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New DO Schools

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Osteopathic [ DO ]' started by DrMediterranean, 05.02.12.

  1. DrMediterranean

    DrMediterranean

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    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    Just got this email from my Pre med advisor


    For Immediate Release


    May 2, 2012



    Contact Information:
    Wendy Fernando
    Vice President for Communications and Marketing
    (301) 968-4174
    wfernando@aacom.org
    www.aacom.org


    AACOM Welcomes Three New Member Colleges

    The leadership and Board of Deans of the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) are pleased to welcome three new colleges of osteopathic medicine as members of AACOM. The three colleges are now available to students applying through AACOMAS (AACOM’s centralized application service) for 2013 entry into osteopathic medical school.

    The three new colleges of osteopathic medicine and their respective deans include:

    Alabama College of Osteopathic Medicine (Dothan, AL)
    Craig J. Lenz, DO, FAODME, Founding Dean
    Campbell University School of Osteopathic Medicine (Buies Creek, NC)
    John M. Kauffman Jr., DO, Founding Dean
    Marian University College of Osteopathic Medicine (Indianapolis, IN)
    Paul Evans, DO, Vice President, Founding Dean
    With the addition of these new schools, there are now 29 U.S. colleges of osteopathic medicine (COMs), four branch campuses, and four additional teaching locations. Currently, more than 20 percent of medical students in the United States are earning their degrees at one of the nation’s COMs.

    The American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine promotes excellence in osteopathic medical education, in research and in service, and fosters innovation and quality among osteopathic medical colleges to improve the health of the American public.



    Quote from Dr. Stephen C. Shannon,
    President and CEO, American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine

    "We are proud of the growth of U.S. osteopathic medical education, and welcome these three new schools to AACOM. Osteopathic medicine, with its traditional community-based primary care and prevention focus, has an important role to play in ensuring that our nation’s health care system has the type of physicians that we need. Osteopathic medical education is pleased to provide leadership in this important area."
  2. Iliketoytles

    Iliketoytles

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    I'm just glad I'll be 1-2 years ahead of that year's class... otherwise that'd be ~500 more people applying for residency programs when I do. :scared:
  3. user3

    user3

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    Exactly. It is sad that new classes will not have as many opportunities as previous ones, and that everyone that didn't get in this year is just told "oh, just reapply!" not realizing how much worse things become each year in the DO cohort, ESPECIALLY next year's.
  4. Contagi0n

    Contagi0n

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    I'm still still in the "just care about getting into medical school" stage, but are D.O. residencies really that scarce?! This is disconcerting since I plan on applying to osteopathic schools..
  5. user3

    user3

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    In my experience many DO applicants are under informed about what they are getting themselves into. Not in terms of the DO philosophy but their post-graduate opportunities. Multiple times on the interview trail I saw students, deans, etc portray the image that any specialty is fine and attainable for a DO student. "You name a specialty, we've sent a grad into it" and "there are no do residencies in x specialty, but you can just do it through the md match" are statements I have heard, and they are misleading. applicants are not told how much harder many of these non primary care residencies will be to obtain--neglecting to even mention the climate of stagnant residency growth and rapidly increasing class sizes. Heck, I even talked to a guy at one interview that seemed to think that all a DO needs to do is take the USMLE, and they will be on equal footing with their MD colleagues.

    Such uninformedness/misinformation is more common than people think.
  6. FrkyBgStok

    FrkyBgStok DMU c/o 2016

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    +1. :thumbup: my wife and I talk about this constantly. I feel like I am getting into medicine at the perfect time based on what is happening in the economy and with schools, but the next couple years is going to be dodgy.
  7. MaximusMeridius

    MaximusMeridius

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    Just think of the diminishing chances of any IMG hoping to land a residency spot here with all the added competitors...seems I really side-stepped a landmine by going DO and, like toytles said, just barely squeaked in before these schools open.
  8. thecgrblue

    thecgrblue Enjoyin' the journey

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    At first I was incredulous about the ~500, then I saw Marian wants to have 150 in the first class.

    The Alabama school seems to be setting up a pipeline program where students can do their first 2 years at a D.O. school outside of Alabama then finish 3rd and 4th year with ACOM. Weird.
  9. willen101383

    willen101383

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    I wonder how long it is going to take before this whole thing reaches critical mass. Sad state of affairs in the DO world. And the higherups dont even see any of this as a problem. Smh
  10. Ibn Alnafis MD

    Ibn Alnafis MD

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  11. addiekm07

    addiekm07

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    I am in the process of filling out my AMCAS application and thought I would also apply for DO schools. I want to be in primary care of some fashion (at this point at least). I am not necessarily desiring the osteopathic route I have just been told that I should apply in case no MD schools doors open. Would I be better off just applying to more MD and avoiding DO altogether? I have a 4.0 but yet to take MCAT... recommendations?
  12. primadonna22274

    primadonna22274 Senior Member

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    Happy to see more in the south though which is sadly bereft of DO programs. And yes, glad I will be matching in 2014!
  13. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    Apply to more MD programs.

    Some DO programs are good, but you definitely want an ACGME residency, even in primary care, and DO grads are at a serious disadvantage in the residency hunt.
  14. serenade

    serenade Medical Alchemist

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    Because we all want to be FM doctors in Michigan? Unless the AOA starts opening up new specialty residencies these new schools will be screwing us all majorly. Sigh being class of 2018 will probably not be too sweet for me..
  15. jccalalafc

    jccalalafc

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    so im getting the impression that the shortage of residencies are regarding non-primary care areas/specialties, how is the residencies looking for primary care? you hear everywhere that there is a shortage of primary care physicians, i was wondering about the residency situation about it
  16. Bacchus

    Bacchus PGY Too-many-expectations Moderator

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    I had the "pleasure" of going to a lunchtime meeting with the AOA president today. According to him, something like 800 spots were opened this year. I don't know if this is accurate or not, but it is what he said. He also said many hospitals that have 3rd year osteopathic students are looking to open residencies but I see a problem with CMS just handing over funding. His argument was some of the bills in Washington such as the American Recovery Act and maybe the Affordable Care Act have money set aside for healthcare center funding in addition to resident training.

    I'm hoping someone actually took notes during the meeting and sends us an e-mail; I didn't like his approach of speaking to us so I stopped listening 100%.
  17. 411309

    411309 zzzz Gold Donor

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    so i wonder how strong the in state bias is for alabama? I mean I live in florida. im just a hop, skip and a jump away. Wonder if I should bother applying?
  18. zma21

    zma21

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    With all the great schools you have in your home state, do you really want to be a guinea pig?
  19. DrMediterranean

    DrMediterranean

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    Sounds like he was a very personable guy :laugh:
  20. DocEspana

    DocEspana I shall cast a spell on your roster

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    I could imagine a lot of spots if you take into account that he probably does not mean 800 first year spots, but 800 total spots. Even then, 800 sounds huge. But you actually can track this stuff and the AOA opens like 40 or 45-ish new programs every year. Mostly IM, peds, or FP... yea. But surgery and ortho have opened recently too in areas. and derm and uro are planned soon just around the corner from my school.

    As for the funding? He may know better than I do, but my understanding is he is really chasing a pipe dream/grasping at straws if he thinks the various bills will provide for GME funding. The only thing out there that will provide for GME funding is that one bill sponsored by the florida senator and Chuck Schumer every year... the one that has no funding source and never has had a source of funding (but if it ever did, would actually do a **** ton of good for residencies)

    There are plenty of ways to open new residencies. The GME funding isnt frozen the way you think it is. No program can *expand*. You can always open new programs if you can find new hospitals willing to host them. The difficulty is finding untapped hospitals that actually wish to get into the training business.
  21. Flemon

    Flemon

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  22. DrMediterranean

    DrMediterranean

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    That list actually looks pretty legit. 5 new derm programs, 3 new cards, 5 new ortho, 1 new ENT, 7 new GS, 1 new interventional cards, 1 new rads, 2 new gastroenterology programs, 2 new vascular surger, 1 new MOHS fellowship, lots of new fellowship programs for IM (rheum, addiction med, allergy immun, ID)

    surprised to see that they pretty much created new fellowship programs for almost all IM subspecialties.
    ... seems like they are at least trying to keep up with the increasing number of grads
  23. chiddler

    chiddler

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    As another crappy GPA student, this makes me very happy.
  24. FrkyBgStok

    FrkyBgStok DMU c/o 2016

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    Every DO student is a freaking moron and anyone planning to go to a DO should ashamed. The entire world is laughing at us. Got it. I love how often you come on the osteo forums to remind everyone that. Fist pump.
  25. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    Meh, blame the iOS app. You guys post frequently, so the threads show up frequently in the unread section.

    DO is a valid option, and is probably better than many of the new MD programs (and now definitely better than the Caribbean).

    You're just being dishonest with yourself if you think it doesn't close doors. Even if you are sure you want to go into primary care. You are almost always better off with an MD if you can get it, if you can't or are geographically restricted, go for the DO.

    There are also a bunch of sketchy entities taking advantage of the less strict accreditation requirements to create new DO programs. So caveat emptor.
  26. FrkyBgStok

    FrkyBgStok DMU c/o 2016

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    Please edit your post. I agree with way to much of it for my comfort.

    Its true.
  27. Chiroptile

    Chiroptile

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    Don't feed him, man..
  28. DocEspana

    DocEspana I shall cast a spell on your roster

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    J-Drama is a good guy and made a totally legit point.
  29. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    [​IMG]

    I'm not trolling.

    I'm only going to step in if people are advising premeds to go for DO over MD, or if you say anything non-disparaging about OMM (please don't drag me into that here).

    You aren't doing anyone any favors by telling the OP not to apply to more MD programs over DO programs. Unless you're in Michigan and set on primary care, being a DO closes doors to all but the very top students.
  30. Bacchus

    Bacchus PGY Too-many-expectations Moderator

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    I'm assuming all these subspecialties such as cards, addiction medicine, A&I are indeed fellowships even though residency is in their titles?
  31. Chiroptile

    Chiroptile

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    Maybe so.. Just.. A lot of threads devolve into MD vs DO lately. Would be neat if this one broke the cycle..
    Last edited: 05.02.12
  32. DrMediterranean

    DrMediterranean

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    Yes they are definitely fellowships. They just have a weird way of labeling them.
  33. Bacchus

    Bacchus PGY Too-many-expectations Moderator

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    Which is my major gripe with opporturnities.* I search for programs and I have to delineate internship or residency. That's fine. But then the fellowships are categorized under residency as well. Sigh.

    From that list I see PCOM is starting a reproductive endocrinology and sports medicine fellowship. Interesting. Neither of those have been talked about.
  34. DrMediterranean

    DrMediterranean

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    eh... yeah i can see how annoying that can be :bang:

    howabout when the AOA collectively refers to DO schools as COMs (Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine), but some schools are called SOM in their name (School of Osteopathic Medicine). Or howabout Oklahoma State calls their school "College of Medicine" on their website. :eek:
  35. user3

    user3

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    Yeah, LECOM has "college of medicine" on their site too. And one of my sheets from the interview says "College of Medicine Interview Schedule" or something like that.
  36. Mbeas

    Mbeas Hi I'm Kate

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    Wow, I haven't been to their website since the Fall when I interviewed there and it's changed! Looks pretty good to me :thumbup:
  37. COMedic2Doc

    COMedic2Doc

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    With the new programs opening, all I can say is what's already been echoed. I am glad that I have absolutely no plans to go Caribbean over DO. Seem to remember a guy not too long ago arguing with some of us older or more experienced in the system posters that SGU was a better option, oops.....

    For those reading this is just another reason to absolutely not go Caribbean at the current time. As far as the new programs go, hopefully they'll do a good job with their first class which only time will tell.
  38. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    SGU might still be okay, but definitely none of the others. And only SGU if they thought they could be a superstar there.

    5 years ago I would have said SGU over most of the DO programs, but probably not now. At the moment it's still getting better rotations than many DO programs (and some US MD programs) thanks to bribery, so they may hold onto more residency spots than you'd expect.

    Don't underestimate the power that comes with all that money from people who fail out in the first two years. For someone who is sure he wouldn't be one of them, it could still work.
  39. COMedic2Doc

    COMedic2Doc

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    I would agree that five years ago, SGU would be a decent school. For this year's incoming class, there's much to be worried about. I see the AGME and AOA working hard to address problems that are quite hard to fathom right now in terms of the turnover in healthcare and increased demand for more physicians, so don't know that it's much bribery as much as it is teamwork to get things done.
  40. Temperature101

    Temperature101

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    Caribbean students are gonna take a big hit as far as finding residencies....
  41. donkeykong1

    donkeykong1

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    johnny sorry bro but ur dead wrong here. never go offshore vs. D.O. those rotation sites are still up in the air. :thumbdown:

    courtesy DocE:

    "Offshore Medical Schools
    Medical students who attend LCME/COCA-accredited New
    York State medical schools are very concerned that they may
    not have access to necessary clinical clerkship programs in
    New York Hospitals as a result of Caribbean Offshore
    Medical Schools purchasing increasing numbers of these
    clerkship slots for their students from hospitals in New York.
    In the past, procurement of these clinical clerkship rotations
    by LCME/COCA accredited medical schools for students in
    their clinical years has depended on agreements made
    between the medical schools and the hospital, based not on
    financial transactions, but on providing the highest quality of
    education to the students, thereby ensuring continuation of
    the best medical care for the community served and for the
    United States. For-profit offshore medical schools are not
    required to meet LCME/COCA accreditation standards.
    They are continuing to increase in numbers, so that there are
    more students from these schools each year coming to the
    U.S. and to New York in particular for their clinical training,
    as many of them to not have an affiliation with a local
    teaching hospital in the Caribbean. In order to secure clinical
    rotation sites for their students, these for-profit offshore
    schools are contracting with hospitals in New York to pay in
    excess of $400 per student per week of clerkship experience.
    U.S. medical schools cannot match these amounts and it has
    been estimated that enabling U.S. schools to match the
    amounts paid by offshore schools would require a tuition
    increase of $35,000. The New York City Health and
    Hospitals Corporation has a ten-year exclusive contract with
    St. Georges Medical Schools to send 600 new students per
    year of education into an area that already has difficulty
    accommodating seven U.S. medical schools, and is a very
    desirable site by U.S. medical schools nation-wide.
    LCME/COCA standards are required to be met for
    American medical students to participate in third-year
    clerkships, but for-profit offshore medical schools do not
    have a standardized equivalent system of evaluation for their
    students before they participate in third-year clerkships in
    American hospitals.

    As a result of this, MSSNY will support
    that preference not be given to students from international
    and dual-campus medical schools over students from
    LCME/COCA accredited medical schools for clinical
    clerkship rotations in hospitals or affiliated clinics.

    Moreover, MSSNY is following the meetings of the Advisory
    Committee on Long-Term Clinical Clerkships, created by the
    New York State Education Department, and hopes to be
    able to support the future work of this Committee as it looks
    at the regulations of long-term clerkships and at the
    standards of the off-shore medical school curriculums,
    didactic program outcome measures, clinical program
    outcome measures and faculty constructed exams and
    evaluations. The Advisory Committee will also review and
    make changes in site visits to the off shore medical schools
    to determine whether they will be considered an "approved
    school", which would give them the ability to send their
    students to New York State long-term clinical clerkship
    programs. Approvals will be time-limited and re-site visits
    will occur every 3-5 years."

    "AMA Stance. Already approved by the medical student section. Comes up for debate by the whole AMA in June of this year.

    RESOLVED, That our AMA encourage local teaching hospitals to secure access to clinical clerkship positions for medical students educated in US Liaison Committee on Medical Education/Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation accredited medical schools before allocating positions to medical students from non-accredited schools; and be it further

    RESOLVED, That the AMA oppose extraordinary payments by any medical school for access to clinical rotations."
  42. costales

    costales

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    The osteo thread re SGU rotations for those interested:
    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=902529
  43. group_theory

    group_theory EX-TER-MIN-ATE!' Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    More DO schools?


    Even as a DO (and a mod on SDN in the osteo forum), I'm having a hard time keeping track of all the new DO schools. I used to participate in my residency ranking committee (acgme university program) and I've heard other faculty members (MDs) say "there are so many DO schools I can't even keep track of them" (they were referring to applicants from LECOM-B and VCOM).

    *this is when LECOM-B and VCOM were relatively new schools with only a few graduating classes under their belt

    I fear that in the near-future, as the number of quality applicants remain fixed (for med school), but increase med school spots - the quality of med students will increase in variability (due to acceptance of students who normally would not be accepted). I fear that medical schools, especially DO schools, will fall into tiers like law school, with establish and older schools being in the higher tiers, and new stand-alone schools (in the middle of nowhere) in the lower tiers - and a bloodbath when it comes to getting residency spots. Just like lawyers can be successful coming from a tier 4 law school, so can DOs from these new unknown DO schools ... but I fear that the vast majority of those will have a tough struggle.

    At this point, the bottleneck is residency positions - and with a cost of $100k/year/resident, not sure how many new spots will be created (it's one thing to say you'll create spots, it's another to actually create spots - especially in this economic environments). The hospitals also need to create the appropriate administrative support structure (and staff) for any residency programs, since there are paperwork (and fees) for AOA accreditation (and even ACGME/RRC accreditation)


    Also looking at the list of "new" osteopathic programs - the vast majority are at small community hospitals who may not have the numbers or pathology that trainees need (eventually leading to subpar clinical education).
  44. SoulinNeed

    SoulinNeed

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    You know, that entire list is actually pretty impressive. Hope they keep this up.
  45. titleist975j

    titleist975j Rusty Shackleford

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    i would like to apply to these schools but i cannot find their website.

    does anyone know if they require biochemistry?

    thank you
  46. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    Those are residency/fellowship programs, not schools.

    Take biochemistry. You'll need to understand it for the MCAT, was more valuable than orgo.
  47. titleist975j

    titleist975j Rusty Shackleford

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    i was referring to the 3 new DO schools.

    regarding biochem, i have already graduated. would it be wise for me to just get a biochem text and self study?

    thank you
  48. NeuroLAX

    NeuroLAX Discere faciendo Gold Donor

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    Sure. Here's a good website that I used a lot in undergrad as a supplement to Lehninger's.

    http://themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/

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