Neurosurgery programs increase in length

[nysegop]

Neurosurgery programs, once 6 years in length, are now 7 years (for most programs). In addition, some are becoming 8 year programs.

The majority of neurosurgery residencies will now be 7 years in length. Some will be 8.


Brigham and Women's - 8 years
Boston Children's - 8 Years
University of Puerto Rico - 8 years

To become an attending neurosurgeon one must spend at least 15 years after high school in education.

-ugrad 4
-med school 4
-residency 7

SOURCE:
American Medical Association - FREIDA Online® (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/education-careers/graduate-medical-education/freida-online.page)
University of Maryland Medical Center (http://www.umm.edu/neurosciences/residency_program.htm)

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Arijos0222]

Neurosurgery programs, once 6 years in length, are now 7 years (for most programs). In addition, some are becoming 8 year programs.

The majority of neurosurgery residencies will now be 7 years in length. Some will be 8.


Brigham and Women's - 8 years
Boston Children's - 8 Years
University of Puerto Rico - 8 years

To become an attending neurosurgeon one must spend at least 15 years after high school in education.

-ugrad 4
-med school 4
-residency 7

SOURCE:
American Medical Association - FREIDA Online® (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/education-careers/graduate-medical-education/freida-online.page)
University of Maryland Medical Center (http://www.umm.edu/neurosciences/residency_program.htm)

Hey, at least it doesn't take as long to become a Cardiothoracic Surgeon.

...Oh wait...

Yeah, I don't think we're going to have many surgeons in 20 years.

 

[nysegop]

Hey, at least it doesn't take as long to become a Cardiothoracic Surgeon.

...Oh wait...

Yeah, I don't think we're going to have many surgeons in 20 years.

Uh oh. Why not?

 

[mmmcdowe]

Surgeons aren't going away for a very long time.

 

[futuresurgeon00]

In addition, there are going to be a lot more robots in the future....and medicine is going to be integrated with technology a lot more...

 

[Tolbert]

I think surgeons will still control the robots though

 

[futuresurgeon00]

I think surgeons will still control the robots though

We can only hope...-__-

 

[deleted393595]

Neurosurgery programs, once 6 years in length, are now 7 years (for most programs). In addition, some are becoming 8 year programs.

The majority of neurosurgery residencies will now be 7 years in length. Some will be 8.


Brigham and Women's - 8 years
Boston Children's - 8 Years
University of Puerto Rico - 8 years

To become an attending neurosurgeon one must spend at least 15 years after high school in education.

-ugrad 4
-med school 4
-residency 7

SOURCE:
American Medical Association - FREIDA Online® (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/education-careers/graduate-medical-education/freida-online.page)
University of Maryland Medical Center (http://www.umm.edu/neurosciences/residency_program.htm)

And your point is?

In addition, there are going to be a lot more robots in the future....and medicine is going to be integrated with technology a lot more...

Some of the surgeon controlled robot tech is absolutely gorgeous from demos I have been fortunate enough to see.

There are so many features to it that are really going to make the training of future neurosugeons a lot easier, and make a possible a lot of surgeries that were formerly impossible. Not to mention that it will actually improve patient safety.

 

[nysegop]

And your point is?



Some of the surgeon controlled robot tech is absolutely gorgeous from demos I have been fortunate enough to see.

There are so many features to it that are really going to make the training of future neurosugeons a lot easier, and make a possible a lot of surgeries that were formerly impossible. Not to mention that it will actually improve patient safety.

What do you mean what is my point? Not everything has to be a controversial subject. I just thought it was interesting that hospitals and universities are choosing to increase the length of neurosurg programs.

 

[nysegop]

In addition, there are going to be a lot more robots in the future....and medicine is going to be integrated with technology a lot more...

Good thing I like technology
Maybe surgeons should take computer science classes

 

[deleted393595]

What do you mean what is my point? Not everything has to be a controversial subject. I just thought it was interesting that hospitals and universities are choosing to increase the length of neurosurg programs.

And why should we care about this?

 

[Arijos0222]

And why should we care about this?

The internet isn't a place where you should just freely roam around and cut down other's enthusiasm.

If you don't care, then pay no attention to things that are not of importance to you in the first place, therefore, you wouldn't even have had to comment.

If you have no constructive information then just leave. What you are saying isn't even constructive criticism, you are just being a total jerk (for the lack of a better word to describe the uselessness of your reply.)

 

[deleted393595]

The internet isn't a place where you should just freely roam around and cut down other's enthusiasm.

If you don't care, then pay no attention to things that are not of importance to you in the first place, therefore, you wouldn't even have had to comment.

If you have no constructive information then just leave. What you are saying isn't even constructive criticism, you are just being a total jerk (for the lack of a better word to describe the uselessness of your reply.)

I was just wondering what the OP wanted us readers to takeaway from reading this thread.

Should we be concerned that neurosurg residency is going to be longer while reimbursements are declining and school tuition is increasing? Should we be quite happy that the increased length of its residency is going to provide better training? Should we be quite sad that no matter how hard we try, we'll never have hair as good as Derek Shepard/Patrick Dempsey, who happens to be a neurosurgeon?Is the length of neurosurgery residency increased because of newly added hair styling programs to help have residents have hair almost as good looking as Derek Shepard/Patrick Dempsey?

I didn't understand what the OP was trying to say when I first read his/her post, and I'm still confused as to what the takeaway from this thread is.



EDIT: Just saw your tagline above your avatar. Rachmaninov is my favorite

 

[nysegop]

I was just wondering what the OP wanted us readers to takeaway from reading this thread.

Should we be concerned that neurosurg residency is going to be longer while reimbursements are declining and school tuition is increasing? Should we be quite happy that the increased length of its residency is going to provide better training? Should we be quite sad that no matter how hard we try, we'll never have hair as good as Derek Shepard/Patrick Dempsey, who happens to be a neurosurgeon?Is the length of neurosurgery residency increased because of newly added hair styling programs to help have residents have hair almost as good looking as Derek Shepard/Patrick Dempsey?

I didn't understand what the OP was trying to say when I first read his/her post, and I'm still confused as to what the takeaway from this thread is.

I'm going to go with all of those things. You have no idea how much I want to be like Derek Shepard. He gets all the ladies.

 

[deleted393595]

I'm going to go with all of those things. You have no idea how much I want to be like Derek Shepard. He gets all the ladies.

I wish I had his hair

 

[Tolbert]

I'm going to go with all of those things. You have no idea how much I want to be like Derek Shepard. He gets all the ladies.

I wish I had his hair

them McDreamy traits homie

 

[futuresurgeon00]

I'm going to go with all of those things. You have no idea how much I want to be like Derek Shepard. He gets all the ladies.

He really, really does....

This is coming from a girl...and his hair...hehehehe (I am such a girl ;b)

Oh well....

 

[Arijos0222]

I was just wondering what the OP wanted us readers to takeaway from reading this thread.

Should we be concerned that neurosurg residency is going to be longer while reimbursements are declining and school tuition is increasing? Should we be quite happy that the increased length of its residency is going to provide better training? Should we be quite sad that no matter how hard we try, we'll never have hair as good as Derek Shepard/Patrick Dempsey, who happens to be a neurosurgeon?Is the length of neurosurgery residency increased because of newly added hair styling programs to help have residents have hair almost as good looking as Derek Shepard/Patrick Dempsey?

I didn't understand what the OP was trying to say when I first read his/her post, and I'm still confused as to what the takeaway from this thread is.



EDIT: Just saw your tagline above your avatar. Rachmaninov is my favorite

What about Chopin? His music is similarly dark and amazing as well

 

[deleted393595]

What about Chopin? His music is similarly dark and amazing as well

It's good, but I like Rachmaninov because there's just so much complexity behind it.

 

[goofball]

8 years?? Ain't nobody got time for that.

With all due respect to neurosurgeons, 16 years of postsecondary training to get a job is crazy.

 

[mmmcdowe]

It's good, but I like Rachmaninov because there's just so much complexity behind it.

We have his piano.

 

[deleted393595]

We have his piano.

*gasp*

 

[Law2Doc]

8 years?? Ain't nobody got time for that.

With all due respect to neurosurgeons, 16 years of postsecondary training to get a job is crazy.

If you were already going to do 15 years, 16 shouldn't really phase you.

This kind of change will eventually happen in a lot of medical fields, and was inevitable thanks to duty hour limits. If you already had a very intense residency in terms of learning, and everybody was working 100+ hours a week just to become competent, and then the ACGME decides no, you have to work a maximum of 80 hours a week, you end up with either a group of people who have over a years less training (ie 20+ hours x 7 years), or you extend the training. The level of knowledge you need, and number of procedures you need yo do to become competent didn't go down, but your number of hour logged in the hospital each week drastically did, so some corrective measure (ie adding a year) is needed, it will likely have yo happen in other fields as well, but NS gets hit first because it one of the more intense paths where people lost the most hours by the changes.

 

[Arijos0222]

If you were already going to do 15 years, 16 shouldn't really phase you.

This kind of change will eventually happen in a lot of medical fields, and was inevitable thanks to duty hour limits. If you already had a very intense residency in terms of learning, and everybody was working 100+ hours a week just to become competent, and then the ACGME decides no, you have to work a maximum of 80 hours a week, you end up with either a group of people who have over a years less training (ie 20+ hours x 7 years), or you extend the training. The level of knowledge you need, and number of procedures you need yo do to become competent didn't go down, but your number of hour logged in the hospital each week drastically did, so some corrective measure (ie adding a year) is needed, it will likely have yo happen in other fields as well, but NS gets hit first because it one of the more intense paths where people lost the most hours by the changes.

How many people do you see going into these fields with extensive training? More people today worry about free time and more independence in this generation than any generation proceeding ours.

 

[Doctor Bob]

How many people do you see going into these fields with extensive training? More people today worry about free time and more independence in this generation than any generation proceeding ours.

The same number as before. If you're interested in doing something, then the time it takes to get to the desired goal shouldn't matter. If it does matter then that's a pretty good indicator of the level of your desire.

Besides, it isn't as though as a NSG resident you're doing something you don't want to do for those 7-8 years then magically becoming a neurosurgeon. For that long length of time you're working, as a neurosurgeon, refining your skills and your knowledge base. So you're still going to work every day and doing what you want to do.

 

[goofball]

If you were already going to do 15 years, 16 shouldn't really phase you.

This kind of change will eventually happen in a lot of medical fields, and was inevitable thanks to duty hour limits. If you already had a very intense residency in terms of learning, and everybody was working 100+ hours a week just to become competent, and then the ACGME decides no, you have to work a maximum of 80 hours a week, you end up with either a group of people who have over a years less training (ie 20+ hours x 7 years), or you extend the training. The level of knowledge you need, and number of procedures you need yo do to become competent didn't go down, but your number of hour logged in the hospital each week drastically did, so some corrective measure (ie adding a year) is needed, it will likely have yo happen in other fields as well, but NS gets hit first because it one of the more intense paths where people lost the most hours by the changes.

So you're saying that programs actually care about the ACGME changes? I thought it was all a sham, and that programs pretended to care about them, but in fact worked their residents for 100+ hrs/week anyways.

Guess I gotta stop being such a cynic.

 

[Law2Doc]

How many people do you see going into these fields with extensive training? More people today worry about free time and more independence in this generation than any generation proceeding ours.

NS never had a problem filling with a 7 year residency track plus some doing fellowship, it won't with 8 years. And it was never a career for those who worry about "free time". If you want to be a neurosurgeon you aren't going to just become a neurologist or a general surgeon because the path is shorter. Some might go via radiology and become neuro- interventional radiologists because there is some overlap, but that's 5 years residency plus a fellowship, most of which involves non brain stuff -- most people would prefer specializing sooner. As mentioned, in residency you are a doctor working in your desired specialty, so you already are a neurosurgeon from day one. For most people it's about doing what you want, so whether you are doing what you want as a trainee for 7 years or 8 really doesn't matter except to your bank book. I see no real issue of losing people here.

 

[Law2Doc]

So you're saying that programs actually care about the ACGME changes? I thought it was all a sham, and that programs pretended to care about them, but in fact worked their residents for 100+ hrs/week anyways.

Guess I gotta stop being such a cynic.

I'd say it's not a sham, but there isn't 100% buy in either. So everything looks kosher on paper, and programs say and do all the right things, try to have schedules that work within the number, etc., but if you are really there 85 hours a week and your time cards say 80, the program isn't really going to do much to second guess or audit you. But it would be hard to fly under the radar doing 100 hours, and no program will go on record with allowing that practice. there are creative ways programs try to deal with hours, but they absolutely lost about 20% of time per year to duty hour changes, which is why the extra year has become necessary, and ultimately likely will for other fields as well.