Potential List of Residencies

[ADr.1Day]

Hello fellow SDN’ers.
I have been a little reluctant to post here, but I am letting the stress get the best of me. I know many may feel it is a bit early but, I like the idea of having a plan in order. So I am a third year medical student. More specifically I am a DO student, URM, POC, female, first generation to go to college, and first in my family’s history to even pursue medicine. I have degree in Foreign Languages, I am bilingual and fluent, I have strong presence and Ideally would like to be a director of a program in the future.

I don’t plan to take USMLE. I passed the COMLEX. I have no major research under my belt aside from helping out on projects, behind the scenes and data collection from undergrads, and presenting a poster about street diversion of opioids in the Greater WA area. I’m NOT looking for a prestigious, large, research heavy, university type program, where I can easily be lost among 40-60 other residents. I really just want to be a good health care provider to my patients and provide them with great quality care.

My goal is IM. I also have an interest in Gas & Pulm Crit.


Santa Clara Valley Medical Center; CA
Virginia Mason Franciscan Health; Tacoma WA
Sacred Heart/ Spokane Teaching Center; Spokane WA
Legacy Emmanuel; Portland OR
OHSU Hillsboro; Portland OR
Samaritan Health Services, Corvallis OR
Providence Health; Portland OR
Parkview Medical Center; CO
St. Joseph Hospital Program; Denver CO
Providence Health St. Vincent; Portland OR
Univ of OK; Tulsa OK
St. Bernard’s Med Center, Jonesboro AR
Abrazo Health Network; Glendale AZ
MWU Canyon Vista; Sierra Vista
MWU Mountain Vista
Creighton University; Phoenix AZ
Mountain View Regional; Las Cruces NM
KCU GME- Consortium Freeman; Joplin MO
OK State Univ; Tulsa OK
Prisma Health Univ of SC; Greenville SC
Novant Health Regional New Hanover Med Center; Wilmington NC
Cone Health Program; Greensboro NC
Augusta Univ/Univ of GA Med Partnership; Augusta GA
Advant Health; Orlando FL
Manatee Memorial Hospital; Bradenton FL


I guess my questions are:
Did I consider enough programs?
How do people really research programs and find out that it’s what you may potentially want?
Any PD’s, other 3rd years or even 4th years have suggestions?

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[hellosnd]

I took step/comlex scored 70-80th quartile for both, but was still advised to apply to 50 programs (didn't include many academic ones, focused mostly on community). you definitely need more programs.

Reach out to current residents, esp after you get in an interview.

As a third year, just chill. you have a whole 8 months before you gotta worry about this stuff

 

[hellosnd]

Also, legacy is in porland im pretty sure

 

[ADr.1Day]

I took step/comlex scored 70-80th quartile for both, but was still advised to apply to 50 programs (didn't include many academic ones, focused mostly on community). you definitely need more programs.

Reach out to current residents, esp after you get in an interview.

As a third year, just chill. you have a whole 8 months before you gotta worry about this stuff

Thank you for replying. I like to make sure I am a little prepared or know what expect. I’m gauging the thread to see what other’s are doing because I have been told by faculty at my school, that I wouldn’t need to apply to more than 20 ish programs.

What are your thoughts @Mr.Smile12 ?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you for replying. I like to make sure I am a little prepared or know what expect. I’m gauging the thread to see what other’s are doing because I have been told by faculty at my school, that I wouldn’t need to apply to more than 20 ish programs.

What are your thoughts @Mr.Smile12 ?

Hello! GME is not my beat, so I really appreciate the mention.

Your faculty know how your profile shapes up historically versus other applicants similar to you in performance and other qualities so I have no reason to override their opinion.

Fortunately AOA has a lot of general knowledge they share:
How these DO students matched to their top-choice residencies - The DO

I guess you can start doing a broader search if you want, but I would still check out opinions from current residents. Networking at meetings helps if you can. Check with colleagues in affinity organizations like SNMA or AMWA. Or any IM groups.

Residency search | sgim.org

Learn more about Residency search at sgim.org

www.sgim.org

Do a search geographically if you want to find any residencies outside of academic medical centers. Look up ads posted in specialty forums or journals.

Keep your student dean in the loop as you are researching to make your list. You need their help with your reference letter/MSPE.

 

[chilly_md]

Thread moved to the Medical Students (DO) forum.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

If you are not taking USMLE, alot of University and great community IM programs will screen you out. So I'd advise somewhere north of 70+ programs on your list focusing on mostly community programs.

Additionally, your dream of becoming a program director would include going to the best university program that you can with the plan to go into academics and work your way up. This plan is thwarted with only applying with COMLEX.

 

[ADr.1Day]

Hello! GME is not my beat, so I really appreciate the mention.

Your faculty know how your profile shapes up historically versus other applicants similar to you in performance and other qualities so I have no reason to override their opinion.

Fortunately AOA has a lot of general knowledge they share:
How these DO students matched to their top-choice residencies - The DO

I guess you can start doing a broader search if you want, but I would still check out opinions from current residents. Networking at meetings helps if you can. Check with colleagues in affinity organizations like SNMA or AMWA. Or any IM groups.

Residency search | sgim.org

Learn more about Residency search at sgim.org

www.sgim.org

Do a search geographically if you want to find any residencies outside of academic medical centers. Look up ads posted in specialty forums or journals.

Keep your student dean in the loop as you are researching to make your list. You need their help with your reference letter/MSPE.

Ahhh, yes. Thank you kindly for the words of wisdom. I am apart of SNMA but maybe at the next regional meeting I can do a little more networking.

I have tried a few databases to weed out large academic teaching centers. One of the other things I was a bit concerned about was matching somewhere and not being able to afford housing. Many of the programs I had on my first listen (about 60-70) I had to peel off because COL was just outrageous. The only geographical areas I was trying to avoid were Super NE and Mid West. I am a southerner, born and raised. I don’t think I can deal with blizzard weather lol. Although I am surviving in the PNW , I don’t think it is as harsh as the Midwest would be.

Again thank you for sharing.

 

[ADr.1Day]

If you are not taking USMLE, alot of University and great community IM programs will screen you out. So I'd advise somewhere north of 70+ programs on your list focusing on mostly community programs.

Additionally, your dream of becoming a program director would include going to the best university program that you can with the plan to go into academics and work your way up. This plan is thwarted with only applying with COMLEX.

Ahhhhhh @DrStephenStrange, I have been reading up on your journey for a while now. Congratulations on your Match.
So, I was originally thinking of taking the USMLE but when it went P/F with COMLEX I really just felt like it was pointless. My perception was PD’s wouldn’t have much to compare it to the MD applcants. At any rate, I wouldn’t say it is my “dream” to become a PD but the thought is definitely there. I think my mindset and personality is one of those individuals who doesn’t really care for extreme competitiveness/ prestige in the academia. Just a warm, inviting program, where patient care is centered, I can trust my colleagues, and of course a solid knowledge base.

 

[DO2015CA]

Ahhhhhh @DrStephenStrange, I have been reading up on your journey for a while now. Congratulations on your Match.
So, I was originally thinking of taking the USMLE but when it went P/F with COMLEX I really just felt like it was pointless. My perception was PD’s wouldn’t have much to compare it to the MD applcants. At any rate, I wouldn’t say it is my “dream” to become a PD but the thought is definitely there. I think my mindset and personality is one of those individuals who doesn’t really care for extreme competitiveness/ prestige in the academia. Just a warm, inviting program, where patient care is centered, I can trust my colleagues, and of course a solid knowledge base.

It is kicking the can down the road. Programs will just check the filter took usmle and expect you to pass. Then also take step 2 and do well. The differentiation point becomes step 2 and the expectation that everyone passed step 1 on the first try… or at least that’s the argument I have seen on threads here.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Ahhhhhh @DrStephenStrange, I have been reading up on your journey for a while now. Congratulations on your Match.
So, I was originally thinking of taking the USMLE but when it went P/F with COMLEX I really just felt like it was pointless. My perception was PD’s wouldn’t have much to compare it to the MD applcants. At any rate, I wouldn’t say it is my “dream” to become a PD but the thought is definitely there. I think my mindset and personality is one of those individuals who doesn’t really care for extreme competitiveness/ prestige in the academia. Just a warm, inviting program, where patient care is centered, I can trust my colleagues, and of course a solid knowledge base.

Thanks!

The thing is even if it's P/F, if a program cared about step 1 when it was scored, they're not gonna change now. They could easily filter applications, by just checking a box that says passed step 1. Everyone who failed or never took it would just fall off their screen. Then they can use step 2 for further stratification of the other applicants. It was shown before that even with barely passing step 1 as a DO (when it was scored) was better than not having it.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

COMLEX + Community program + no research is not likely to match pulm/cc

 

[ADr.1Day]

Thanks!

The thing is even if it's P/F, if a program cared about step 1 when it was scored, they're not gonna change now. They could easily filter applications, by just checking a box that says passed step 1. Everyone who failed or never took it would just fall off their screen. Then they can use step 2 for further stratification of the other applicants. It was shown before that even with barely passing step 1 as a DO (when it was scored) was better than not having it.

It is kicking the can down the road. Programs will just check the filter took usmle and expect you to pass. Then also take step 2 and do well. The differentiation point becomes step 2 and the expectation that everyone passed step 1 on the first try… or at least that’s the argument I have seen on threads here.

@DrStephenStrange and @DO2015CA I totally understand what you are saying. Trust me we all have debated this with professors and among our class. I think the consensus was to take step 2 as step 1 isn’t required in order to take step 2. I have tried to minimize the damage by researching all of the programs on my list. I am focusing on programs that have DO grads, several DO enrolled currently, DO PDs or APDs, and who explicitly state USMLE or COMLEX if you are an Osteopath. Although I know they can still choose to weed out those who didn’t take the USMLE.

COMLEX + Community program + no research is not likely to match pulm/cc

Uffff and @AlbinoHawk DO hits me with a very serious reality. Is it not possible to dabble in some research and or build a mentorship with a sub-specialist while in residency and increase my chances? That was my initial thought. Also I have added another 25 schools to my list and many of them are University affiliated although a community setting.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

@DrStephenStrange and @DO2015CA I totally understand what you are saying. Trust me we all have debated this with professors and among our class. I think the consensus was to take step 2 as step 1 isn’t required in order to take step 2. I have tried to minimize the damage by researching all of the programs on my list. I am focusing on programs that have DO grads, several DO enrolled currently, DO PDs or APDs, and who explicitly state USMLE or COMLEX if you are an Osteopath. Although I know they can still choose to weed out those who didn’t take the USMLE.


Uffff and @AlbinoHawk DO hits me with a very serious reality. Is it not possible to dabble in some research and or build a mentorship with a sub-specialist while in residency and increase my chances? That was my initial thought. Also I have added another 25 schools to my list and many of them are University affiliated although a community setting.

Would be hard to do productive research at a community program from what I’ve seen. Of course there are exceptions like Hopkins bayview, ucla harbour, cedars sinai etc. but these programs are either communiversity or outliers. The problem is that a large amount of community hospital physicians are there because they don’t necessarily like conducting research

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Uffff and @AlbinoHawk DO hits me with a very serious reality. Is it not possible to dabble in some research and or build a mentorship with a sub-specialist while in residency and increase my chances? That was my initial thought. Also I have added another 25 schools to my list and many of them are University affiliated although a community setting.

Right now PCCM is considered to be as competitive (or more) than Cardiology and GI. I don't think just a "dabble" will get you to match. You can try an unorthodox route into critical care such as working for a few years at a center with an open ICU or doing nephrology/CCM, but they are no guarantee to work. There's some ID/CCM programs but they are very hard to match

I would strongly suggest going to a university program with an affiliated PCCM program if you're serious about this route

 

[Angus Avagadro]

IM as a pgy 1 to go into gas? Or IM then Pulm CC? You can do CCM fellowship after gas, but many in CCM believe Pulm is the way to go for jobs and faculty positions. Personally, I don't see the big difference between day to day management and OR management. As far as a PD, they aren't building more university hospitals, but Uni Affiliates are increasing. Some are very good. Becoming a PD might not be quite as rigorous as becoming chairman where pedigree would be more important. (No offense to any PDs reading this). A graduate of a uni affiliate might be able to land a spot as a PD at their home program, but I wouldn't consider that part of my plan as I would consider this a risky play.

TLDR...I think your plan for taking COMLEX only won't get you where you want to go. I think you need to regroup. Lots of very good advice from posters above. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[ADr.1Day]

Well, it appears that I am still in the middle of this obstacle course.
Thank you, everyone. I genuinely appreciate all of the friendly advice given above. It is certainly a tough pill to swallow and I obviously have a lot of thinking to do.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Try to match a low tier university IM program… examples are Univ of Mississippi, Nebraska, Uf-Jax, UNLV. I would audition at such a program and hope to match there, as these programs(with all fellowships available in house ) are uni programs with DO’s and take comlex only applicants from what I remember from my time applying

 

[vkarp]

COMLEX + Community program + no research is not likely to match pulm/cc

How about COMLEX + Community program + Research??

 

[DrStephenStrange]

How about COMLEX + Community program + Research??

Community program is the biggest crippling factor. Research is just cherry on top.

 

[diesel2202]

Community program is the biggest crippling factor. Research is just cherry on top.

This. Community programs often are not going to be as recognized as academic institutions. They are less likely to have nationally recognized staff and typically have fewer research opportunities. With that said, can definitely still get to fellowship going to a Community program. It's just a bigger challenge. Would focus on Community programs that have in-house fellowship as program directors speak to each other.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

How about COMLEX + Community program + Research??

No, people need to stop thinking that a few projects will make a huge difference to their applications. The type of program that would consider an applicant from a community program with only COMLEX is unlikely to have a research heavy focus. Now if we were talking about going from academic center to a program in another academic center, research would have stronger value

 

[ADr.1Day]

This. Community programs often are not going to be as recognized as academic institutions. They are less likely to have nationally recognized staff and typically have fewer research opportunities. With that said, can definitely still get to fellowship going to a Community program. It's just a bigger challenge. Would focus on Community programs that have in-house fellowship as program directors speak to each other.

This is essentially what I am doing. I have about 20 programs w/ internal fellowship paths on my list. I'm a solid catch, and I'm quite passionate about what I do and want to achieve. I'm totally fine serving rural communities in the NW.

@vkarp use your networking skills, and circle to gather more information until then.

 

[Z2911BME]

I would say you are limiting yourself and future by not taking Step 1 unfortunately. If by gas you mean gastroenterology, it’s a highly applied to fellowship and my understanding is while you do not need Step 1 to take Step 2, you do need it to take Step 3 which is something that can give you better chances of matching. If it’s anesthesia, that’s also not an “easy” match. Either way, there is a fear a “passed step 1” screening algorithm could be utilized by programs to widdle down the applicant pool. I also go to a DO school and have had many conversations with residents/PDs who “strongly” recommend taking and passing on first attempt. Just good for thought. Congrats on all your success thus far and best wishes!!!