Poor Comlex score, chances of ER residency

[futuredoc406]

So i just got my step one score back, they were not at all what i was expecting. I scored lower then a 430. What are my chances of getting an EM rotation someday and what can I do to help myself out. Chances are if I did this poorly on Comlex that I won't perform that well on USMLE. Do i even have a shot at EM any more or is that dream lost to the wind? If i still have a chance, who knows the best EM residencies that will give me a look. Currently I am doing very well in clinical but i am only a few weeks into third year. Any advice would be great

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[Trogghunter]

So i just got my step one score back, they were not at all what i was expecting. I scored lower then a 430. What are my chances of getting an EM rotation someday and what can I do to help myself out. Chances are if I did this poorly on Comlex that I won't perform that well on USMLE. Do i even have a shot at EM any more or is that dream lost to the wind? If i still have a chance, who knows the best EM residencies that will give me a look. Currently I am doing very well in clinical but i am only a few weeks into third year. Any advice would be great

Just set up audition rotations and impress the attendings there. Audition at the biggest programs possible because the smaller ones might close with the merger. You should also take step 2 early and if you do very well, like >600 then that would offset your step 1. EM programs value step 2 more anyway. So, good step 2 + doing well on audition rotations and good letters = successful match at a decent ER program.

 

[schwasted589]

So i just got my step one score back, they were not at all what i was expecting. I scored lower then a 430. What are my chances of getting an EM rotation someday and what can I do to help myself out. Chances are if I did this poorly on Comlex that I won't perform that well on USMLE. Do i even have a shot at EM any more or is that dream lost to the wind? If i still have a chance, who knows the best EM residencies that will give me a look. Currently I am doing very well in clinical but i am only a few weeks into third year. Any advice would be great

Im in a similar situation. Didn't take USMLE because I wasn't scoring as well as I wanted on it and figured my comlex score would be okay because I had done well on practice tests/questions. Ended up scoring below a 450. And now I'm really worried, too.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

According to my advisor: AOA community programs across all specialties don't care about comlex scores nearly as much as students think they do.

This isnt the MD world where programs get thousands of applicants. Although still relatively competitive, passing scores, a good personality and a firm handshake during interviews are often much more important that being the absolute highest scoring test taker in the applicant pool.

 

[GUH]

According to my advisor: AOA community programs across all specialties don't care about comlex scores nearly as much as students think they do.

This isnt the MD world where programs get thousands of applicants. Although still relatively competitive, passing scores, a good personality and a firm handshake during interviews are often much more important that being the absolute highest scoring test taker in the applicant pool.

What throws a little bit of uncertainty into this is the merger. For someone who just got his level 1 score, the graduation/match year is 2017.

1) Some current AOA programs might not be AOA anymore.
2) It is hard for a current student to know for certain whether a given community AOA program will survive the merger. I hope that most will, but it's something that has been bugging me as someone who may match to a community rather than an academic AOA residency.

Maybe these concerns are not valid; I would love to hear any good reasons why they aren't.

 

[dfib slim]

What throws a little bit of uncertainty into this is the merger. For someone who just got his level 1 score, the graduation/match year is 2017.

1) Some current AOA programs might not be AOA anymore.
2) It is hard for a current student to know for certain whether a given community AOA program will survive the merger. I hope that most will, but it's something that has been bugging me as someone who may match to a community rather than an academic AOA residency.

Maybe these concerns are not valid; I would love to hear any good reasons why they aren't.

You can always check http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm to see if and when certain residencies intend to apply for ACGME accreditation.

 

[NurWollen]

What throws a little bit of uncertainty into this is the merger. For someone who just got his level 1 score, the graduation/match year is 2017.

1) Some current AOA programs might not be AOA anymore.
2) It is hard for a current student to know for certain whether a given community AOA program will survive the merger. I hope that most will, but it's something that has been bugging me as someone who may match to a community rather than an academic AOA residency.

Maybe these concerns are not valid; I would love to hear any good reasons why they aren't.

It's funny. You know I've been pretty pro-merger this whole time, but now that I'm a 3rd year and will be applying for residency within a year, all your concerns seem much more valid. I've been making a list of AOA programs I like in case I only apply for the NMS match. Then I realize that I have no way to know if it will be part of the NMS match or not. And somewhere deep inside I start to resent the faceless MDs who will be competing with me for those spots.

You can always check http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm to see if and when certain residencies intend to apply for ACGME accreditation.

Most of them aren't very updated. Speaking of which, have any applied already? Haven't they already been ablr to apply as of the 1st? Has anyone heard anything on this? And if they do apply, how long does the process for full ACGME accreditation take?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I know it's much easier said than done, but why not just apply to ACGME programs and forget about AOA? Avoid the uncertainty

 

[dfib slim]

Most of them aren't very updated. Speaking of which, have any applied already? Haven't they already been ablr to apply as of the 1st? Has anyone heard anything on this? And if they do apply, how long does the process for full ACGME accreditation take?

I had popped in to check ENT ones. A few had dates for when they plan on applying. SCS/MSUCOM/Metro Health Hospital in Wyoming, MI doesn't plan on applying at all. PCOM applied in July, but not sure how long the process takes. Most of them still say "not available".

 

[dfib slim]

I know it's much easier said than done, but why not just apply to ACGME programs and forget about AOA? Avoid the uncertainty

No USMLE and low COMLEX scores, seems risky.

 

[NurWollen]

I know it's much easier said than done, but why not just apply to ACGME programs and forget about AOA? Avoid the uncertainty

Well, obviously it depends on your scores.

 

[NurWollen]

I had popped in to check ENT ones. A few had dates for when they plan on applying. SCS/MSUCOM/Metro Health Hospital in Wyoming, MI doesn't plan on applying at all. PCOM applied in July, but not sure how long the process takes. Most of them still say "not available".

Really? That sucks. Are they just going to stop recruiting and let the current residents finish, or what?

 

[dfib slim]

Really? That sucks. Are they just going to stop recruiting and let the current residents finish, or what?

I haven't been keeping up with the whole merger thing. Is there some sort of deadline to become accredited or close? I think the programs who know they aren't getting accreditation will just stop taking new residents and let the current ones finish. And at least they stated their intentions instead of surprising a PGY1.

 

[Jamers]

Comlex scores are not the only thing one looks at during an interview process. Sure, in some residencies they are the main measuring stick but in other, smaller residencies the rest of the application is just as important. I don't remember my scores exactly but I remember they were not stellar; I know I scored MUCH higher on my board certifying examinations. My advice then would be to go for it but have a backup plan in place just in case.

 

[NurWollen]

I haven't been keeping up with the whole merger thing. Is there some sort of deadline to become accredited or close? I think the programs who know they aren't getting accreditation will just stop taking new residents and let the current ones finish. And at least they stated their intentions instead of surprising a PGY1.

They have until 2020.

 

[EMapplicant117]

It's funny. You know I've been pretty pro-merger this whole time, but now that I'm a 3rd year and will be applying for residency within a year, all your concerns seem much more valid. I've been making a list of AOA programs I like in case I only apply for the NMS match. Then I realize that I have no way to know if it will be part of the NMS match or not. And somewhere deep inside I start to resent the faceless MDs who will be competing with me for those spots.



Most of them aren't very updated. Speaking of which, have any applied already? Haven't they already been ablr to apply as of the 1st? Has anyone heard anything on this? And if they do apply, how long does the process for full ACGME accreditation take?

Some programs, such as St. Luke's in Pennsylvania, used to have an AOA and ACGME programs in parallel. (Same program but AOA was 4 years and ACGME was 3.) They recently dropped the AOA program and will be accepting only ACGME applicants coming this cycle.

 

[abolt18]

I know at my hospital, they have 6 programs under the Still OPTI, and they're working with a local MD school to be under them instead because of the financial burden of transitioning. They also will not be applying for osteopathic recognition because of the financial challenges and ridiculous hoops that have to be jumped through for osteopathic recognition. Apparently it's now going to be more work to get osteopathic recognition than it is to have AOA accreditation. The way things look, 3 of the programs at our hospital will remain stand alone programs (but under the MD school) while the other 3 will be absorbed into the existing programs at the local university.

 

[NurWollen]

.

 

[NurWollen]

Some programs, such as St. Luke's in Pennsylvania, used to have an AOA and ACGME programs in parallel. (Same program but AOA was 4 years and ACGME was 3.) They recently dropped the AOA program and will be accepting only ACGME applicants coming this cycle.

I know at my hospital, they have 6 programs under the Still OPTI, and they're working with a local MD school to be under them instead because of the financial burden of transitioning. They also will not be applying for osteopathic recognition because of the financial challenges and ridiculous hoops that have to be jumped through for osteopathic recognition. Apparently it's now going to be more work to get osteopathic recognition than it is to have AOA accreditation. The way things look, 3 of the programs at our hospital will remain stand alone programs (but under the MD school) while the other 3 will be absorbed into the existing programs at the local university.

So they decided to make Osteopathic Recognition stricter than AOA accreditation?

 

[Dharma]

Just to address some of the concerns brought up earlier: there is not going to a unified match anytime soon. Not this decade at least. The real concern is whether the AOA programs of your interest will exist or not in the next 4+ years. Many programs will be closing shop or find themselves on the chopping block, likely before any unification of matches occurs. This is where the risk lies. Competition isn't the issue.

Good program? No worries. Except competition

 

[NurWollen]

Just to address some of the concerns brought up earlier: there is not going to a unified match anytime soon. Not this decade at least. The real concern is whether the AOA programs of your interest will exist or not in the next 4+ years. Many programs will be closing shop or find themselves on the chopping block, likely before any unification of matches occurs. This is where the risk lies. Competition isn't the issue.

Good program? No worries. Except competition

Do we know this? If most programs get ACGME accreditation in the next year or two, wouldn't they then switch over to the NRMP match, I know this is the general pereption. Has this been confirmed or denied? If 70% of the current AOA programs I'm interested in switch over to the NMRP match, then it does make a difference for my (2017) class.

 

[Elevencents]

Take this for what it is, but someone clued in to the merger said class of 2018 could see it happen when they match.

 

[abolt18]

They said in the webinar that as programs transition from pre-accredidation to initial accreditation, they will move from the AOA match to the NRMP. So it won't be a big 'bam! There's one match' but a slow transition. (Don't forget there's still the military and San Francisco match which are already separate)

 

[235009]

It's funny. You know I've been pretty pro-merger this whole time, but now that I'm a 3rd year and will be applying for residency within a year, all your concerns seem much more valid.

Gotta say I told you so. Ignorance is bliss when you're a premed or preclinical student. It's a lot easier to be an optimistic cheerleader when you haven't started med school or taken step 1 yet and are absolutely sure you're gonna be top of your class and the first DO neurosurgery resident at Columbia

 

[NurWollen]

Gotta say I told you so. Ignorance is bliss when you're a premed or preclinical student. It's a lot easier to be an optimistic cheerleader when you haven't started med school or taken step 1 yet and are absolutely sure you're gonna be top of your class and the first DO neurosurgery resident at Columbia

If you did in fact "tell us so," then touche. I still think the merger is a good thing but it does make things a little more complicated when planning ahead for residency apps. And it does suck if certain programs close because they can't meet ACGME standards, or worse, to want to bother.

 

[NurWollen]

They said in the webinar that as programs transition from pre-accredidation to initial accreditation, they will move from the AOA match to the NRMP. So it won't be a big 'bam! There's one match' but a slow transition. (Don't forget there's still the military and San Francisco match which are already separate)

I guess my question is, how long will it take for programs to get full accreditation from when they get preliminary accreditation? 6 months? A year? The whole 5 years?

 

[abolt18]

I guess my question is, how long will it take for programs to get full accreditation from when they get preliminary accreditation? 6 months? A year? The whole 5 years?

Well they get pre-accreditation automatically as soon as they apply. It sounded like it may take close to a year for them to receive initial accreditation between site visits and all the paperwork or whatever. Probably too early to tell for certain on all this, but still something they said during the webinar.

@MeatTornado I'm still totally in support of this merger in spite of the growing pains we'll certainly experience. I think and hope in the end, it will be better for physicians as a whole.

 

[hallowmann]

Wow. I go away for a couple rotations and people are freaking out. Most programs I've talked to are planning to apply. Some aren't sure, and very few have simply thrown in the towel.

Those of us in 2017 will be fine for any 3-yr residencies, because I don't know of any FM or IM programs I've heard from that were planning to call it quits.

4 or 5 yr programs are a bit riskier, especially if we're talking surg. We'll know more as time goes on, but take it easy people.

Remember, right now its been about 1 month since programs could apply, and first the sponsoring entity must apply and get approval before the programs under it can apply (either that or a program makes an agreement to have a different sponsoring entity like an MD school).

So far I think 20 AOA programs have applied for ACGME accreditation. That's not bad considering it's been 1 month, the transition process is 5 yrs, there are only 1200 AOA programs, and most that want to apply will likely have to get their sponsoring institution approved first before they can.

 

[CopToEM]

Wow. I go away for a couple rotations and people are freaking out. Most programs I've talked to are planning to apply. Some aren't sure, and very few have simply thrown in the towel.

Those of us in 2017 will be fine for any 3-yr residencies, because I don't know of any FM or IM programs I've heard from that were planning to call it quits.

4 or 5 yr programs are a bit riskier, especially if we're talking surg. We'll know more as time goes on, but take it easy people.

Remember, right now its been about 1 month since programs could apply, and first the sponsoring entity must apply and get approval before the programs under it can apply (either that or a program makes an agreement to have a different sponsoring entity like an MD school).

So far I think 20 AOA programs have applied for ACGME accreditation. That's not bad considering it's been 1 month, the transition process is 5 yrs, there are only 1200 AOA programs, and most that want to apply will likely have to get their sponsoring institution approved first before they can.

Three EM programs, rumored to be a fourth, announced last week they're throwing in the towel. One of them is closing all together and directly cited the merger. The two other definite programs were dually accredited and divorced the AOA. The fourth is rumored to be switching their EM funding to additional FM spots - assumably because of less stringent ACGME requirements.

I don't think anyone is freaking out. I think people are nervous for realistic reasons.

 

[CopToEM]

Three EM programs, rumored to be a fourth, announced last week they're throwing in the towel. One of them is closing all together and directly cited the merger. The two other definite programs were dually accredited and divorced the AOA. The fourth is rumored to be switching their EM funding to additional FM spots - assumably because of less stringent ACGME requirements. Three of these programs are "larger" programs as the AOA goes.

I don't think anyone is freaking out. I think people are nervous for realistic reasons.

 

[SnowDoggy44]

Wow. I go away for a couple rotations and people are freaking out. Most programs I've talked to are planning to apply. Some aren't sure, and very few have simply thrown in the towel.

Those of us in 2017 will be fine for any 3-yr residencies, because I don't know of any FM or IM programs I've heard from that were planning to call it quits.

4 or 5 yr programs are a bit riskier, especially if we're talking surg. We'll know more as time goes on, but take it easy people.

Remember, right now its been about 1 month since programs could apply, and first the sponsoring entity must apply and get approval before the programs under it can apply (either that or a program makes an agreement to have a different sponsoring entity like an MD school).

So far I think 20 AOA programs have applied for ACGME accreditation. That's not bad considering it's been 1 month, the transition process is 5 yrs, there are only 1200 AOA programs, and most that want to apply will likely have to get their sponsoring institution approved first before they can.

You can track pre-accreditation progress here https://www.acgme.org/ads/Public

So far 3 EM, 3 FM, 3 IM, 3 RADIOLOGY, 1 OPHTHO, 1 ENT, 6 SURGERY, 1 UROLOGY.

More details of the single accreditation system and transition can be found here https://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PDFs/Nasca-Community/FAQs.pdf

 

[SnowDoggy44]

Really? That sucks. Are they just going to stop recruiting and let the current residents finish, or what?

I heard the same thing from a ENT resident there. 2015 was their last match year and it would be too costly to the hospital to continue the program to obtain/maintain ACGME accreditation so they will finish out with their AOA accreditation into 2020 then that's it. I don't know if they plan to divert funds/efforts into other program(s) though.

 

[hallowmann]

Three EM programs, rumored to be a fourth, announced last week they're throwing in the towel. One of them is closing all together and directly cited the merger. The two other definite programs were dually accredited and divorced the AOA. The fourth is rumored to be switching their EM funding to additional FM spots - assumably because of less stringent ACGME requirements.

I don't think anyone is freaking out. I think people are nervous for realistic reasons.

All I'm saying is its a bit pre-mature to be freaked out about this. Anyone who has kept track of AOA programs for the last few years knows that many close for lots of reasons every year, and some new ones open every year. I know of places that long before the merger was decided on switched all their Rads spots over to IM/FM. Its honestly something that happens (it even happens in the ACGME world). We might see a bit of an uptick in it over the next couple years because programs on the fence see this as a good opportunity to bail, but again its a bit premature to worry about it having a huge effect on students just yet.