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Drink, watch sports, read, hang out, etc.
Problem with that is...no good sports to watch during the summer.
Drink, watch sports, read, hang out, etc.
That's probably because he was awesome.
Those of us who are less awesome sometimes need a boost in the form of research =), especially if we come from a less-than-stellar med school.
Problem with that is...no good sports to watch during the summer.
Yeah, true.Problem with that is...no good sports to watch during the summer.
olympics?
Problem with that is...no good sports to watch during the summer.
Euro Cup, but its only like the second biggest sporting event in the world
I'll revisit this thread after Match Day but I could serve as a good anecdote for the importance of research. I had a strong Step 1 and AOA but no research during med school and my school is not well known (to the point where some interviwers said "Oh, I didn't know School X had a medical school").
Got a good number of interviews at very competitive places but to see if I actually match at one of them.
I think research is pretty awesome; I want to go into academic medicine, but I don't think it's something to do "just because" esp if you have no interest in academic medicine. He had 265+/AOA/top 10 etc but my point was simply that research isn't a prerequisite.
Olympics don't start till end of July and only last a couple of weeks. The worst sports time is post NBA finals pre football season. Baseball is ok but I don't get into it until the division/wild card races are cranked up. It's fun to go to an actual game though
Euro Cup, but its only like the second biggest sporting event in the world
Best time comes up in a few weeks. March Madness!!
This is America, we don't care about soccer.
My liver disagrees strongly and is cowering in fear. It knows the beating that lies ahead.The fact that Match Day is the day before St. Patrick's Day and on the first weekend of March Madness is simply incredible.
Currently an MS4 who applied to radiology. Haven't matched yet, but thank my lucky starts that I am ranked-to-match at a top 10 radiology program that I would be totally psyched to attend.
Things every med student should know:
1.) Step 1 for the med student is analogous to MCAT for the pre-med. Do what you need to do to rock it. It doesn't matter if you're going into family medicine or plastic surgery. Put your best foot forward and do well on it because you should want to leave all doors open. Even the best programs in less competitive fields are still extremely competitive in their own right. SDN has tons of resources for how to go about studying for this test. There is no reason you should do average on this exam provided you prepare in advance. If you're smart enough to get into medical school, there is no reason you shouldn't ace this test. I did an average job on my MCAT (low 30s), but I aced my step 1 (>250). You can do it!
2.) Med school prestige DOES matter.
For better or worse, being an MD will open more doors than being a DO. Going to a top 25 MD school will open even more doors. That's not to say if you go to a lesser-ranked school you'll close doors, but you'll just have to work harder to open them. As messed up as it may be, this is how things work seem to work.
3.) Put forth 150% during 3rd year.
-It will probably be one of the most difficult years of your life, but this is your time to prove that you can be a team player, get along with others and effectively care for patients. Doing well this year is absolutely essential if you want to go to a top program in your field.
4.) Research helps, but only if you are productive
Doing research in your field of interest is great, but any kind of research is helpful. However, it is only helpful if you show evidence of scholarly production (publications and presentations). Don't do research if you don't care for it. You can still get into a great residency program with out (unless you're going for derm, plastics, urology, rad-onc or ENT--then research is essential).
5.) Make time for yourself
Life will be busy, but you need to make time to take care of your self. I.e. having fun, working out, eating out, whatever. Fun might only come in small doses in less frequent intervals than you'd like, but enjoy whatever free time you have.
6.) Find a mentor.
Having a good mentor, especially in your field of interest, goes a long way. This is a person you can talk to, bounce ideas off of, do research with, and perhaps he/she will go to bat for you come time for residency application. I have an awesome mentor and wouldn't have achieved what I have without that person.
My liver disagrees strongly and is cowering in fear. It knows the beating that lies ahead.
Looking back, I wish I knew the amount of sacrifices medicine would take out of me. But you can't really get this until you go through 3rd/4th year. No way to understand this by shadowing. Would have helped if my parents were doctors.
If I knew back then what I know now, I would have chosen dentistry. Similar income with way better lifestyle. But too late for that.
As far as matching:
1. Wish I was smarter, and did better on Step 1. Most important aspect of application.
2. Wish I kissed ass more on 3rd year rotations to get those honors rather than HP or P.
3. If you want anything remotely competitive, do research.
That's all that matters. Most PD's don't give a crap about EC's.
Can anyone else speak more on the "always being watched" element? I've heard professors mention this here and there, but never any details. We're a P/F school, so I haven't been to worried about grades, but feel they are secretly being recorded and factored in. I'm wondering if I'm digging myself into a hole by not constantly volunteering for our free clinic and running some boring interest group. Not big on all the mission trips either. I just want to focus on boards and shadowing right now.
Can anyone else speak more on the "always being watched" element? I've heard professors mention this here and there, but never any details. We're a P/F school, so I haven't been to worried about grades, but feel they are secretly being recorded and factored in. I'm wondering if I'm digging myself into a hole by not constantly volunteering for our free clinic and running some boring interest group. Not big on all the mission trips either. I just want to focus on boards and shadowing right now.
In residency, but here's my take
1) Step 1 is important - Do as well as you can, and better than that if you're lucky.
a) Below average score will not rule you out
b) Above average score will not rule you in
2) Who you know means a lot - Friends in high places can make the difference
3) Play the game - You hate Peds? Psych OB? Surgery? So does most of your class aside from the people going in to that. Don't let anyone know. Until you go somewhere on a subinternship you are either "keeping your options open" or "strongly considering -name current rotation-" Laugh at their dumb jokes, mime their personalities. Nothing will ding you harder than a disgruntled resident or attending on a service you blow off. It's half about working well with others and half about showing some respect.
4) Research shows you show interest. Publish or perish, time spent without something meaningful for your CV is time wasted.
5) The med school you go to does play a role in selection
6) Step 2 CK/CS, Step 3.. Biggest waste of money that no one cares about
7) Have fun with it, it's your life!
Ugh. This has been the worst part of third year. Tends to occur more often with general surgery than any other specialty so far; nobody on IM has been rude to students interested in surgery so far; neither have people in psych been rude to students interested in peds.
Honestly, on everything but general surgery, I've found the trick is that you can usually be honest about what you want to do but show lots of enthusiasm in the field you're rotating in. For general surgery, you have to be either very ambiguous about the field you want to go into or pretend you want to go into gen surg.
Why would you ever tell anyone your interest in another field during a rotation? Either tell them its their field (if its true) or just lie and say you've not decided. People can and will judge you based on their own biases and preconceptions. Why risk ruining your chances at honors by running your mouth about crap that can't help you (if you don't like their field) and definitely can hurt you?
Try this-
Psych Attending: So do you want to go into psychiatry?
You: To be honest, I haven't really decided yet sir/mame, but I really like dealing with crazies all day and....etc.
Exaggeration, but you get the point.
Why would you ever tell anyone your interest in another field during a rotation? Either tell them its their field (if its true) or just lie and say you've not decided. People can and will judge you based on their own biases and preconceptions. Why risk ruining your chances at honors by running your mouth about crap that can't help you (if you don't like their field) and definitely can hurt you?
Try this-
Psych Attending: So do you want to go into psychiatry?
You: To be honest, I haven't really decided yet sir/mame, but I really like dealing with crazies all day and....etc.
Exaggeration, but you get the point.
Ugh. This has been the worst part of third year. Tends to occur more often with general surgery than any other specialty so far; nobody on IM has been rude to students interested in surgery so far; neither have people in psych been rude to students interested in peds.
Honestly, on everything but general surgery, I've found the trick is that you can usually be honest about what you want to do but show lots of enthusiasm in the field you're rotating in. For general surgery, you have to be either very ambiguous about the field you want to go into or pretend you want to go into gen surg.
I was always completely honest about what I wanted to do when rotating in pediatrics, family medicine, medicine, and so far, psychiatry, and it hasn't gotten me in hot water in the very least (and honors in almost all of them with top clinical grades in all of them). Hell I was even honest about the SUBSPECIALTY i wanted to pursue. I would always suffix it with "I still believe it's important for me regardless of whatever field I go into to have a thoroughly well rounded education so that I can recognize these things in my clinical practice" and as long as I worked hard and showed interest, I would do invariably well.
The only time (and this seems to be a fairly common experience) that I've EVER gotten dinged for it was on general surgery, when the evaluator said "oh well you don't want to go into gen surgery, so it's not like an honors in this will matter, right?" Thankfully I still managed to make honors in that rotation, but it was the lowest clinical grades I've ever gotten - and it had nothing to do with how good I was as a student, by the very admission of the person grading me.
So, really, no, it hasn't gotten me in any real trouble, and the one time it did, I still managed to crawl out of that hellhole with honors. Maybe you're more comfortable with lying through your teeth but I'm not. And maybe I will have to do it on OB/Gyn when I'm around similar personality types as those on surgery, but I'll hate every second of having to lie about it and effectively prostitute myself just to get a good grade.
Because some people don't like to lie or kiss ass just for a grade.
After I settled on rads it didn't hurt me when I mentioned I wanted to do it.
You freely admitted that being truthful hurt you on surgery. I commend you for working hard and fighting for those honors, but would it be false to say your goal would have been much easier to achieve if you hadn't shared personal information with your evaluator? I make this assumption based on your assertion you will not be so truthful on your OB/Gyn rotation. Not that I blame you, because you can't know up front whether being honest with your attending/resident will end up crucifying you or not. Again, there is NO reason to risk making your life harder by being honest with another practitioner about your chosen field. Like I said before, it cannot help you.
I apologize for this misunderstanding. I wasn't implying you should kiss ass. As I mentioned in that example, it was a mildly satirical exaggeration of the conversation in question. If you don't feel comfortable lying, don't say you like taking care of crazies/kids/inmates (or w/e based on your current rotation). Just don't say you hate it or would prefer doing something else. You must realize that medical education is a game, one that you must at least know the basics of to do well in this system. You don't have to be a pro, but if you don't play the game you will get destroyed by others that do.
I was always completely honest about what I wanted to do when rotating in pediatrics, family medicine, medicine, and so far, psychiatry, and it hasn't gotten me in hot water in the very least (and honors in almost all of them with top clinical grades in all of them). Hell I was even honest about the SUBSPECIALTY i wanted to pursue. I would always suffix it with "I still believe it's important for me regardless of whatever field I go into to have a thoroughly well rounded education so that I can recognize these things in my clinical practice" and as long as I worked hard and showed interest, I would do invariably well.
The only time (and this seems to be a fairly common experience) that I've EVER gotten dinged for it was on general surgery, when the evaluator said "oh well you don't want to go into gen surgery, so it's not like an honors in this will matter, right?" Thankfully I still managed to make honors in that rotation, but it was the lowest clinical grades I've ever gotten - and it had nothing to do with how good I was as a student, by the very admission of the person grading me.
So, really, no, it hasn't gotten me in any real trouble, and the one time it did, I still managed to crawl out of that hellhole with honors. Maybe you're more comfortable with lying through your teeth but I'm not. And maybe I will have to do it on OB/Gyn when I'm around similar personality types as those on surgery, but I'll hate every second of having to lie about it and effectively prostitute myself just to get a good grade.
Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?
You freely admitted that being truthful hurt you on surgery. I commend you for working hard and fighting for those honors, but would it be false to say your goal would have been much easier to achieve if you hadn't shared personal information with your evaluator? I make this assumption based on your assertion you will not be so truthful on your OB/Gyn rotation. Not that I blame you, because you can't know up front whether being honest with your attending/resident will end up crucifying you or not. Again, there is NO reason to risk making your life harder by being honest with another practitioner about your chosen field. Like I said before, it cannot help you.
I apologize for this misunderstanding. I wasn't implying you should kiss ass. As I mentioned in that example, it was a mildly satirical exaggeration of the conversation in question. If you don't feel comfortable lying, don't say you like taking care of crazies/kids/inmates (or w/e based on your current rotation). Just don't say you hate it or would prefer doing something else. You must realize that medical education is a game, one that you must at least know the basics of to do well in this system. You don't have to be a pro, but if you don't play the game you will get destroyed by others that do.
My advice stands. Just because surgeons are more aggressive/forward and tell you they think you're a ***** for wanting to do something else and the medicine docs seem okay with it does not mean you won't get dinged by both. Non surgical fields tend to be more passive aggressive. Do the smart thing, lie through your teeth and tell each field you want to go in to that field. Certainly, you may feel sleazy, but in reality if you consider each rotation as an audition for that field it helps.
You're making some very big assumptions - I never told the general surgeons I HATED the rotation. I really tried my best to like the rotation. Hell, there were parts of it I actually did enjoy, especially the endocrine/breast surgeries. I just said I was more interested in pursuing another specialty and that I still wanted to work hard and learn - and evidently that wasn't enough. The only reason I'm gonna have to be ambivalent/ambiguous about my choice for specialty for OB is because I know it will hurt me to say otherwise and that, yes, I've learned that it's not a great idea to be so forthright. Doesn't mean I have to like it or feel good about it.
I must have gotten lucky then with all of my pediatrics, family medicine, psych, and neurology attendings so far then, because my evals in all of them were good despite my honesty. I don't know, maybe your experience was different regarding your IM attendings when you were in medical school, but I've never had any issues with anyone being particularly passive-aggressive.
I think we can all agree that all these ridiculous attitudes towards other rotations is ridiculous anyway. Everyone has a place of their own and every specialty has a good purpose; it's okay to poke fun at times but to berate and downgrade other students for not being gung ho about your specialty seems unnecessarily vindictive.
Because some people don't like to lie or kiss ass just for a grade.
After I settled on rads it didn't hurt me when I mentioned I wanted to do it.
I'm with you, my friend. My evals were all excellent, despite the fact that I was honest about my career plans. It's just pathetic and sad when students try to suck up by lying to or concealing their interests from faculty.I must have gotten lucky then with all of my pediatrics, family medicine, psych, and neurology attendings so far then, because my evals in all of them were good despite my honesty. I don't know, maybe your experience was different regarding your IM attendings when you were in medical school, but I've never had any issues with anyone being particularly passive-aggressive.
I think we can all agree that all these ridiculous attitudes towards other rotations is ridiculous anyway. Everyone has a place of their own and every specialty has a good purpose; it's okay to poke fun at times but to berate and downgrade other students for not being gung ho about your specialty seems unnecessarily vindictive.
True, but this is one time when I strongly advocate dignity over playing the game. A grade isn't going to hurt you much, but being a sycophantic douche might. Who wants approval from someone that shallow, anyway?still getting a B for something so trivial is infuriating
Just cause it didn't hurt you, doesn't it mean it doesn't happen. On my psych rotation, the PD, who does our evals said I was one of the best students who rotated through his department, asked what I was considering I said, \
Me: "well i really enjoyed my month on psych, haven't ruled anything out yet, but I'm really considering Ortho" (he is best friends with the ortho PD so figured he'd put in a good word).
He said, "well, I only give students A's if they work hard AND want to go into psych, since you don't, here is an 88."
Me:
So ya, play the game. In the end, I still went ortho, matched, ect, but still getting a B for something so trivial is infuriating.
I'm with you, my friend. My evals were all excellent, despite the fact that I was honest about my career plans. It's just pathetic and sad when students try to suck up by lying to or concealing their interests from faculty.
True, but this is one time when I strongly advocate dignity over playing the game. A grade isn't going to hurt you much, but being a sycophantic douche might. Who wants approval from someone that shallow, anyway?
There's a rather large difference between keeping information confidential and just outright lying in an attempt to protect your grade. I'm sorry you don't like being told that you make yourself look awful to your peers by trying to protect your grade from this phantom menace. Unfortunately for you, that's the bed you've made by telling every doctor you come across that you want to pursue his specialty. Unnecessary risks? You're being a real person. If you're disrespected or graded down for that, so what? It's doubtful that a B/high pass/whatever in a specialty you don't care about is going to matter.To call a student pathetic and sad (or even a sycophantic douche? or am I reading to much into your post?) for trying to keep their own personal information confidential is ignorant and inflammatory.
I think this issue is being inflated significantly in this thread. As far as I'm aware, nobody at my school has ever had an issue with getting docked on his grades due to specialty choice. On the other hand, plenty of students have earned negative reputations (amongst attendings, residents, and other students) as a result of trying to suck up to people in each specialty. I don't doubt that there are old-school attendings around who will cut you down for not going into their specialty, but they don't practice at UAMS. Grades during third year obviously matter, but they don't matter enough to prostrate yourself to some jackass who thinks that only people interested in his specialty can do solid work in it. That's more where my problem lies: the type of person who'd actually lower your grade for your specialty choice is exactly the type who least deserves your deference and (perceived) respect. You're basically lowering yourself to his level, and for me, that's inexcusable and completely unacceptable.Maybe because one grade can, has and WILL continue to make a difference in the long run if you have decided to be honest and forthcoming to the wrong evaluator on the wrong rotation.
Just cause it didn't hurt you, doesn't it mean it doesn't happen. On my psych rotation, the PD, who does our evals said I was one of the best students who rotated through his department, asked what I was considering I said, \
Me: "well i really enjoyed my month on psych, haven't ruled anything out yet, but I'm really considering Ortho" (he is best friends with the ortho PD so figured he'd put in a good word).
He said, "well, I only give students A's if they work hard AND want to go into psych, since you don't, here is an 88."
Me:
So ya, play the game. In the end, I still went ortho, matched, ect, but still getting a B for something so trivial is infuriating.
There's a rather large difference between keeping information confidential and just outright lying in an attempt to protect your grade. I'm sorry you don't like being told that you make yourself look awful to your peers by trying to protect your grade from this phantom menace. Unfortunately for you, that's the bed you've made by telling every doctor you come across that you want to pursue his specialty. Unnecessary risks? You're being a real person. If you're disrespected or graded down for that, so what? It's doubtful that a B/high pass/whatever in a specialty you don't care about is going to matter.
I think this issue is being inflated significantly in this thread. As far as I'm aware, nobody at my school has ever had an issue with getting docked on his grades due to specialty choice. On the other hand, plenty of students have earned negative reputations (amongst attendings, residents, and other students) as a result of trying to suck up to people in each specialty. I don't doubt that there are old-school attendings around who will cut you down for not going into their specialty, but they don't practice at UAMS. Grades during third year obviously matter, but they don't matter enough to prostrate yourself to some jackass who thinks that only people interested in his specialty can do solid work in it. That's more where my problem lies: the type of person who'd actually lower your grade for your specialty choice is exactly the type who least deserves your deference and (perceived) respect. You're basically lowering yourself to his level, and for me, that's inexcusable and completely unacceptable.
I understand you just fine, thanks. My opinion that concealing your interests for a grade (when it probably doesn't matter anyway) is a crappy thing to do stands.Your experiences and biases seem to be clouding your comprehension of my points and opinions.
How about if they appreciate you for being honest and working hard despite not being interested in their specialty? That was mentioned in at least 2 of my evals. How about if the team gives you patients more relevant to the specialty you're interested in? What if the attendings and residents sit down and teach you topics relevant to your chosen specialty? On the contrary, I think you can help yourself out substantially by treating attendings like people and by being one, yourself.Telling them the truth can only hurt you. It will never help you.
Sarcasm noted, but it is, indeed, painful.I apologize if you have painfully endured experiences of your fellow classmates
I understand you just fine, thanks. My opinion that concealing your interests for a grade (when it probably doesn't matter anyway) is a crappy thing to do stands.
There's a rather large difference between keeping information confidential and just outright lying in an attempt to protect your grade.Unfortunately for you, that's the bed you've made by telling every doctor you come across that you want to pursue his specialty.
How about if they appreciate you for being honest and working hard despite not being interested in their specialty? That was mentioned in at least 2 of my evals. How about if the team gives you patients more relevant to the specialty you're interested in? What if the attendings and residents sit down and teach you topics relevant to your chosen specialty? On the contrary, I think you can help yourself out substantially by treating attendings like people and by being one, yourself.
Some of these people also have wealth and income that come from things outside of practicing medicine.I thought residency prestige actually correlated slightly negatively with future income. Not only do more of their residents go into low paying jobs in academics, but they tend to work in more saturated markets in desirable locations.
In residency, but here's my take
1) Step 1 is important - Do as well as you can, and better than that if you're lucky.
a) Below average score will not rule you out
b) Above average score will not rule you in
2) Who you know means a lot - Friends in high places can make the difference
3) Play the game - You hate Peds? Psych OB? Surgery? So does most of your class aside from the people going in to that. Don't let anyone know. Until you go somewhere on a subinternship you are either "keeping your options open" or "strongly considering -name current rotation-" Laugh at their dumb jokes, mime their personalities. Nothing will ding you harder than a disgruntled resident or attending on a service you blow off. It's half about working well with others and half about showing some respect.
4) Research shows you show interest. Publish or perish, time spent without something meaningful for your CV is time wasted.
5) The med school you go to does play a role in selection
6) Step 2 CK/CS, Step 3.. Biggest waste of money that no one cares about
7) Have fun with it, it's your life!
I love this post and here's why... had I trusted the advice of the "experts" on SDN, I would have been convinced that my chances of getting in to medical school and being successful were slim to none. As a non-traditional student, I had less than stellar grades from some UG classes very early in life and knew that it would be a challenge to improve my GPA. Indeed, it was... but I did not get all A's as it was suggested would be necessary. My MCAT was just a hair above average and yet I got in to medical not once, but twice. I was accepted in 2007 but decided not to go at that time. I finished a Master's and reapplied at a later date without retaking the MCAT. And now, as an MS2, although there have been subjects with which I struggled, I have not failed any nor had to re-mediate. Likewise, my CBSE scores, while not even close to predicting a 260 like a few of our top students, are nonetheless higher than several of my younger and presumably more intelligent classmates.
I recognize my limitations and while I will put forth my best effort on Step 1, I refuse to allow the naysayers to convince me that a "low" (call it <240) score will mean a career in my chosen specialty (whatever that might be) is out of the question. Perhaps I might have a harder time getting what I want, maybe I would have to be in a less desirable (whatever that is) program, or to have to apply more broadly... but it is no means an impossibility. Don't believe me? Take a look at the match statistics... http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf
Since we keep talking about Derm, let me draw your attention to page 36. Now, when you look at the those applicants with a 201-210, you'll see that nearly 50% matched, and this figure went up slightly with scores of 211-220. While I'd admit those aren't great odds, they are far better than zero. And that's not all... if you look at the others specialties mentioned (anesthesiology, EM, Rads - not Oc Rads) you'll see that 85-95% of those scoring at 220 and below matched.
My point is this... if you read these posts and think "Well, I'm f***ed..." DON'T!! We all know this test is important, so study hard. But at the end of the day, recognize that there are a handful of students who beat the odds. Your challenge is to figure out what separated the two groups if you happen to be stuck with a score on the lower end for your desired specialty.
Best of luck to all of you!
I love this post and here's why... had I trusted the advice of the "experts" on SDN, I would have been convinced that my chances of getting in to medical school and being successful were slim to none. As a non-traditional student, I had less than stellar grades from some UG classes very early in life and knew that it would be a challenge to improve my GPA. Indeed, it was... but I did not get all A's as it was suggested would be necessary. My MCAT was just a hair above average and yet I got in to medical not once, but twice. I was accepted in 2007 but decided not to go at that time. I finished a Master's and reapplied at a later date without retaking the MCAT. And now, as an MS2, although there have been subjects with which I struggled, I have not failed any nor had to re-mediate. Likewise, my CBSE scores, while not even close to predicting a 260 like a few of our top students, are nonetheless higher than several of my younger and presumably more intelligent classmates.
I recognize my limitations and while I will put forth my best effort on Step 1, I refuse to allow the naysayers to convince me that a "low" (call it <240) score will mean a career in my chosen specialty (whatever that might be) is out of the question. Perhaps I might have a harder time getting what I want, maybe I would have to be in a less desirable (whatever that is) program, or to have to apply more broadly... but it is no means an impossibility. Don't believe me? Take a look at the match statistics... http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf
Since we keep talking about Derm, let me draw your attention to page 36. Now, when you look at the those applicants with a 201-210, you'll see that nearly 50% matched, and this figure went up slightly with scores of 211-220. While I'd admit those aren't great odds, they are far better than zero. And that's not all... if you look at the others specialties mentioned (anesthesiology, EM, Rads - not Oc Rads) you'll see that 85-95% of those scoring at 220 and below matched.
My point is this... if you read these posts and think "Well, I'm f***ed..." DON'T!! We all know this test is important, so study hard. But at the end of the day, recognize that there are a handful of students who beat the odds. Your challenge is to figure out what separated the two groups if you happen to be stuck with a score on the lower end for your desired specialty.
Best of luck to all of you!