Minnesota vs. lllinois

[kas9ey]

So I'm in at Minnesota and Illinois and am having one heck of a time picking between them. They're both OOS for me, Illinois is about 10K cheaper, but Minnesota has their whole huge equine center going for them. I'd like to go the equine route. Anyone have any thoughts about which is better, or knows an expert SDN-er I could ask. Thanks guys!

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[twelvetigers]

See, a $10k total difference isn't really enough to sway me one way or the other based on cost. It's a factor, sure, but there's room to consider other things.

How do you feel about the new curriculum at Illinois? It's pretty unique, but still in its infancy at this point, so...

Also, do you like snow, or do you prefer SNOW!! ?

 

[kas9ey]

Hahaha the most contact I've had with snow is when I went to the schools to interview! I'm from Florida so I will be miserable from the weather either place I wind up lol.

Cost really isn't an issue like you said, but I figured someone would say something about tuition so I put it out there anyway.

I think the new curriculum is a pretty cool idea but I haven't really talked to anyone that's been through it since it's only a couple years old.

I'm really not a city girl, and Minneapolis-St.Paul is a pretty big city so I'm leaning toward the Illini, but UM does have the new Leatherdale Center. Not that one building should make a huge difference in my decision lol.

Thanks for the reply TwelveTigers!

 

[moosenanny]

I'd say to really scrutinize the curriculum of each school, including the examination style/schedule, and see what fits best into your already-established style of learning. I don't know anything about either curriculum, but for example, if one school has giant exams at the end of long block periods, while the other has constant exams (at least one per week), that makes a huge difference in day-to-day study strategies and habits. The different pressures and stresses could make a big difference in your attitude, i.e., some people prefer studying all the time and think one giant exam is overwhelmingly scary, while other people like to only study one or two times per semester and really buckle down when they need to . . . This is on my mind because this is one of the bigger changes that UC Davis is undergoing with its new curriculum change . . .

 

[teatime]

I also got accepted to Illinois and one of the huge upsides I see is the one midtem/one final exam schedule. Although it can definitely make it hard for procrastinators! (me... )

 

[natalieises]

They also give us quizzes every now and then to help keep you motivated to study throughout the course instead of cramming. I was a MAJOR procrastinator in undergrad, and I can say that I have changed my studying habits drastically. It is very important to keep up on your studying because there is just a TON of material. It is possible to cram, but there's just no way to study everything a few days before the exam.

I love the two major sets of exams though. I think having 4 tests a week would be rough. Also, if you mess up horribly in one subject you won't fail that class because it is one grade and one class for all 4 subjects.

 

[kas9ey]

Thanks guys! I'm that weirdo anti-procrastinator who gets everything done way early, so I really prefer the couple massive exams over testing all the time. That is a point in the column for Illinois!

 

[kas9ey]

Anybody from Minnesota out there in cyber world?

 

[TomTheK9Fixr]

Anybody from Minnesota out there in cyber world?

Hi, been a long time since I have been on here. Probably b/c there is not much on here pertinent to Minn, and the topics are becoming similar to my facebook news feed Anyways, regarding your question, I am an OOS and planning on SA track at Minn, but I'll offer what I know.

Positive Equine tidbits that I am aware of:
1. I can tell you that they have a fairly new equine center with micorlameness detectors along with other diagnostics typically found at universities (they have a very powerful MRI 2.5-3 tesla I think??).
2. One of the faculty members mapped the equine genome=very cool research opportunities.
3. Minn is VERY supportive of students that want to do research while in vet school. I know every university technically is too, but Minn really helps you out. This was a HUGE factor for me as I plan to specialize, and getting published is a HUGE step in that process.

Positive state/city tidbits:

1. Pretty sure Minn will NOT be effected by the anti-union stuff going on in other states. Why is this pertinent? Loss of union rights will ultimately effect university budgets (e.g., faculty payroll,, and so on). This LIKELY will lead to increased tuition fees. See Ohio State and Wisconsin. Ohio State is a perfect example of this 'trickle down effect'. BTW- Minn has a really high sales tax or other tax which leads to a more stable economic climate and forecast, though still sucks.

2. The campus is in St.Paul, where there is roughly 3,000 students. Not too many IMO. Yes, it's a large metro area but, you're 30 minutes farm country in either direction, from what I hear.

3. MSP was surprisingly trendy!

Hope this helps

 

[twelvetigers]

You may want to check out this stuff if you haven't yet:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10313662&postcount=226

 

[kas9ey]

Thanks! Yeah, I read up on all their research stuff and toured Leatherdale and the school. I scavenged all the class of 2015 threads too. I guess I'm just looking around for general attitudes of the students and the community and what not.

 

[LetItSnow]

Thanks! Yeah, I read up on all their research stuff and toured Leatherdale and the school. I scavenged all the class of 2015 threads too. I guess I'm just looking around for general attitudes of the students and the community and what not.

Do you have any specific questions about the area? I've lived here for about 35 years now.

I probably can't give you much useful commentary about the vet school itself. I'm starting there this fall, but for a variety of reasons I didn't even apply anywhere else, so I'm not going to be able to compare it to other schools. That said, I'm around the VMC at least once/week, so if you have questions about the environment I might be able to take a stab.

 

[kas9ey]

If you had to sum up the area in a few sentences what would you say? (Sounds like an interview question lol)

 

[LetItSnow]

If you had to sum up the area in a few sentences what would you say? (Sounds like an interview question lol)

Well, considering I was pretty sure I tanked my interview.......

I absolutely love it here. I think it's a great blend of metro/urban feel with rural/small town never very far away. Tom mentioned '30 minutes' to the countryside and that's not really an exaggeration. What parts of a city/environment are important to you?

For its size, I think the twin cities gets a fantastic amount of variety in food, music, and theater. My wife and I have been http://www.hennepintheatretrust.org season ticket purchasers for a few years (which, ahem, won't happen in vet school because of cost); the 6-7 shows we go to each year are our 'big' dates: a nice dinner with great theater. I think we rival cities quite a bit bigger for 'culture'. There are at least 3 awesome outdoor art shows/festivals every summer I can think of off the top of my head, which means there are probably a dozen more.
There's plenty of music, theater, art, food, etc.

Weather: You have to like variety and extremes. We get upper 90's to negative ridiculous, and you either love it or really, really hate it. Personally, I'm one of those people that gets energized the worse the weather gets. This is probably a make it or break it for a lot of people.

Campus: The St. Paul campus feels like a much smaller school than the overall UMN. I don't know how many students are there, but it reminds me more of my undergrad time at University of St. Thomas than it does the Minneapolis campus UMN. Maybe (given the weather and the probable lack of money/time we'll have as students) this isn't such a good thing? I don't know.

Public Transit: Excellent in/around the city/campus. Downside is that for getting out to the suburbs it closes down very early (6-7pm?). Notable exception: Mall of America, which has transit available until... midnight-ish. But getting between campus and downtown is easy.

Politics: Minneapolis is quite a bit more liberal than the surrounding areas (and generally speaking the university is pretty liberal, as you'd expect), but overall MN is a bizarre blend of liberal and conservative. I mean, consider the fact that we elected both Sen. Al Franken and Rep. Michele Bachmann.

About the only thing I personally don't care for is the relatively flat terrain. I lived very briefly in the shadow of Glacier Nat'l Park, as well as Rio de Janeiro, and discovered that I really love having hills/mountains around. MN isn't quite as bad as some of our southern and western neighboring states, which are not only flat, but lacking in foliage. (I'm looking at you, Iowa, South Dakota, and North Dakota.)

 

[kas9ey]

Excellent info! I like being out in the middle of nowhere so I need to decide if I can survive the frigid pseudo-concrete jungle hahaha. Do you know how the exam schedule is set up there? I know Illinois does the big midterm and final.

 

[squibby]

If anyone else wants to give input on Illinois, I am killing myself trying to decide between there and Ohio. I just want to hear a bit more about what its like to live in U/C, what y'all do when you want to relax other than go out to bars.
Should I start an Ohio v. Illinois thread?

 

[NatGeo83]

I'm also deciding between Illinois and OSU and I'm extremely torn. Any input from current students on how their experience is going, how they feel about their respective curriculums and what life is like in Urbana-Champaign or Columbus would be greatly appreciated!

 

[GreenMouse]

I just want to hear a bit more about what its like to live in U/C, what y'all do when you want to relax other than go out to bars.

Since I'm not a huge bar person - I think I can contribute to this one

Though C-U is kind of in the middle of nowhere, there's actually tons going on. There is loads to do all the way from farmer's markets to broadway plays. Also, St. Louis and Chicago are only about 2.5 hours away, so very very easy to make a weekend trip out of it. Bloomington is only about an hour and also has tons going on.

Due to the university being pretty large, we get some great shows. For the really big productions (ex: Cats is playing this month) go to the Assembly Hall: http://www.uofiassemblyhall.com/
That's also where the basketball games are. Also other events such as Monster truck rally

For more artsy shows (and most only $10 for students and spouse/dependents) make sure to go to Krannert: http://www.krannertcenter.com/
I've seen everything from great acrobatics to the St. Petersburg Philharmonic there. The university also has an art gallery, Japan house, and other art-specific venues.

And for the more trendy music scene check out these clubs:
http://www.canopyclub.com/canopy.php
http://thehighdive.com/

We also have 2 nice, smaller theaters (along with the megaplexes - Savoy 16 and the Beverly):
The Virginia: http://www.thevirginia.org/index2.html
Art Theater: http://www.thecuart.com/
Roger Ebert Film Festival (he is a UIUC grad and hosts this event): http://www.ebertfest.com/

Every Saturday morning, May through early November, there is a large farmer's market in Urbana: http://www.market-at-the-square.blogspot.com/

I go almost every weekend with my dog! There are art vendors, locally produced meat & poultry, veggies, berries, honey, fresh kettle corn, music, ice cream and so much more. Easily the favorite part of my weekend.

There are also lots of other farm-ish activities such as:
U-Pick Berries: http://pontiousfarm.com/
Curtis Orchard: http://www.curtisorchard.com/
Goat Cheese: http://www.prairiefruits.com/
Corn Maze and Reindeer Ranch: http://www.reindeerranch.com/

About 40 minutes away in Gibson City is a drive-in movie theater (dogs welcome): http://www.harvestmoondrivein.com/
While in Gibson City make sure to go to a *very* authentic German restaurant: http://www.bayernstube.com/

Also not too far is some good canoeing/kayaking/camping:
Kickapoo state park: http://dnr.state.il.us/lands/landmgt/parks/r3/kickapoo.htm
Kickapoo landing: http://www.kickapoolanding.com/
Turkey Run (in Indiana): http://www.turkeyrunstatepark.com/

And a bit further (~3 hours): http://www.shawneeforest.com/

Then there are more seasonal events such as the "Taste of Champaign", "Sweetcorn Festival", Champaign county fair (never thought I'd like demolition derby, but I love it) summer movies, concerts, and other events. Many put on by the two park districts:
http://www.champaignparkdistrict.com/
http://www.urbanaparks.org/
Note that both park districts also have dog parks.

Oh, and on the dog subject, there are also some nice training clubs - this one is the one I am most familiar with: http://dtccu.net/
They have obedience, rally, agility, tracking, and sometimes flyball/conformation/other special classes. It is a very active club with frequent events and *lots* of classes.

Anyway - tons more - but that's the major highlights I thought I'd go crazy in this town after living near Chicago, but honestly I more often than not get stressed out by having too much to do rather than too little. There is always something going on - you just need to know where to look.

 

[elliepants]

Anybody from Minnesota out there in cyber world?

Are there any specific questions that you have?

I love Minnesota and I can't imagine being anywhere else- I've heard that we're known as "the happy vet school".

 

[squibby]

GreenMouse, I can always count on you to contribute a butt-load of useful info. Thanks!

I'm concerned because I'm into outdoorsy stuff, not artsy stuff. It seems like the artsy stuff predominates that list.

What I need to do is just shut up and realize that at either Ohio or Illinois I'm not going to have recreation-wise what I have here in CA. I guess what I'm trying to do is figure out which one has the most to offer me.

 

[kas9ey]

Are there any specific questions that you have?

I love Minnesota and I can't imagine being anywhere else- I've heard that we're known as "the happy vet school".

What's the exam schedule like? And is it easy to find an out-doorsy kind of place in St.Paul? Like Squibby, I like being out in the woods. I did see that Kickapoo State Park is close by in Illinois so we can explore together Squibby if you go there haha!

Also, I don't want to speak badly about anyone, but my tour group girls scared me a bit when I was at Minnesota lol. One of them said, "I have to live close to school so I show up...it gets boring" and the other one was just about as excited as the first one. I know it gets tedious and the weather doesn't help but their attitudes were bizarre. Do you feel like that is the norm or did I catch them on an off day?

 

[elliepants]

What's the exam schedule like? And is it easy to find an out-doorsy kind of place in St.Paul? Like Squibby, I like being out in the woods. I did see that Kickapoo State Park is close by in Illinois so we can explore together Squibby if you go there haha!

Also, I don't want to speak badly about anyone, but my tour group girls scared me a bit when I was at Minnesota lol. One of them said, "I have to live close to school so I show up...it gets boring" and the other one was just about as excited as the first one. I know it gets tedious and the weather doesn't help but their attitudes were bizarre. Do you feel like that is the norm or did I catch them on an off day?

During first semester of first year, you'll rarely face more than one exam per week, and there's usually at least a week or two in between tests to give you a break. Second semester has been a bit of an adjustment- we have an exam every week (sometimes two)- but I don't think that this is unusual for vet schools (since there are so many classes).

There are a lot of state parks around- and the people who are outdoors-y frequent them. I'm an indoor girl, so I can only speak so much about this- but it's definitely available if you want it!

I can't speak for your tour guides- but they treat us very well at Minnesota. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Let me know if you have any more questions!

 

[GreenMouse]

I'm concerned because I'm into outdoorsy stuff, not artsy stuff. It seems like the artsy stuff predominates that list.

Is there a specific outdoor activity you are looking for? It's absolutely true that central Illinois won't have the variety that CA does, which is a little sad. However, we have a little bit - and more if you are willing to drive.

I know a 3rd year who does *a lot* of rock climbing. I can ask her where she goes - but I'm guessing a lot is in Shawnee (3 hrs away). There are also indoor climbing walls around (including one that is free on campus), but those aren't as fun Most of Illinois was flattened by glaciers, but they didn't reach the area of Shawnee National Forest. Due to this, there are many rock formations and other interesting hiking areas there.

I'm an outdoorsie person and yes - this area is a little lacking. There are plenty of parks to walk around in, but not much super serious hiking very close by. However if I am willing to drive 3-5 hours, I can find a lot. Wisconsin (Devil's Lake quickly comes to mind) has some really great stuff as does Southern Illinois.

If you are looking for fishing, there are quite a few lakes nearby (Kaufman, Homer, and others). The UIUC fishing club would be a good resource for this. List of all UIUC RSOs (Registered Student Organizations): http://illinois.collegiatelink.net/organizations?SearchType=None&CurrentPage=1

Also, the university has an outdoors rec group that organizes trips and does some classes: http://www.campusrec.illinois.edu/adventure/

They also rent camping equipment on the cheap which is really nice.

Anyway - let me know if there is something specific that you are looking for, but overall yes, there is stuff to do outdoors, but no, it isn't as awesome as California

 

[light10]

What's the exam schedule like? And is it easy to find an out-doorsy kind of place in St.Paul? Like Squibby, I like being out in the woods. I did see that Kickapoo State Park is close by in Illinois so we can explore together Squibby if you go there haha!

Minnesota is FULL of outdoorsy people. There are even people biking to work in January . It was while I lived in Minnesota that I discovered I was an outdoors person! In the city, you have a bunch of lakes, each with a path around it, and some with a park around it - you'll have tons of people running, walking, biking, rollerblading, kayaking, canoeing, even sailing on the bigger Minneapolis lakes. Lake Como is probably the closest to the vet school area, and then Calhoun and Harriet in Minneapolis. Cross country skiing is popular in the winter, and city parks will have groomed trails. And of course ice hockey is crazy popular. Within an hour of the campus, there's a even more lakes (gosh, there must be 10,000 lakes in this state! haha), some state parks/waterfalls with hiking, and even some downhill skiing (midwest style ). And up north (3-5 hrs), there are some nationally known wilderness areas - boundary waters canoe area, the superior hiking trail, voyageurs and isle royale national parks. I've lived in Colorado for the last 5 years, but some places in Minn are still on my most beautiful places I've ever seen list. Also, everyone in Minnesota has a cabin on a lake somewhere - water sports (water skiiing, boating, fishing, ice fishing, snowmobiling) are popular, as is just getting out of the city for the weekend.

LetitSnow gave what I think is a pretty accurate description of the area as a whole. I'd just add that, as an adamant 'I hate cities' person, I actually really liked the twin cities. They're neighborhood-centric, so they feel a lot smaller than they are.

I'm also not a current vet student, so take this with a grain of salt. I have, however, known people at the U of Mn from the class of 2004 to the class of 2014, and I also worked there for 2 years. Most all of them have been pretty happy during and after their vet school years. I'd say the biggest asset is the people. The classes tend to be very collaborative, not at all competitive with each other, and the students very friendly. And even at the hospital level, when I was visiting some Equine dr.s I knew they were saying that the current equine crew all got along really well and enjoyed working together. And, of course, being in a major population center really increases the small animal and equine caseloads.

Although, full disclosure, I have pretty much decided to turn down my offer to UMn. While I really like a lot about it, I decided its curriculum/educational offerings weren't different enough from my IS to justify the tuition increase.

 

[kas9ey]

Man-o-man, the more I hear the harder my decision is becoming!

Someone on another thread asked about how helpful the schools are with hooking up externships, anyone have any insight into that one? OK I'll stop asking questions now

 

[catnips]

Don't hate me for bumping this thread. Everything seems to have been said already, but if anyone has any *newer* contributions, I would be grateful. I am interested in small animal med.

I am absolutely torn. And since they called me off of waitlists, I don't have much time to decide.

 

[LetItSnow]

Don't hate me for bumping this thread. Everything seems to have been said already, but if anyone has any *newer* contributions, I would be grateful. I am interested in small animal med.

I am absolutely torn. And since they called me off of waitlists, I don't have much time to decide.

It might be easier if you have specific questions in order to develop your own pro/con list. I can't tell you anything about Illinois, and none of those students could tell you ant UMN. We definitely have a busier small animal hospital, but that's not really relevant until 4th year. And I'm not sure it's as important as some people think.

 

[catnips]

It might be easier if you have specific questions in order to develop your own pro/con list. I can't tell you anything about Illinois, and none of those students could tell you ant UMN. We definitely have a busier small animal hospital, but that's not really relevant until 4th year. And I'm not sure it's as important as some people think.

I think what impressed me about UIUC most is that they start clinics right away in first year. So, in comparison, how much hands-on experience do you get at UMN or when do you start getting hands-on experiences? Do you get to do anything at that awesome hospital you guys have before 4th year or is cool surgeries and stuff like that more reserved for 4th year/residents etc. (UMN hospital was so impressive.) Unfortunately, all my vet shadowing experiences were just that -shadowing and cleaning. So I feel like I am very behind on getting hands-on experience like a tech might have. Trying to see if I can make up for that at vet school.

Also, what is the tuition cost like for the summer of 4th year? I am seeing that UIUC doesn't charge tuition for that summer but UMN does so I'm trying to see if that would make a difference in my loans. Otherwise, OOS tuition is very close to each other that it doesn't sway me in either way...

Last thing - I don't do well in competitive/stressful environments. And I read above that at UMN, people are very collaborative. Does that go for every class? I mean, obviously you can't really tell what's gonna happen with people but I guess every college might have a certain culture...

Thanks! This is a very hard decision and I thought I would be lucky to get in at one school...

 

[KCgophervet]

I think what impressed me about UIUC most is that they start clinics right away in first year. So, in comparison, how much hands-on experience do you get at UMN or when do you start getting hands-on experiences? Do you get to do anything at that awesome hospital you guys have before 4th year or is cool surgeries and stuff like that more reserved for 4th year/residents etc. (UMN hospital was so impressive.) Unfortunately, all my vet shadowing experiences were just that -shadowing and cleaning. So I feel like I am very behind on getting hands-on experience like a tech might have. Trying to see if I can make up for that at vet school.

As far as this goes - they are trying to make the earlier years more hands on with the new curriculum. Adding a lot of physical exam labs for the clinical skills classes and adding small animal clerk duty (on top of the historical large animal clerk duty) earlier in the year. (What is clerk duty you ask? Going in to either the small or large animal hospital on evenings/weekends and assisting the techs with treatments etc. Mandatory 1x/semester).

Still, not the greatest. The best luck you have getting a lot more hands on stuff is to join clubs or extracurricular groups like SIRVS (student initiative for reservation vet services?? like RAVS) or VeTouch (@LetItSnow knows more about these, I just joined SIRVS this year - that being said I also got to monitor anesthesia, do full PE's, draw blood, give injections, and do half a cat neuter through 1 event with SIRVS so definitely worth it). But the clubs are really good about getting wet lab experiences for us (depending on the club of course).

I've also found a lot more opportunities to work in vet med as a vet student. It was funny/sad to me when I had so much trouble finding experiences before vet school, now that I'm a vet student there's seemingly always emails coming in from local clinics looking to hire part time or summer vet students.

Also, what is the tuition cost like for the summer of 4th year? I am seeing that UIUC doesn't charge tuition for that summer but UMN does so I'm trying to see if that would make a difference in my loans. Otherwise, OOS tuition is very close to each other that it doesn't sway me in either way...

Again, LIS will know this one more. I haven't experienced that magical 4th year summer tuition stab yet.

Last thing - I don't do well in competitive/stressful environments. And I read above that at UMN, people are very collaborative. Does that go for every class? I mean, obviously you can't really tell what's gonna happen with people but I guess every college might have a certain culture...

Thanks! This is a very hard decision and I thought I would be lucky to get in at one school...

Crazy collaborative. I mean of course it will depend on the year, but our class has a FB page where before every exam we start a comment thread called "Stupid ways to remember stuff for X exam" and then people post their study hints or acronyms or whatever. And then later you get to a test question that someone came up with something for and its wonderful. Also we had a student in the class year above us go beyond the call of duty and set up study sessions and helpful reviews for some of the more difficult classes. Finally, us 2nd years just got information about tracking for 4th year and setting up rotations. I was feeling a bit lost and on a whim Facebook messaged a current 4th year and a current 3rd year (who I sort of know but are going into the same field I hope to - Lab Animal), and got same day essay long responses about good choices, helpful advice, less than useful electives, etc and wishing me good luck and an open invitation for more questions.

That all being said, I don't know that it's not the same at Illinois. And I don't know that it's the same with every person in every class. But hey I'll still be around for help until 2017

 

[catnips]

As far as this goes - they are trying to make the earlier years more hands on with the new curriculum. Adding a lot of physical exam labs for the clinical skills classes and adding small animal clerk duty (on top of the historical large animal clerk duty) earlier in the year. (What is clerk duty you ask? Going in to either the small or large animal hospital on evenings/weekends and assisting the techs with treatments etc. Mandatory 1x/semester).

Still, not the greatest. The best luck you have getting a lot more hands on stuff is to join clubs or extracurricular groups like SIRVS (student initiative for reservation vet services?? like RAVS) or VeTouch (@LetItSnow knows more about these, I just joined SIRVS this year - that being said I also got to monitor anesthesia, do full PE's, draw blood, give injections, and do half a cat neuter through 1 event with SIRVS so definitely worth it). But the clubs are really good about getting wet lab experiences for us (depending on the club of course).

I've also found a lot more opportunities to work in vet med as a vet student. It was funny/sad to me when I had so much trouble finding experiences before vet school, now that I'm a vet student there's seemingly always emails coming in from local clinics looking to hire part time or summer vet students.

Again, LIS will know this one more. I haven't experienced that magical 4th year summer tuition stab yet.



Crazy collaborative. I mean of course it will depend on the year, but our class has a FB page where before every exam we start a comment thread called "Stupid ways to remember stuff for X exam" and then people post their study hints or acronyms or whatever. And then later you get to a test question that someone came up with something for and its wonderful. Also we had a student in the class year above us go beyond the call of duty and set up study sessions and helpful reviews for some of the more difficult classes. Finally, us 2nd years just got information about tracking for 4th year and setting up rotations. I was feeling a bit lost and on a whim Facebook messaged a current 4th year and a current 3rd year (who I sort of know but are going into the same field I hope to - Lab Animal), and got same day essay long responses about good choices, helpful advice, less than useful electives, etc and wishing me good luck and an open invitation for more questions.

That all being said, I don't know that it's not the same at Illinois. And I don't know that it's the same with every person in every class. But hey I'll still be around for help until 2017

Thank you so much @kcoughli ! I had such a good feeling at Minnesota (until I thought I bombed my interview that is) and it really is an amazing school. SIRVS sounds great! Vet school seems to be what you make of it so I'm hoping to get hands on experience during summers etc. too.

Should I even worry about the rankings? Supposedly Minnesota is at #9 and Illinois at #19 but I read to ignore that. Would've been an easy way to choose tho

Twin Cities seemed great too. Like a place I could see myself living in with no problem after NYC. But then I look at cost of living in Urbana-Champaign and there's a huge difference.

 

[LetItSnow]

I think what impressed me about UIUC most is that they start clinics right away in first year. So, in comparison, how much hands-on experience do you get at UMN or when do you start getting hands-on experiences? Do you get to do anything at that awesome hospital you guys have before 4th year or is cool surgeries and stuff like that more reserved for 4th year/residents etc. (UMN hospital was so impressive.) Unfortunately, all my vet shadowing experiences were just that -shadowing and cleaning. So I feel like I am very behind on getting hands-on experience like a tech might have. Trying to see if I can make up for that at vet school.

Also, what is the tuition cost like for the summer of 4th year? I am seeing that UIUC doesn't charge tuition for that summer but UMN does so I'm trying to see if that would make a difference in my loans. Otherwise, OOS tuition is very close to each other that it doesn't sway me in either way...

Last thing - I don't do well in competitive/stressful environments. And I read above that at UMN, people are very collaborative. Does that go for every class? I mean, obviously you can't really tell what's gonna happen with people but I guess every college might have a certain culture...

Thanks! This is a very hard decision and I thought I would be lucky to get in at one school...

Apologies for length.

I'm hesitant to talk about hands-on experience at UMN because I was part of one curriculum and @kcoughli is part of another; I feel like on one hand she's a better person to ask. On the flip side, I'm two weeks from being done so I've seen the entire process. But I'll do my best; just take me with a grain of salt, yanno?

Experience:
You won't get anything like real full-on clinics until fourth year. You'll spend plenty of time in labs (MUCH better than when I went through - I've been super impressed with our first- and second-year students; as a group they are way ahead of where the third-year and current fourth-year classes were at those points), and you'll get plenty of "how to PE animal X" type of stuff. You'll spend occasional afternoons sorta shadowing in the clinics; we call them "mini rotations". I think they're 3 hours? But you get through many of the services in the hospital. You won't have primary case responsibility until fourth year other than for something like your surgery class.

There are a few other ways to get great experience, though. First, there are many hospital jobs. I took a job in the blood donor program year 1, which is wonderful experience for someone with no clinical experience, since it requires a jug stick for cross-matching blood, a saph catheter to return fluids (we put 1L of LRS back in in exchange for the 500ml blood we draw), and then another jug stick for the 500ml draw. Two jug sticks and a cath for every draw. If you were a tech, that's laughably silly. If you were me, it was great experience. Then, I took a job as an ICU student tech somewhere around year 2. That's the type of job where you can get as much or as little experience as you want. If you apply yourself, you'll function pretty much as a regular tech. If you want to just show up, clean cages, take dogs outside, you'll end up doing that. But that's true throughout vet school - apply yourself and you'll learn more.

The next way to get experience is clubs. Several clubs have 'wet lab' type of opportunities (Dentistry, Surgery, ECC, etc.). One club - VeTouch - puts on a local mostly-wellness clinic every month. If you come to that, you'll greet clients, do the exam, do any diagnostics you recommend, and make treatment recommendations. You have almost entire freedom to manage the patient; we just have students run their diagnostic/treatment plan by a vet before initiating it. It's *excellent* for building client communication and physical exam skills. It's pretty ... simple ... stuff, you'll generally examine, do a hw test if indicated, administer vaccines, talk to the owner about food or other low-cost things they can do, etc. We treat a lot of skin issues because those are easay to treat month-to-month. Another club - SIRVS - is a sister club that is modeled strongly off of RAVS (google for more info). RAVS used to be in MN but pulled out, so UMN students stepped up and created a lookalike club to do the same thing. They go to reservations and provide wellness and surgical sterilization.... probably... eh... kcoughli may have to correct me, but I suppose about 3-4 times/year? SIRVS does all the same wellness VeTouch does, but also adds in surgery. So you'll get anesthesia experience (cath placement, induction, intubation, monitoring, and recovery) as well as surgical experience. We let first years jump right in on anesthesia and surgery, though obviously the degree to which you have autonomy is based on assessment of your capabilities. You won't likely do a spay start to finish as a first year because you won't have the skill (probably - there are people who do), and we try to limit the time on table. But by third year - if you consistently look for opportunities - you'll be rocking out the spay with a vet standing across the table not doing anything but watching you to make sure it stays safe.

I will tell you this: I did every single VeTouch clinic and SIRVS trip until I hit fourth year. Maybe one or two other people were that involved. Partly it's because I believe strongly in community service, and partly it's because I believe(d) I needed that skill development. It was WELL WORTH IT on many levels. I gained clinical skill, communication skill, surgical skill... I got to know some professors extremely well, to the point that it has positively impacted my post-graduation job hunt and whatnot.

Tuition:
Easily MN's weakest point next to the weather. MN is stupid expensive, and up until one year ago the lack of action on it was very, very disappointing. They sure talked about how they recognized the problem, but nothing ever seemed to happen. Last spring they froze tuition and it has (I think) remained frozen. They actually dropped my summer (2014) tuition somewhat. I don't know what Illinois costs, but our cost is too high, even though it's an excellent school. I have no idea what's coming down the pipe tuition-wise (can they keep it frozen? reduce it? will they increase it?). Projection wise you should just assume that your fourth year will cost 3 semesters instead of 2. It's probably more like 2.5-2.75, but.....

Collaboration:
Inter- and intra-class collaboration is very high at UMN. Don't fret about it. There are obviously competitive people, and you'll know who they are, but in general there are so many people willing to work together that it's background noise. My class had many people posting study guides on FB for every test, lots of study groups, etc. It's a very different atmosphere than undergrad. I suspect this is true at <most> vet schools. People want to do well because that's how we all GOT here - and some people feel additional pressure because of internship/residency applications - but collaboration rules the day. In four years I've only once run into a situation where I thought a classmate was genuinely trying to make some of us look worse in order to elevate herself. It was one lousy 4th-year rotation, so you just roll your eyes, plow through, and move on. No big deal. And by 4th year you quit caring about grades anyway.

Rankings:
I would personally not worry about rankings too much because I don't know of a way to correlate them to the experience you're going to have. The things that make UMN rank higher may or may not be relevant to you, and I don't even know how you figure out what those things ARE, anyway. You will be a fine vet if you apply yourself regardless of what school you go to - the body of knowledge is pretty standard, and from what I can tell as an almost-grad, your first few years out are probably as or more important anyway.

 

[McVet0071]

I'm at Illinois if you have any specific questions. Champaign-Urbana is in the middle of nowhere from a perspective of a person who is actually from Minnesota.

As far as clinics 1st and 2nd year. They are moving the timing of the quarter they occur to try and make it better. A lot of the rotations are in the hospital and you shadow a 4th year. You also have some rotations that are specific for 1st and 2nd years that are like surgical skills, etc. I found those rotations a lot better because they were focused on your learning. Hospital rotations are focused mostly on 4th years and your experience depends on how much your 4th year wants to include you, which can be very hit and miss. My experience has found that those rotations don't have much hands on experience.

If you are into wildlife, they have a ton of experience with that, but I'm not a part of it, so I can answer anything specific about it.

As far as tuition, I'm not exactly sure what OOS is a Minnesota is, but my tuition OOS at Illinois is basically $50,000. It has increased every year and the wonderful Governor of Illinois is proposing major cuts to higher education. Illinois has also gone to increasing their out of state seats quite a bit recently and actually increasing the class size next year.

 

[catnips]

Thank you so much both! I think I have a really good idea what UMN is like now. It seems the cost really is the biggest con of Minnesota. I was worried about the cold, but Illinois have the tornadoes which I am terrified of... I prefer snow over tornadoes.

@McVet0071 I am coming from NYC and very much used to big cities. Is Urbana-Champaign at least livable for someone that is used to a city? Are there enough things to do at least? And, are the people in town generally open minded? I have lived in a small Southern town for three years and hated the town, but was generally ok with it because of my school. So I feel like I can do it if the school keeps you busy. I didn't wanna do the middle of nowhere thing again so that is definitely a big concern. At the same time, the rent is cheap enough there that my husband would be able to pay for a lot of things, decreasing my loans down.

Illinois is about 5k cheaper than UMN so 20k for four years. And with the summer tuition, I guess that makes the difference 35-40k... Not too big of an amount compared to what I will be taking out, but every little bit helps.

Do you get more of the 4th year shadowing rotations or more of the surgical skills rotations?

Also, one last thing, if I end up at Illinois, we are thinking to buy a trailer home. Is this an ok idea, or are there too many tornadoes for that to be dangerous? I am very scared of them, never seen one, and since I have pets at home, I am mostly worried about them being alone and getting stuck in a tornado etc... Lol, I hope this is not a legitimate fear.

 

[LetItSnow]

Also, one last thing, if I end up at Illinois, we are thinking to buy a trailer home. Is this an ok idea, or are there too many tornadoes for that to be dangerous? I am very scared of them, never seen one, and since I have pets at home, I am mostly worried about them being alone and getting stuck in a tornado etc... Lol, I hope this is not a legitimate fear.

Keep in mind MN has tornadoes, too. Not trying to push you to Illinois or anything, but... just don't want you to think we don't get them. Other than ocean-related things like hurricanes, we pretty much get all the bad weather here. Soz.

That said, I've lived here nearly 40 years. I haven't yet been eaten by a tornado, though I've seen a couple from a safe-ish distance.

 

[catnips]

Keep in mind MN has tornadoes, too. Not trying to push you to Illinois or anything, but... just don't want you to think we don't get them. Other than ocean-related things like hurricanes, we pretty much get all the bad weather here. Soz.

That said, I've lived here nearly 40 years. I haven't yet been eaten by a tornado, though I've seen a couple from a safe-ish distance.

Oh, had no idea MN gets tornadoes. I live right by the ocean in NYC so had my fair share of hurricanes, which is far less scary than tornadoes.

Midwesterners are brave.

 

[KCgophervet]

Oh, had no idea MN gets tornadoes. I live right by the ocean in NYC so had my fair share of hurricanes, which is far less scary than tornadoes.

Midwesterners are brave.

No earthquakes though!

 

[McVet0071]

I would say the tornado risk is about the same in Illinois as Minnesota. In the 2 years I have been down here during the school year, we have had 2 risks of severe weather. They forecast about a week in advance of severe weather, so it is not really a surprise. The weather is very similar, just usaully more mild in Urbana.

Champaign -Urbana itself is a decent size for where it is located. 2.5 hours from Chicago. People seem to find things to do. People are pretty open minded. It is south central Illinois, so I have noticed a more southern culture in some aspects. As someone who has lived in Minnesota all my life, it was actually somewhat of a culture shock. I used to think the Midwest is the Midwest, but there are variations.

As far as rotations, there are more 4th year shadowing rotations. Some of those rotations have times where you go the clinical skills lab to learn specific things.

 

[catnips]

I would say the tornado risk is about the same in Illinois as Minnesota. In the 2 years I have been down here during the school year, we have had 2 risks of severe weather. They forecast about a week in advance of severe weather, so it is not really a surprise. The weather is very similar, just usaully more mild in Urbana.

Champaign -Urbana itself is a decent size for where it is located. 2.5 hours from Chicago. People seem to find things to do. People are pretty open minded. It is south central Illinois, so I have noticed a more southern culture in some aspects. As someone who has lived in Minnesota all my life, it was actually somewhat of a culture shock. I used to think the Midwest is the Midwest, but there are variations.

As far as rotations, there are more 4th year shadowing rotations. Some of those rotations have times where you go the clinical skills lab to learn specific things.

Thanks so much! I think that's about it for my questions. Now on to the decision phase... Thanks all for help!