and thereby maintain the status quo are really all part of the problem.

You're slightly off topic, but I'm a 4th year student myself. Just because 4th year is largely a waste of time (I would say about 70% waste of time, but goodness knows I'm glad for a bit of a break...there's no way I could have gone straight from 3rd year to intern year, but I digress) does not mean it makes one iota of sense to "pretend" to be sick on a day when attendings/residents KNOW it's the day you find out you match. In fact, they're probably going to think that you're faking sick just so you can stay home and get smashed all day.

Bottom line, these posts about calling in reek of entitlement. In medicine, you don't get to call in just because you "feel like it" or because you'd rather be doing something else. It makes me sad that you've gotten this far without recognizing that fact.
 
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As an attending or a resident, I would much rather have the students there and doing their job than sitting at home. Check your email and if you didn't match, by all means go and take care of it. If you did match, then you can do your little happy dance and then get back to work. Let's be honest and say that taking the day off to be able to check your status at home all relaxed and in your PJs is a waste of everyone's time. We are hopefully all adults here...

The "job" I would otherwise be doing is sitting in the pathology sign-out room. Yep, I am totally needed there. I understand the obligations if you're on a sub-I or doing a surgery rotation where your hands may be needed in the OR to retract, but if you're doing a BS rotation like most of us are at this point in the year, I am all for taking Match Monday off. I guess it's your own fault if you schedule a time-intensive elective in March.
 
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The "job" I would otherwise be doing is sitting in the pathology sign-out room. Yep, I am totally needed there. I understand the obligations if you're on a sub-I or doing a surgery rotation where your hands may be needed in the OR to retract, but if you're doing a BS rotation like most of us are at this point in the year, I am all for taking Match Monday off. I guess it's your own fault if you schedule a time-intensive elective in March.

I don't think you're getting it. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're needed. By your logic, you're not "needed" ever on your rotation. Why not just skip the whole month?
 
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I'm glad I'm a student in Ireland, because match Monday is St. Patrick's day and we get the day off, so no need to call in sick. In fact, it's more-or-less expected that I will be at the pub anyway when results come out!
 
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I don't think you're getting it. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're needed. By your logic, you're not "needed" ever on your rotation. Why not just skip the whole month?

I think you're missing my point entirely. I'm paying for this education, I take it seriously, but I don't think it's unprofessional to take a day off like that.
 
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I'm on an ENT rotation and the other student on the rotation has already decided to call in sick on Monday of match week because he's worried they won't let him take off. Friday is no problem because the school has a program for match day, but Monday there's no official policy to take off. I want that day off too but I don't want to lie. In your experience do you find that residents and attendings are understanding of taking that day off? Its not like I'll be able to concentrate in surgery that morning.
Your friend is still thinking like a 3rd year. Who cares if they think he is weak or his excuses are not worth it? Just tell the team you need to take time around 12 to check your email. If you don't match you need to call your school and prepare a second application, so that is not something that I'd personally want to wait to find out about until the end of the day which could happen if you're stuck in some marathon case. And if you didn't match, again who cares about what they think of you? At that point you'd just announce you are leaving so you can salvage your future. If they have a problem with that, too bad.
 
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Bottom line, these posts about calling in reek of entitlement. In medicine, you don't get to call in just because you "feel like it" or because you'd rather be doing something else. It makes me sad that you've gotten this far without recognizing that fact.

Personally, I don't plan to call in because my residents are super cool about me checking my email that day promptly at noon. HOWEVER, what in the world is this ridiculous rant about??? They're not saying they want to take the day off to get smashed. They're saying they want to take the day off to find out potentially life-changing information in private. Not everyone wants an audience who knows it's Match Day and will undoubtedly badger you the second they see you "did you match? Did you match? Did you match?" If someone thinks it's a good possibility they won't match, they don't want to have to admit it to their residents and/or attendings moments after they've gotten the news. It's devastating enough not matching. There's nothing like rubbing salt in the wound by announcing it to the world -- and yes, it IS announcing it to the world, the medicine world at your school/hospital who will all find out once the other student on the service sees you dashing towards the door to go to school and begin the SOAP process.

Some of you throw the world entitlement around, parroting others so often, I doubt you know what it even means. If you did, you surely wouldn't use it here.
 
The "job" I would otherwise be doing is sitting in the pathology sign-out room. Yep, I am totally needed there. I understand the obligations if you're on a sub-I or doing a surgery rotation where your hands may be needed in the OR to retract, but if you're doing a BS rotation like most of us are at this point in the year, I am all for taking Match Monday off. I guess it's your own fault if you schedule a time-intensive elective in March.

You don't owe these strangers an explanation. You PAY to be there. I think some of these folks are forgetting that med students are paying tuition to be at the hospital in the first place. They're still students. If they need a day off to find out if they matched in private, they should be allowed to take it.

My school allows us to miss one day per rotation. After that, we can make up missed days. I would bet most schools have a similar policy and that policy is there for a reason.
 
I don't think you're getting it. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're needed. By your logic, you're not "needed" ever on your rotation. Why not just skip the whole month?

You just destroyed your entire argument.
 
This is getting ridiculous. Apparently, some of you need to be reminded that the original issue was that a student was being purposefully deceitful by falsely calling in sick in order to learn this information at his leisure, in private and at home. If a student feels like it's reasonable to get this day off, then sac up and be open about it. If the school's policy and services' requirements are so Draconian as to not allow this after an open request, then that sucks, but it's also life. If you happen not to match, then it won't be the last time you get crappy news in public and have to deal with it. None of that excuses lying under the absurd rationalizations that you're not needed, you don't owe anyone an explanation for your absence, or that you're paying to be there.
 
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Its not unprofessional to take a day off to resolve any match issues; its unprofessional to lie about it.

Frankly, I agree with you guys that it would make more sense to have it an official school holiday because of the potential need for time off and I can imagine how horrible it would be to face classmates and faculty if you didn't match. But please spare us the comments about "you guys don't remember, we're *paying* to be there" or any of the other ridiculous rationalizations. Even back in the dark ages when the attendings here were medical students, we paid tuition as well. It wasn't that long ago.

Finally, I'm rather bemused to see some of the same people talking about how 4th year is a waste of time but one of the arguments they throw around is that an MD/DO is better trained than an NP BECAUSE they do 4 years.
 
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This is getting ridiculous. Apparently, some of you need to be reminded that the original issue was that a student was being purposefully deceitful by falsely calling in sick in order to learn this information at his leisure, in private and at home. If a student feels like it's reasonable to get this day off, then sac up and be open about it. If the school's policy and services' requirements are so Draconian as to not allow this after an open request, then that sucks, but it's also life. If you happen not to match, then it won't be the last time you get crappy news in public and have to deal with it. None of that excuses lying under the absurd rationalizations that you're not needed, you don't owe anyone an explanation for your absence, or that you're paying to be there.

I never condoned lying about it. My whole point was that this should be accepted, provided the student says he needs the day off to find out if he matched. And I, for one, didn't say the poster doesn't owe anyone an explanation. I said he doesn't owe the strangers on this board an explanation.
 
But please spare us the comments about "you guys don't remember, we're *paying* to be there" or any of the other ridiculous rationalizations.

That comment was not directed to you. It was directed to the poster who calls others entitled because they want to take the day off. The point was that in paying tuition, requesting a day off when you're not even needed to be there does not fulfill the definition of "entitlement." In fact, it's the furthest thing from it.
 
Its not unprofessional to take a day off to resolve any match issues; its unprofessional to lie about it.

Frankly, I agree with you guys that it would make more sense to have it an official school holiday because of the potential need for time off and I can imagine how horrible it would be to face classmates and faculty if you didn't match. But please spare us the comments about "you guys don't remember, we're *paying* to be there" or any of the other ridiculous rationalizations. Even back in the dark ages when the attendings here were medical students, we paid tuition as well. It wasn't that long ago.

Finally, I'm rather bemused to see some of the same people talking about how 4th year is a waste of time but one of the arguments they throw around is that an MD/DO is better trained than an NP BECAUSE they do 4 years.

I'm amused by people who say 4th year is a joke... Last time I checked, we get to make our own schedules- so looks like you made it into a joke by taking nothing but anesthesia, radiology and "research".

Just don't lie. If you need the day off ask for it.
 
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Its not unprofessional to take a day off to resolve any match issues; its unprofessional to lie about it.

Frankly, I agree with you guys that it would make more sense to have it an official school holiday because of the potential need for time off and I can imagine how horrible it would be to face classmates and faculty if you didn't match. But please spare us the comments about "you guys don't remember, we're *paying* to be there" or any of the other ridiculous rationalizations. Even back in the dark ages when the attendings here were medical students, we paid tuition as well. It wasn't that long ago.

Finally, I'm rather bemused to see some of the same people talking about how 4th year is a waste of time but one of the arguments they throw around is that an MD/DO is better trained than an NP BECAUSE they do 4 years.
To be fair, it's not like the the NP training path has less junk time than med school. In fact I would say it has more.
 
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That comment was not directed to you. It was directed to the poster who calls others entitled because they want to take the day off. The point was that in paying tuition, requesting a day off when you're not even needed to be there does not fulfill the definition of "entitlement." In fact, it's the furthest thing from it.

Trust me, I'm sympathetic to people who don't match. I've had friends who didn't match. It blows. It could happen to any of us, myself included. But, 1. If you're that worried about it, you should be on campus, in close proximity to an advisor, ready to get to work and not at "home in your pajamas" and 2. I wish it were as simple as "we pay them, therefore we deserve days off." Heck, I've missed weddings, family birthdays. I don't schedule doctors appointments when I know I'm on duty. And trust me, I know I'm not essential. They don't need me there. But until medical schools start allowing students to take "vacation days" we don't get to take days off. I wish we did. But that's life.

My overall point is that you don't need the whole day off to find out if you match. Sure, it would suck to have to be around people and talk to them immediately, but you're going to have to go to campus anyway. You're going to see your classmates. You're going to have to face your attendings. And it sucks, it makes you want to cry every time you see a new person, but it's life. And sometimes life sucks.
 
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Trust me, I'm sympathetic to people who don't match. I've had friends who didn't match. It blows. It could happen to any of us, myself included. But, 1. If you're that worried about it, you should be on campus, in close proximity to an advisor, ready to get to work and not at "home in your pajamas" and 2. I wish it were as simple as "we pay them, therefore we deserve days off." Heck, I've missed weddings, family birthdays. I don't schedule doctors appointments when I know I'm on duty. And trust me, I know I'm not essential. They don't need me there. But until medical schools start allowing students to take "vacation days" we don't get to take days off. I wish we did. But that's life.

My overall point is that you don't need the whole day off to find out if you match. Sure, it would suck to have to be around people and talk to them immediately, but you're going to have to go to campus anyway. You're going to see your classmates. You're going to have to face your attendings. And it sucks, it makes you want to cry every time you see a new person, but it's life. And sometimes life sucks.

truth.
 
I never condoned lying about it. My whole point was that this should be accepted, provided the student says he needs the day off to find out if he matched. And I, for one, didn't say the poster doesn't owe anyone an explanation. I said he doesn't owe the strangers on this board an explanation.

Please don't feel like I was necessarily targeting you; I just happened to respond after your posts.

I don't think we're as far apart on this issue as it might seem. I think it's entirely reasonable for a school to mandate that students will be excused to learn of their match status and, if necessary, to begin the SOAP process. The onus should not be on the student to make his case to his service that he should be allowed time to learn this information and being SOAP, if necessary. In fact, reasonable is probably too weak of a description. Medical schools should mandate this. It's silly and stupid to risk a student's career because he "needed" to stay scrubbed in on a Whipple while SOAP started.

What I don't agree with is that this is some sort of mystical moment that should only be experienced alone or in the company of family, close friends, or a priest. People learn important information about their professional future everyday in this country, and there is no expectation that this requires "alone time" to digest the news. Nor is there any expectation of potentially avoiding embarrassment by rushing away. You're not going to be able to hide this.

And I'm not sure what not owing strangers an explanation has to do with it. While true, this is a message board. If someone weren't interested in others' thoughts, then they probably wouldn't have shared it.
 
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This is the dumbest thread I've ever read. Go out this weekend, grab a beer, and just relax.
 
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I'm amused by people who say 4th year is a joke... Last time I checked, we get to make our own schedules- so looks like you made it into a joke by taking nothing but anesthesia, radiology and "research".
....

Agreed. I certainly filled up my fourth year schedule with all the things I wanted to get better at before residency. Some of it ended up being valuable later. I know plenty of others who scheduled "bogus" electives in things they didn't care about and then had the nerve to say the year was a waste. That like sticking your head in the toilet and complaining that it tastes like crap.

That being said, I really don't think you need the day off to check an email for one second. The majority won't be soaping. And even if you do soap you are likely going to want to talk to your deans office, so you might as well be nearby and drop in rather than do it by phone.

But I also agree that lying about being sick is *****ic. Everyone knows you aren't sick. Just like they know you aren't really sick when you call in on the Friday before a long weekend. in general you've been at this game a lot shorter time than everyone more senior than you and all your higher ups are already quite jaded by the scads of med students who played game like this in prior years.
 
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The "job" I would otherwise be doing is sitting in the pathology sign-out room. Yep, I am totally needed there. I understand the obligations if you're on a sub-I or doing a surgery rotation where your hands may be needed in the OR to retract, but if you're doing a BS rotation like most of us are at this point in the year, I am all for taking Match Monday off. I guess it's your own fault if you schedule a time-intensive elective in March.

I actually think the guy who was worried that he'd be in the OR for an extended period of time and not be able to check email had a much more compelling argument for being off service than you, who will clearly have time to check the email while at work. IMHO, it's the guys who chose to be on BS rotations who have less of a reason to be hom in their PJs that day.
 
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I'm glad I'm a student in Ireland, because match Monday is St. Patrick's day and we get the day off, so no need to call in sick. In fact, it's more-or-less expected that I will be at the pub anyway when results come out!

Wait...it's St. Paddy's day too?

All other arguments are invalid! All students take the day off!!!!
 
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But I also agree that lying about being sick is *****ic. Everyone knows you aren't sick. Just like they know you aren't really sick when you call in on the Friday before a long weekend. in general you've been at this game a lot shorter time than everyone more senior than you and all your higher ups are already quite jaded by the scads of med students who played game like this in prior years.

Yeah good point, nobody has ever gotten sick on a Friday before. "Back in the day I walked uphill 4 miles in 3 feet of snow to make it into the hospital with diarrhea, vomiting, fever of 101. I'm such a badass"
 
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