Physical Therapist Considering Med School

[ssor331]

I'm a practicing PT, 28 years old who graduated in 2016. I enjoy PT as a profession and originally pursued it due to my love of exercise, but have recently become more and more interested in medicine. Some of the issues I have with PT include:

- Fairly boring work. I love to see the progress people make but mobing joints and watching/critiquing exercises has already started getting really boring and I've only been out of school for 2.5 years.
- Lack of treatment options. Once you've done some basic screening to rule out anything that warrants referral back to a physician you basically get people moving. Rinse/repeat. For most conditions general exercise with a lot of education and a sprinkling of manual therapy is pretty much the only evidence based option especially when considering pain science and the biopsychosocial model.
- Lack of continued learning. I am currently studying for my Orthopedic Certified Specialist exam which I will take next year but other than board certification the vast majority of the con-ed you can take as a PT is a joke. Lots of con ed is dedicated to learning new manual "techniques" that are not evidence based (effects of MT are non-specific) and I've tried some of these courses and felt they were a colossal waste of time. As an example lots of PTs take up dry needling which is slightly better than placebo at best and possibly worse than sham at best based on which current literature you read.
- Financial success as a PT is determined by patient satisfaction rather than outcome. At least in private practice (hence the emphasis on passive treatment with continuing education options).

I'm hoping that medicine would give me more mental stimulation with practice and enjoyment as a career. If there are currently practicing MDs reading, I wonder if you feel you run into similar issues with medicine (such as feeling it's very repetitive)?

My first question is am I crazy for even considering it? The main barriers for me are my student debt (down to 95,000 from 128,000) and the time commitment to go to medical school at 28. If I were to go into a field that interests me (such as ortho or cardiac electrophysiology as examples) I'd be looking at around a decade of further training. With student debt and missing out on 80,000 or so per year in PT salary i'd be looking at 800,000 to 1,000,000 in lost wages during that time. I'd make it up in the course of my lifetime but it'd make for some bleak 30s after spending most of my 20's in school. I'm also married and worry it would be hard on my wife.

My second question is whether most allopathic schools would consider me. I have a 3.65 undergrad GPA and a 3.4 PT school GPA. I've taken 2 semesters of physics, 2 semesters general chem, 1 semester o-chem and 1 semester biochem along with various human and exercise physiology courses. I haven't taken the MCAT yet but if decide to take the plunge plan to study for part of next year before taking it and applying.

Thank you all for your time

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Musculo]

Hello! I'm a fellow PT and I know where you're coming from. I'm 9 years into PT and recently decided to apply to medical school. I'm applying this current cycle, so the jury is out if I will be successful just yet. I did apply both MD and DO as in general, DO schools would look with more favor on our training as a PT. Not that MD won't but I don't think it will be as favorable.

Do you get a variety of diagnoses in your clinic? Vestibular or neurological in addition to orthopedic? There is a ton of validated research for treatments for conditions other than orthopedic. Maybe you're in a clinic without a good variety of patients. As for the monotony, there is monotony in every profession. I've worked in all settings except for schools, and that's probably what has helped with my boredom as a PT the most. In each setting, it's new and dynamic, but after a while you learn the ropes and you have to find ways to challenge yourself. Have you considered academics, teaching continuing ed, podcasts or other social media outreach, community exercise classes or giving community talks?

I guess I'm getting a vibe from your post that you're more running from PT than running to medicine. Schools will sniff that out and not look favorably on that at all (from what I've heard/read). Plus there are a ton of things you can do more lucrative than go back to med school and still utilize your current PT degree. If you're good with business, climb the ranks and go into the management side. Trend it toward home health right now also. As for your grades, I can't specifically comment, but definitely research schools and the MCAT and that will give you a better sense if you are competitive. From what I've seen, you would stand a chance with DO schools at least. Hard to say with no MCAT. Good luck! It took me a while and a lot of courage to continue on this course. I've tried talking myself out of it many nights!!

 

[Bruster]

I'm also a PT that made the plunge into medicine. I had been practicing for 5 years when I decided to apply to med school, and am currently 3 months into my first year at a MD school. I'm 30 now, and was 28 when I decided to start the application process.

I had some of the same concerns about whether to apply that you do, and one of the best things I did to solidify my decision was to spend time shadowing some physicians in fields that I was interested in. They were able to be really honest with me about what they liked and disliked about their jobs. My GPA was similar to yours. I applied to 14 schools (all MD), interviewed at 2, and was accepted at 1.

If you do decide to apply, be prepared for questions about burnout. It came up in both of the interviews I did. I actually loved my career as a PT, but I just kept finding myself drawn back to medicine as I considered my longterm career plan and what best aligned with the things that kept my brain occupied. Unfortunately, in my first interview the physician interviewing me told me directly that I was burned out from my job as a physical therapist and that was why I was applying to medical school. She told me this within 30 seconds of me sitting down with her and I was never able to recover.

I don't know if this is helpful information for you, but so far I am super happy with my decision! I feel like my personality and interests fit well with the community that I have just entered. That being said, it has also been an all-consuming decision, and the time/money investment is huge.

 

[curbsideconsult]

My first question is am I crazy for even considering it?

Of course you are. We all are. You'd be in good company.

I'm hoping that medicine would give me more mental stimulation with practice and enjoyment as a career. If there are currently practicing MDs reading, I wonder if you feel you run into similar issues with medicine (such as feeling it's very repetitive)?

Not a doc yet, just a third year, but I'm already finding most of outpatient medicine to be redundant and boring. The inpatient stuff is great so far. I think, though, just about anything can be routine and dull if you don't like it. For example (not a great one, but an example nonetheless), I have a morning coffee ritual that I've had for a number of years. It's more or less the same thing every morning but it doesn't get old with me because I absolutely love coffee. So, yes, I think medicine can get just as repetitive as PT if you end up in a career or a place you don't like.

With student debt and missing out on 80,000 or so per year in PT salary i'd be looking at 800,000 to 1,000,000 in lost wages during that time.

It's actually more like missing out on $500k because you get paid during training.

I've taken 2 semesters of physics, 2 semesters general chem, 1 semester o-chem and 1 semester biochem along with various human and exercise physiology courses.

If your sGPA is also around 3.65, you'll be fine depending on your MCAT score. You still need another semester of o-chem, 2 semesters of bio, and maybe some stats or calc depending on where you want to apply.

I'm also married and worry it would be hard on my wife.

^^^I think this is the most important consideration of all.

Some other general considerations:

• Keep in mind the new MCAT has a lot of psych/soc in it and you might want to consider taking psych and soc
  
• Be wary of premed advisors. You're better off consulting SDN before you make any major decisions regarding anything med school
• You probably should shadow a primary care doc for a few hours to see if you really want to do medicine
• You need to start volunteering if you're not doing so already
• Have you thought about going to PA school instead?

 

[ssor331]

Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate the insights.

Do you get a variety of diagnoses in your clinic? Vestibular or neurological in addition to orthopedic? There is a ton of validated research for treatments for conditions other than orthopedic. Maybe you're in a clinic without a good variety of patients.

I treat mostly ortho but a decent amount of neuro (BIG therapy for Parkinson's, some MS, some TBI, some SCI, some CVA) and appreciate the variety but also find these cases get pretty repetitive pretty fast. I find vestibular to be interesting but only get occasional cases.

Have you considered academics, teaching continuing ed, podcasts or other social media outreach, community exercise classes or giving community talks?

I've thought a little about this, and have given some community talks. Teaching may be interesting. The problem is finding teaching jobs.

I guess I'm getting a vibe from your post that you're more running from PT than running to medicine. Schools will sniff that out and not look favorably on that at all (from what I've heard/read). Plus there are a ton of things you can do more lucrative than go back to med school and still utilize your current PT degree. If you're good with business, climb the ranks and go into the management side. Trend it toward home health right now also. As for your grades, I can't specifically comment, but definitely research schools and the MCAT and that will give you a better sense if you are competitive. From what I've seen, you would stand a chance with DO schools at least. Hard to say with no MCAT. Good luck! It took me a while and a lot of courage to continue on this course. I've tried talking myself out of it many nights!!

I'll admit there may be some truth to this. It's not that I outright dislike PT, there are aspects I enjoy such as the problem solving aspect of evaluations. I just don't like how repetitive treatment gets. The problem with evals is you only get maybe 3 per day. I was hoping that maybe some specialties in medicine would be more like that for the majority of practice. Perhaps this just isn't the case. I also have done a little bit more of the "rank climbing" with an old job but unfortunately didn't like how slimy it made me feel. I think I was more unhappy as a clinic manager than I am as a staff PT due to expectations to keep numbers high regardless of what patients need (along with pressure to utilize support staff more than they should). Thank you for your insight!

I had some of the same concerns about whether to apply that you do, and one of the best things I did to solidify my decision was to spend time shadowing some physicians in fields that I was interested in. They were able to be really honest with me about what they liked and disliked about their jobs. My GPA was similar to yours. I applied to 14 schools (all MD), interviewed at 2, and was accepted at 1.

If you do decide to apply, be prepared for questions about burnout. It came up in both of the interviews I did. I actually loved my career as a PT, but I just kept finding myself drawn back to medicine as I considered my longterm career plan and what best aligned with the things that kept my brain occupied. Unfortunately, in my first interview the physician interviewing me told me directly that I was burned out from my job as a physical therapist and that was why I was applying to medical school. She told me this within 30 seconds of me sitting down with her and I was never able to recover.

I don't know if this is helpful information for you, but so far I am super happy with my decision! I feel like my personality and interests fit well with the community that I have just entered. That being said, it has also been an all-consuming decision, and the time/money investment is huge.

Wow thanks for the insight, especially about burnout questions during interviews. It's not that I'm burnt out per-se, more just bored with my current career and wondering if there are better fits out there. What sort of physicians did you shadow? I am planning to do this as well to get a good idea of if it would even be more interesting/enjoyable for me compared to PT.

Not a doc yet, just a third year, but I'm already finding most of outpatient medicine to be redundant and boring. The inpatient stuff is great so far. I think, though, just about anything can be routine and dull if you don't like it. For example (not a great one, but an example nonetheless), I have a morning coffee ritual that I've had for a number of years. It's more or less the same thing every morning but it doesn't get old with me because I absolutely love coffee. So, yes, I think medicine can get just as repetitive as PT if you end up in a career or a place you don't like.

I see, yeah and this thought has crossed my mind about PT as well. Maybe shadowing some physicians will give me a better idea of whether my "coffee" is in medicine instead.

Some other general considerations:

• Keep in mind the new MCAT has a lot of psych/soc in it and you might want to consider taking psych and soc
  
• Be wary of premed advisors. You're better off consulting SDN before you make any major decisions regarding anything med school
• You probably should shadow a primary care doc for a few hours to see if you really want to do medicine
• You need to start volunteering if you're not doing so already
• Have you thought about going to PA school instead?

I have psych and soc classes both in undergrad and grad school. Is there other specialties you would recommend to shadow in addition to primary care? Where did you volunteer? I thought about PA school, my main concern with PA is the thought of always being managed by a physician. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as I think it might. I've had ex-bosses in the past in PT who tried to micromanage how I practiced (luckily my current boss is great) and the thought of being stuck with this as a PA is not appealing.

Thank you all again

 

[Bruster]

I shadowed a neurointensivist, an orthopedic surgeon, and a family medicine physician. The orthopod was an engaging person and fun to shadow, but his actual day-to-day was relatively homogenous compared to the other two.

 

[curbsideconsult]

I have psych and soc classes both in undergrad and grad school. Is there other specialties you would recommend to shadow in addition to primary care? Where did you volunteer? I thought about PA school, my main concern with PA is the thought of always being managed by a physician. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as I think it might. I've had ex-bosses in the past in PT who tried to micromanage how I practiced (luckily my current boss is great) and the thought of being stuck with this as a PA is not appealing.

Aside from primary care, you should shadow specialties you're interested in.

I volunteered with hospice, a library, and an elementary school. You should do volunteer work that you find interesting and serves the needy/poor.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I have psych and soc classes both in undergrad and grad school. Is there other specialties you would recommend to shadow in addition to primary care? Where did you volunteer? I thought about PA school, my main concern with PA is the thought of always being managed by a physician. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as I think it might. I've had ex-bosses in the past in PT who tried to micromanage how I practiced (luckily my current boss is great) and the thought of being stuck with this as a PA is not appealing.

Thank you all again

If you think bosses go away because you're a physician, you've been misinformed. You will have more senior attendings around, chief of your department, the medical director, the CEO of the hospital, etc all just the same. The exception is if you go into private practice (which you can do as a PT already or as a PA), and even then you'll have insurance companies, etc.

With that said - you mentioned interest in ortho and cardiac electrophysiology. Both of these are competitive, and one is a 2nd fellowship without guarantee of even the first fellowship. And once you go down one of the rabbit holes its hard to get out. Physician spot in the match aren't all that vast, and if you end up in a field that doesn't lead to the fellowships you want (due to any potential unforeseen circumstance, then you're relatively stuck).

PA probably isn't nearly as bad as you think it is. You're also looking at 2 years of school/training compared to 9 with ortho or 11-13 for cardiac electrophysiology (4 years med, 3 years IM, 3 years cards, 1-3 years electrophysiology - not sure if this is 1, 2 or 3 years but probably 2). PA, you could work in both of those fields and more at the same time, jump around, and have a lot more lateral mobility than with being a physician.

The age is a non-issue, but the reason I'm shedding light in the way I am is due to your own concerns and interests. You already have a graduate degree and career, you have a wife who is of concern, and PA is less debt, less time in school/net losses, and you have more control over what you end up doing, even if there is some vertical limitations, but this is often overcome by a slight difference in lifestyle that is possible as a PA more so than other fields.

Don't rule it out over "bosses" because, again, unless you are in private practice and the CEO of the insurance company you patients use, there will almost always be someone above you bossing you around (I say this somewhat loosely and with a little sarcasm).



Side note: have you worked with any PM&R physicians as a PT? You're pretty uniquely qualified for that if you have interest in doing more procedural stuff within a field you're already involved in. Additionally, if you work to maintain your PT status/license/etc, you also have potential to be much more comprehensive in your ability to treat patients if you were to go into PM&R be is as a physician or PA.

Food for thought.

 

[ssor331]

If you think bosses go away because you're a physician, you've been misinformed. You will have more senior attendings around, chief of your department, the medical director, the CEO of the hospital, etc all just the same. The exception is if you go into private practice (which you can do as a PT already or as a PA), and even then you'll have insurance companies, etc.

With that said - you mentioned interest in ortho and cardiac electrophysiology. Both of these are competitive, and one is a 2nd fellowship without guarantee of even the first fellowship. And once you go down one of the rabbit holes its hard to get out. Physician spot in the match aren't all that vast, and if you end up in a field that doesn't lead to the fellowships you want (due to any potential unforeseen circumstance, then you're relatively stuck).

PA probably isn't nearly as bad as you think it is. You're also looking at 2 years of school/training compared to 9 with ortho or 11-13 for cardiac electrophysiology (4 years med, 3 years IM, 3 years cards, 1-3 years electrophysiology - not sure if this is 1, 2 or 3 years but probably 2). PA, you could work in both of those fields and more at the same time, jump around, and have a lot more lateral mobility than with being a physician.

The age is a non-issue, but the reason I'm shedding light in the way I am is due to your own concerns and interests. You already have a graduate degree and career, you have a wife who is of concern, and PA is less debt, less time in school/net losses, and you have more control over what you end up doing, even if there is some vertical limitations, but this is often overcome by a slight difference in lifestyle that is possible as a PA more so than other fields.

Don't rule it out over "bosses" because, again, unless you are in private practice and the CEO of the insurance company you patients use, there will almost always be someone above you bossing you around (I say this somewhat loosely and with a little sarcasm).



Side note: have you worked with any PM&R physicians as a PT? You're pretty uniquely qualified for that if you have interest in doing more procedural stuff within a field you're already involved in. Additionally, if you work to maintain your PT status/license/etc, you also have potential to be much more comprehensive in your ability to treat patients if you were to go into PM&R be is as a physician or PA.

Food for thought.

All good points. The thought of going through 10 years of training to end up in a similar situation as I'm currently in is not what I want. Good call on PM&R, I'll have to find one to shadow. Maybe a couple PAs as well (maybe PM&R PA combined with PA would give me the variety that I'm craving).

Thank you all again

 

[MusicDOc124]

It just might, and it would condense your time in school, limit debt, etc. Start to reach out to see if any PAs out there are in PM&R. Don't be discouraged if you don't readily find any. Not many people even know what PM&R is, even in medicine lol, but with a PT background you'd likely be able to land a gig as a PA in PM&R. Its certainly worth looking into at least.

 

[CCiccarelli2014]

I can honestly, say the same thing has happened to me and I am quite interested in Med School as well - fears are exactly the same.

 

[GrkRenaDPT]

Hi guys! I’m new here, and actually joined because of coming across these posts. Same boat 100% — graduated PT in 2013 and am looking to apply to med school. I’ve had the inclination numerous times over the years but kept talking myself out of it. How is it going for you guys? Any luck since you last posted?

 

[pabcww1939]

Hi all! I am a DPT applying in the current application cycle for medical school. Just finished up organic I and II and am taking the MCAT in May/June. I am curious how everyone handles the questions in interviews regarding the switch from DPT to MD. What ways have you guys conveyed that you are passionate about pursuing medicine without bashing your current career? I certainly have never hated being a PT, but I don't think any of us would be here if we were 100% passionate about the profession of PT... Anyone run into any issues with interviews about this topic? Anyone have success, or been able to successfully convey the benefits of having our background knowledge without seeming like you're running away from it?

 

[Musculo]

Current OMS1 here. Transitioning from PT to MD/DO was definitely brought up in all of my interviews. I read advice on SDN that was spot on: focus on why you are going TO MD/DO and avoid making it look like you are running from PT. While increased autonomy, pay, and being the team leader are all true, I would avoid mentioning these at all costs. What I said instead were things like more primary care physicians would increase access to all types of healthcare, not just PT, for underprivileged or rural communities. My application essay also focused on what issues I saw in these communities as a PT and how I felt I could make more change with those same issues if I was a physician instead of a PT.

Since I’m in a DO school my background as a PT was a definite advantage and just discuss how having a background as a PT allows you to holistically look at a patient, similar to the tenants of DOs.

Good luck in your application cycle!