Optometry, its all up to you!

[q1we3]

let us compare these two hypothetical recent OD grads

Grad A
has exceptional grades through optometry school,
excellent NBEO scores
residency trained
somewhat of quiet personality
looking for a 9-5 stable full time job
not the most business savvy person
doesn't want to manage staff, do billing, marketing, public speaking etc etc.

Grad B
mediocre grades through optometry school
mediocre NBEO scores
failed to match in residency
business savvy, loves to talk with great personality
understands marketing, public speaking,
knows how to sell himself/herself, services, products

Now in medicine Grad B would make it no where, your grades and USMLE scores will decide if and how you will practice. Also, how much you will make. Your personality is a non factor, you can be the most quiet and anti social surgeon and still have patients lining your doors. Because MD supply is not out of control and demand is getting higher and higher.

Wheres in optometry its the complete opposite, Grad B is more likely to succeed. Nobody cares about your grades. As KHE has said before "I will hire you if you can tell me how you will make us money." Which means how you will get patients. What matters is not grades but instead things like can you speak a second language that can attract a different demographic of patients to a practice. You have to look for patients, you have to make sure patients come to you rather than go to one of hundred ODs practicing across your street. Just like law, you ought to have the ability to market yourself so clients come to you rather than other lawyers.

Fact that matter is on average most PPs are not hiring because there are not enough patients for everyone. But you don't care about everyone. You know people will always need eye exams and glasses you just have to make sure those people come to you. There are PPs who see 30+ patients everyday but there are far more who see 12-15 patients, you have to make sure you are not one of them. Basically you have to put others out of business. There is a reason why the profession is so dividing. ODs are not fond of each other.

Optometry is now a free for all deathmatch, anyone is welcome to try. There are loads of new schools now, 3.0 and 300 oat score will get you in. Just pass your classes, residency is optional, and you will have the license to kill, I mean practice. And people who are the top killers are not necessarily with the best grades but business savvy, marketing type of people. And the sad part is optometry school doesn't teach you any of that.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[KHE]

I would respectfully submit that "grad B" would succeed over "grad A" in 99% of occupations out there.

 

[q1we3]

I would respectfully submit that "grad B" would succeed over "grad A" in 99% of occupations out there.

Fact that matters is students entering optometry are science majors, not business. Schools emphasize GPA and standardized test scores. Giving you the notion that your academic and clinical abilities will decide if you make a successful optometrist. This might be true in medicine but not optometry. The business side of optometry and how to market yourself is not given enough attention.

 

[CL Doc]

Fact that matters is students entering optometry are science majors, not business. Schools emphasize GPA and standardized test scores. Giving you the notion that your academic and clinical abilities will decide if you make a successful optometrist. This might be true in medicine but not optometry. The business side of optometry and how to market yourself is not given enough attention.

A BS personality doesn't guarantee business skills. I suggest Grad B skip optometry school, save the $200,000, and sell used cars or real estate for a living.

 

[Jason K]

Swimmer A: intelligent, good grades, works hard, introverted, non-existent business skills, very good swimming skills

Swimmer B: not so bright, marginal grades, works enough, extroverted, excellent business skills, poor swimming skills

Question: Which of these swimmers is most likely to survive the Titanic sinking?

Answer: Neither, they both drown since they're in ice-cold water without a life boat. Huge bummer for both. Swimmer B did last a little longer since he sweet talked one of the life boat operators, but he was kicked out when a plump red head swam up and asked to get in.

Sadly, they were both warned not to get on the ship. An engineer who designed the ship said quietly, "Hey, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I designed this thing. It sucks - the bulkheads only go up to the C deck. It's not safe. Board at your own risk.

 

[Tippytoe]

Swimmer A: intelligent, good grades, works hard, introverted, non-existent business skills, very good swimming skills

Swimmer B: not so bright, marginal grades, works enough, extroverted, excellent business skills, poor swimming skills.

Ha, ha. I love it!

Optometry is definately a popularity contest. Grades matter absolutely zero after you pass the national board and state exams. From there, you will get patients based on how much you kiss their ass. Plain and simple. They will leave you in a heartbeat over $0.01 difference in your price. They will leave you if they think you looked at them wrong or weren't 'perky' enough. They will leave you if you have the wrong color carpet.

They can do this because there are 10 more ODs down the street willing to see them on a walk-in basis the same day. Patients know they have the upper hand and they abuse ODs all the time and almost dare you to say anything about it. They will abuse your staff even more which will cause you all kinds of headaches because you will be contantly interviewing and hiring new people as the old ones quit every 6-12 months.

If you're not a 'people person' you had better learn to fake it. You DO have to have the marketing skills of a used car salesman or carnival barker. OMDs can get away with having the personality of a tree because they do magical surgeries and give people their vision back. They are gods to most patients. We even have one here that refuses to allow any patients to ask him a question. They are only allowed to ask his techs questions. But........he's a great surgeon so he can get away with it. I like him because my patients have no use for him after their surgery and always come back to me (mostly because I will sit there patiently while they babble about their Aunt Sue's hip replacement). Do I care? Hell no. But I do what I have to do.

Fact is, ODs are simply an obstacle to getting an eyeglass Rx to buy glasses at CheapoVision Mart for most people.

 

[BeesKnees22]

When you say that grades don't matter, how seriously do you mean that? I've always made myself get straight A's, but I'm thinking that I might do better to network a little more...and also have more of a life. I'm not going in thinking that I'll get all A's, but one of my best friends just graduated from pharmacy school, and his grades were pretty bad. He is very smart, but he just didn't like to study. He networked a lot, and got a really, really good job upon graduation. Is optometry similar? I'm thinking of going at optometry school in a completely different way. I'm assuming that it's like most professional schools where anything below a C is considered a failing grade?

 

[Shnurek]

Having good grades won't hurt you. In fact you will be more satisfying to your future patients and you will presumably get sued less often because you will miss less diagnoses. Sure you can scrape by and do the minimum but doing more than the minimum certainly won't hurt you especially if you are shooting for a residency.

 

[Jason K]

Having good grades won't hurt you. In fact you will be more satisfying to your future patients and you will presumably get sued less often because you will miss less diagnoses. Sure you can scrape by and do the minimum but doing more than the minimum certainly won't hurt you especially if you are shooting for a residency.

More assumptions, Shnurek. Having good grades will have absolutely nothing to do with your likelihood of getting sued.

 

[q1we3]

Patients don't care about your grades, what school you went to, if you did a residency, or if you are "board certified". They care about if you accept their insurance, how are your fees, can I come right away, is there big parking lot at the office, is the location nearby.

 

[Optomchick]

Having good grades won't hurt you. In fact you will be more satisfying to your future patients and you will presumably get sued less often because you will miss less diagnoses. Sure you can scrape by and do the minimum but doing more than the minimum certainly won't hurt you especially if you are shooting for a residency.

This is the funniest thing I've read all week. Next time I go to a lawyer, should I bring my transcript?

 

[Shnurek]

This is the funniest thing I've read all week. Next time I go to a lawyer, should I bring my transcript?

What I meant was that the more you know in classes like ocular disease, the more likely you are to make a correct diagnosis when you are in practice. If you prolong getting the patient treatment or prolong referring the patient out or do nothing when you are supposed to do something, that is when lawsuits happen.

 

[KHE]

When you say that grades don't matter, how seriously do you mean that? I've always made myself get straight A's, but I'm thinking that I might do better to network a little more...and also have more of a life. I'm not going in thinking that I'll get all A's, but one of my best friends just graduated from pharmacy school, and his grades were pretty bad. He is very smart, but he just didn't like to study. He networked a lot, and got a really, really good job upon graduation. Is optometry similar? I'm thinking of going at optometry school in a completely different way. I'm assuming that it's like most professional schools where anything below a C is considered a failing grade?

It is similar in the sense that most people will not care about your grades at all once you are done. The question, as always, is "can you make money for this office?"

Networking is great but having a job lined up when you graduate is only good if you can KEEP the job. Keeping the job means making money. Can you do that?

 

[KHE]

A lot of the comments on this thread are a bit over the top. You do not need to have the salesmanship of a "carnival barker" to succeed in this industry. You do not need the business acumen of Donald Trump of Jack Welch to be successful in this industry.

What you need is the ability to create an environment and an experience and deliver results that makes patients enthusiastic about returning and referring family and friends. There are many different ways of doing this depending on your practice environment or the economics of your town.

The example I always think of is Apple. Everytime a new iPhone comes out, there are people lined up literally around the block, camping out overnight in the rain as if they're going to be buying tickets to a Led Zepplin reunion just DYING to sign up for a criminally expensive, long term cell phone contract just to get their hands on that new iPhone despite the fact that the iPhone they are holding in their hands works perfectly well and the new iPhone they are dying to buy likely has only a few improvements over the old one.

Why? Why are people willing to do that? What is about that product or the experience of buying that product which makes people willing to put themselves through that just to get their hands on it.

The other example I always think of is Harley Davidson. I've seen a slew of guys over the years with the Harley Davidson logo tatooed onto their bodies. That's a CORPORATE LOGO and they've FRIGGIN TATTOOED IT ON THEMSELVES. Why? Why do they do that? What is it about Harley Davidson that makes people so enthusiastic about their products and their image that makes people willing to tattoo the corporate logo onto a body?


I'd bet $100 that no one in this universe has the Proctor and Gamble logo tattooed on themselves.

So, while it's highly unlikely that someone is going to camp out in front of your office overnight or will tattoo your practice logo onto themselves, the goal for you as a practitioner is to try to create that same sense of enthusiasm that Apple and Harley Davidson has.

Some people will lament that that is somehow "undoctorly" or that it's not fair that most of our MD bretheren get to treat their patients like crap and still be booked months in advance. We simply can not get away with that and we never will.

But again, I remind everyone of Hyman Roth in the Godfather II when he describes to Michael Corleone the death of a close friend and tells Michael "This is the business we have chosen."

 

[CL Doc]

More assumptions, Shnurek. Having good grades will have absolutely nothing to do with your likelihood of getting sued.

Exactly right...studies show likelihood of getting sued is most related to personality. The more arrogant, the more likely to be sued.

 

[tmoney35]

This thread is the exact reason I majored in business management. There is still money to be made out there, and it's going to go to the ODs that have marketing skills and know how to run an efficient organization.

As cheap as people can be, you can get them to pay more if the perceived value is there. that's why Apple can charge insane prices for an iPhone that's basically the same as the previous year, and why Harley can sell motorcycles that have half the power, but twice the cost of comparable motorcycles from other manufacturers.

Multiple times while I was shadowing, people would come into the offices and say something to effect of, "I usually go to walmart/lenscraft/whatever, but I feel like it's time for me to start going to better eye doctor/more profession practice."

If ODs can market themselves and do a better job of creating that perceived value over corporate optometry, people will pay it.

Also, as saturated as many areas are with optometrists, there are still a lot of places where there is a need. It may not be your dream destination, but it could mean the difference between $70k and $150k or more per year.

 

[KHE]

This thread is the exact reason I majored in business management. There is still money to be made out there, and it's going to go to the ODs that have marketing skills and know how to run an efficient organization.

As cheap as people can be, you can get them to pay more if the perceived value is there. that's why Apple can charge insane prices for an iPhone that's basically the same as the previous year, and why Harley can sell motorcycles that have half the power, but twice the cost of comparable motorcycles from other manufacturers.

Multiple times while I was shadowing, people would come into the offices and say something to effect of, "I usually go to walmart/lenscraft/whatever, but I feel like it's time for me to start going to better eye doctor/more profession practice."

If ODs can market themselves and do a better job of creating that perceived value over corporate optometry, people will pay it.

Also, as saturated as many areas are with optometrists, there are still a lot of places where there is a need. It may not be your dream destination, but it could mean the difference between $70k and $150k or more per year.

Based on your research, where are the areas that you see as being "in need?"

 

[tmoney35]

Based on your research, where are the areas that you see as being "in need?"

Just from personal experience. I grew up in rural Nevada and my father is the only optometrist in a 200 mile radius. Even farther than that in some directions. Granted, most of that is empty space, but there are multiple small towns in that area that could support an optometrist. Northern Utah may be completely saturated, but once you head south, there are TONS of small towns blanketing the state. Plenty of them don't seem to have optometrists. As long as you stayed away from the Salt Lake City/Logan/Provo area in the north and Saint George in the south, you'd be able to find a nice little population to cater to. I'm not as familiar with other states in the region, like Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado and Montana, but they all have huge areas that are very rural and I'm sure you could find prime places to set up shop. I know most people don't want to live rural, which is fine. It's definitely not for everyone, but I grew up in a small town and want to practice in a small town.

I may not have done SWOT analysis and in-depth market research (yet), but just from my own observations from traveling around the wide open west, I've seen many areas that seem like good spots to open a practice.

 

[Jason K]

Just from personal experience. I grew up in rural Nevada and my father is the only optometrist in a 200 mile radius. Even farther than that in some directions. Granted, most of that is empty space, but there are multiple small towns in that area that could support an optometrist. Northern Utah may be completely saturated, but once you head south, there are TONS of small towns blanketing the state. Plenty of them don't seem to have optometrists. As long as you stayed away from the Salt Lake City/Logan/Provo area in the north and Saint George in the south, you'd be able to find a nice little population to cater to. I'm not as familiar with other states in the region, like Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado and Montana, but they all have huge areas that are very rural and I'm sure you could find prime places to set up shop. I know most people don't want to live rural, which is fine. It's definitely not for everyone, but I grew up in a small town and want to practice in a small town.

I may not have done SWOT analysis and in-depth market research (yet), but just from my own observations from traveling around the wide open west, I've seen many areas that seem like good spots to open a practice.

Let's assume you're correct in believing that there are locations that would definitely be in need of an OD, which is not implausible, in certain parts of the country. You're talking about a a very limited number of potential positions - very limited. We will soon have over 2000 new grads leaving school every year. Stop and think about that for a second. We'll have 300 to 400 docs retiring each year, and 2000+ new ODs being added into the system. That's a net increase of around 1600 new, fresh-faced docs who will have nowhere to go, but the local Walgreens. The spots you're referring to could be filled up with one graduating class from a single OD program. In one year, if a significant percentage of Western's next class or Rosenplop's next OD class were to file straight into the available rural positions you're referring to, we'd be done instantly with regard to filling that need.

So, as I've said many times before and will say many times in the future, a few future grads will find their way into a decent, livable spot. The rest will be funneled right into the mouth of the beast - commercial optometry. Unfortunately, it will be that large majority, being forced unwillingly into commercial, that will destroy the profession for everyone.

 

[tmoney35]

Let's assume you're correct in believing that there are locations that would definitely be in need of an OD, which is not implausible, in certain parts of the country. You're talking about a a very limited number of potential positions - very limited. We will soon have over 2000 new grads leaving school every year. Stop and think about that for a second. We'll have 300 to 400 docs retiring each year, and 2000+ new ODs being added into the system. That's a net increase of around 1600 new, fresh-faced docs who will have nowhere to go, but the local Walgreens. The spots you're referring to could be filled up with one graduating class from a single OD program. In one year, if a significant percentage of Western's next class or Rosenplop's next OD class were to file straight into the available rural positions you're referring to, we'd be done instantly with regard to filling that need.

So, as I've said many times before and will say many times in the future, a few future grads will find their way into a decent, livable spot. The rest will be funneled right into the mouth of the beast - commercial optometry. Unfortunately, it will be that large majority, being forced unwillingly into commercial, that will destroy the profession for everyone.

I see what you're saying. I certainly don't think rural optometry is the savior of the profession. Just trying to add a little light to the end of the tunnel from my perspective of where some students could find success. Luckily for me, only a very small percentage of graduates will be willing to move to the sticks.

 

[q1we3]

I see what you're saying. I certainly don't think rural optometry is the savior of the profession. Just trying to add a little light to the end of the tunnel from my perspective of where some students could find success. Luckily for me, only a very small percentage of graduates will be willing to move to the sticks.

You need numbers, the scope of optometry is relatively limited and you will need to attract patients from several rural communities. When you start expanding that radius you will find there are already enough ODs there. Setting up a small clinic in a small rural town might work for a primary physician but not for an OD, need much bigger numbers to generate decent patient flow.

 

[Shnurek]

You need numbers, the scope of optometry is relatively limited and you will need to attract patients from several rural communities. When you start expanding that radius you will find there are already enough ODs there. Setting up a small clinic in a small rural town might work for a primary physician but not for an OD, need much bigger numbers to generate decent patient flow.

Good thing you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Tippytoe]

Good thing you have no idea what you are talking about.

Pa-Leeezzee. Shnurek saying someone else doesn't know what they are talking about. Now that there is funny. Dude is in total denial.

 

[Shnurek]

Pa-Leeezzee. Shnurek saying someone else doesn't know what they are talking about. Now that there is funny. Dude is in total denial.

Are you saying that urban/suburban optometry is more profitable than rural? Medicare gives a 10% bonus to underserved rural communities and Medicaid also helps in certain areas. Not only that but your overall expenses are going to be lower because cost of living/running a business will be slightly cheaper. Not to mention the fact that nearly every veteran OD I talked to has told me to go rural in the beginning. Ophthalmology cannot support itself in certain small towns while optometry can.

 

[Jason K]

Are you saying that urban/suburban optometry is more profitable than rural? Medicare gives a 10% bonus to underserved rural communities and Medicaid also helps in certain areas. Not only that but your overall expenses are going to be lower because cost of living/running a business will be slightly cheaper. Not to mention the fact that nearly every veteran OD I talked to has told me to go rural in the beginning. Ophthalmology cannot support itself in certain small towns while optometry can.

A wounded gazelle can run off to some distant corner of the plains to lessen her chance of being mowed down by a pack of female lions, but in reality, a wounded gazelle is already dead. She just doesn't know it yet.

You can run, Shnurek, but you can't hide from the problems inherent to optometry these days. The problem is, you think the only thing sinking the profession is maldistribution. In reality, that is just one of the many ailments that will bring it to its knees.

 

[q1we3]

Good thing you have no idea what you are talking about.

says the guy who believes optometry students will be doing ophthalmology residencies in the future.

 

[CL Doc]

Are you saying that urban/suburban optometry is more profitable than rural? Medicare gives a 10% bonus to underserved rural communities and Medicaid also helps in certain areas. Not only that but your overall expenses are going to be lower because cost of living/running a business will be slightly cheaper. Not to mention the fact that nearly every veteran OD I talked to has told me to go rural in the beginning. Ophthalmology cannot support itself in certain small towns while optometry can.

Something you need to consider about rural areas is that you don't have as much demand for the higher end optical goods. I know most students don't want to hear this, but optical sales will be over half your gross income.

Your overhead will be less but your gross income per exam will also be less.

In order to succeed in this type of environment you must be fully involved in the community. You can't expect to just to be an OD from 9 to 5. You've got to be imvolved in service clubs, the school board, a patron of every event going on in the area.

Rural practice is not just a job, it's your life.

 

[Shnurek]

Something you need to consider about rural areas is that you don't have as much demand for the higher end optical goods. I know most students don't want to hear this, but optical sales will be over half your gross income.

Your overhead will be less but your gross income per exam will also be less.

In order to succeed in this type of environment you must be fully involved in the community. You can't expect to just to be an OD from 9 to 5. You've got to be imvolved in service clubs, the school board, a patron of every event going on in the area.

Rural practice is not just a job, it's your life.

That's fine with me. I'll go where my services are needed most. As for the optical sales, yes around half the income comes from that but it is going to go down with people selling glasses online and for other reasons. So embrace medical eye care and getting on medical panels.

 

[Jason K]

That's fine with me. I'll go where my services are needed most. As for the optical sales, yes around half the income comes from that but it is going to go down with people selling glasses online and for other reasons. So embrace medical eye care and getting on medical panels.

You think medical reimbursements are going to rise to compensate for the drop in material sales revenue? Those are certain to drop as well, chief - especially if Obamacare is upheld. Do you think, for one second, that the forecasted budget will stand? Has that ever happened with any government program? It'll run massively over budget, they'll need to pull money from somewhere, and that money will come directly from lowered reimbursements to providers. Specialists are taking a 16.9% pay cut over the next three years if Obummercare stands. Primary care docs are just the next in line to pull out their wallets.

Seniors don't like people messing with their health care. If you ever want to see a group of 80 year-olds riot in the streets, just threaten to increase their copay by $5/visit - it's happened. They also don't like increased taxes, so politicians will be much more likely to decrease pay to greedy, rich doctors than increase taxes on their constituency. Like I said before, you can run, but you can't hide from the mess that's been created.

 

[Tippytoe]

. So embrace medical eye care and getting on medical panels.

This sounds much easier than it really is. Trust me. I've been working to do this for 15 years. Many, many patients automatically go to an OMD for anything out of the ordinary with their eyes. Primary care and pediatric doc and most every other MD automatically send patients to OMDs. Why wouldn't they? This is probably 40% of the population that you will never have a chance to see.

The remaining 60% just doesn't have that much eye pathology. I'd guess maybe, at most, 15% of them will have a red eye in their life.

Taking away optical from ODs reduces their income sometimes 50% or more. It is almost impossible to compenstate for this by seeing more red eyes. A red eye visit might equal $40 depending on insurance. An eyeglass sale might net you $200. Glaucoma is a little more profitable. But there are few things more boring than checking IOPs and doing VF in glacuoma patients all day long. And there are glaucoma-trained glaucoma OMD to take care of the serious ones.

Fact is, there simply is not enough eye disease to go around. So if everyone in your class graduates and decides to go and Rx glasses for Walmart, and you go to a rural part of South Dakota (with no stores, theater, recreation leaving your wife and kids bored as hell), you might have a chance with a medical oriented practice but still it's a long shot. And you will have to be comfortable with a $70,000 income.

In case you didn't know, many or most people in rural areas are POOR. Not a judgement, just a fact. Many will have medicaid. Most states pay very little or not at all for medicaid patients. So you will be giving away alot of stuff for free (if you have a heart).

But the problem is most OD students and those that have graduated in the past 20 years think the same as you do. New ODs expect to be treating scleritis and dacryocystitis and diagnosing sarcoidosis and giant cell arteritis all day long, every day. Fact is, you might see one of these conditions once or twice every few years. And by then you will have forgetten about it and just send it to the specialist where the pt should have gone to begin with but didn't know any better.

It would be nice if everyone with an eye disease would come to ODs offices first (for triage if nothing else), but it doesn't happen. Hasn't in over 100 years and not likey to in the future. Without the sale of glasses, we are on the pay scale of nurses. I don't like it and wouldn't care if I never sold another pair of glasses or contact lenses. But to pay the bills, I gotta do it (in addition, a few people still like the one-stop shopping.

So as many of us are telling you, your hopes and dreams do not = Reality!

 

[Shnurek]

(with no stores, theater, recreation leaving your wife and kids bored as hell),

Let me guess, you don't go hiking, camping, making bonfires, BBQing in the woods, ATVing, biking, kayaking, fishing, stargazing and swimming in lakes?

 

[Jason K]

Let me guess, you don't go hiking, camping, making bonfires, BBQing in the woods, ATVing, biking, kayaking, fishing, stargazing and swimming in lakes?

Those things are all great. You know what else is cool? Indoor toilets, restaurants without a drivethru window, hardware stores that have more than once choice of flathead screwdriver, and gas stations that have attendants who aren't named Jethrow or Cleatus. Unfortunately, you're not likely to find too many towns with those attributes that need an OD. I'm sure the dean at grundy is having a metropolis built, complete with indoor plumbing and 8 foot walls to keep out the riffraff.

 

[CL Doc]

That's fine with me. I'll go where my services are needed most. As for the optical sales, yes around half the income comes from that but it is going to go down with people selling glasses online and for other reasons. So embrace medical eye care and getting on medical panels.

It's interesting that as a second year optometry student you think you have insights into the business that have never occurred to the rest of us.

I've been in this business longer than you've been alive. I was practicing "medical optometry" when you were in diapers.

I hope, for your sake, that you really don't believe that this business is all that simple. You've got to sort out the truth from the hype. Maybe all this online swagger and bravado is some kind of defense mechanism. You really should be spending your time learning as much about the real world as you can.

By now you should be learning something about the prevalence of eye disease. There's not enough of it out there to feed all the ODs we currently have practicing, not to mention all the new grads who will be in the market by the time you graduate.

 

[CL Doc]

Those things are all great. You know what else is cool? Indoor toilets, restaurants without a drivethru window, hardware stores that have more than once choice of flathead screwdriver, and gas stations that have attendants who aren't named Jethrow or Cleatus. Unfortunately, you're not likely to find too many towns with those attributes that need an OD. I'm sure the dean at grundy is having a metropolis built, complete with indoor plumbing and 8 foot walls to keep out the riffraff.

I thought Goober ran the gas station.

 

[Jason K]

I thought Goober ran the gas station.

I think after Goober retired from the show, he hired Cleatus and Jethrow to look after the station/store.

 

[Tippytoe]

I think after Goober retired from the show, he hired Cleatus and Jethrow to look after the station/store.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with getting paid in chickens and hogs. Gotta eat out in the sticks where no pizza delivery man will go. Unfortunately, the electric utility and the bank probably won't accept them as legit forms of payment.

What our poor, misguided friend doesn't understand is that there is a reason why the very remote, rural areas don't have doctors. And it's the same reason they don't have Costcos, Olive Garden or Macys. He'll have plenty of time to stare at the stars, go fishing and cook up
an opossum in between his 3 daily patients.

 

[Jason K]

Unfortuantely, the electric utility and the bank probably won't accept them as legit forms of payment.

This is really not all that big of a problem. You can get instructions on the internet detailing how to create a giant animal wheel that will allow you to power your home via cow/dog/goat power. Well, actually, you could probably only generate a few hundred watts per day, so maybe you could run a 40W light bulb for a couple of hours or a DVD player for 15 or 20 minutes. Really, though - who needs lights and DVD players? They're completely over rated in my opinion - candles and shadow puppets are much better.

If this sounds like animal mistreatment and/or you're a PETA member, you can always hook up a giant man-wheel (pictured) or a 12 speed bike to an electromagnet and ride away to all the electric power you'll need. Well, maybe not all of it, but you might be able to fire up the toaster in the morning after a good 30 minute ride. Also, there will be plenty of time during business hours to ride/generate because there will probably only be 2 or three patients on those busy days that really get going. Heck, you could even have the staff ride, that way you'd have power being generated all day long. You'd need to find an-inshape girl for the front desk, so she won't be out of breath when she answers the phone, which could be a turn off for some. Unfortunately, out in the sticks, there tends to be an abundance of "larger gals" so this may be a challenge.

As for the bank substitute - a shoe box, lined with duct tape and marked "Bank," will suffice. Of course, you'll need to invest in an assortment of rigged shotguns and probably a half dozen pit bulls to pepper around the perimeter of your home. I think that would keep out most intruders. You just have to make sure you don't forget where your booby traps are. I heard of one guy who took his own face off with a shotgun booby trap that was meant for intruders. That could really ruin your entire day.

Just some thoughts on the matter.....

 

[tmoney35]

Wow, I'm not sure what your guy's experience is with small towns (maybe just what you see in the movies), but mine actually has a full sized hardware store, indoor toilets and have a couple decent restaurants and even a movie theatre (sometimes...it opens and closes at random), and it is VERY rural. About 4,000 people (depending on how the copper mine is doing) and the closest walmart is a 4 hour drive.

I happen to know that the optometrist there pretty well (he's my father). He days are completely full almost all the time. Even when the copper mine completely closed down for a few years and the town's economy was in the tank, he still stayed pretty busy. He averages around $150k/yr.

I have two uncles that are also optometrists with successful practices in different rural areas. One in Nevada and one in Virginia (he opened it only 2 years ago). Like I said, I don't think rural optometry is the savior of the profession, but for a few students out there who enjoy to small town life, there are opportunities to find a good living.

I appreciate those doctors on here who don't hold back on the realities facing optometry students today. I've talked to a lot of optometrists who share your sentiments, but seriously, sometimes you guys are SO negative it almost seems like you're just trying to chase prospective students away to cut down on some of the competition.

 

[CL Doc]

Wow, I'm not sure what your guy's experience is with small towns (maybe just what you see in the movies), but mine actually has a full sized hardware store, indoor toilets and have a couple decent restaurants and even a movie theatre (sometimes...it opens and closes at random), and it is VERY rural. About 4,000 people (depending on how the copper mine is doing) and the closest walmart is a 4 hour drive.

I happen to know that the optometrist there pretty well (he's my father). He days are completely full almost all the time. Even when the copper mine completely closed down for a few years and the town's economy was in the tank, he still stayed pretty busy. He averages around $150k/yr.

I have two uncles that are also optometrists with successful practices in different rural areas. One in Nevada and one in Virginia (he opened it only 2 years ago). Like I said, I don't think rural optometry is the savior of the profession, but for a few students out there who enjoy to small town life, there are opportunities to find a good living.

I appreciate those doctors on here who don't hold back on the realities facing optometry students today. I've talked to a lot of optometrists who share your sentiments, but seriously, sometimes you guys are SO negative it almost seems like you're just trying to chase prospective students away to cut down on some of the competition.

You have to understand the context of their posts. They are responding to the idea (proposed by someone who lives in New York City, of all places) that all a new grad has to do to be successful is move to a rural community.

I grew up in a small town and enjoy the lifestyle.

 

[q1we3]

You have to understand the context of their posts. They are responding to the idea (proposed by someone who lives in New York City, of all places) that all a new grad has to do to be successful is move to a rural community.

I grew up in a small town and enjoy the lifestyle.

Its not about him. Even few small minority can make it in a rural setting what about the others grads? You have to at the big picture. A doctorate degree that costs 4 years of hard work and a 6 figure loan should not force all 2000 grads to go rural in order to make a decent living. Lets just hope there are no more new schools for a decade or two.

 

[Shnurek]

To all the whiners and moaners: No one put a gun to your head to choose Optometry. Stop being annoying, seriously.

 

[Jason K]

To all the whiners and moaners: No one put a gun to your head to choose Optometry. Stop being annoying, seriously.

Shnurek, your blonde hair appears to be affecting your judgement. Remember, the higher you fly above reality, the further the crash to bottom.

Also, to tmoney, for what it's worth, a town of 4000 is a metropolis in comparison to most of the small towns that do not have an OD in this country.

 

[Tippytoe]

About 4,000 people (depending on how the copper mine is doing) and the closest walmart is a 4 hour drive.

I happen to know that the optometrist there pretty well (he's my father). He days are completely full almost all the time.

THAT's the point. We never said no one should practice in rural areas. We've just been saying that there are ALREADY ODs in most rural areas. Sure your father can do okay with 4,000 people (which is suspect but we'll accept that). But can that little town he's in support another OD? How about 2 more? That would take your father's income from $150,000 to $50,000 (for each of the 3 ODs). Would that be good?

The "go rural" mantra has been preached for over 30 years in optometry. And people did just that. So now we are at a point where every little town of 4,000 people already have at least one OD if not more.

So nothing wrong with rural optometry. It's just not the savior some would lead us to believe. That pond has been fished.

And please cease with the "you're trying to chase people away" silliness. That has been rebunked many times over on this forum.

 

[Tippytoe]

To all the whiners and moaners: No one put a gun to your head to choose Optometry. Stop being annoying, seriously.

You're not allowed to tell us what to do until you are a full grown-up, with hair on your chest and all. At least until you actually graduate, move out of your parents house and fill out a tax form.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Stumbled on this thread....definitely delivered on the lolz

 

[Shnurek]

You're not allowed to tell us what to do until you are a full grown-up, with hair on your chest and all. At least until you actually graduate, move out of your parents house and fill out a tax form.

I think you forgot the 1st amendment chief. I can say what I want. And I moved out in the summer, kthx

And in case you forgot, these forums are called the Student Doctor Network. So don't be an e-thug and personally attack a student just because he/she may disagree with you.

 

[Tippytoe]

I think you forgot the 1st amendment chief. I can say what I want. And I moved out in the summer, kthx

And in case you forgot, these forums are called the Student Doctor Network. So don't be an e-thug and personally attack a student just because he/she may disagree with you.

E-thug. Cute.

I'll quit being an e-thug if you quit being a know-it-all 1st year. Fair?

And you don't disagree with me. You disagree with logic, reason and common sense.

 

[Shnurek]

I'll quit being an e-thug if you quit being a know-it-all 1st year. Fair?

Sounds good.

 

[thecgrblue]

Stumbled on this thread....definitely delivered on the lolz

Thats what keeps me coming back. Now, back to studying.

 

[Optomchick]

I think you forgot the 1st amendment chief. I can say what I want. And I moved out in the summer, kthx

And in case you forgot, these forums are called the Student Doctor Network. So don't be an e-thug and personally attack a student just because he/she may disagree with you.

wait you moved out? what about ALL that money you were saving?? lol Also Optometry school is hell, I can see what you guys mean about not making enough for 4 years of this to be worth it, I have virtually no free time and no social life.