Pros of military medicine

[orbitsurgMD]

It is you who needs to use your little cerebral cortex to understand the whole situation. Instead of reading my one post, Einstein, read the forum.

We all want the better military health system. . . .

As for militaryMD latest solution . . . You won't be taking that motor bike toy of yours to the battlefield not that you would volunteer.

What's next the military food sucks too--recruit world class chef to the battlefield?? well I forgot most of these doctors never spent time doing field medicine .

Pro of Military Medicine: Taking care of greatest patient of the world while helping to lead the solider as an officer during war time.

(Bolds mine)


Before posting like a gasbag, Haujun, you should post some of your creds first. What have you done before your PGY2? I would just like to know where someone like you comes from to criticize another poster who has done field/fleet and has also done a residency.

I see you haven't posted to the who's who. Now might be a good time unless you want to enjoy the ignomy of those like IgD, who hasn't yet found the courage to do so.

I don't see how you have the standing to say what you've said to anyone who has done field service.

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[Galo]

It is you who needs to use your little cerebral cortex to understand the whole situation. Instead of reading my one post, Einstein, read the forum.

We all want the better military health system. I am working at it one patient at a time and continue to work "with" one administator at a time. What are you doing?? The bottom line is that I do not support their radical solutions!!! I am not going to make it easy for you. Read about them if you care.

As for militaryMD latest solution (depend the military medical care to civilian docs) this concept goes directly against military doctor role as an officer and a doctor. I wonder how many civilian doctors would volunteer to go to war or deployments to support our soliders then??? To MilMD You won't be taking that motor bike toy of yours to the battlefield not that you would volunteer.

What's next the military food sucks too--recruit world class chef to the battlefield?? well I forgot most of these doctors never spent time doing field medicine .

Pro of Military Medicine: Taking care of greatest patient of the world while helping to lead the solider as an officer during war time.

Man, you and idg sure make for some good laughs. You two are so incredibly blind to what's in front of you that you can't see past the problems, and you are inherently one of the problems. Hajun, do you not realize what tricare is, and that now there is a budget in congress to outsource active duty military to the civilian sector. This is something that is happening with increasing frequency even now. I can't tell you how many millions of dollars were sent out of our MTF's for pure an simple general surgery problems that would totally bypass the clinic. Simple endoscopies were in the hundreds. When we wanted to start gastric bypass, it took two years of red tape, and blockage by one of the military's worst surgeon who happened to be in command, and over 5 million dollars lost per year in what is a covered benefit. You and idg are truly beyond help, and insulting you further will only empower you.

Idg, like I said before, stay on your meds. You've got some real future problems coming your way. You are pretty much headed for an epiphany that will rock your world so bad, you will not recover. You'll be in the military for life, and continue to be part of a problem you really do not seem to understand.

Navyfp, earlier you mentioned that most of us who post our bad experiences think that any doc joining the military is either incompetent or a *****. Actually, this is not the case. Certainly you have people like idg and hajun that exude that attitude right from the start. However, I believe the vast majority of people joining, are good to great to begin with, are 100% deluded, lied to, tricked, bamboozled, etc etc, into expecting something that is far inferior to what they get. During the enslavement, most will become less able to practice medicine well, but most will get out in time before permanent damage is done. Again, there are a few, who like moth to a flame will enjoy the power that rank gives them, and have medicine as a far second calling to officership, mostly because plain and simple they are poor physicians and they know it. Then, probably the vast minority, are those who are acutually good physicians, and also good leaders, and bang their head against the wall for over 20 years. Just wanted to clarify that.

And if I need to restate my motivation for posting, its much like mildm. I want there to be so few people joining, that they are FORCED to change and improve the system. Right now, the american soldier and their dependents are getting one of the worst medical care systems in the world, (yes hajun, I'm sure there are worse), and they are the people who deserve the very best. I believe in their sacrifice for our nation, and think its deplorable the way they are medically treated. But what is worse, is people within the system that belive everything is fine, and nothing needs to change. I belive these are traitors, and in a time of war, they should be HANGED!!

 

[Galo]

It is you who needs to use your little cerebral cortex to understand the whole situation. Instead of reading my one post, Einstein, read the forum.

We all want the better military health system. I am working at it one patient at a time and continue to work "with" one administator at a time. What are you doing?? The bottom line is that I do not support their radical solutions!!! I am not going to make it easy for you. Read about them if you care.

As for militaryMD latest solution (depend the military medical care to civilian docs) this concept goes directly against military doctor role as an officer and a doctor. I wonder how many civilian doctors would volunteer to go to war or deployments to support our soliders then??? To MilMD You won't be taking that motor bike toy of yours to the battlefield not that you would volunteer.

What's next the military food sucks too--recruit world class chef to the battlefield?? well I forgot most of these doctors never spent time doing field medicine .

Pro of Military Medicine: Taking care of greatest patient of the world while helping to lead the solider as an officer during war time.

Man, you and idg sure make for some good laughs. You two are so incredibly blind to what's in front of you that you can't see past the problems, and you are inherently one of the problems. Hajun, do you not realize what tricare is, and that now there is a budget in congress to outsource active duty military to the civilian sector. This is something that is happening with increasing frequency even now. I can't tell you how many millions of dollars were sent out of our MTF's for pure an simple general surgery problems that would totally bypass the clinic. Simple endoscopies were in the hundreds. When we wanted to start gastric bypass, it took two years of red tape, and blockage by one of the military's worst surgeon who happened to be in command, and over 5 million dollars lost per year in what is a covered benefit. You and idg are truly beyond help, and insulting you further will only empower you.

Idg, like I said before, stay on your meds. You've got some real future problems coming your way. You are pretty much headed for an epiphany that will rock your world so bad, you will not recover. You'll be in the military for life, and continue to be part of a problem you really do not seem to understand.

Navyfp, earlier you mentioned that most of us who post our bad experiences think that any doc joining the military is either incompetent or a *****. I do not think that is the case. Certainly you have people like idg and hajun that exude that attitude right from the start. However, I believe the vast majority of people joining, are good to great to begin with, are 100% deluded, lied to, tricked, bamboozled, etc etc, into expecting something that is far inferior to what they get. During the enslavement, most will become less able to practice medicine well, but most will get out in time before permanent damage is done. Again, there are a few, who like moth to a flame will enjoy the power that rank gives them, and have medicine as a far second calling to officership, mostly because plain and simple they are poor physicians and they know it. Then, probably the vast minority, are those who are acutually good physicians, and also good leaders, and bang their head against the wall for over 20 years. Just wanted to clarify that.

And if I need to restate my motivation for posting, its much like mildm. I want there to be so few people joining, that they are FORCED to change and improve the system. Right now, the american soldier and their dependents are getting one of the worst medical care systems in the world, (yes hajun, I'm sure there are worse), and they are the people who deserve the very best. I believe in their sacrifice for our nation, and think its deplorable the way they are medically treated. But what is worse, is people within the system that believe everything is fine, and nothing needs to change. I believe these are traitors, and in a time of war, they should be HANGED!!

 

[Homunculus]

good grief people. and i thought toddlers were bad.

everyone go to their respective corners and take a time out for awhile.

--your friendly neighborhood disciplinarian caveman

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I wonder how many civilian doctors would volunteer to go to war or deployments to support our soliders then???

*raises hand* I would.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Taking care of greatest patient of the world while helping to lead the solider as an officer during war time.

Why is it then that all the really great docs I knew in the military (five of them- two pulmonologists, two EM docs, and a general surgeon) were not what I would classify as "great officers"? Actually one of the pulmonologists was probably the only bigger slacker when it came to military details than I was; I actually presented him with one of my "Dirtbag Airman" coins I had made when I got out (BTW I also traded the Chief of Staff of the Air Force one of his coins for one of mine. That was a funny experience, for which I got my ass chewed by my supervisor and my squadron commander). Being a great doc and a good officer are not compatible in most cases because of the natures of the duties involved.

 

[IgD]

MLK and Ghandi, I am still rolling on the floor laughing after you pulled than one out of your a*$.

The point is that these guys believed in non-aggression. The critics here claim they believe in reform but their main focus is stone throwing. There is a big difference between these two approaches.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

You sound more like a recruiter every time you open your mouth.

 

[chopper]

The point is that these guys believed in non-aggression. The critics here claim they believe in reform but their main focus is stone throwing. There is a big difference between these two approaches.

<sneaks out of corner>

I thought it was non violence myself. I would say that both were very aggressive in what they did, albeit in a non-violent sort of way. And I haven't heard anyone here talk about violent action to overturn the military medical system. Maybe you meant to say 'these guys sounded touchy-feely in their public discourse, so it makes me more warm inside'?

Ghandi: Don't buy the salt of the british, but make your own. If you do this, it may lead to the British Government leaving India.

MLK: Don't abide by the Jim Crow laws of the South. Go out on huge marches and eventually the U.S. will abolish its outdated laws and give civil rights to all.

MilMD: Don't join HPSP. It will cause a crisis that will force the military to really address the issues of a broken system.

Most of America to MLK when he started: Why are you bucking the system? You are only putting yourself in danger. We don't have a perfect system, but at least you are not slaves. Why don't you just tone down your rhetoric, and let things be.

IgD: Why are you bucking the system? You don't really care. Things are bad, but you can't change them. Trust in the beuracrats the got us in this problem in the first place, I'm sure we can trust them.

I think that everyone on this site wants to provide the best care possible to those in uniform, you included. I just have a problem that you can't get that others might want the same thing, but because they don't agree with your methods, they must just be bitter and hateful.




<sneaks back into corner>

 

[NavyFP]

Navyfp, earlier you mentioned that most of us who post our bad experiences think that any doc joining the military is either incompetent or a *****. I do not think that is the case. Certainly you have people like idg and hajun that exude that attitude right from the start. However, I believe the vast majority of people joining, are good to great to begin with, are 100% deluded, lied to, tricked, bamboozled, etc etc, into expecting something that is far inferior to what they get. During the enslavement, most will become less able to practice medicine well, but most will get out in time before permanent damage is done. Again, there are a few, who like moth to a flame will enjoy the power that rank gives them, and have medicine as a far second calling to officership, mostly because plain and simple they are poor physicians and they know it. Then, probably the vast minority, are those who are acutually good physicians, and also good leaders, and bang their head against the wall for over 20 years. Just wanted to clarify that.

And if I need to restate my motivation for posting, its much like mildm. I want there to be so few people joining, that they are FORCED to change and improve the system. Right now, the american soldier and their dependents are getting one of the worst medical care systems in the world, (yes hajun, I'm sure there are worse), and they are the people who deserve the very best. I believe in their sacrifice for our nation, and think its deplorable the way they are medically treated. But what is worse, is people within the system that believe everything is fine, and nothing needs to change. I believe these are traitors, and in a time of war, they should be HANGED!![/QUOTE]

Point taken and not without validity. Most of us will agree that there are issues in military medicine that need to be addressed. How we approach the problem may be different, but there is no doubt that it is driven by a passion to fix the system. And yes, sometimes knocking down the building and starting over is a way to fix the system. Just not my approach.

As far as the lack of appropriate disclosure in the recruitment process, that is something that can and should be fixed. I am a firm believer that people should understand what they are signing on to prior to signing. Would that keep some from coming into the service? Yes, but it would mean the people who are in the system truly want to be there. In the Navy, at least, there are a number of proposals on the table to change the way we recruit to the HPSP program. Many of these can improve the, shall we say, less than full disclosure. The problem with recruiting as a whole is that there are goals given to the recruiters. If they meet their goals they are rewarded, if not..... so there is negative pressure to be open and honest.

Physicians in the military have love both medicine and the military. You have to love medicine to keep current and treat patients despite the administrative pressures, and you have to love the military to put up with the seemingly insurmountable hurdles to affect change. Tough combination to fill.

I respect the fact that the negative posters on this site spend an awful lot of time and energy to make their case. They don't have to do it, and I don't believe most are purely malignant. I do believe there needs to be a balance, but let us not question motives, that is for the readers to do for themselves. If someone is considering the military they should ask a lot of questions. Unless you have actually been in the military, you don't truly get the military. It is different on the inside.

We will all continue to fight the fight. If, in the end, we have a better military medical system, it has been worth it.

 

[Pemberley]

I am however a subscriber to the principal that there is no personal problem that cannot be resolved with the proper application of high explosives. I just don't happen to have any of those.

They would come in handy sometimes, wouldn't they? But you're right, if a screwdriver is what you have, you use it.

 

[Croooz]

They would come in handy sometimes, wouldn't they? But you're right, if a screwdriver is what you have, you use it.

Screwdriver? Hammer! Always have a hammer! A hammer works for everything. That and duct tape.

 

[alpha62]

Screwdriver? Hammer! Always have a hammer! A hammer works for everything. That and duct tape.

In my shop, we refer to a hammer as " The universal adapter device "

 

[militarymd]

Pay me adequately....meaning same as what I get paid right now, and I'll gladly take the contract and go to Iraq....it's not like I haven't been there before.

 

[former military]

I had to bite on the commander's coin reference. To get a commander's coin at my hospital required that you were either a secretary, 60 year old cvilian, or a Col retiring or leaving for another base. Alternatively, you could be a pep squad person who hassles people to give to the combined federal campaign or the airman's fund. You certainly could not be recognized for seeing tons of patients, performing lots of procedures, and operations.

I resorted to handing out the doctor's coin- the NH state quarter... the mock sarcasm was lost on our physical therapist commander and his deputy, the post menopausal nurse

 

[militarymd]

The point is that these guys believed in non-aggression. The critics here claim they believe in reform but their main focus is stone throwing. There is a big difference between these two approaches.

I thought it was non violence myself. I would say that both were very aggressive in what they did, albeit in a non-violent sort of way. And I haven't heard anyone here talk about violent action to overturn the military medical system. Maybe you meant to say 'these guys sounded touchy-feely in their public discourse, so it makes me more warm inside'?

Ghandi: Don't buy the salt of the british, but make your own. If you do this, it may lead to the British Government leaving India.

MLK: Don't abide by the Jim Crow laws of the South. Go out on huge marches and eventually the U.S. will abolish its outdated laws and give civil rights to all.

MilMD: Don't join HPSP. It will cause a crisis that will force the military to really address the issues of a broken system.

Most of America to MLK when he started: Why are you bucking the system? You are only putting yourself in danger. We don't have a perfect system, but at least you are not slaves. Why don't you just tone down your rhetoric, and let things be.

IgD: Why are you bucking the system? You don't really care. Things are bad, but you can't change them. Trust in the beuracrats the got us in this problem in the first place, I'm sure we can trust them.

I think that everyone on this site wants to provide the best care possible to those in uniform, you included. I just have a problem that you can't get that others might want the same thing, but because they don't agree with your methods, they must just be bitter and hateful.

I was going to respond, but someone else responded for me.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

The only reason I got a CSAF coin was because when I introducted to him (by his daughter served with our unit) as the only airman who had his own coin. He chuckled and said that if I would give him one of my coins, I could have one of his. I excused myself, went to my locker, retrieved one and gave it to him. He started laughing when he read the inscription (which was a mockery of the Air Force core values) and handed me one of his coins.

the mock sarcasm was lost on our physical therapist commander and his deputy, the post menopausal nurse

The sarcasm of my coins was not lost on my squadron commander. I was LOR'ed for handing them out to people who had done something I thought was worthy of praise.

 

[alpha62]

The Chaplain in my unit was LORed for buying off the shelf equipment for the men in the unit.

He told me, that you aren't really an officer until you get at least one LOR.

The only reason I got a CSAF coin was because when I introducted to him (by his daughter served with our unit) as the only airman who had his own coin. He chuckled and said that if I would give him one of my coins, I could have one of his. I excused myself, went to my locker, retrieved one and gave it to him. He started laughing when he read the inscription (which was a mockery of the Air Force core values) and handed me one of his coins.



The sarcasm of my coins was not lost on my squadron commander. I was LOR'ed for handing them out to people who had done something I thought was worthy of praise.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

My stack of LOA's, LOR's and LOC's was sufficient that I put them up like a wallpaper border in my dorm room. My first sergeant totally missed the humor on that one. He really wasn't happy when he realized I had framed my Article 15 for display.

 

[alpha62]

I'll have to admit, when a monkey shine is typed on paper in narrative form, it is damned painfull to look at sometimes

They just don't have a box on those things for "you had to be there"

My stack of LOA's, LOR's and LOC's was sufficient that I put them up like a wallpaper border in my dorm room. My first sergeant totally missed the humor on that one. He really wasn't happy when he realized I had framed my Article 15 for display.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

My personal favorite was the one discussing placing a goat in our first sergeants office. He came in that morning to find it standing on his desk.

 

[Galo]

The Chaplain in my unit was LORed for buying off the shelf equipment for the men in the unit.

He told me, that you aren't really an officer until you get at least one LOR.

Damn!! I never heard of this. Here I am thinking I was a bad officer, when if fact by LOR's, including my blessing in disguise for "crossing the street", made me a true officer!! Yipee!!

 

[alpha62]

I was training up with a certain division at NTC headed for Iraq. I found another Chaplain literally sobbing behind a truck.

The commander made it a daily ritual to verbally assault and humiliate him and some of the other officers wouldn't even give him a vehicle to hump his gear to the FOB.

There is special place in hell under Hitler's toilet for people that do that to a Chaplain, especially during time of war.

I don't feel the need to stick my neck out for a crew that does businessin that manner and over the past few decades, that was business as usual.

Damn!! I never heard of this. Here I am thinking I was a bad officer, when if fact by LOR's, including my blessing in disguise for "crossing the street", made me a true officer!! Yipee!!

 

[Homunculus]

I had to bite on the commander's coin reference. To get a commander's coin at my hospital required that you were either a secretary, 60 year old cvilian, or a Col retiring or leaving for another base. Alternatively, you could be a pep squad person who hassles people to give to the combined federal campaign or the airman's fund. You certainly could not be recognized for seeing tons of patients, performing lots of procedures, and operations.

I resorted to handing out the doctor's coin- the NH state quarter... the mock sarcasm was lost on our physical therapist commander and his deputy, the post menopausal nurse

i *still* don;t understand the whole "coin" thing. seriously, what the hell do you do with them? i'd rather have a nice gift card for best buy or dunkin donuts or something. at least i can use it.

--your friendly neighborhood coffee addict caveman

 

[MeBen]

Some of the physician posters on this thread have a big chip on their shoulder. I would imagine that many of them had bad experiences with the military. Many doctors get the GOD complex. When they have to answer to a nurse of a higher rank I think most of them resent that. So they go back to the real world where they can belittle staff and patients.

For all you physicians in here with all the free time to make multiple posts a day and thinking you know everything, here is a quote. It is from Dr. Sir William Osler. For you doctors out there who don't know he is considered the father of modern medicine. The type of physician most doctors should aspire to. He was not a give a pill or cut physician.

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." -
-- Sir William Osler

Look up dogmatism yourself.

 

[militarymd]

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." -
-- Sir William Osler

Look up dogmatism yourself.

This is VERY ironic coming from a wealthy shoe salesman who can't get into medical school and who pays $400 a pop to see a charlatan who won't accept insurance patients....a charlatan who is above practicing medicine according to published guidelines from nationally recognized medical societies.

 

[MeBen]

This is VERY ironic coming from a wealthy shoe salesman who can't get into medical school and who pays $400 a pop to see a charlatan who won't accept insurance patients....a charlatan who is above practicing medicine according to published guidelines from nationally recognized medical societies.

MilitaryMD, the exact washed up doctor I was talking about. Let me correct you on a few things.

First I OWN a company that sells medical equipment.

Second, I don’t pay $400 to see my doctor; I pay $20,000/year.

Third, I have not yet applied to medical school

Fourth, me doctor is not a charlatan. He has an MD & a PhD from Harvard. The others doctors in the practice went to Harvard, Yale, & Oxford. I am not an expert like you but I have heard they are good schools. All the doctors are board certified in multiple fields and have NEVER had any complaints filed.

Fifth, what guidelines from nationally medical societies are you talking about?


Were you really a military doctor? The only experience I think you have had with the military is when they rescued you from your medical school in Grenada.

Go back to your 2.54 posts a day. You must really be a busy doctor.

 

[MeBen]

MilitaryMD,

A qoute that fits you,

I have endeavored to show that there is no real
service of humanity in the profession of
medicine and that it is injurious to mankind.
- Mahatma Gandhi

Do you have this tacked up in your office?

 

[militarymd]

........

Fourth, me doctor is not a charlatan. He has an MD & a PhD from Harvard. The others doctors in the practice went to Harvard, Yale, & Oxford.

I would take patients who pay upfront full price, like my D.O. does. Of course I see him for an hour when I go and he also uses supplement, using Pharm drugs when absolutely necessary.

Now the reason for me telling you my life story is this. I want to be and Osteopath, not just a doctor. I want to practice OMT and the like.

from 04-25-2006, 03:45 PM

I didn't know Harvard, Yale, or Oxford conferred D.O. degrees......or taught OMT

 

[MeBen]

That physician was killed in an auto accident over Memorial Day weekend. He went to PCOM. He was a doctor at Florida Hospital for many years.

The clinic is in the process of adding a D.O.

Ready for your .54 post.

 

[militarymd]

That physician was killed in an auto accident over Memorial Day weekend. He went to PCOM. He was a doctor at Florida Hospital for many years.

The clinic is in the process of adding a D.O.

Ready for your .54 post.

Here's my 2 cents.

This is the internet. You can say anything you want. I can say anything I want.

I just want it clear to everyone where each of us are coming from.

You......rich shoes salesman who can't/hasn't (whatever you say) get into medical school with ZERO knowledge about medicine except what your D.O. from Oxford is telling you.

Me.....Double Board Certified physician with 13 years of practice experience (11 in the Navy).

I'll leave it at that....the readers can make up their own mind.

 

[militarymd]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I don't know everything...I learn everyday....that's why it is called the "practice" of medicine....

But I know this for a fact.....I KNOW MORE THAN YOU, MEBEN.

 

[MeBen]

 

[MeBen]

Here's my 2 cents.

This is the internet. You can say anything you want. I can say anything I want.

I just want it clear to everyone where each of us are coming from.

You......rich shoes salesman who can't/hasn't (whatever you say) get into medical school with ZERO knowledge about medicine except what your D.O. from Oxford is telling you.

Me.....Double Board Certified physician with 13 years of practice experience (11 in the Navy).

I'll leave it at that....the readers can make up their own mind.

I am wealthy, not rich. Rich is somebody who wins the lotto or inherits money. Wealthy is someone who could lose all their money and make it back again.

I have never sold shoes.

I do have a MS in Nutrition. I do know a little something about your basic biology & the interactions that occur in the human body.

My former DO went to PCOM; my current MD went to Harvard. Some of the other doctors in the clinic went to Oxford.

Going to medical school is not the only way to learn about medicine. Just ask all the RNs taking over many physician roles.

Military medicine is just like civilian medicine. You have good and bad doctors. The physicians that treated me were a combination of new doctors, doctors in the Reserves that had been civilian doctors for many years, or doctors at 50 wanted to serve and became military doctors.

I have not yet applied to osteopathic school. That would give me a pretty good excuse for not being accepted.

You say that military medicine is horrible. That the doctors are incompetent. That their skills are degrading from lack of use. Here is your quote,

"Me.....Double Board Certified physician with 13 years of practice experience (11 in the Navy)."

11 years in the Navy. Are you one of the incompetent, unskilled military doctors? Or in the past 2 years have your really improved?

Your at three posts already. Are you ready to break your average even further?

 

[MeBen]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I don't know everything...I learn everyday....that's why it is called the "practice" of medicine....

But I know this for a fact.....I KNOW MORE THAN YOU, MEBEN.

That’s true, you don't know everything. And yes you do know more about medicine at this time than I do. I would imagine a physician knew more about medicine than Dr. Osler did before he went to medical school.

You are practicing medicine. Just like the Philadelphia Eagles practice football. Practice does not always make perfect.

 

[Galo]

I am wealthy, not rich. Rich is somebody who wins the lotto or inherits money. Wealthy is someone who could lose all their money and make it back again.

I have never sold shoes.

I do have a MS in Nutrition. I do know a little something about your basic biology & the interactions that occur in the human body.

My former DO went to PCOM; my current MD went to Harvard. Some of the other doctors in the clinic went to Oxford.

Going to medical school is not the only way to learn about medicine. Just ask all the RNs taking over many physician roles.

Military medicine is just like civilian medicine. You have good and bad doctors. The physicians that treated me were a combination of new doctors, doctors in the Reserves that had been civilian doctors for many years, or doctors at 50 wanted to serve and became military doctors.

I have not yet applied to osteopathic school. That would give me a pretty good excuse for not being accepted.

You say that military medicine is horrible. That the doctors are incompetent. That their skills are degrading from lack of use. Here is your quote,

"Me.....Double Board Certified physician with 13 years of practice experience (11 in the Navy)."

11 years in the Navy. Are you one of the incompetent, unskilled military doctors? Or in the past 2 years have your really improved?

Your at three posts already. Are you ready to break your average even further?

meben, I don't know what your gripe is with ex milmed, but you seem to be making a scandal of yourself posting on a PRO military thread.

You also do not seem to think that there is a great problem with the way military medicine is being run, and with the care that our soldiers are getting.

There are plenty of enthusiastic competent dedicated military physicians. The vast majority of them get extremely frustrated, dissapointed, angry, etc, at a system that could equate to third world standards is some aspects, and most of them leave the military the first chance they get. There are few that are competent and somehow think they can change the system, only to find themselves less and less able to be doctors, and more and more, administrators with only power to slightly influence the people just under them. But the real tragedy is you have also a number of complete and utter imbecils who are horrible doctors, horrible leaders, and out of attrition they stay in a system that rewards mediocracy, and thus become the leaders of that system.

What is your vast experience with medicine anyways. It seems you sell some type of medical equipment, but I hardly see how that puts you in the trenches we have been in and experience what we have when patients lives and well being is in our hands.

Your continual personal attacks are making you sound like an idg clone, and I'm sure you do not want to be lumped with that level of ignorance and stupidity.

If and when you go to med school, and then serve in an operational military situation as a physician, you really cant understand what we've been through, and should really just hear our opinions as warnings to those that were as gullible as we were, and allow us not to let them be misled as we were. You really need to walk in someones shoes before you can criticize them like you are doing us.

Enjoy the freedom that soldiers die for, when some of them could have lived if they had better care.

 

[MeBen]

meben, I don't know what your gripe is with ex milmed, but you seem to be making a scandal of yourself posting on a PRO military thread.

You also do not seem to think that there is a great problem with the way military medicine is being run, and with the care that our soldiers are getting.

There are plenty of enthusiastic competent dedicated military physicians. The vast majority of them get extremely frustrated, dissapointed, angry, etc, at a system that could equate to third world standards is some aspects, and most of them leave the military the first chance they get. There are few that are competent and somehow think they can change the system, only to find themselves less and less able to be doctors, and more and more, administrators with only power to slightly influence the people just under them. But the real tragedy is you have also a number of complete and utter imbecils who are horrible doctors, horrible leaders, and out of attrition they stay in a system that rewards mediocracy, and thus become the leaders of that system.

What is your vast experience with medicine anyways. It seems you sell some type of medical equipment, but I hardly see how that puts you in the trenches we have been in and experience what we have when patients lives and well being is in our hands.

Your continual personal attacks are making you sound like an idg clone, and I'm sure you do not want to be lumped with that level of ignorance and stupidity.

If and when you go to med school, and then serve in an operational military situation as a physician, you really cant understand what we've been through, and should really just hear our opinions as warnings to those that were as gullible as we were, and allow us not to let them be misled as we were.

I have never said all military doctors are great. I was only relating to my experiences. I was wounded in Iraq. My life was saved by military doctors. Could civilian doctors have saved my life? Yes.

All I hear on this PRO thread is how horrible military doctors and the system are. I know the military system can suck. I am an Officer in the National Guard and have been in the Guard since I was 17 (14 years). I have spent my fair share of time in the past few years (Iraq, Homeland Security Missions) on active duty. I know the ARMY CAN SUCK. I know people get promoted who should not. I have also heard people who were not good officers insult the system when THEY were the problem.

The only problem I have a problem is when people say, I AM A DOCTOR, I KNOW EVERYTHING, AND YOU KNOW NOTHING! That seems to be the attitude of some doctors today. I respect the opinions of doctors. Some of these opinions though are more tirades than criticisms. I am not the only one on this thread to state that either.

I know what is like to have people’s lives in your hands. I have written plenty of letters home. Most of my experience with military doctors has been them telling me, “Sorry, there was nothing we could do.” about members of my platoon. I have also seen them save plenty of lives. I have walked in the shoes of someone whose actions has caused someone’s death. I have had many peoples lives in my hands.

Galo, the way you have replied is how I wish others would reply.

 

[militarymd]

meben, I don't know what your gripe is with ex milmed, but you seem to be making a scandal of yourself posting on a PRO military thread.

I've said this before, and I will say it again....unless you are a physician, how would you know what is good medical care, and what isn't.

It has been demonstrated again and again, that consumers of healthcare are notoriously poor judges of quality.

You got bamboozled by a bunch of people with a bunch of equipment.....that DOES NOT mean it is good healthcare....all it means is that an uneducated soldier saw a bunch of equipment he is not familiar with...being worked on by a bunch of enthusiast personnel......is that quality???? I can't say, I wasn't there to evaluate it....

However, having been involved with military medicine for 11 years , and seeing it in action many times over....I can say....I doubt it

I do not have to be a physician to realize I had good medical care, I am alive.

You do not need to be a ‘brain surgeon’ to realize I got great care. I was not looking at all these wonderful toys saying “wow!” I am an owner of a company that brokers equipment sales to ERs. I know the difference between a monophasic defibrillator and a Holter monitor.

This is his gripe. I told him that he does not have the necessary knowledge or experience to evaluate the quality of medical care.

Quality of care is something that experienced physicians are struggling to evaluate everrday.... and even more so now with the explosion of actual evidence based studies that is being published in the last 5 to 7 years.

Meben thinks that selling medical equipment, reading a few nutritional magazines, and making a bunch of money, gives him abilities to evaluate medical care that the rest of us have to go to medical school, train in residencies, and practice medicine to gain.

He doesn't like the truth that I'm telling him.....that's his gripe.

 

[MeBen]

This is his gripe. I told him that he does not have the necessary knowledge or experience to evaluate the quality of medical care.

Quality of care is something that experienced physicians are struggling to evaluate everrday.... and even more so now with the explosion of actual evidence based studies that is being published in the last 5 to 7 years.

Meben thinks that selling medical equipment, reading a few nutritional magazines, and making a bunch of money, gives him abilities to evaluate medical care that the rest of us have to go to medical school, train in residencies, and practice medicine to gain.

He doesn't like the truth that I'm telling him.....that's his gripe.

I only brought up that I sold medical equipment because you said I were ‘Wooed” by all the medical equipment.

I have a MS in Nutrition. That is a little more information than your average nutrition magazine has.

Doctors are not the only people who have a prescriptive on medical care. That is the problem with most physicians. If physicians feel strongly about changing the medical system, there are plenty of non-physicians that would be willing to help. The problem is that many doctors have some sort of arrogance when it comes to dealing with non-physician about medical issues. I do not belittle doctors because I know more about nutrition than them. I do not get upset that many cause of disease can be traced to nutrition and doctors do not use nutritional information that is readily at hand. Have you dealt with any patients with depressions? Have you checked the B12 levels? Have you checked their magnesium? I am not talking about just running a CBC, but more precise accurate tests. Or do you just give them Xanax and say have a nice life?

I agree with you about many of your concerns. I think the health care system in itself has turned doctors into people who just cut and give drugs. Treat the patient and not only has the disease seemed to be gone these days. I have seen doctors talk into a tape recorder while they were examining a patient and not even look the patients face, let alone say hi or bye. That is a disgrace.

We do agree about many of these things. Let’s call a truce and at least come to the understanding that we both think the health care system in general needs a lot of reform, both military and civilian.

 

[alpha62]

Meben is working under the same QA model the army OTSG works from.

You give some shammer 3 days quarters, help him pimp up his disablity claim for chronic low back pain. OTSG then sends the guy a questionare and you are now the next Walter Reed and all is well.

This is his gripe. I told him that he does not have the necessary knowledge or experience to evaluate the quality of medical care.

Quality of care is something that experienced physicians are struggling to evaluate everrday.... and even more so now with the explosion of actual evidence based studies that is being published in the last 5 to 7 years.

Meben thinks that selling medical equipment, reading a few nutritional magazines, and making a bunch of money, gives him abilities to evaluate medical care that the rest of us have to go to medical school, train in residencies, and practice medicine to gain.

He doesn't like the truth that I'm telling him.....that's his gripe.

 

[USAFdoc]

We do agree about many of these things. Let’s call a truce and at least come to the understanding that we both think the health care system in general needs a lot of reform, both military and civilian.

yes, they both need reform. But in my experience, research, first hand accounts and discussions with many, many other military docs and nurses, MILITARY medicine is EXPONENTIALLY worse off in terms of patient care and care of staff. WHY has it become worse? Basically the military joined the civilian world in making decisions based on "$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (only)"
In the civilian world CEOs still have to listen to the docs and staff or else they will lose the staff. In the military world, the CEO (surgeon General) could care less about docs.....that is as long as he continues to have the endless HPSP pipeline.

 

[colbgw02]

If physicians feel strongly about changing the medical system, there are plenty of non-physicians that would be willing to help. The problem is that many doctors have some sort of arrogance when it comes to dealing with non-physician about medical issues.

I know that I need to be careful here, because there are certainly many other folks who have more experience than I do. Still, I know a little about healthcare reform due to my involvement in organized medicine, which has included dealing with my state's legislature.

I can say with very little equivocation that a tremendous number of the problems in our system are due to non-physicians - whether it's attorneys, politicians, bureaucrats, judges, insurance companies, and even laboratory companies - trying to tell physicians how to do their jobs.

I understand what you mean about physician arrogance, and certainly some of that arrogance is based in snooty attitudes and personality disorders. But I think a lot of the perceived pretention comes from physicians who are tired of the near-constant bombardment of people telling them what to do, how to do it, and how often they can do it

Obviously, we can't let physicians have unabated control, because - in trying to do the best for our patients - we would inevitably bankrupt the system. However, I do think we'd be a lot better off letting the folks in the trenches, to use a cliche, have more control over policy.

I guess my point is that I'm not really sure where all these non-physicians willing to reform the system are. To me, non-physicians are the ones largely responsible for inhibiting reform, and that's true of both the military and civilian systems.

 

[IgD]

MeBen, welcome to the X-military medicine anonymous forums. This is a safe warm environment for us victims to come and complain. You are violating the rules by posting anything pro-military. Would you ever go to an AA meeting and talk about the healthy use of alcohol? Please try to stay on topic.

 

[alpha62]

While you are promoting the benefits of a toxic substance, I suggest you also vist www.cheechandchong.com next.

MeBen, welcome to the X-military medicine anonymous forums. This is a safe warm environment for us victims to come and complain. You are violating the rules by posting anything pro-military. Would you ever go to an AA meeting and talk about the healthy use of alcohol? Please try to stay on topic.

 

[mellowmarshall]

Cleanup on aisle 6!

I was hoping to read some pros in here but it seems that the thread has digressed. If anyone has personal, POSITIVE views about military medicine, could you please PM me or email me loganbrett27 @ yahoo.com. I am in the Army and considering this move, I have read the cons thread, and I would like to hear some positive reports as well.

 

[alpha62]

Here's the good news... they're serving Chili Mac again at the DFAC tonight.

Better news.... It's all you can eat

Cleanup on aisle 6!

I was hoping to read some pros in here but it seems that the thread has digressed. If anyone has personal, POSITIVE views about military medicine, could you please PM me or email me loganbrett27 @ yahoo.com. I am in the Army and considering this move, I have read the cons thread, and I would like to hear some positive reports as well.

 

[IgD]

Cleanup on aisle 6!

I was hoping to read some pros in here but it seems that the thread has digressed. If anyone has personal, POSITIVE views about military medicine, could you please PM me or email me loganbrett27 @ yahoo.com. I am in the Army and considering this move, I have read the cons thread, and I would like to hear some positive reports as well.

Think of this site as the trash can and toxic waste dump for all of military medicine. It serves a great purpose but be careful what you touch in here.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Think of this site as the trash can and toxic waste dump for all of military medicine. It serves a great purpose but be careful what you touch in here.

This is a public forum, not a waste dump. (Although IgD hanging around sometimes makes it seem like a dump.)

If you are in the service already, you know things aren't like recruiter posters make them look. Why would military medicine be any different?

 

[RichL025]

Cleanup on aisle 6!

I was hoping to read some pros in here but it seems that the thread has digressed. If anyone has personal, POSITIVE views about military medicine, could you please PM me or email me loganbrett27 @ yahoo.com. I am in the Army and considering this move, I have read the cons thread, and I would like to hear some positive reports as well.

Read the first page or two of this thread and forget the rest - the "usual characters" turned it into a dumping / prosyletizing ground.

 

[DiveMD]

Going back to the main topic of this thread:

CHICKS DIG THE NAVY WHITES!!! AND NAVY DIVERS!!!!