Please help, I need some advice. I made a huge mistake.

[Chrisebril1]

Even if you can't offer advice, I am having some major panic attacks because of this, and need some reassurance or guidance.


I know it's long, and I am sorry, I just want to give you guys a full picture for some input.

I am a 23 year old male. Graduated from the University of Florida in June 2010 with two bachelors degrees. One in Biology and one in Psychology.

My AMCAS calculated GPA
Freshmen running
Overall 3.074
BCPM 3.067
Sophomore running
Overall 3.27
BCPM 3.20
Junior running
Overall 3.27
BCPM 3.27
Senior running
Overall 3.45
BCPM 3.35

This is some background to give you an idea of where I am coming from, and what led me to the problem I am facing now... If you are willing to help me with some advice, but refuse to read all of it, you can skip this, I guess.

Time line (you will see a pattern of indecisiveness and 'settling').

1. I started college as a Biology major planning on getting into medical school. I didn't realize how hard it was at that point. I did rather poorly my freshman year as you can see from my grades. I have excuses, many of the classes I didn't show up for, I didn't do what was asked of me (assignments), I didn't study for the big test classes, and I was severely unprepared for "composition 1". I was producing F work at the start, but I improved to earn a B+ in the class. (I got an A in Comp 2). I had bad habits from high school which I carried over to college. Constantly oversleeping classes. Please know, I fixed all of those problems. I also have/had ADHD, which caused me so many problems on tests, and assignments. I would constantly make careless mistakes and read questions to quickly, missing important parts like the word "not". I was also VERY lazy. I didn't party or drink or do many of the things normal college students did, but I had no motivation to go out and volunteer. I refused to even try to get a job. So lazy…
2. I took general chemistry (5 hour class) over the summer. That was hell. Constant careless mistakes and no study method. I ended up getting a B.
3. Sophomore year, Fall rolled around, and I made minor improvements. At this point, I had decided to transfer to a different 4 year university. I was currently at USF. I still had terrible study techniques, and I constantly overslept morning classes. ADHD, crushed me on standardized exams and I was still lazy. I managed to pick myself up and go and volunteer at a Hospital ER. I ended up getting ~ 70 volunteer hours there. I took Calc 1, and got a C+. (I didn't study and made so many mistakes on the tests).
4. I asked them to confer an AA and I transferred to UF. Same major, Chemistry.
5. I signed up for two summer classes (Genetics and Organic Chemistry). I ended up withdrawing for Organic Chemistry, because I had yet to fix any kind of drive to study. I didn't study, for any classes, really ever. That didn't work for Organic chemistry and it hit me like a sack of bricks, and I ended up getting a high D on the first exam, which curved up to a B or something. I don't remember. So I withdrew from Organic chemistry. I stayed in Genetics, but still, did average, and got a B+. I knew the material, just from retention from class and reading the slides (I never ever sat down and "studied"). On the tests, "trick questions" and quick reading (symptoms of ADHD), kept me from getting a score that reflected my understanding. At this point, I finally got motivated, because I realized time to apply was fast approaching, so I joined AED, and I joined a small tutoring organization, where I spend a hour or two a week, holding office hours and tutoring students. I barley made it past the GPA restrictions for both, (3.2) at the time. Fall rolled around, and I took Organic Chemistry and Physics at the same time. I also took a upper level Biology course and Spanish. I got an A in Organic Chemistry (I started to "learn" how to study), a B in Physics, a C+ in Spanish and a B+ in the biology class. Spanish crushed me, because of the way the grading was setup. Everything was based on at home assignments, which I was too lazy to do. I missed a good 10% of my grade just from missed assignments. Plus the teacher sucked. The next semester came, Organic chemistry 2 (B+) Physics 2 (B) and an A- in Spanish. I also took Bio Statistics and got an A. That ended up dropping my overall GPA down. Somehow my BCPM GPA went up, but overall went down. 4 hour Spanish class C+… I spent the entire semester doing things in AED, and tutoring. I also contacted a professor I took a class with my Fall semester, and asked about doing research. He had me work in his lab, off the books for this semester. I enjoyed it, and he offered me a research seat. (He studied a strain of HIV). Now I realized I was way behind on applying to medical school. I hadn't even started studying for the MCAT.
6. Summer senior year rolled around, and I started doing real research in the lab. My first senior year, I did on par with the rest of my grades. Got a 3.3 GPA. I had realized my GPA was very low, and I had little ECs that Medical school wasn't an option. Being lazy, I thought of alternative routes, and planed on graduate school. I then realized how little they are paid, so I thought law school. I went to the law advisor, talked to him, and signed up for the LSAT. I got a few books for it, and studied a little, but not really. I ended up getting a 165 on the LSAT, and sent out a few applications. I got a LOR from my research PI and my Organic Chem 1 teacher. I got into a few law schools, but had a change of heart. I decided to stay at UF a extra year, and take the MCAT in May and apply. Most of that jumping around occurred between the summer and early fall. I signed up for a MCAT course in November, and took it till June. I was so lazy, and didn't do any practice tests, I only did maybe 10% of the practice problems, and skipped a lot of the classes. I took the MCAT and did really poorly. A 25. Now this was in May when I took it. I had started summer classes and got my MCAT score. The stress was clearly getting to me, I ended up gaining ~ 70 lbs. I was up to 240 lbs. About the research, I ended up doing 3 full semesters of research. One unofficial, and two official. My first semester was Spring of my Junior year, then I did Summer my 4th year, then I did Fall my fouth year. At that point, I was done with the research and I was offered a lab tech / manager position in the lab. It was rather strange how it was conferred. The post doc said, "you want to be a lab manager". At first I didn't want to. I was getting tired of research. She told me it was paid, and the hours required. I eventually accepted. I did that for an entire semester then stopped.
7. When I got my MCAT scores, I had already started my 5th year at the school, and decided I could take enough Psychology classes to get a second degree in Psychology. Figured that was the best option, other than just taking classes for no degree. My plans were shot. Medical school wasn't an option with that MCAT score, and things were tough as is with low GPA and lack of ECs and clinical experience, and it was either finish off this year and try to study for the MCAT again next May. I decided against it. I had finally caved and said, I'll settle for a PhD. I took the GRE, and did well enough to get into a mid tier PhD program in Neuroscience. I finished off my 5th year, still tutoring (did that every semester), active in AED (no leadership) and I shadowed one physician for 35 hours (basically matched his schedule, came in when he came in, and left when he left for an entire week). I also took on a undergraduate research position in a Clinical psychology lab my Fall and Spring semester of my 5th year. Now, over this fifth year, taking only Psychology classes, I ended up pulling a 4.0GPA Summer, Fall and Spring. What I think happened was, at the end of my 4th year, I took Biochemistry, and fell into a very effective study method. Now, at the beginning of Biochem, I pulled only B's on the tests, but I started studying with this new method half way through and all the other grades were A's. I got a B+. I used that study method in all my Psychology classes over my 5th year, and did phenomenal. I was top five in almost every class, with class size of >100. For the first time in college, I was actually getting emails from teachers, asking me directly if I wanted to work in their lab and do research, citing my work in the class. So like I said, I took the GRE (didn't do too well, because of the ADHD) and lack of study (got a 1130), asked for LORs from my Biology research PI, a post doc I worked with, and a Biomedical physics professor I ended up getting first in his class in. I am not sure how it happened, but while interviewing, after asking myself, how did I even get an interview here with my low GPA and low GRE. Two separate interviewers said, "your LORs were excellent, and you made a very good decision with who you asked". I was accepted to a few schools, all offered stipend. Nothing special there. It looked good. I would get paid, to get a PhD. I took the summer off from school and worked for my father. So at this point, I had two bachelors degrees (Biology and Psychology, minor in Chemistry and Physics), Three semesters of tutoring undergraduates, 5 semesters of research (3 in a Biology wet lab, 2 in a clinical psychology lab), a semester of working as a lab tech/ manager. 70 Hours of volunteering in a ER. 35 hours of shadowing experience. I also did several short term volunteering things like relay for life and events for AED. I did end up getting some leadership (I think) my last semester at UF, when, given the fact that I was in the tutoring organization for 3 years, and it is the departments "official undergraduate organization" and I became well known by the advisers and department director, that they recruited me to sit on the academic dishonesty and grade review board.
8. The summer went by, and I started graduate school. I started off fine, found some really good labs to rotate in, and made myself look good to the PIs. The first lab I rotated in, even told the program director he was really pleased with how I was performing in the lab. I also contacted the local youth outreach program and they recruited me to be a program director. (I assume it had something to do with my Psychology degree, but I don't know). So I am a director in that right now. I have been doing three months of research in my first PIs lab. He does translational research with Parkinsons disease. I had a major change in heart. I originally took the PhD seat, PLANNING on going to medical school when I got out. I realized that was highly suggested against. I didn't heed the warnings.
9. I started to crack around 3 weeks into November when I started rotating. I realized this was a very backwards way at getting into medical school. The scheduling here is so intense, it is tearing me apart. I am under so much stress, I am actually in physical pain. I am up at 6:30 every morning and in class at 7:00. I am either taking a class, or am teaching one, but regardless I am on campus in a class from 7-10am, then I hop in my car, and drive 20 minutes to my first rotation PI's lab. I usually have to eat crackers while I am driving, because I don't get time to stop because I have to be in his lab a minimum of 25 hours a week. I am there till 5pm every day, at which point I come home. I usually go to the gym after that (remember I said I gained a bunch of weight, I ended up losing most of that while I was pulling straight A's in my 5th year). Maybe the exercise helped I don't know. I run almost 30 miles a week now, so I am in the gym for a good hour and half every day. I then come home and study, or head up to the outreach office and do work there. I usually can't finish my work (reading around 10 full length journal articles a week, experimental design, studying for the cumulative class first year students have to take). I am being crushed. Not only that, but I don't want to do research. I like the topic, of studying Parkinson's disease, and I like to read about it, but I am miserable doing the research.
10. I decided (only 3 weeks into the rotations in the program) that I want out of the PhD program. I was planning on trying medical school again anyway and thought a PhD would guarantee me entrance. I called the program director and talked to him. He told me, switching out of the PhD program to the masters program could result in my losing my assistantship next year. I was given a GTA when I came here, and I teach a couple lab classes ~ 15 hours a week. I didn't like the possibility of losing my GTA, and he and I came up with the plan to finish off the year, then in June make a decision to switch to the masters program. There are two masters programs here, one with research and one without. The one with research comes with a chance at getting a stipend. I became dependent on my stipend. It is my living. I was having a hard time focusing in the lab, so I finally went to a psychiatrist and was tested for ADHD. He found I had it, and prescribed me medication to treat it. The effects have been outstanding. I feel so much better with them. When I am under the meds effect, I lose that "laziness" and I can actually focus for more than 15 minutes. After talking to the program director, I hunkered down and endured for another month and a half. I kept doing good work for my first rotation PI. As much as it was killing me, I was fulfilling my obligations to him, myself (volunteering) and the school (classes and teaching). I am only getting around 4-5 hours of sleep a night now because of this. The thing is, I am planning on starting to study for the MCAT in November, or December and taking it 4 months later. I think with my medication I can conquer the task of studying for it, and performing well on it.
11. I recently went to talk to my second rotation PI, and found out, he is going to demand even more from me. 35+ hours in the lab a week, reading ~ 6 journals and preparing a presentation for my article two times a week for journal club. I smiled and took it trying to make myself look good. But I snapped inside. I realized I can't do another rotation, doing research (which I hate), spending all this time, on something I don't want to do (get a PhD), when all I really want to do is go to medical school. The only reason I am still in the PhD program now is the money. At first I thought I would just drop down to research masters and maybe get a stipend and get a masters, but I can't stand the research. Plus I am going to have to study for the MCAT.
12. I feel like my best option is to, call the program director and tell him, I want out of the PhD program, I can't finish the rotations, and go non thesis. He mentioned that this was an option when I first talked to him, when I told him, "I don't think I want to do research as a career". He told me, "if you are sure you want out, you don't have to finish the rotations". The stress is killing me. No free time, to even crack a MCAT book. The only reason I was able to type this up, is because I was told I didn't need to come into the lab today, because they were moving a lot of the stuff. I feel like, if I am going to go try and take advantage of my new found grasp on life that this medication to treat my ADHD has given me, I can't be obligated to carry out 35 hours of research in the lab, and another 20-30 hours of work at home just to prepare for 4 hour journal clubs. I like the science behind it, but I can't continue to spend hours pipetting, further reducing my chances at getting into medical school.

Important stuff below pertaining to the problem at hand...

If I switch out of the PhD program, I defiantly lose my stipend support starting Fall next year. There is a chance; they will not bring me on as a GTA Spring and Summer next semester. Meaning I could lose my stipend support for the rest of this year. I can take out student loans (I already am offered 10,000$ for Spring semester from Federal loans). I am also considering the fact that I may need to get a job, before I take the chance at giving up my stipend.

Any advice on dropping down from a PhD program to a non research masters program, giving up my stipend/ tuition support, to give myself free time to try and get into medical school over this next year while removing the stressful research that is slowly killing me.

I feel like I made a total mistake coming to this PhD program, knowing full well, I still wanted to go to medical school. I let me laziness and poor grades turn me away from something I enjoyed. (as little of it as there was, I really enjoyed my time shadowing that physician, and I really enjoyed volunteering in the ER). I truly hope the ADHD diagnosis and treatment can put me in a position to earn a respectable score on the MCAT, so I can apply this upcoming June. I want to take the MCAT in April. That is right at the time when I would be doing my 3rd rotation, and have to decide whether or not I want to stay in the PhD program, or switch. I would have very little time to prepare for the MCAT and do things required of me to even have a shot at getting into medical school (shadow a physician and get more clinical experience) if I stay in these rotations. If I say "I want to just go research masters" all I do is get out of the rotations, but I am still in research. It's just with one professor for a extended period of time, instead of two more.

I am trying to weight out whether or not I am making a good decision. I am trying to minimize any negative repercussions.
Options

1. Staying in the PhD program till June then switching out to research masters, allows me to keep my stipend (18,000$, plus insurance) I get another 6 months of research experience, guaranteed another semester of teaching experience. But I lose a good 60+ hours from my week. There is a chance I get a stipend the next year, because I do research in a lab. There is a chance the PI can't afford me, and I have to pay myself anyway.
   1. Note, I hate the research, and I am miserable doing it.
2. Staying in the PhD program till June then switching to non research masters. Everything is the same as above, but there is no chance of me getting support next year. I am paying for the tuition (~3000$) and health insurance myself.
3. Switching to research masters now, I end up doing a research thesis in the lab I am in now, and there is a chance I don't get to keep my stipend. I also may lose my GTA.
   1. There are so many things that could happen with this option, and I still end up having to spend 60+ hours of my week, working on the research.
4. Switch to non thesis masters right now. I am guaranteed to lose my stipend and support next year (the only way to guarantee I am supported is by being a PhD student, because some research masters lose support too). I have a chance at losing my support for Spring and Summer of 2010 and 2011. But there is a chance I keep them both, because I am already a GTA. They "gave" me this package when I came here, and the only obligation I have is be a full time student and "teach". I can understand why they could take it away, but I also think I may keep it. They would have to find new teachers for take my spot. It seems like the assistantships are offered to the incoming students. If you are non research, you don't get offered one. But being offered one and accepting it, I may keep it, at least for the rest of this year.
   1. Essentially the only thing that is guaranteed to chance for the rest of this first year, if I switch from PhD to non research masters, is I no longer have to do the rotations. The classes are the same, and class load only chances for the second year. PhD students take "research credits" while non research masters students take a few more "graded" classes. So the program director could tell me, keep teaching, don't go to any more rotations and register for classes next year like a non research masters student.

Regardless, if I switch from PhD to non research masters now, I have a chance at losing my support from the school. I could probably make due with loans or maybe find a job making use of my psychology and biology degrees. Regardless I think switching now is the best option as I salvage a lot of my time back, I can prepare for applying to medical school, which may actually work because now I am medicated, and I would no longer be under the stress from the rotations (which includes beyond boring bench work, and so much journal reading for journal clubs). I have no problem reading and understanding a journal but, 120+ pages two times a week is killing me.
I try to look at things from a positive side.. I did get some teaching experience (and I assume leadership come with that) from teaching. I got another 3 months of research experience, and a real project with results that may end up being published. (More likely, they will just redo the experiment with more subjects). I also should get a good LOR from my first research PI who is a practicing physician (MD PhD) who does translational research. He knows I work hard (he doesn't know how much I hate the work) and like the subject. I always came prepared when I met with him. I have probably read ~ 70 journal articles over the last 2.5 months to develop a understanding of the subject he studies. Being here also pushed me into finally getting treated for ADHD, and I was given the opportunity to become a director in a youth outreach organization. So it wasn't all bad. I just need to make this switch, and do what I really want to do with my life. I know it's hard and maybe impossible at this point, but I can't do what I am doing here. I have to cop out with a masters, and I think taking the non research route (even though I lose my financial support) it is the best option.

Like I said, I spent 5 years in undergrad. My overall GPA is pretty much fixed (because of how many hours I took). I did show a slight improvement in my GPA since freshmen year.
I did the math, if I was to take 30 credit hours of undergraduate BCPM classes, and got straight A's I would be able to up my overall GPA to 3.53 and my BCPM GPA to 3.50.

Is giving up my financial support, taking the risk of having to live off of loans for another year and a half, to relive the stress this programs research parameter is causing me and give myself more time to actually prepare for the MCAT, and do some of the EC things I need to do to have a shot at medical school, worth it?

I don't know how bad it is going to look, if the schools I apply to see I dropped from a PhD program, but I honestly feel like, I thought I would enjoy this, but realized I didn't. Even though I switched out, I put in good solid work (I will have a LOR).

I know it's long, I just need some advice. I realize probably nobody will read it. My heart rate has jumped up and been sitting at around 95-100 the entire week. I have gotten sick like 6 times since I started having doubts about finishing the PhD program. The stress is going to kill me. I want to minimize the damage I cause to myself and my future from this obvious mistake though. I want to make the most of the situation and move on, even though that means I may end up having to live off of loans for another year and a half.

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[rhesuspieces]

I didn't read most of this, so I'll give you my best advice based on what I did read...

A few years of living on loans and being in debt is nothing when you're doing it for your long-term happiness. Take a break from your PhD program and do a ton of shadowing to make sure medicine is really the career for you. Retake the MCAT. Apply DO. If you get above a 30, apply to your state MD school(s) as well.

Also, stop making excuses and explaining every little misstep. Go to a psychiatrist and get treatment for your ADHD and what seems to be a pretty severe anxiety disorder. See a therapist. You're not going to find success if you can't pull yourself together enough to commit to a life path.

Good luck.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I'm gonna funnel this on over to the WAMC forum.

 

[LizzyM]

I wish there were a way to be less blunt about this but sometimes it is necessary to put it out there as a wake up call. I do not intend to be cruel or harsh, only honest.

If you couldn't be a doctor, what would you want to do instead? Go do that. If you are caving under the pressure of graduate school, a switch to med school will be "out of the pot and into the fire".

You've made some poor choices but the fact remains that there are >15,000 medical school applicants each year who do not get into medical school (about half of all applicants). Given your story, I can offer little encouragement. If you see a career for yourself that requires a doctorate in biology, hunker down and finish. If you'd be happy doing something else, figure out what is needed for that career path and set forth. However, be realistic... medical school is a long shot given your record and may not be a good fit with your general approach to life.

 

[Chrisebril1]

I wish there were a way to be less blunt about this but sometimes it is necessary to put it out there as a wake up call. I do not intend to be cruel or harsh, only honest.

If you couldn't be a doctor, what would you want to do instead? Go do that. If you are caving under the pressure of graduate school, a switch to med school will be "out of the pot and into the fire".

You've made some poor choices but the fact remains that there are >15,000 medical school applicants each year who do not get into medical school (about half of all applicants). Given your story, I can offer little encouragement. If you see a career for yourself that requires a doctorate in biology, hunker down and finish. If you'd be happy doing something else, figure out what is needed for that career path and set forth. However, be realistic... medical school is a long shot given your record and may not be a good fit with your general approach to life.

That's devastating but what I was expecting to hear.

My chances are minimal even if I focused on applying to DO schools?

Clearly any shot revolves around an improved MCAT score. It's impossible for me to study for the MCAT to the capacity that I need to, if I am doing research in this program.

 

[startswithb]

I think the point she was trying to make, was that medicine may not be the best profession for you considering your tendency to crack under pressure. Even if you get a decent MCAT and into a DO program, the stress does not stop. You mention stressing out trying to get to multiple appointments in one day and having to eat crackers in the car. Medicine is an extremely faced paced profession. I think, for your mental health, you may want to consider a job with less pressure and a less stringent schedule. Or, take a break and try to develop better coping mechanisms. Having daily panic attacks is no way to live. Good luck.

That's devastating but what I was expecting to hear.

My chances are minimal even if I focused on applying to DO schools?

Clearly any shot revolves around an improved MCAT score. It's impossible for me to study for the MCAT to the capacity that I need to, if I am doing research in this program.

 

[Catalystik]

You seem to have a pattern of making impulsive decisions, possibly due to the ADHD. I suggest you make an appointment with an academic counselor at your school to help you carefully think through what your next move should be. Also, next time you see your psychiatrist, hopefully soon, discuss the stress you're under and explore better coping mechanisms. Worrying about the MCAT and ECs is not helping you so put those considerations to the side and concentrate on regaining your physical and mental health, which are your first priorities.

 

[Chrisebril1]

I think the point she was trying to make, was that medicine may not be the best profession for you considering your tendency to crack under pressure. Even if you get a decent MCAT and into a DO program, the stress does not stop. You mention stressing out trying to get to multiple appointments in one day and having to eat crackers in the car. Medicine is an extremely faced paced profession. I think, for your mental health, you may want to consider a job with less pressure and a less stringent schedule. Or, take a break and try to develop better coping mechanisms. Having daily panic attacks is no way to live. Good luck.

Thank you for replying and clarifying that. I totally understand how you can come to the conclusion that I crack under the pressure from my post.

As I type this, I realize it probably wont change how you picture me as a person and any advice you can give me based on that perception, but here goes.

I do not see myself as a person who cracks under pressure. Like I said, even though I HATE it here doing research, I have still performed as well as humanly possible. Unfortunately, that means I have been putting up with something that I hate which is causing stress. There is a lot of pressure here, and maybe it comes off as I cracked, but I don't see it that way. I am succeeding (I don't know how well I can maintain that), but it's tearing me up.

I would like to point out that I think you misunderstood (and probably I described it erroneously), that it isn't the stress of getting to multiple appointments in one day, or the lack of time. The stress is coming from the fact that I am doing a bunch of things, I really don't want to do. Not only that, but I am doing a bunch of things, for something that I don't want, nor need. I am driving to the lab, thinking... I really just want to go home and study for the test I have in two days. I am reading a journal article at the house thinking... I really should just study for the MCAT.

I can see where it looks like I am a wreck, but the stress is stemming from me doing something I don't want to do.

I normally am not a very panic prone man. I very seldom had anxiety attacks during tests. Even when I took the MCAT for the first time, totally unprepared, scoring 6-7's on the practice sections, because I could never sit down long enough to take a full length, I wasn't anxious to the point of pain. I always have that small amount of anxiety during a test that puts me in a test taking mode, but it's never severe.

I understand how you got to that conclusion, I probably did a piss poor job of explaining it, but I do not feel that is an accurate assessment of me. In undergrad, I was lazy, and unable to study, but I didn't get panic attacks or anxiety attacks.

I can only think of one other time when it was this bad, and that was ~ a day or two before I had to decide which graduate school I was going to attend. I had a very hard time deciding, and it was causing me some anxiety.

The stress and anxiety I am feeling right now, is stemming from (in my opinion) my realization that I made a mistake in coming into a PhD program (knowing full well I wanted to go to medical school, and actually had a plan... "Go to graduate school, get a PhD and study for the MCAT while there, then use that to boost my stats to get into Medical school"). Little did I realize, my PI would expect ~ 60 hours a week in the lab starting next year, and ~ 20 hours in the lab now, and another 30+ hours working on stuff for the lab at my house.

That is what is getting to me, because it is really interfering with what I want to do. I think, if I could work on the PhD while volunteering a lot, studying for the MCAT and putting myself in a position to get into medical school, I would do it.

I realized when I got here, PhD then MD is a TERRIBLE plan (not referring to those who earn a PhD then get a MD, but to actually plan PhD --> MD, is ridiculous).

Regardless, I have never been characterized by a panic prone man. I usually am very calm, and tackle problems when they come, with little worry of the outcome.

Unfortunately, this thing, affects so much of my future, it has pushed me over the threshold.

Like I said, I don't think I cracked. I definitely had a realization, but I am performing well, even under stress. The PI I am working for now, already offered to take me on as a research masters student with a stipend. But I have no free time to do what I really want to do, which is make up for past mistakes and try to get into medical school, which I PRAY is an option, now that I am properly medicated.

I understand medicine is fast paced and individuals in the field are subjected to stress, but I feel I normally handle stress well. This, event, and decision to right a wrong, and change my entire plan. I hope you understand that it's not driving to work and not getting a lunch that is stressing me out (although that sucks, and I used that to give you an idea of how little time I have to do what I really want to do, (get into medical school)), but it's the fact that I decided to say, "here you go, program, you can have the 18,000$ a year you give me, the tuition coverage and the health insurance, I want my free time back".

I know I mentioned I hate the bench work. That is true (I like the subject). I have done things I didn't like before. What is getting to me, regarding that is, I am spending all this time doing something I don't like, while I am sitting there thinking... when can I make some time to study for the MCAT, and shadow a physician, and go down town to lead some youth outreach walks. I can work hard, but not when it is for something I don't want doing something I don't enjoy (not only that, something I hate). I hope you can sympathize, and understand I am not a panic prone mess, but facing a very tough cross road, to take a walk down a long shot path.

I have some functional coping mechanisms. That's why I typed out all that stuff in the original post. As I typed it, and got it out, I could feel the stress and anxiety leaving me.

I wish there were a way to be less blunt about this but sometimes it is necessary to put it out there as a wake up call. I do not intend to be cruel or harsh, only honest.

If you couldn't be a doctor, what would you want to do instead? Go do that. If you are caving under the pressure of graduate school, a switch to med school will be "out of the pot and into the fire".

You've made some poor choices but the fact remains that there are >15,000 medical school applicants each year who do not get into medical school (about half of all applicants). Given your story, I can offer little encouragement. If you see a career for yourself that requires a doctorate in biology, hunker down and finish. If you'd be happy doing something else, figure out what is needed for that career path and set forth. However, be realistic... medical school is a long shot given your record and may not be a good fit with your general approach to life.

I don't think I would describe this as caving to the pressure of graduate school. Like I said, I am still doing well. I just hate it, and I would much rather, at least try to get into medical school. Especially now that I am medicated. I appreciate the straight forward answer and totally understand it. I have told myself the same thing you told me lizzy, but I truly hope you are wrong. I don't know what I would do if I couldn't get into medical school. Maybe another professional degree... but I think I would end up thinking I settled again.

It sounds like you are still unsure of what you want to do in life.

Yes, to some extent. I am unsure of what I want to do in life, if I can't do what I want to do =P. I can't tell the future, but I think I would be happy working to be a doctor. Cliche and corny I know, especially given I am probably stupider than every doctor out there right now, but it's the truth.

If you took that option away from me, I would probably fall into some other health care field, but always feel like I settled. Take away medical school as an option, and I have no clue what I want to do.
Even though I performed poorly in undergrad, and failed to accumulate the EC list most students have when they applied, I don't think a 3.45 (overall) 3.35 (BCPM) GPA and only 70 hours ER Volunteering experience, 35 hours of shadowing, 3 years of tutoring, one club and going on 2.5 full years of research is enough to say, "you are done". Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

My MCAT score says that, but hopefully I can improve it. Maybe I am incapable of performing well enough on it. Maybe I am just too close to "average intelligence" to make it into medicine. I truly hope not.

You seem to have a pattern of making impulsive decisions, possibly due to the ADHD. I suggest you make an appointment with an academic counselor at your school to help you carefully think through what your next move should be. Also, next time you see your psychiatrist, hopefully soon, discuss the stress you're under and explore better coping mechanisms. Worrying about the MCAT and ECs is not helping you so put those considerations to the side and concentrate on regaining your physical and mental health, which are your first priorities.

I understand how you would come to that conclusion from what I wrote, but I don't think it fits, at least for these more major events. I did make some rather bold decisions, but none of them were impulsive. All of them, employed weighing my options. Premed path off the bat was a pretty bold decision. I had poor grades, and considered law school. I took the LSAT applied, and decided not to attend. I went back to the premed track, and took the MCAT. I did poorly, and considered graduate school. I stuck with it, and that led me to where I am now. I will admit I am rather impulsive, but I always consider my options. I hope medical school is still an option.

I don't think I have an academic adviser here in the program. I talked to the program director about what would happen if I switch and he gave me the run down, but I am not going to burden him with all of this other stuff.

I am going to go talk to the premed adviser. Granted I am probably going to get the "another dumb average student hell bent on getting into medical school but too stupid to pull it off so now I have to tell him he's not good enough" look, but I am still going to.

I am almost certain I am done with the PhD program and the research here. I give up the money but I get free time back, to maybe put myself in a position to do what I would really enjoy. I hope it's not to late to try medicine, but that seems to be the theme from the replies here.

If there was any kind of choreography you would suggest I take to make it into medical school Fall 2012, given I am going to be in this program for another year and a half (Graduate May 2012) and will cop out with a masters degree.

My plan was to hunt down some volunteer or paid position in a hospital, shadow several physicians and study intensely for the MCAT, while continuing my outreach position.

I assume I am good on research right? LOL
What about teaching? Is being a GTA for a semester, and a tutor for 3 years good?

How badly do you think I am shooting myself in the foot with this decision to switch from PhD to non research masters? How do you think it would affect my chances at getting into medical school?

 

[Chrisebril1]

Since I am so sure I don't want to be here, and I don't like the work, and am not sure what use, if any the masters degree would be...

Do you think I should just quit the program entirely after the first semester or should I hold tight and just push through and get the masters, working on getting into medical school?

I made a huge mistake coming here. I don't want to do this for the rest of my life, or any part of my life.

 

[milkycow]

Can you stop typing novels and make it more sweet and short.

Thank You.

 

[theone1979]

Yea,I really dont mean to sound harsh, but you just aren't going to get many ppl to read such a long post. I would be happy to comment if you could cut it down a bit, but it's just a lot to ask as it stands.

Also, I want to comment on something else.
I didn't read your post, and I dont mean to stick my nose in your business, but I have a lot of experience with dealing with people with substance abuse, and the intense detail and length of your post is REALLY suggestive of someone using some sort of stimulant.

Its possible Im wrong, and its also possible that you are prescribed stimulants legitamitely, but regardless, I would warn you to be careful. Using stimulants either recretionally or medicinally can lead you down a terrible road, Ive seen it often. Just my 2 cents.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

1.) everything you complain about -- the lab work, taking and teaching classes, reading articles, giving presentations, having to do almost anything your PI asks -- is grad school. THAT IS GRAD SCHOOL. you really should have looked into that before even applying, but now that you're in it and don't like it, you gotta get out. forget the money, forget the stipend, forget about that crap. you're just a few months in and you know you hate it; it could 4-6 more YEARS. also, don't do a master's while intending to apply to med school; it's not as impressive as you think.

2.) you have a few conditions that you need to get a hold on: the ADHD, obviously, and also the laziness. how many times did you type the word "lazy"?

3.) make sure that medicine is really what you want to do. it seems like you make sporadic decisions (law school, med school, grad school, what's it gonna be?). you have to really make sure you want to do it, because:

4.) whether or not you CAN do it is another issue. you're GPA is less than stunning, your decision to enter the PhD program, and possibly quit, is a red flag, and who knows how you will do on the MCAT. how will you cope with being so lazy?

5.) you have very high hopes for being so lazy. maybe this is just something that you cannot do. afterall, it takes work, you can't just sit around and want it. you have to do something about it. either crank up the drive or lower the aspirations.

6.) sorry that #5 came off a bit rude, but honestly there are tons of alternatives for you. sometimes i get the impression that college students become fixated with only PhD/MD/JD type careers. heck, there's plenty you could do with your bachelors in psych, like that youth outreach thing you did...or get involved with counseling/corrections, or HR consulting, or management. or if you need to be in healthcare, why not explore all the options in healthcare that do NOT require a MD/RN...there's LOTS. maybe just look into it.

 

[Coram Deo]

I think you type this way and highlight the mistakes you've made that stick out to you because you're experiencing passing anxiety. You realize the weight of what's at stake and the mistakes you've made. I think you're fine!

Despite what anyone says here, do not measure yourself by their opinions. Even if it's professional! Against all the odds, press forward into obtaining this dream and don't let anything stop you! I think you can do it. And in the end, I don't think you'll have any regrets! Go for it! Despite all the odds, despite any past history... be encouraged to go forward and press into medicine!

Dr. Chris... How does that sound?

 

[Chrisebril1]

1.) everything you complain about -- the lab work, taking and teaching classes, reading articles, giving presentations, having to do almost anything your PI asks -- is grad school. THAT IS GRAD SCHOOL. you really should have looked into that before even applying, but now that you're in it and don't like it, you gotta get out. forget the money, forget the stipend, forget about that crap. you're just a few months in and you know you hate it; it could 4-6 more YEARS. also, don't do a master's while intending to apply to med school; it's not as impressive as you think.

2.) you have a few conditions that you need to get a hold on: the ADHD, obviously, and also the laziness. how many times did you type the word "lazy"?

3.) make sure that medicine is really what you want to do. it seems like you make sporadic decisions (law school, med school, grad school, what's it gonna be?). you have to really make sure you want to do it, because:

4.) whether or not you CAN do it is another issue. you're GPA is less than stunning, your decision to enter the PhD program, and possibly quit, is a red flag, and who knows how you will do on the MCAT. how will you cope with being so lazy?

5.) you have very high hopes for being so lazy. maybe this is just something that you cannot do. afterall, it takes work, you can't just sit around and want it. you have to do something about it. either crank up the drive or lower the aspirations.

6.) sorry that #5 came off a bit rude, but honestly there are tons of alternatives for you. sometimes i get the impression that college students become fixated with only PhD/MD/JD type careers. heck, there's plenty you could do with your bachelors in psych, like that youth outreach thing you did...or get involved with counseling/corrections, or HR consulting, or management. or if you need to be in healthcare, why not explore all the options in healthcare that do NOT require a MD/RN...there's LOTS. maybe just look into it.

Thanks mate, great advice.
You are right about the researching it more. I really should have. All the graduate students I was exposed to, seemed to handle it so well. I had no idea this is what they went through.

Somebody posted that I have no idea what I want to do, and I think I just realized he hit the nail on the head.

I just started thinking about what is really getting me and realized that it is, I probably wasted 5 years of my life getting bachelors degrees in Biology and Psychology and probably going to spend another 2 years working on a masters degree in "Molecular Biology". Coupled with the realization that I hate research, and I feel like I wasted so much time.

I REALLY appreciate your advice to drop out of the program and just not do the masters. I am done with the PhD. I am going to do what you said and forget all the other crap, and get out before I am pushed to a point of no return. I don't want to say it directly, but for the first time in my life, I feel pushed to that wall, and did not see a way out.

I feel that is a great idea to quit the masters program too, and I really want to do that. Like, I called my father, and told him, I might be coming back, I hate it here, but if I do that, I will fail the classes. I can try to get a leave of absence from psychological services, but I don't know.
I am fine in the classes, and am looking forward to some of the more specific in depth classes like Clinical Neuroanatomy. As stupid and a waste of time I think it's going to be, I think quitting the masters program / program all together is murder for my future. Although I would like to do that, I can't in good conscience do that.

I truly hope the laziness was a symptom of the ADHD.

I think there is something with the program itself here that is driving us up the wall. I am not the only one here who quickly decided to jump ship. 3 other people have straight up quit the program, not even 2 months in.

I understand where you are going about being fixated on becoming a MD. I am definitely going to start looking into alternative paths. I just need a career that allows me to be around people. I have to have social contact, I don't know what it is about me, but no matter how screwed up I get, if I am talking with other people, everything washes away.

Yea,I really dont mean to sound harsh, but you just aren't going to get many ppl to read such a long post. I would be happy to comment if you could cut it down a bit, but it's just a lot to ask as it stands.

Also, I want to comment on something else.
I didn't read your post, and I dont mean to stick my nose in your business, but I have a lot of experience with dealing with people with substance abuse, and the intense detail and length of your post is REALLY suggestive of someone using some sort of stimulant.

Its possible Im wrong, and its also possible that you are prescribed stimulants legitamitely, but regardless, I would warn you to be careful. Using stimulants either recretionally or medicinally can lead you down a terrible road, Ive seen it often. Just my 2 cents.

It's funny you say that, because I actually took an adderall tablet (15 mg) ~45 minutes before I started writing my original message.

I was getting hit with some of this anxiety before I got the prescription, but I don't remember it being this bad. Maybe it was, I don't know.

I am definitely going to bring this up and see what he says. I have never had anything hit me this bad before though. I hope it's just because it's such a major turning point in my life.
I don't abuse the drugs. I take them exactly like he prescribed them.

I also write in a journal, and have been for years. I have become a custom to writing long winded paragraphs about everything that happened in a given situation. I think that has destroyed any capacity I have to post a normal forum post.

PS I am actually still the director of the youth outreach. Regardless, I am contemplating just taking off and going peace corps for awhile if none of this works out for me. If I straight up drop out of the program, I am probably going to officer candidate school.

About my GPA, I realized the DO schools calculate it differently than AMCAS. It may be different because of the BCPM. I will try to figure it out and post the new BCPM (if it changes).

I REALLY appreciate all the replies, even hash ones. Maybe that's what I need. WeAreNotRobots, I think you are totally right about forgetting about everything and just getting out. I think I need to stay for the masters, as dropping out entirely is going to lead to a lot of problems, with grades, and "why did you quit". I think I can explain off the switch for PhD to masters. I still think a masters degree is going to be a waste of time though.

 

[Chrisebril1]

Yea,I really dont mean to sound harsh, but you just aren't going to get many ppl to read such a long post. I would be happy to comment if you could cut it down a bit, but it's just a lot to ask as it stands.

Also, I want to comment on something else.
I didn't read your post, and I dont mean to stick my nose in your business, but I have a lot of experience with dealing with people with substance abuse, and the intense detail and length of your post is REALLY suggestive of someone using some sort of stimulant.

Its possible Im wrong, and its also possible that you are prescribed stimulants legitamitely, but regardless, I would warn you to be careful. Using stimulants either recretionally or medicinally can lead you down a terrible road, Ive seen it often. Just my 2 cents.

You probably wont read my other reply, but yeah, I am on adderall. I took 15mg before I typed that. I only do what the doc prescribed, but I am definitely going to ask him about increased anxiety as a side effect.

I think you type this way and highlight the mistakes you've made that stick out to you because you're experiencing passing anxiety. You realize the weight of what's at stake and the mistakes you've made. I think you're fine!

Despite what anyone says here, do not measure yourself by their opinions. Even if it's professional! Against all the odds, press forward into obtaining this dream and don't let anything stop you! I think you can do it. And in the end, I don't think you'll have any regrets! Go for it! Despite all the odds, despite any past history... be encouraged to go forward and press into medicine!

Dr. Chris... How does that sound?

I don't know why it's true, but I think you are right. As I typed it all out, I honestly felt the anxiety pass. I definitely realize the weight of what is at stake and the mistakes I have made.

Everything you said fit so well, it's like you are in my head.

As much as I would love to be able to blame everybody around me (namely my parents who knew damn well I had it) for not getting my ADHD treated much... much earlier, I know I can't do that. I have to move on, and hope the doctor just handed me the key to taking a new grasp on life, and hopefully I am not out of the running.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

I think I need to stay for the masters, as dropping out entirely is going to lead to a lot of problems, with grades, and "why did you quit". I think I can explain off the switch for PhD to masters. I still think a masters degree is going to be a waste of time though.

yeah, i know what you mean: damage control. but you at least sound interested in taking the classes, so the masters might not be so torturous.

many grad schools have an option built into the PhD program where a student can "settle" for the master's after XYZ requirements. i think that's what you need to talk about with your PI/advisor/"dean of whatever".

just stay in control and go one step at a time. good luck.

 

[theone1979]

I understand you take your adderall only as prescribed, but I just want you to understand that you can still end up in trouble even if you are using as prescribed.

I have seen people develop terrible addictions to every drug imaginable and they were only taking the drugs "as prescribed".

Its a tough call with ADHD because on one hand i know stims like adderall can be a godsend, but on the other hand you need to realize that you are taking hardcore drugs. Just because it has a nice name like adderall doesnt change the fact that you are taking dextro-AMPHETAMINE....as in pure, pharmaceutical grade speed.

Just something to be aware of. Good luck.

 

[Chrisebril1]

yeah, i know what you mean: damage control. but you at least sound interested in taking the classes, so the masters might not be so torturous.

many grad schools have an option built into the PhD program where a student can "settle" for the master's after XYZ requirements. i think that's what you need to talk about with your PI/advisor/"dean of whatever".

just stay in control and go one step at a time. good luck.

Yeah, damage control seems like a good way of describing this. I defiently shouldn't have come here, and I think dropping out entirely may be the right move (just finish off this first semester and leave, claiming I realized the PhD program was not for me). I would hope that wouldn't come off as "cracked under the pressure" but "not a good fit" but I wish have to be realistic. Seems like, regardless of what I do, I am hurting my future.

1. Staying in the PhD program is probably the worst option for me. Clearly I shouldn't stay in that, if I don't want to do research as a career, and I am miserable doing research here.
2. If I drop down to masters, I no longer have to do the research and the rotations (and by extension have to deal with the PI's, post-doc's and their unreasonable demands) but I still take the classes. The classes are much harder than I was led on to believe coming into the program. The money isn't even a consideration for me anymore. Now I am thinking about my future career goals and current state of well being.
   1. If I stay for a masters, I do maintain that I at least finished the program but it still comes off like I finished something then changed my mind about what I wanted to do afterwords.
   2. I think getting a masters degree is going to look bad on an application to medical school (and any of the more selective health profession schools).
   3. The program isn't setup where I would still be a PhD student and end up with a masters after so much work.
      1. There is a completely separate tract, several students applied to and entered the program under. That is what I would drop down into.
         1. It's strange, because a couple of them, entered that very tract, and talk about, "I want to go into medicine, this is to help me do that". I don't see how this masters could help that. Maybe, being in the situation I am in, where it would say PhD dropper to masters makes it look worse.
            1. I understand the "He didn't make it through a PhD program, he's stupid" type of characterization I got from a lot of replies, but is it really that bad? I have only been here for 2 months. Is it going to be taken as "he couldn't hack it", or the more fitting descriptive "he found it wasn't a good fit and made a change"?
               1. I could understand if I was here for 3-4 years then dropped, but that isn't the case. I realized really quickly this isn't for me. Granted I may stay for a degree that only opens doors to jobs that deal with the things I don't enjoy.I am doing a lot of work for the classes but I can handle that.

2. Do you think it would look bad if I stayed for a masters degree, instead of just dropping out and trying to get into medical school without this masters degree?
​

4. If I just drop out, I still have to live here because of my 12 month lease. I have to find a job, and it is certain to show up that I dropped out, but I no longer have that, "it wasn't a good fit, but I still stayed 2 years" problem. Less of an issue, given, the only part that isn't a good fit is the research... But that's what Biology is so maybe it comes off as "your an idiot for staying in something you realized wasn't a good fit".

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It kind of sucks that I got pushed into this position by the graduate program, but like I said, I am not the only one. Two other people already dropped out entirely, and I know of one other who is considering dropping out entirely. Something isn't right with respect to the load.

Most of us are up at 6:30 in the morning and in class at 7:00 till 10:00. Then we shoot straight to our rotation lab, and stay there till 5pm or later. Then we come home and study for / setup for the classes we have to take or teach. In addition to that, we have seminar classes, that requires in depth reading of ~ 6 journal articles a week. In addition to that, there is journal club, that usually involves every member of the lab presenting a journal once a week. So not only do we have to prepare a presentation and develop a level of understanding of these complicated journals every week, we also have to read another 5 for the journal club.

The program is new, and I think the PI's don't realize what we have going on. That isn't just a cry baby cop out, my PI actually told me, he thought I only had a lecture class that had no tests and I just sat there, and the teaching was just a 3 hour class (not the case, ~ 10 hours in the class each week + another 15-20 hours grading lab reports).

I understand graduate students work hard, I know it's something popular media makes fun of all the time, but something about THIS seems ridiculous.

That being said, I think it's a combination of PI and the program. Maybe the program is setup in a way that is different from normal PhD programs, because we also have students that came here just for a masters degree. We both (PHD and masters) take the same classes, all through out. I have talked to a few of the other PhD students, and their rotation PI's have been great, saying, "come in when you want to, this is to get a feel for how you like my lab, I will have you run some basic techniques to see how you perform".

My PI, has me working some ridiculous cell culture paradigm of 6 different groups (expressing different symptoms associated with parkinsons disease), and in each group, 6 different subjects. Yes... 24 T75 plates, after one split I am loaded with 48 plates. I freeze down after that, to eliminate overload. That was just to build the stock.
Then came the assays... I am culturing 24 well plates with each of the groups above in quintuplicate. Yes, 120 wells are filled with culturing cells. It doesn't stop there through. Because these are human samples, from human patients, nothing gets thrown away. So after I plate the 120 wells, precisely in a very specific order (group 1, patient 1, group 2 patient 2....)......, any extra cells, are plated into a T25, and cultured and frozen down. I have to do that for EVERY assay I run. ROS level determination, cell death, SNP... I also have to do quantitative RTPCR for around 6 different genes. He didn't give me the list of these. He said, "these 6 groups show these phenotypes, look through my articles and my citations and bring me a list of genes you would expect to see variably transcribed".
I came into the lab with the thought that I am here to show I can do work (that is reasonable to my time restraints given class and teaching) and see if I like how the lab functioned. Not only have I been isolated from the rest of the lab, with the exception of 6 articles twice a week journal clubs, in which I have to make presentations twice a week for (just like everybody else in the lab), but, one of the post doctoral fellows is acting like I am lazy, thinking, I am supposed to be there 60 hours a week like she did when she was a graduate student. Clearly that post doc doesn't realize I have classes and teaching responsibilities. I understand that is graduate school, and if I only had to wake up and go to the lab, I would probably be alright. Read the articles for journal club over the weekend... But it's not the case. In addition to that, I still want to go to medical school, so I am trying to take on added responsibilities and ec activities to show I have the drive that is required of applicants. Plus I have to study for the MCAT...

Maybe I am stupid and prone to cracking under the pressure. But three months in of 6:30 AM - 1-2 in the morning the next day, doesn't seem right. If that's what is required for this path, so be it. It's not for me, especially since I don't want to go into research anyway. I came here planning on using a PhD to boost my chances of getting into medical school.

I don't think I am cracking though. I am performing well, and might end up getting some sort of second author or contribution (maybe down the road) from this project. I have always showed tenacity, and adapted. Unfortunately that means living in stress and only getting ~ 4 hours of sleep a night, but I am doing what needs to be done NOW. I just don't want to continue doing this, and is that really too much to ask for? Is it really cracking? I will definitely get a LOR although only based on 3 months of weekly meetings, research and journal clubs, but I think the PI got a good feel for what i CAN do. I don't think he realizes how I feel, or what I am going through (although I have told him how much I have been working, and he has shown some empathy, but still demands I put in work). He may have noticed my unnatural weight loss (I was a little overweight to begin with so maybe he thinks it's just a diet).

I am not the only one who came here ready to work, but was hit with something seemingly unreasonable, not worth it and downright unacceptable. Two other PhD students dropped out, within a month and a half, claiming similar things to what I am. Some of the other PhD students, as I have said, are working in labs that seem to understand what obligations first years have and are not over working us.

I only tell you all this, so that maybe, I can get some advice, not based on the conclusion that "he cracked, he probably wouldn't cut it in medical school anyway".

I already talked to the program director. He put the option of switching to non research masters on the table. I told him I owe it to at least my first rotation PI (because he has invested a lot into me, and I have invested a lot into this project) and would decide later. Later is coming around, and I am done with this first rotation in a little over a month.

It's kind of weird, the amount of data I have collected, for so many different samples... It honestly feels like I am already doing a masters thesis. I have gotten positive results with most of my experiments, showing clear differences between the groups.

Like I said, I don't think it was a crack, but a unnatural start to a PhD program. Maybe I am wrong and just not cut from the same cloth as people capable of achieving great things in their life. Certainty I am overworked and overwhelmed all for something I don't want anyway.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I just want to have a chance at medical school, but it seems like that isn't the case.

Maybe somebody can transition from the "get your life in check", to something I could do to have a shot at medical school.

I now it's long, I would really appreciate somebody to read the thing between the ______________ lines and let me know what they think. I did research in undergrad. I was the lab manager, and it seemed like the graduate students there didn't have these same problems. At some point, I have to say, "that is enough", right? Even if that is "graduate school". I hope my decision to give up on the PhD program doesn't make you all think I am unfit for medical school, and you will offer me some advice on how to reach that goal.

Academically things are very different now that I am on medication.
​

 

[echosensei]

My word. I have never seen such a self-absorbed, narcissistic diatribe in my life. As medical school faculty, I would think that any interviewer would figure this out in a matter of minutes. Medical school is not for you. You are not for medical school. Please refrain from trying to make the world your shrink. Pay one and go to him/her instead.

 

[SLP]

i think i read maybe 0.5% of your 3-4 novel length posts, from what i saw, i dont think you can handle it, u cant even handle what your doing right now

 

[Chrisebril1]

Last two posts were so depressing.

PhD program --> overworking me (6 am to 2am every day) --> reading 200+ pages of journal articles a week --> don't want to be here anyway --> don't like the research --> all my friends have left the program --> alone --> fear of changing to masters --> PANIC ATTACKS.


cut the "he can't hack it" ****. There is something wrong with this place, that is driving students out. Several of us here have noticed it.

I am not weak, and unwilling to work.

 

[startswithb]

OK, so I read some more of your novels. The complaints you make about grad school can probably apply to most jobs and/or school programs. I think you are expecting too much out of your WORK. It's not supposed to be amazing fun all the time. I would be interested in hearing how you think medical school is going to be. You'll say, "well I WANT to study medicine." Well, do you want to sit in the library and memorize a million drug pathways? I suggest you spend some time in the pre-allo forums and read what the med students are really saying about their experience. It is one of the most rigorous educational endeavours you can undertake. And, given your track record and attitude, it sounds like you would not enjoy it.

Listen, we are just trying to help you from jumping into another HUGE undertaking which will ultimately lead you to another frustration. But, if you don't believe any of us, here is what you need to do:

Perform well on the MCAT. 30+. Raise GPA to 3.6+. Get clinical work or volunteer experience. Get non-clinical volunteer experience. Apply. Write excellent essays detailing your motivation for medicine. Then, wait for interviews. It is actually a very simple plan. The execution, however, is the hard part. Good luck.

 

[Raziela]

I skimmed. That being said, I am not an ADCOM, medical student, etc. etc. so I cannot comment as to your suitability to become a doctor (or your ability to get into medical school in the first place)

However, I do work in a lab full-time, and have happily settled into a completely new area after undergrad. Because you can't change others, what you can do is complete your masters and make your life more enjoyable. (I would not drop the masters program, personally unless you can 100% assure yourself that this won't be held against you). Continue to work hard and keep your long-term goals in mind, even if it may cause you some loneliness in the short-term. The thing about loneliness is that you can take some real steps to solve it:
1. Look up local sports teams or clubs that match your interests (meetup.com for example) and do something social outside of work at least once a week.
2. Make a serious effort to get to know people in your research building, surely there must be other people in the tissue culture room at the same time as you? Funny enough--many of my best friends in my lab aren't actually from my group--they are from the group whose hood is next to mine in TC Strike up conversation with people you don't know (but remember to stay positive with new people).
3. I only skimmed--but have you talked about your advisor about how unhappy you are? I know my advisor isn't out to make my life hell--and we talk about how to make the best use of my time in the lab. If I feel overwhelmed in the lab, I go to him to help remind me of the big picture and to prioritize! Sometimes I get caught up in the little details (I'm a total perfectionist), and he helps me step back and figure out what to do first Of course, it is possible that your PI is 100% evil...
4. Are you talking to your family and friends enough elsewhere? I find that skyping my best friends makes me feel better after a long day in the lab.

PS. Skimmed again quickly--I would try a second lab rotation. You may just find a better fit for you.

 

[milkycow]

I read some more of your novel as well, I agree with everything mentioned.
1. Damage control
2. Boost GPA/ECs
3. Most important score well on MCAT
4. Find hobbies that do not involve anxiety attacks to yourself

 

[Chrisebril1]

OK, so I read some more of your novels. The complaints you make about grad school can probably apply to most jobs and/or school programs. I think you are expecting too much out of your WORK. It's not supposed to be amazing fun all the time. I would be interested in hearing how you think medical school is going to be. You'll say, "well I WANT to study medicine." Well, do you want to sit in the library and memorize a million drug pathways? I suggest you spend some time in the pre-allo forums and read what the med students are really saying about their experience. It is one of the most rigorous educational endeavours you can undertake. And, given your track record and attitude, it sounds like you would not enjoy it.

Listen, we are just trying to help you from jumping into another HUGE undertaking which will ultimately lead you to another frustration. But, if you don't believe any of us, here is what you need to do:

Perform well on the MCAT. 30+. Raise GPA to 3.6+. Get clinical work or volunteer experience. Get non-clinical volunteer experience. Apply. Write excellent essays detailing your motivation for medicine. Then, wait for interviews. It is actually a very simple plan. The execution, however, is the hard part. Good luck.

I am sorry it's so long.

I understand medical school is hard. Please understand though, I don't want to do research. I made the mistake of coming to a PhD program, with the PLAN to get a PhD then use that to boost my chances at MD. There is a difference between doing something that is hard for something you want, and doing something that is hard for something you have no interest in.

I don't know if I can cut it in medical school. I know people who are in medical school, and can't accept that they can do something I cant. I have done things my classmates who made it into medical school did. Score top of class, research, shadowed doctor and enjoyed it, volunteered in a ER and enjoyed it. Unfortunately I have ADHD and underperformed in undergrad.

I am on medication now. Do I really not owe it to myself to try again now?

I skimmed. That being said, it seems to me that you appear to be blaming everyone but yourself. Either its the masters program, your PI, or your doctor, etc. etc. I would recommend taking responsibility for your actions, because you cannot change anyone else (or the program that you are in).

I am not an ADCOM, medical student, etc. etc. so I cannot comment as to your suitability to become a doctor (or your ability to get into medical school in the first place)

However, I do work in a lab full-time, and have happily settled into a completely new area after undergrad. Because you can't change others, what you can do is complete your masters and make your life more enjoyable. (I would not drop the masters program, personally unless you can 100% assure yourself that this won't be held against you). Continue to work hard and keep your long-term goals in mind, even if it may cause you some loneliness in the short-term. The thing about loneliness is that you can take some real steps to solve it:
1. Look up local sports teams or clubs that match your interests (meetup.com for example) and do something social outside of work at least once a week.
2. Make a serious effort to get to know people in your research building, surely there must be other people in the tissue culture room at the same time as you? Funny enough--many of my best friends in my lab aren't actually from my group--they are from the group whose hood is next to mine in TC Strike up conversation with people you don't know (but remember to stay positive with new people).
3. I only skimmed--but have you talked about your advisor about how unhappy you are? I know my advisor isn't out to make my life hell--and we talk about how to make the best use of my time in the lab. If I feel overwhelmed in the lab, I go to him to help remind me of the big picture and to prioritize! Sometimes I get caught up in the little details (I'm a total perfectionist), and he helps me step back and figure out what to do first Of course, it is possible that your PI is 100% evil...
4. Are you talking to your family and friends enough elsewhere? I find that skyping my best friends makes me feel better after a long day in the lab.

PS. Skimmed again quickly--I would try a second lab rotation. You may just find a better fit for you.

Blaming everybody but myself has been a problem I have had all my life. I want to fix it.

I like the meetup.com idea, but I don't have the time right now. Hopefully I can make the time.

Problem with the people in my research building, is I can not relate to very many of them. There are a lot of international students. The lab I am in now has its own cell culture room so we don't share. My second rotation lab is a new lab with 4 post docs and the PI. I ended up having to make friends with the undergraduates here and some of the TA's I work with (who are in other programs).

My first PI is amazing. He is the nicest PI I have ever met. Thing is, he is a physician scientist, who runs a clinic and practice mainly, and comes to his "lab" one day a week. He and I only meet when I go to his clinic for our weekly meeting. His lab, and the post docs there, are another issue.

I talked to my program director / adviser, but things are getting tense here. Two students (I was friends with) have already dropped out. God knows how many students dropped / switched that I do not talk to. He also has another student contemplating dropping out right now.

I have talked to my father, but he keeps with the "be a man, make a decision, call me later".

The second rotation PI and I have met and I immediately felt the pressure, before starting. Long story short, he expects more than my current PI. My 2nd PI is a new faculty, who clearly does not understand what kind of demands first year of the program I am faced with. He expects 40 hours a week in the lab and ~ 6 journal articles a week for journal club.

1. Damage control
2. Boost GPA/ECs
3. Most important score well on MCAT
4. Find hobbies that do not involve anxiety attacks to yourself

Damage control yes. Reducing any negative repercussions this will have on my future, regardless of what path I take.

I am working on the ECs. I am director of a youth outreach organization. GPA is another issue.
I would have to take 30 credits hours BCPM to up my OGPA to 3.53 and my BCPM GPA to 3.50
If I take 60 credit hours of BCPM (not even sure that is possible) and got all A's, my oGPA could up to 3.59 and my BCPM GPA to 3.59. Retaking classes for DO schools with around 30 credit hours of retaking, OGPA would up to 3.65 and BCPM GPA to 3.69 with all A's.

Hopefully with the ADHD meds I can perform on the MCAT.

I normally don't get anxiety attacks. I am going to see my psychiatrist tomorrow. I am sure I can get a "psychological leave", if I decided to drop out entirely.

 

[Raziela]

Blaming everybody but myself has been a problem I have had all my life. I want to fix it.

I like the meetup.com idea, but I don't have the time right now. Hopefully I can make the time.

Problem with the people in my research building, is I can not relate to very many of them. There are a lot of international students. The lab I am in now has its own cell culture room so we don't share. My second rotation lab is a new lab with 4 post docs and the PI. I ended up having to make friends with the undergraduates here and some of the TA's I work with (who are in other programs).

My first PI is amazing. He is the nicest PI I have ever met. Thing is, he is a physician scientist, who runs a clinic and practice mainly, and comes to his "lab" one day a week. He and I only meet when I go to his clinic for our weekly meeting. His lab, and the post docs there, are another issue.

I talked to my program director / adviser, but things are getting tense here. Two students (I was friends with) have already dropped out. God knows how many students dropped / switched that I do not talk to. He also has another student contemplating dropping out right now.

I have talked to my father, but he keeps with the "be a man, make a decision, call me later".

The second rotation PI and I have met and I immediately felt the pressure, before starting. Long story short, he expects more than my current PI. My 2nd PI is a new faculty, who clearly does not understand what kind of demands first year of the program I am faced with. He expects 40 hours a week in the lab and ~ 6 journal articles a week for journal club.

My friend, you are missing out if you choose not to befriend the international students. In my experience, they are some of the coolest, most giving, and fun people around. People don't need to be American or like you to be your friends, or for you to relate to them. Just think, it will be great practice for you, because as a doctor, you may have to relate to and help people who 1) aren't like you 2) don't speak English 100%.

And make time for social events--you will be so much happier.

 

[Chrisebril1]

If my my undergrad class mates can make it into (and through) medical school, I can't accept the claim that I can't.


I was never the stupid kid in class. I always understood and got the material, I just had a hard time studying, and even harder time taking tests.


Now that I am on Adderall, do I not owe it to myself to give it another try?

177 credit hours, Biology, Psychology.
AMCAS OGPA - 3.45
AMCAS BPCM - 3.36
AACOMAS oGPA - 3.45
AACOMAS sciGPA - 3.38

Junior oGPA running - 3.27
Senior oGPA - 3.66 (with 4.0 for last 40 semester hours).

70 Hours hospital ER Volunteering.
35 Hours shadowing Orthopedic surgeon.
Tutor for 3 years.
Member of AED, several short term volunteering stints.
Worked as a officer manager and mechanical technician over the summer my Freshman and Sophomore year. (at my fathers automotive shop so I don't know if it carries any weight).
5 and a half semesters or research. 3 in HCV, 2 in cognitive psychology, 3 months in Parkinson's disease.

Current EC's
GTA Anatomy and Physiology lab, 3 classes.
Youth outreach director.



I tried different paths, but I always ended up back on "pre med". "Not sure what you want to do" isn't the problem. Being able to do it is...

 

[Chrisebril1]

God damn I am sorry this is long.

I am a 23 year old male. Bachelors degrees in Biology and Psychology.

I started school wanting to go to medical school. Did below average and didn't bother to apply. Stayed in school an extra year, got my grades up (4.0 gpa last year in undergrad and earned psychology degree) but didn't do well at all on the MCAT. Got a 21. (PS 8, VS 5, BS 8)

I didn't prepare sufficiently, and I know that.

I have no idea how I would have done if I did prepare because I am not very smart as is. ADHD evaluation / IQ test was taking a few weeks ago. Results were
121 - Verbal Comprehension
123 - Perceptual Reasoning
134 - Processing Speed
76 - Working memory

Because of the bad working memory and symptoms I was diagnosed with ADHD combined.
Psychiatrist prescribed me with Adderall. Been on it for a week now.

I am in a PhD program now. After the 21 MCAT score, I decided, "spend 5-6 years working on a PhD and better prepare yourself for a medical school application".

I am here, and I am miserable. God damned if I am not performing well enough to pass the classes and earn the respect of the faculty, but I hate it.

I realize I hate this type of research (Biochemistry/Molecular Biology).

The PhD degree conferred is "Biomedical Sciences".
The MS degree conferred is "Molecular and Microbiology".

I know some people are going to attack me with "you can't handle graduate school, don't even think about medical school", because that's what happened when I posted something similar to this in "what are my chances". Is that REALLY the case when you are doing something you hate? Am I really in a position of "incapable" or "cracked" if I decide not to finish something I started and realized I hate?

I can't pull myself to finish a PhD in a field I absolutely despise. I could never do this kind of research for a living.

That being said, I have to make a decision to switch to a non research masters option for a MS in "Molecular and Microbiology", or I have to take a leave of absence from the program.

There are problems with that though. This isn't just a "do what you want" problem I am having. I am being crushed by depression and anxiety. I have spent most of my life with no friends. My family has no idea what I was put through as a kid by bullying and ridicule. Abusive mother and father.

I spent all of college alone, in my room, with the exception of going to class and a few EC's. I didn't develop any skills in interacting with people in an even that didn't require it. Only made a few friends in college but the friendships eventually ended up fading.

I was so depressed at my first school, I had to transfer to a different four year university. I made due by immersing myself in things that took my mind off of the pain. Playing video games was my out. I did things to keep my mind from wandering.

I am so ****ed up, but my goal of becoming a doctor wont ****ing wane. All my decisions are being impacted by the qualifier, "how will this affect my chances at getting into medical school".

The depression here at this school is unwavering because I lost my coping mechanism. I was introduced to some girls here and we became friends. We started hanging out, (Things were good for me at this point), then they said I came off as creepy, they called me creepy and clingy to my face, and refuse to talk to me since.
That ****ed me up so bad. I gave up my coping mechanisms (didn't need them anymore) while I was with them.

I don't want to have those coping mechanisms back. I can't do anything with my life, spending 8-12 hours a day playing video games.

I have one mediocre friend here now. We don't do a lot together, and I think he just does things with me because he feels sorry for me. Anytime he and I go do something, I feel like **** because he comes off as the kind of guy I wish I was.

Something he did the other day made me snap. Without even trying, he garnered the attraction of a girl I was trying so hard to impress. I seriously snapped the next morning when I realize, this girl threw herself at him later that night. I woke up, realized it happened, and I rolled into the fetal position on my bed and stared at my wall without blinking. I actually felt the snap. I have since gotten over it, but it still sucks.

That is just a part of the crap that is breaking me. I was constantly emotionally abused by my mother, who I feel doesn't want me. My father physically abused me constantly, and he and I have such a strained relationship from so many ups and downs. Anything affecting him negatively was taken out on me. I was at the mercy of his mood, so afraid of doing anything, for the chance he would get upset and I wouldn't be there. The next day I would just catch it even worse. He was a awful drunk. I remember one day, him screaming my name, expecting me to come running out of my room at 3 in the morning. For hours he screamed my name and it eventually woke me up. I came out, and he told me, "go to the store and get me some milk". I refused, and caught a beating. He tore down constantly threw and broke things, and the next day, it was my fault for causing it. While I was living with him (because my mother didn't want me), he got into a fight with his girlfriend. It was taken out on me, and I attempted suicide. I was hospitalized for like 5 days.

There have been so many ups and down with my father, from being called a pathetic loser to being chased down the road fearing he was going to run me over. I truly believe he does love me from all the thing he has done for me, but that doesn't change how what he did to me affected me. I know this is a huge issue I have, because anytime I talk (or in this type) how I feel about what he put me through, I am brought to tears. He is the only person I actually have to talk to. How pathetic is that? I tried so many times to separate myself from my father. He supported me all throughout college. I did poorly in high school and didn't get any scholarships. My little brother hates me to the pit of his soul. He has never been shy of telling me he thinks I am pathetic. My brother has a lot of the characteristics I wish I had.


I was kicked out of his house so many times because one of his employees didn't show up for work. He would get pissed at work, come home and see I didn't clean his house, and go on a rampage.

I don't know how I could ever muster up the courage to tell a counselor this, but I think I have to. I am going to try to go to the counseling center next week, and even thinking about that brings tears to my eyes.

I don't just have a bad child hood, I also have several "problems" that are not necessarily dependent on a bad child hood. (That is, somebody could have these problems, and not have had a bad child hood). I have terribly low self esteem, and aberrant cognitions (IE, I walk into a room and always think the people laughing are laughing at me).

Anybody who took the time to read a brief summary can tell I am a royally screwed up individual. As a kid I had some of the callous traits. As badly as it hurts me to admit it, I also had some incidents of animal cruelty. That was only when I was a really young child, and even though my mind will wander to places that are so disturbing, I am in control of myself, but I still have very "bad" thoughts.

Although I never thought about doing it consciously, I feel I am so reserved in everything I do, and so distant from people around me, because I am trying so hard to keep the monster from inside me from coming out. I fear the day I may lose control. I am in strong control of how I act around other people and because of that, I think people just think I am weird. In fact, my only friend left at this school, actually told me "you are just weird", when I he and I were talking about socializing with new people.

I honestly think nobody knows really what I am going through, what I have been through or how close I am to the brink. How badly I fear the monster inside of me is going to come out, so I keep myself in deep control. Chances are some of my classmates, who are in the masters program at this school, using it as a jumping point to boost their chances at medical school, are going to read this, and ostracize me even more but what ever.

All of the long term life decisions I make, all of my plans I am trying to develop to FIX myself and the pain that is pounding me as of recent are influenced by the fact that I still dream of making it into medical school. I want that to happen so badly. I was underperforming in undergrad, but I never gave up the end dream. I pray this Adderall will give me a shot at performing to the level that I need to do reach my dreams, but I still have so many other problems.

I don't want to do the PhD program, I hate it so much. Take it as you will, like the other people who attacked me personally as "stupid" and "incapable" because "you cracked under the pressure of graduate school". Is quitting PhD because you hate it really the same as not being able to and cracking? I am performing well, I just hate it.
I don't want to do research for a career nor do I want to do research at this school even short term for a thesis masters.

I have organized my options to,

Drop to a non research masters and find a part time job and just take the classes to get a masters degree in Molecular and Microbiology. I can't see it doing anything for me, as it only opens doors for jobs like research. The most I could see myself getting out of it, is it serves as a stepping stone for my end goal. But is that really worth another year and a half? I feel the best option to make it into medical school is to finish with a masters degree. I would have to find a job, but only part time. I could work part time, hopefully in a clinical setting, but I don't know if there is anything like that available.

My other option is going to the counseling center and asking for a leave of absence. That leads to SO many problems. I have to live here for the rest of my 12 month lease. I doubt I could sublet this apartment, but it's possible. If I sublet I would have to move back in with my father. I would have to find a full time job that paid enough to pay my rent and allow me to live. Plus, I would probably never return to the program and have to explain on any application why I quit. If I leave the program entirely, I have nowhere to go, and nothing to do.

I am not cracking from the work load. I hate the work, but I am performing well. I don't know what I would do if I couldn't do medicine. Defiantly not driving a pipette through.

 

[Chrisebril1]

It feels like any career I could see myself in, a MS in Molecular and Microbiology is going to be useless for anything but as a application booster.

But even some fields, who cares? Physical Therapy.

I don't know what I am going to do. I want to go to medical school, but I realize that is a long shot, even if I do buckle down.

Regardless of what I do, I am in for some stress. I go masters, i have to find a job and still take classes for a degree I don't think will serve any purpose.

If I drop out entirely, I have to get a full time job in a matter of a month, I still have to stay at this "student housing place" place for a year, and I will have to deal with explaining why I took a leave of absence, and probably end up putting myself in a position where it is strongly recommended that I am in therapy for the rest of my life.

If I stay in the PhD program (almost NO!!!!! chance of that happening), I keep a job (21,000$ a year + the benefits), but I work 60-80 hours a week doing something I hate for the next 5-6 years. I get no free time to volunteer and build ECs or study for the MCAT, so chances of me going to medical school shortly after graduating are minimal.


Clearly I am ****ed. What would you do in my situation?

I finish this semester in December. I would have to have my leave of absence request in for the end of this semester. If I start next semester, I have to wait for summer for another leave of absence.

That gives me a month to decide, get the counseling to allow me to leave (I don't think I am clinically depressed, as the symptoms haven't been there for long enough, but i am in distress and need time to figure it out).

To get the leave, all I need is the program directors permission and the office of graduate studies permission. I have already talked to the program director about my concerns with finishing the PhD and he offered switching to masters.

Something tells me, staying in a university setting, and continuing to work on my interpersonal skills and making friends would be better for me developmentally, to continue to overcome the problems that have faced me in that capacity. That is, I would like to stay at a university and continue to work on improving myself.

Is that reason enough to spend another year and a half on a degree that can not in any capacity be terminal and I remain happy. That is, if I get this masters degree and use it and my bachelors degrees and get a job with just that background, I can not see myself being happy.


I know I can finish the masters degree. The work is not too hard. I just don't enjoy the research and don't foresee a terminal masters degree here would do anything for me, so the only way it's beneficial is if I can use it as a stepping stone to something I WANT to do. I am looking forward to some of the more advanced classes (IE Clinical Neuroanatomy).

 

[JokerSeven]

I tried different paths, but I always ended up back on "pre med". "Not sure what you want to do" isn't the problem. Being able to do it is...

If you want to know whether you're able to do it, then ask yourself,"How hard am I willing to work for this?" Don't think about any excuses, don't blame anyone, just answer that question for yourself. We can't answer that for you, only you can, and that's ultimately what's going to determine if you can survive in med school. Your grades seem fine and you could probably get into a DO school, but just make sure you know it's absolutely what you want to do rather than "the final option," otherwise, it's just not going to work out. Med school is very personally demanding. It's time consuming, it's stressful, and it's difficult. You should really consider whether you're cracking right now because you don't like the work, or just can't handle it and are rationalizing. There's a difference between confidence and self-delusion; make sure it's former if you plan to apply to med school.

 

[Wermz]

OP: Quit yo jibber jabber and just git r done

 

[Chrisebril1]

OP: Quit yo jibber jabber and just git r done

So i'm not SOL, and still have a chance to redeem myself?

 

[UbuntuGM]

I originally wasn't going to comment when I read this thread, but your insistence on fishing for hope compels me to respond.
You and I are similar in that we both obsess over probabilities and possibilities. Being pre-med will do that to you.
Your situation, however, is more complicated than typical pre-med's.
It is my opinion that you are not ready for medical school yet. You admit you aren't sure what you want to do. Then 2 posts later claim there's nothing else you can see yourself doing other than being a physician. How often do you really change your mind about this? And what does that say about you?

You've got other issues to work out, including those surrounding your social life, self-perception, and maturity, which deserve far more attention than you are apparently giving.
Ultimately, no, I don't think you're SOL. Someday in the future when you have a better hold on your life, you'll be able to approach medical school more appropriately. But the fact that you feel like you need to repeatedly reassure yourself on this thread despite most people telling you to explore other avenues says a lot about your insecurities.

 

[nikster1217]

You probably have a good shot if you make some improvements to your application. The first thing you should do is prep for the MCAT. You need a good score to pass initial screens and to balance out your GPA. Its all a numbers game until you get to the interivew (and even after).

Next, if you're serious about becoming a physician, start thinking about DO schools. They tend to be more forgiving of numbers if you present yourself as a mature student who can learn from his mistakes. You should probably start making a draft of your personal statement for people to edit, because your current tone is whiny and your writing style is rambling and verbose. These will not make an effective personal statement, and your personal statement is really important. You also need to begin shadowing an osteopathic physician and work hard to learn about osteopathic medicine. In every interview at a DO school, they will ask you what you have done to investigate the profession.

Also, you currently have more than enough research now to satisfy DO schools. If you don't like it, don't do it. Stop hiding in school because it's comfortable and familiar... you need to get a job, hopefully one that you actually enjoy and that does some good for people. Your interviewer is not going to be wowed if you walk into the interview and all you have to talk is something that so obviously makes you miserable. Yes, pre-meds can do something other than research and still be competitive for medical school admission. In my opinion, you need to start focusing on something you have a passion for (maybe your work at the youth outreach center? Yes, you're not going to make a lot of money doing something like this but so what if you actually feel fulfilled? You can make money when you finish your residency if that's what you're concerned about)... I used this strategy and have already been accepted to 3 of the top DO schools and have been invited to MD schools as well with only mediocre stats. Plus, I actually am doing something worthwhile with my time between undergrad and med school.

Good luck.

 

[bonsaipalmtree]

So i'm not SOL, and still have a chance to redeem myself?

There is always a chance to redeem yourself. The beauty of medical school admission is that, often, success boils down to controllable factors like focus and hard work. There are post-grad opportunities and SMPs that give you so many chances to prove yourself (or many chances to realize that medicine might not be the career for you).

I did not read your posts because they were so long, so I do not know the details, but it seems like you need to calm down and focus, rather than obsessing over hardships and "what-ifs". Pick a goal and go for it. I'm a girl, but the phrase "balls to the wall" comes to mind.

 

[DucoNonducor]

There is always hope. But you really need to focus. Your posts are everywhere and it always seems that you're trying to justify why you're not this... not that... etc

I'd just drop the PhD program and do damage control from now on.

 

[Silverfalcon]

Yeah definitely a novel here. Couple points. What you do with them is up to you.

1) Unless you are absolutely sure about medicine, I say. Do not do it.
2) Unless you can actually learn to appreciate research work and rigor involved in PhD program, do not do that either. You don't just go to grad school because you couldn't get into med school right away. Grad school is easy to get into, but hard to finish. Obviously, you are learning that the hard way.
3) Get counseling.
4) Take a writing course to learn how to learn concisely.

 

[physio84]

I did not have time to read the novellas on this page...honestly these are the longest posts I have ever seen in one forum. Ever. Not trying to be mean but here's a little tough love:
1) Your chances are not shot. (I don't think. I just looked at the numbers, couldn't sort through everything else). Like other's have said: score well on MCAT, boost GPA a bit, gain clinical experience, and apply.
2) I would be more concerned, or afraid maybe, for adcoms. Clearly writing essays comes naturally to you. You *need* to learn how to be more concise. I just had to fit a year's worth of research into a 1220 character abstract. No one is going to want to listen to you when you waste their time and don't get to a point. Adcoms would toss your app in the trash without even reading it if they saw essays like that.
3) Take a deep breath. I'm not saying you don't work hard, but come on, life just isn't that bad. Figure yourself out. Learn how to be comfortable in your own skin and stop making excuses all the time. You will succeed at some things, and fail at others. We all do. When you succeed, pat yourself on the back and keep going; when you fail, get up, dust yourself off, and MOVE ON! Good luck.

 

[aidenpryde]

From what you have written, the biggest thing holding you back are you interpersonal skills, something that will be more important as a physician than any knowledge you can have. It is normal to feel awkward in social situations, but you are allowing this to dominate how you relate to others. My advice is to work on this aspect first, then worry about medical school.

And yes, dropping out of a graduate program will derail your chances of getting into medical school. Switching to a master's will not, but you also have time to think about that before any decision has to be made. It seems you haven't been in your graduate program long, give it some time, try to meet new people (especially outside of your program) and find social things to do.

 

[Chrisebril1]

Yeah definitely a novel here. Couple points. What you do with them is up to you.

1) Unless you are absolutely sure about medicine, I say. Do not do it.
2) Unless you can actually learn to appreciate research work and rigor involved in PhD program, do not do that either. You don't just go to grad school because you couldn't get into med school right away. Grad school is easy to get into, but hard to finish. Obviously, you are learning that the hard way.
3) Get counseling.
4) Take a writing course to learn how to learn concisely.

I am sure I want to be a physician.

I have considered alternative careers given the possibility that I am not good enough to make it into medical school, but my drive to be a physician has never waned.

You are right about number 2, and I didn't buy that line of thinking when I applied.

I honestly would have been happier doing social psychology/personality psychology research for a PhD.

I selected this field for a PhD because it kind of fits with medicine. Thinking I would use it to boost my chances at medical school and help me in a career in medicine.

You are right about it being hard to finish but that is not the issue I am facing. I am doing well in the program. High marks in my classes and respect from my first rotation PI who already offered me a seat in his lab to finish a PhD. The hard work definitely sucks, but it's nothing I can't handle. It's knowing if I stay I am going to be doing hard work in a field I dislike for the next 5+ years.

I like learning this material, I find it interesting, but I do not enjoy the wet lab work.

Like I said, I selected this field because I thought it was the logical fit for a MD/PhD. I did not realize how backwards of an idea it is to plan "PhD then MD".

I can do a PhD, just not in Biochemistry or any related field that requires wet lab work.

I understand my writing style sucks. I had good personal statements when I applied to graduate school and law school. I got a Q on my MCAT writing section. Granted I got a 21 overall on the other parts (PS/BS = 8, VS = 5).

I just like to provide a lot of information in hopes I can get well informed replies. Guess that doesn't work to well when nobody reads what I write =/.

I am hoping this adderall helps me prepare for the MCAT in an effective manner. Sucks that I spent 5 years of college without it but I am fixing the problem.

 

[Chrisebril1]

I am just so irritated by how badly quitting this program is going to screw up my future chances at medical school.

Not only do I not enjoy this research area. The program here is terrible.

Three people I know quit within the first two weeks. Since then at least 4 other PhD and masters students straight up left. There is another PhD student talking about and probably did quit because he hasn't been coming to any of the classes and another student talking about transferring because the program is so terrible.

Program started off with like 45 students. We are seriously down to ~ 30


It might sound like a good idea to start volunteering in East St. Louis helping homeless men and women off the streets, but after a couple weeks down there, chances are most of the people would quit it too.

Is it really so bad to quit this crap?

 

[Wermz]

Jesus, get it together. I want to slap your face.

 

[futureboy]

To the original poster, get some help, and get it now. Several parts of your post are quite unsettling, and I am concerned you could do harm to yourself or others.

Also, did you use your real name for your SDN user ID? If so, change it IMMEDIATELY! You don't want this kind of personal stuff out there on the internet.

As for graduate school, I agree that you should not drop out. Also, I'm no adcom, but I would think that a Ph.D in biomedical sciences would look pretty sweet on a med school application. Maybe your original plan wasn't too bad. I don't remember you mentioning your undergraduate GPA, so it's hard to assess your chances. You say you hate the Ph.D work, but if you can suck it up for a few more years it could be worth it. If you think of things long-term and consider the Ph.D as a means to an end (MD admission), it might be more bearable. Also, it will give you extra time to work on your personal issues and to study for your MCAT retake. Additionally, even you don't do much better on the test, medical school in the Caribbean is a viable option (you'll need to research the schools at that point).

I hope you can get on the right track personally and career-wise. Good luck to you.

 

[GellaBella]

Ok. First and foremost...

YOU MUST MUST MUST Go see a counselor. You must. Your childhood problems cannot be erased, but you can minimize their impact on you now, your future, and your interpersonal skills. This can raise your self-esteem and make you more successful in whatever career you decide to pursue.

You need to do this now. ASAP. Getting yourself on the right track emotionally has to be your biggest priority. Whether this leads to a leave of absence and how this might potentially look to med schools is secondary to getting yourself help.

Now. About the PhD. Dude, if you hate it, drop it!! Seriously! I just finished my PhD. I enjoy research. A PhD is hard enough to complete and do well in when you enjoy it, because believe me, there were many years when I didn't enjoy it all that much. If you know already that you hate it, get out! I recommend taking the masters route. This will give you time to stay in school and also get some counseling and when you are emotionally ready to apply to med schools you will have a masters which will help.

Seriously, do not feel bad about leaving the PhD program. Does a PhD look good when you are applying to med school? Sure, probably. Is it worth it to spend 5-6 years doing something you already know you hate? No. That's not going to help you.

Get some mental support from someone and work on you for awhile.

 

[Chrisebril1]

YOU MUST MUST MUST Go see a counselor. You must. Your childhood problems cannot be erased, but you can minimize their impact on you now, your future, and your interpersonal skills. This can raise your self-esteem and make you more successful in whatever career you decide to pursue.

You need to do this now. ASAP. Getting yourself on the right track emotionally has to be your biggest priority. Whether this leads to a leave of absence and how this might potentially look to med schools is secondary to getting yourself help.

To the original poster, get some help, and get it now. Several parts of your post are quite unsettling, and I am concerned you could do harm to yourself or others.

I "started" counseling today.

Well, in fact, all I did was the intake today, talked to a therapist about what I want to get out of counseling and told them about my background (abuse, family, friends and relationships).

I find out next week, if I get some counseling here on campus, or if I am referred off campus for long term therapy. I am not sure how it is going to play out.

Off campus therapy might be really expensive for me.

Also, did you use your real name for your SDN user ID? If so, change it IMMEDIATELY! You don't want this kind of personal stuff out there on the internet.

It's not my real name.

Now. About the PhD. Dude, if you hate it, drop it!!

I recommend taking the masters route. This will give you time to stay in school and also get some counseling and when you are emotionally ready to apply to med schools you will have a masters which will help.

Seriously, do not feel bad about leaving the PhD program.

As for graduate school, I agree that you should not drop out.

The PhD program was a huge mistake.

I only started it, because I thought it would fit in for a "MD".

I would much rather do research in social psychology or something. Maybe a PhD would look good on a MD application, but it's not worth it. I don't enjoy driving pipettes, and making sure the cells in the incubator don't get "too hungry"

Making the plan "PhD then MD", under the assumption "don't leave school" was stupid. I should have gone out and gotten a job and worked on a medical school application.

I don't have much of a choice. I have to tell the program director, I don't want to do a PhD here. Not only is my heart not in it, not only do I not want to do this as a career (regardless of how much it will impact my chances at medical school), but the school sucks. This is the first year the program is set up, and it's obvious. (They took a bunch of professors from different fields at the school and made this program).



I have no doubt I can finish a PhD program but I don't want to do it in a field I don't enjoy.


The masters route is what I am going to have to try, unless the program director takes that option off the table, since so many students have quit the program. (like 4 or 5 students have dropped out of this program over the first 3 months).

Still feels like the degree (masters) will be a waste, but it's damage control. Use the time that I get back, that would otherwise be spent on research, on studying for the MCAT and volunteering.

Get some mental support from someone and work on you for awhile.

I hope you can get on the right track personally and career-wise. Good luck to you.

I am going to, but it still sucks, that I am starting to realize, much of what I have done (Biology stuff) is going to be a waste if I can't make it into medicine.

I need a job where I can work with people and think about people.

I am doing fine here in the program. My first rotation PI has gone out of his way to tell the program director I am doing well. The program director brought that up when I mentioned I don't want to finish a PhD. I am scoring above average on the tests so far so difficulty isn't an issue. It's hard, and I am only getting 4-6 hours of sleep a night, because of how many journal articles I have to read, but it's nothing I can't handle.

My AMCAS calculated GPA
Freshmen running
Overall 3.074
BCPM 3.067
Sophomore running
Overall 3.27
BCPM 3.20
Junior running
Overall 3.27
BCPM 3.27
Senior running
Overall 3.45
BCPM 3.35

AACOMAS is about the same, as I never retook bad classes.

Ironically, my Psychology GPA is a 4.0; and I usually scored first or second in the class (usually ~ 200 people).

I just need a career that deals with people as individuals. Not a career that works with the cells of people, and the people being there are seen as an inconvenience to getting to the cells.

 

[roadrunr]

you should write text books. I think its your true calling. common you know its what you really want.

 

[Hemichordate]

you should write text books. I think its your true calling. Common you know its what you really want.

+1

 

[gvku]

Ok, so i skimmed through the very long explainations but I think I generally get the jist of your problem. You are a bit indecisive, you underestimated what it would take to get the PhD. Basically you are not cut out for research--this should be a cause for concern... medschool is lots of work and long hrs too so I would think hard about why you really hate gradschool.Those same reasons may make medschool equally unpleasant. I am a finishing PhD and am applying to medschool. I went to gradschool because I didn't have my residency etc yet to qualify for loans etc, so i decided to pursue biomedical research in preparation for med school. A PhD is hard work. What you basically need to do at this point if you really want to go to medschool which I think you are perfectly capable of if you can calm down, center yourself and focus on one thing, is:

-Drop out of the PhD into non-thesis Masters. You get a masters!!--the medschool wont know you went in there as a "PhD student." (I think)This will require you to take out some loans. These should be for only a year or so because you should have taken most of the classes by now. This is unpleasant but it comes with the decision. You obviously do not do well juggling lab,schoolwork and MCAT prep, so job may not be a good option for you. You are about to take huge loans anyway in medschool so why not sacrifice to get there.

-Explain your decision to your PI very well without hating on PhDs but explaining your passion for medicine so you can get a strong recommendation (as long as you have done well up to now, he/she will probably be fair).

-Study hard and take the MCAT.


-Ace the masters, yes the grades don't count but they will if they are BAD!!

-Make more time for ECs etc, and then apply to some low to mid tier schools and see what happens. Your stats are not bad, you will probably get into a few schools

-In the mean time, try to stay out of the "I'm doomed" state of mind and seeking approval from us here in this forum or applying to law school, engineering school, MFA writing programs etc. Stay on task if you really want this!!

-Do not seek instant gratification, the road to medschool is long if you dont do it straight out of undergrad, but it will feel good when you get there (I think--I am not there yet myself ).

I hope this helps.

 

[Chrisebril1]

you should write text books. I think its your true calling. common you know its what you really want.

It didn't seem like a lot when I wrote it, but now that I go back through it, I see what you guys are talking about. Not surprised only a few people even took the time out of their day to read it.

I like to provide examples and all the facts.

I have an ISTJ personality type, (I and J are only around 65%, but I am a "80% sensor" and "100% thinker").




It sucks I came off as 'incapable' of finishing graduate school. That's not really the case, I just realized I don't want a PhD, especially one in this field and even more pertinent, not one from this school. There is nothing about this program that I don't feel like I couldn't handle. It's hard, yes, but I am excelling. Only reason I am out, is because I don't like it and would much rather be a physician.

Graduate school GPA is a certain 4.0.

I am here, so I have to make the adjustment which is probably going to involve earning a Masters degree. Even more distressing is I am going to spend ~ 2 years, but I have to make the adjustments to put together a competitive application. Studying time for the MCAT (which means I can't be spending 40-60 hours a week in the lab, 12+ hours in class or studying, and volunteering/shadowing.





I am considering DO schools. I am in Florida resident.

There isn't much I can do about GPA.
177 credit hours in undergrad. 6 of those credit hours were Satisfactory/Unsatisfactory).
I spent a 5th year in undergrad and took 43 credit hours and earned a Bachelors degree in Psychology.

Over that 5th year (3 semesters, Summer = 13, Fall = 16, Spring = 14), I ended up with a 3.978 GPA (All A's except for an A- in Public Speaking).

AMCAS
oGPA = 3.449
BCPM = 3.381
AACOMAS
oGPA = 3.449
BCPM = 3.384

Freshman = 3.074
Sophomore = 3.468
Junior = 3.275 (Transferred to UF from a different four year university).
Senior = 3.664

• 4th year = 3.324
• 5th year = 3.978

My BCPM GPA gradually increased from freshman year, but the average never got to the point where it should be.
Freshman BCPM = 3.067
Sophomore BCPM = 3.337
Junior BCPM = 3.367
Senior BCPM (all were taken in the 4th year, as my 5th year was all Psychology) = 3.528


If I take 32 undergraduate credit hours and get all A's, I can boost my AMCAS oGPA to 3.535 and my BCPM gpa to 3.523.

That would leave me with 2 years (75 credit hours) of ~4.0 GPA.

If I retake courses, clearly it would increase my AACOMAS GPA, but I never did really badly on any classes. I was just steady average B+ GPA.

I never scored less than a B- (and only 2 of those) in BCPM classes, and the only C+ I earned that is considered a BCPM is Calc 1, which isn't even considered science by AACOMAS, so I don't know what I am going to do about that...


Any suggestions?

Like I said, 4.0 is almost certain here in this masters program. But it's not a SMP, it's a standard masters program so from what I understand, it's not weighted very heavily.


My primary concern is clinical experience, volunteering and studying for the MCAT.

Going to apply this upcoming cycle (April 2011).

Any suggestions? I don't think my ECs will be strong enough at that point for my application to be competitive, regardless of what MCAT I get.

 

[gvku]

It sucks I came off as 'incapable' of finishing graduate school. That's not really the case, I just realized I don't want a PhD, especially one in this field and even more pertinent, not one from this school. There is nothing about this program that I don't feel like I couldn't handle. It's hard, yes, but I am excelling. Only reason I am out, is because I don't like it and would much rather be a physician. .

My apologies there if I came off too harsh. I can see how this is eating you inside. Get the masters and get out! I am sure you could stay and get the PhD but you are repelling that idea so bad that it is getting in the way of you being productive and thinking positively.

Graduate school GPA is a certain 4.0.

Good keep it there till graduation from the masters.

I am here, so I have to make the adjustment which is probably going to involve earning a Masters degree.Studying time for the MCAT (which means I can't be spending 40-60 hours a week in the lab, 12+ hours in class or studying, and volunteering/shadowing.

I am starting to see light at the end of this tunnel. Prioritizing is getting into play.

Any suggestions? I don't think my ECs will be strong enough at that point for my application to be competitive, regardless of what MCAT I get.

With 60+ of lab time freed up and 15+ of teaching freed up, you should have plenty of time to get all the ECs you can imagine to make your app shine. See, you are so gonna be a Doc! Shadow a doctor, volunteer at a free clinic, etc stuff like that. Good luck!!