Need Advice Please...SGU Medical Student looking to get into DO school

[jojoflex]

Hey everyone,
My apologies if similar posts have been addressed previously. I started a thread a while back with the same question, however, I would like to gain insight on my situation. I am currently enrolled as a 2nd term medical student at SGU in the Caribbean (I know, I should have listened to everyone and NOT have attended from the beginning), however, I took a leave of absence with the option of returning in January. However, I prefer not to attend this institution and would rather attend a D.O. school in the States as I feel in doing so I would have a better chance of securing a residency compared to an IMG. At present, I am considering applying to master's programs and retaking the MCAT. I have applied to D.O. schools once before, and was denied, most likely due to my low MCAT which was in the low 20s. All advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!

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[radkat101]

How have you been performing at SGU up to this point?

Edit: or did you take a leave of absence the whole fall semester?

 

[jojoflex]

Thanks for the reply radkat101. I performed well in my first semester, and I was doing well in my second semester, however, I had to take a LOA for family reasons.

 

[radkat101]

Why the masters? If if was just the MCAT keeping you out of DO schools in the first place, I'd get out now and focus on improving that. It doesn't sound like you went Caribbean just for the MD, and you've already proven yourself capable of handling med school, so I don't see why you wouldn't have a decent shot at acceptance.

 

[jojoflex]

Thanks for the advice Radkat101. My overall cumulative/science GPA is roughly a 3.3, thus why I am considering doing the masters. I appreciate your kind words. So you agree that I should not return to SGU and should just retake the MCAT and reapply DO? I've spoken with others (including physicians both MD and DO) and they told me that I should just reapply and stay in the US as it will be a better option in the long run (specifically for obtaining residency).

 

[radkat101]

I don't think there's any question that your residency opportunities will be much better as an AMG. Especially now with the merger coming up. Since you aren't that far along in med school, I think it would be smart to get out now if you're SURE you can improve your stats enough for a DO acceptance. Is there a way for you to hold your spot at SGU for the remainder of the year while you work on improving the MCAT? It would be nice to have that improved MCAT score in hand BEFORE completely cutting ties with SGU.

 

[jojoflex]

Thanks Radkat101. Yes, I have recently asked for an extension on the LOA until August, thus I believe I will do as you said and retake the MCAT. Thank you for the advice!

 

[radkat101]

Thanks Radkat101. Yes, I have recently asked for an extension on the LOA until August, thus I believe I will do as you said and retake the MCAT. Thank you for the advice!

Best of luck. Hopefully others chime in.

 

[Goro]

You're DOA at my school. You had your chance to go DO the first time.

Hey everyone,
My apologies if similar posts have been addressed previously. I started a thread a while back with the same question, however, I would like to gain insight on my situation. I am currently enrolled as a 2nd term medical student at SGU in the Caribbean (I know, I should have listened to everyone and NOT have attended from the beginning), however, I took a leave of absence with the option of returning in January. However, I prefer not to attend this institution and would rather attend a D.O. school in the States as I feel in doing so I would have a better chance of securing a residency compared to an IMG. At present, I am considering applying to master's programs and retaking the MCAT. I have applied to D.O. schools once before, and was denied, most likely due to my low MCAT which was in the low 20s. All advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

[BigEinstein]

Thanks for the advice Radkat101. My overall cumulative/science GPA is roughly a 3.3, thus why I am considering doing the masters. I appreciate your kind words. So you agree that I should not return to SGU and should just retake the MCAT and reapply DO? I've spoken with others (including physicians both MD and DO) and they told me that I should just reapply and stay in the US as it will be a better option in the long run (specifically for obtaining residency).

Don't even bother to hold your seat at SGU if you think it's too bad for you. People like you are ungrateful. The school gave you a chance when no other school would and now if you should have listened to the folks here then drop out of SGU and chase your dreams here.

 

[rjgennarelli]

You're DOA at my school. You had your chance to go DO the first time.

He said he tried and got rejected. OP: this is a tough choice and going back to square one is never easy. Good luck.

 

[Goro]

Some chance! As long as OP was breathing and could write a tuition check, there was a seat at SGU waiting for him/her.

Don't even bother to hold your seat at SGU if you think it's too bad for you. People like you are ungrateful. The school gave you a chance when no other school would and now if you should have listened to the folks here then drop out of SGU and chase your dreams here.

 

[jojoflex]

Thank you all for all of your comments and advice, I really appreciate it. And BigEinstein, I would like to extend a special thanks to you. I see that you're currently a medical student, congrats! I hope you learn not to be so judgmental with your future patients, and although I respect your opinion of calling me ungrateful, you do not know my entire story and reason behind my LOA from SGU. Nonetheless, I wish you endless success in all of your future endeavors. Cheers!

 

[BigEinstein]

Some chance! As long as OP was breathing and could write a tuition check, there was a seat at SGU waiting for him/her.

I beg to differ. SGU has DO average admission stats. Don't say what you do not know please.

 

[LChristmas]

Lol @ pre-med calling out an adcom

Aside: I had a ugrad prof tell me a few years ago that it is not hard to get into medical school, it just depends on how much you want to pay for it. I never really understood what he meant until last year.

 

[diesel2101]

I beg to differ. SGU has DO average admission stats. Don't say what you do not know please.

They claim they do, but I don't buy the hype.

 

[Haxx]

I beg to differ. SGU has DO average admission stats. Don't say what you do not know please.

You must be new here...

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I don't know if schools will even want to give you a chance considering you're already in the Caribbean. It's not about the stats. It could become a true uphill battle. My suggestion is to do well in the Caribbean and pretty much accept your fate is going to primary care or psychiatry if you land a residency. Another path is transfer to US MD if you manage to knock out the USMLE. I know it's a longshot, but it's possible.

 

[hallowmann]

Keep all your options open and quit listening to bitter people here. Extend your LOA, take the MCAT, apply early and broadly DO. If you get interviews, extend the LOA further to Jan. If no acceptances by then, continue at SGU 1 extra semester behind. You can try transferring US MD if you're top of the class and rock Step 1 (270ish). If not, get off the island and go on clinicals.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I cannot argue the fact that top residencies would be difficult for a foreign graduate, if not impossible. If you want to enter plastic surgery or radiology then you might as well forget about it. But I would venture to say that, in general, most people who want to be doctors are more interested in patient contact. Of course, some people want to publish and be scientists. But I am talking about being a direct health care provider. There are many US residents that did not enter their choice residencies and had to fall back on primary care or surgery. If you want to be a physician, in the clinical aspect of the term, then I see no problem with foreign schools.
Yes, there is a huge life change. Quality of life will not be the same. But it is only for 2 years! You will take the same stupid intro courses as your US med school peers. Same books in some cases. You return to the US and do your rotations here. If medicine is truly your calling then I feel it is a viable option. Not an easy one, but will get you practicing medicine. I often debate whether I want it bad enough or not. I just want you to make a smart decision. Follow your heart, not someone elses arrogance.

It's not about being bitter. I personally don't care if this person went to the Caribbean or DO was not their first choice. The question is if schools would realistically give them a shot or would they be delaying more time to graduate, which means another year with more schools graduating from the US. I also wonder what the deal will be with funding considering they already took out a semester of loans.

 

[hallowmann]

It's not about being bitter. I personally don't care if this person went to the Caribbean or DO was not their first choice. The question is if schools would realistically give them a shot or would they be delaying more time to graduate, which means another year with more schools graduating from the US. I also wonder what the deal will be with funding considering they already took out a semester of loans.

I wasn't really talking about you. Either way though OP is delayed a year regardless whether they start in August or January, why not try and see if they can get into a US school. Like I mentioned in another thread, when I was on the interview trail 2 years ago, I bumped into a few people that were in the exact same situation as OP. If they were invited to interview by some DO schools, something tells me some schools would be open to getting their apps and even accepting them.

 

[radian313]

OP please PM me I also went to sgu but had to withdraw for medical reasons as I had contracted some nasty tropical diseases. All was documented and all by docs there and here. Let's talk I too am applying DO let's talk maybe I can offer some insight.

 

[radkat101]

It's not about being bitter. I personally don't care if this person went to the Caribbean or DO was not their first choice. The question is if schools would realistically give them a shot or would they be delaying more time to graduate, which means another year with more schools graduating from the US. I also wonder what the deal will be with funding considering they already took out a semester of loans.

If OP was performing well in the Caribbean, and recognized the mistake of going there, I can't think of a good reason most DO schools (or any US school for that matter) would really care. What if the OP had gone to law school or pharmacy school and realized after the fact that it wasn't the right choice for them? OP is already paying the price of having to repeat a year, and spending tuition money for nothing. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't really understand what the issue is here.

 

[Escape_Goat]

Someone in my class did a year at a Caribbean school and was accepted to my school contingent he do a master's here first. He did the master's and is now rockin' it in med school.

 

[jojoflex]

Radian313 I PM'd you. Thank you all for the continued advice, I really appreciate it.

 

[AlteredScale]

I beg to differ. SGU has DO average admission stats. Don't say what you do not know please.

I don't buy that at all. Your previous posting history has a post that says that a girl got into SGU with a 20 MCAT and 3.2 GPA. That wouldn't cut it at any DO program including LUCOM.

You can't ignore the elephant in the room: there are exponentially better chances of a DO grad matching into a program of their choice than an IMG matching anywhere in the US.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If OP was performing well in the Caribbean, and recognized the mistake of going there, I can't think of a good reason most DO schools (or any US school for that matter) would really care. What if the OP had gone to law school or pharmacy school and realized after the fact that it wasn't the right choice for them? OP is already paying the price of having to repeat a year, and spending tuition money for nothing. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't really understand what the issue is here.

Mainly that he already started a program and that means you a) pouch a student from another program, and b) you take away the chance from someone trying the first time. It's usually similar if you are enrolled in law school. You either have to drop out or graduate before going to the next program.

 

[Goro]

Unfortunately, Admissions deans have different prerogatives than do the Faculty. The former want bodies in seats, as long as they're breathing. The latter want people who are genuinely interested in Osteopathy and will be good students.

If they were invited to interview by some DO schools, something tells me some schools would be open to getting their apps and even accepting them.

 

[BigEinstein]

I don't buy that at all. Your previous posting history has a post that says that a girl got into SGU with a 20 MCAT and 3.2 GPA. That wouldn't cut it at any DO program including LUCOM.

You can't ignore the elephant in the room: there are exponentially better chances of a DO grad matching into a program of their choice than an IMG matching anywhere in the US.

No comment

 

[hallowmann]

Unfortunately, Admissions deans have different prerogatives than do the Faculty. The former want bodies in seats, as long as they're breathing. The latter want people who are genuinely interested in Osteopathy and will be good students.

If they were invited to interview by some DO schools, something tells me some schools would be open to getting their apps and even accepting them.

That's definitely true, and I'm sure some schools like your own wouldn't even look at OP's app.

That said, I think OP's situation is very different from say someone who got into a DO school and chose SGU. I mean OP was rejected from DO schools initially, accepted at SGU, successful at least for one semester at SGU, then decided to return, improve their app, and reapply DO. It's very possible OP was genuinely interested in Osteopathy (but was never previously given the opportunity to pursue that interest) and that they will make a good DO student. Obviously this is subjective, but I could see why even some faculty would be open to the idea of having OP as a student.

Now someone who chose Carib over DO when they were accepted to both, that's a completely different thing, and I would not expect many DO faculty members to be open to that.

 

[costales]

I believe there are some schools that allow Caribbean students in good standing to reapply as 1st years. (There is a general prohibition against accepting Caribbean students as transfers because of the foreign credits and accreditation status.)

 

[235009]

Most of the advice here is pretty awful mostly because the posters on this forum love nothing more than to crap on Caribbean schools (while simultaneously crying foul when anyone points out some inconvenient truths about DO schools).

If OP goes to a DO school he's not gonna be that one shining star who rocks step 1 with a 270 as someone was fantasizing earlier in this thread. At best he'll be average. If you look at the match list for sgu it's strikingly similar to that of DO schools (mostly community IM and FM programs noone has heard of). So being realistic and assuming that OP is gonna be an average student I foresee the outcome being equivalent regardless of which school he goes to (especially since his best bet is gonna be one of the new or low reputation DO schools). So my advice would be to just tough it out at sgu. It's by far the best out of the Caribbean schools and you won't really be gaining much by making the switch now but you'll be digging yourself into a bigger financial hole.

 

[hallowmann]

Most of the advice here is pretty awful mostly because the posters on this forum love nothing more than to crap on Caribbean schools (while simultaneously crying foul when anyone points out some inconvenient truths about DO schools).

If OP goes to a DO school he's not gonna be that one shining star who rocks step 1 with a 270 as someone was fantasizing earlier in this thread. At best he'll be average. If you look at the match list for sgu it's strikingly similar to that of DO schools (mostly community IM and FM programs noone has heard of). So being realistic and assuming that OP is gonna be an average student I foresee the outcome being equivalent regardless of which school he goes to (especially since his best bet is gonna be one of the new or low reputation DO schools). So my advice would be to just tough it out at sgu. It's by far the best out of the Caribbean schools and you won't really be gaining much by making the switch now but you'll be digging yourself into a bigger financial hole.

How about if OP ends up at the bottom of his class? How about the bottom quartile? You can look at the placement lists of the 70-75% of SGU matriculants that make it out and get any GME to that of the 90-95% of DO matriculants that do the same. It kind of sucks for the bottom quarter or so, doesn't it? Also, where do you live that a DO needs a 270 to get a Rads or Gas residency? DOs regularly get those with 240 scores, yet those are considered the height of competitiveness for the Big 4 schools.

Also, SGU is a pretty damn expensive school (about double what my school costs - ~$61k/yr just on tuition) with a relatively high cost of living (the islands aren't cheap). Even with how expensive DO schools are (average tuition in the $48-$49k-ish area), OP could still end up with less principle debt than if they stayed at SGU.

OP also has a personal reason to stay stateside. They also are already delayed a year. Exactly what harm would there be for OP to apply DO?

This isn't about a pissing contest. Some people, unlike you (because you didn't need to), actually weighed the options OP is dealing with.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

How about if OP ends up at the bottom of his class? How about the bottom quartile? You can look at the placement lists of the 70-75% of SGU matriculants that make it out and get any GME to that of the 90-95% of DO matriculants that do the same. It kind of sucks for the bottom quarter or so, doesn't it? Also, where do you live that a DO needs a 270 to get a Rads or Gas residency? DOs regularly get those with 240 scores, yet those are considered the height of competitiveness for the Big 4 schools.

Also, SGU is a pretty damn expensive school (about double what my school costs - ~$61k/yr just on tuition) with a relatively high cost of living (the islands aren't cheap). Even with how expensive DO schools are (average tuition in the $48-$49k-ish area), OP could still end up with less principle debt than if they stayed at SGU.

OP also has a personal reason to stay stateside. They also are already delayed a year. Exactly what harm would there be for OP to apply DO?

This isn't about a pissing contest. Some people, unlike you (because you didn't need to), actually weighed the options OP is dealing with.

I have to agree with one of your points. As a DO student, the only way you won't match is if you apply unrealistically or have some serious red flags. There are many students at SGU that get their diploma with no red flags and average step scores that cannot land a residency. It will only get worse with all the new schools that have opened up. I think somewhere around 3k more DO graduates in 2018 than there were in 2010, and I remember even back in 2008 when I first started considering pre-med that people were telling me to avoid Caribbean.

 

[jakeislove]

I don't buy that at all. Your previous posting history has a post that says that a girl got into SGU with a 20 MCAT and 3.2 GPA. That wouldn't cut it at any DO program including LUCOM.

You can't ignore the elephant in the room: there are exponentially better chances of a DO grad matching into a program of their choice than an IMG matching anywhere in the US.

Until the merger a lot of programs didn't even take DOs, LOL!

The other elephant in the room? How long until new US schools overpopulate residency slots and DO isn't the safe alternative to MD? No one is naive enough to believe it will only affect IMGs.

SGU is a pretty solid school, OP. It may not be worth transferring unless your issue is recurring and needs the better medical care available in the US. Taking the MCAT and applying here may be a better decision if you're going to be delayed and want a safer route.

With a new school opening all the time, you'll probably an opportunity to finish stateside. I would worry about how switching schools would be viewed on your ERAS application, though.

 

[diesel2101]

Caribbean is just too risky, atm.

I suppose the Caribbean has become less of a risk in the past 4 days?

Until the merger a lot of programs didn't even take DOs, LOL!

The other elephant in the room? How long until new US schools overpopulate residency slots and DO isn't the safe alternative to MD? No one is naive enough to believe it will only affect IMGs.

SGU is a pretty solid school, OP. It may not be worth transferring unless your issue is recurring and needs the better medical care available in the US. Taking the MCAT and applying here may be a better decision if you're going to be delayed and want a safer route.

With a new school opening all the time, you'll probably an opportunity to finish stateside. I would worry about how switching schools would be viewed on your ERAS application, though.

While this is true, there are programs that don't take Caribbean grads either.

 

[jakeislove]

I suppose the Caribbean has become less of a risk in the past 4 days?



While this is true, there are programs that don't take Caribbean grads either.

Hasn't OP already completed second term? Sometimes you have to "dance with the one what brung ya", diesel2101. Starting from scratch or transferring would be difficult and time consuming. Without a really great crystal ball, no one can say for certain that starting from scratch will make OP's life better.

I wouldn't advise anyone to start in the Caribbean now because the combined match will affect them first. It'll take a few years to see how bad things get.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Hope isn't lost for SGU grads who hope to get into DO schools, despite what @Goro says about his own school's policies.

My husband graduated from SGU and failed to match 3 years in a row. He recently got accepted to a top 5 DO program after retaking the MCAT and scoring a 35.

OP, you haven't graduated which I think puts you in an even better position. You can spin it on your application that it wasn't a good fit early on which shows insight.

 

[Goro]

Suggest you email OP to give him/her a useful link.

Hope isn't lost for SGU grads who hope to get into DO schools, despite what @Goro says about his own school's policies.

My husband graduated from SGU and failed to match 3 years in a row. He recently got accepted to a top 5 DO program after retaking the MCAT and scoring a 35.

OP, you haven't graduated which I think puts you in an even better position. You can spin it on your application that it wasn't a good fit early on which shows insight.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Suggest you email OP to give him/her a useful link.

Will do!

 

[hallowmann]

Hasn't OP already completed second term? Sometimes you have to "dance with the one what brung ya", diesel2101. Starting from scratch or transferring would be difficult and time consuming. Without a really great crystal ball, no one can say for certain that starting from scratch will make OP's life better.

I wouldn't advise anyone to start in the Caribbean now because the combined match will affect them first. It'll take a few years to see how bad things get.

I got the impression OP did MS1 (term 1), but did an LOA for term 2 (now), which has been/will be extended to August. If that's the case, OP still has MS2-5, followed by clinical terms 1-5 left. That's an additional principle tuition cost of >$200k, so even if OP went to a DO school and repeated the first semester, they'd end up with the same debt, and only delay themselves a year.

Assuming I understood their situation correctly, OP is already off-cycle and will be matching with the class of 2019 (finish school late summer or fall of 2018), which is the same as going to the Carib now. If they applied DO this summer and was accepted, they'd graduate/match with class of 2020.

If you're right and OP completed both terms 1 & 2, that would change things a bit, but I'd still recommend taking the MCAT and applying DO this summer, but maybe risk the cost and return to SGU in August, so they might be able to finish in 2018 (i.e. leave that option open).

 

[jojoflex]

Once again, thank you everyone for providing your insight on this matter. And Hallowmann, your impression is correct. You stated my exact situation at present; I successfully completed my first semester, began my 2nd semester, but took a leave of absence during my 2nd semester and as of late I have requested to extend that leave of absence until August. I am considering applying to a postbac/masters while also reapplying DO this summer that way I won't waste a year doing nothing, plus I can improve my academic record since my cumulative/science GPA is on the lower end (both around 3.3). Thoughts? Thanks in advance!

 

[diesel2101]

Post bac>masters probably as far as bang for your buck.

 

[Bancrofti]

OP did you apply broadly enough your first time around? I know a couple people who didn't pass at SGU or disliked it and left who got in to DO schools afterwards. One of whom I know the college GPA was higher than yours, but the others I believe had similar stats. I think you should retake the MCAT and apply DO.

That being said, I'm not really sure how the process works anymore. Can DO apps be sent out June 1st? Can you get interviews in before you would have to go back to SGU? I think you'd have a hard time being accepted to a DO school if you can't make it to the interview to make a good impression. Maybe money isn't an issue for you though and you'll be able to afford the flights back and forth.

 

[hallowmann]

OP, I honestly don't know about the post-bac. If you could do a DIY post-bac for GPA repair, that wouldn't be bad, but doing a formal Post-Bac/SMP for the 2015-2016 year would eliminate chances of returning to SGU (if you wanted to keep that option open) until summer 2016 (delaying you potentially further if you want to finish the MD there).

If you're sure you don't want to return to SGU and are willing to risk it without a backup, then you could do it, but those programs are also pricey and are really only worth it if you can afford it and maybe if you want a specific DO school.

At this point, I'd focus on the MCAT. If you can get a 28/29/30, I doubt you'd even need grade repair if your goal is just to get in anywhere.

...That being said, I'm not really sure how the process works anymore. Can DO apps be sent out June 1st? Can you get interviews in before you would have to go back to SGU? I think you'd have a hard time being accepted to a DO school if you can't make it to the interview to make a good impression. Maybe money isn't an issue for you though and you'll be able to afford the flights back and forth.

I think apps still start June 1st. The earliest I've heard interviews go out is mid-July for dates in late July or early August. This is why it might make sense to extend the LOA to Jan 2016 if possible, and if invites don't come in then just continue through at SGU.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Until the merger a lot of programs didn't even take DOs, LOL!

The other elephant in the room? How long until new US schools overpopulate residency slots and DO isn't the safe alternative to MD? No one is naive enough to believe it will only affect IMGs.

SGU is a pretty solid school, OP. It may not be worth transferring unless your issue is recurring and needs the better medical care available in the US. Taking the MCAT and applying here may be a better decision if you're going to be delayed and want a safer route.

With a new school opening all the time, you'll probably an opportunity to finish stateside. I would worry about how switching schools would be viewed on your ERAS application, though.

The number of programs that didn't take DO compared to getting in through the Caribbean is not even comparable. I don't know if you're laughing at yourself or what.

DO programs now own a good chunk of ACGME. There's near 0% chance that there will be a day DO schools will not be a safe alternative. Maybe one day DO schools will be forced to have LCME standards and give "MD, DO," but that's another conversation.

SGU may be a solid caribbean school, but honestly, even graduating from LUCOM is better than SGU.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

Until the merger a lot of programs didn't even take DOs, LOL!

Since the merger, there hasn't been a match, so this statement is actually nonsensical.

 

[jakeislove]

The number of programs that didn't take DO compared to getting in through the Caribbean is not even comparable. I don't know if you're laughing at yourself or what.

DO programs now own a good chunk of ACGME. There's near 0% chance that there will be a day DO schools will not be a safe alternative. Maybe one day DO schools will be forced to have LCME standards and give "MD, DO," but that's another conversation.

SGU may be a solid caribbean school, but honestly, even graduating from LUCOM is better than SGU.

I feel DO school will be safer and OP has less risk starting from scratch.

 

[NurWollen]

Hope isn't lost for SGU grads who hope to get into DO schools, despite what @Goro says about his own school's policies.

My husband graduated from SGU and failed to match 3 years in a row. He recently got accepted to a top 5 DO program after retaking the MCAT and scoring a 35.

OP, you haven't graduated which I think puts you in an even better position. You can spin it on your application that it wasn't a good fit early on which shows insight.

Kudos to him. I mean, all of us here want to be doctors, but I don't know how many of us want it bad enough that we'd be willing to go through med school twice .

Hopefully the med school curriculum will be a breeze for him the second time though.

 

[orangeman25]

If you look at the match list for sgu it's strikingly similar to that of DO schools (mostly community IM and FM programs noone has heard of)

Been saying this literally from DAY 1 and have gotten so much crap for it. The only difference b/w SGU's match list and most DO match lists is that 70% of SGU grads match and most DOs match. But that's because Caribbean schools have incredibly low standards of admission so there will be people attending who have no business going to medical school; hence, the high attrition. Why are people on this site going around telling people that going to SGU is SO HORRIFIC when there is a 70% match rate and the match results are like most DO schools? Doesn't make any sense to me.