Quitting residency for better opportunity?

[Maskchamp]

Hello,

So I am only 6 months in my residency, and things are decent, although I don't think anyone really likes residency.

I have been offered a position in another country which not only significantly more income, but better conditions. I did an internship there a couple of years ago so I know the doctors, the facility, the town etc, very familiar territory. Felt very well there.

The only catch is that I will need to take at least 6 months off to up the language skills and so leave my current residency. However, I will seriously feel like a quitter, which is not something I have an easy time accepting. Will kind of feel like I would be that doctor that "couldn't take it".

Makes me a quitter? Accept offer and take half a year off or keep going where I am? Both are 5 years. In my 30s.

Merci

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[Dr. Rude]

Do you think it likely that you will permanently relocate to this country?

 

[Maskchamp]

Do you think it likely that you will permanently relocate to this country?

100%

 

[IMGASMD]

I’d finish training where I end up practicing.

 

[gtb]

Consider waiting to leave residency until after you complete USMLE Step 3, and obtain a full physician license where you reside. Then, if your intent is to live and work within that location, and you never plan to work as a physician in the United States, why not? But leaving before you obtain a full physician license is a mistake I think.

 

[Maskchamp]

Steps are done, but I don't practice in the US, and don't intend to. I'm doing residency in Europe and studied here too. Just thinking of switching countries.

 

[deleted1156848]

Better conditions. More money. 6 month vacation. Still finishing a residency…
Hmmm.. hard to figure this one out.

 

[pgg]

Have you talked to your program director yet?

Do what's right for you and your career goals, but be mindful that medicine is a small world, burnt bridges are hard to unburn, and quitting any job without the usual amount of notice can turn friends & advocates into enemies & sabateurs.

If you leave your current program, do so gracefully and on good terms. That might mean finishing the year, or it might not. Most program directors want to see their residents succeed, even if it means losing a resident partway through. Most program directors would be pissed if a resident just abruptly quit and left a resident-sized hole in the OR and call schedule.

 

[nopain1234]

Hello,

So I am only 6 months in my residency, and things are decent, although I don't think anyone really likes residency.

I have been offered a position in another country which not only significantly more income, but better conditions. I did an internship there a couple of years ago so I know the doctors, the facility, the town etc, very familiar territory. Felt very well there.

The only catch is that I will need to take at least 6 months off to up the language skills and so leave my current residency. However, I will seriously feel like a quitter, which is not something I have an easy time accepting. Will kind of feel like I would be that doctor that "couldn't take it".

Makes me a quitter? Accept offer and take half a year off or keep going where I am? Both are 5 years. In my 30s.

Merci

Very rarely do people leave the USA to practice in another country. Typically people come from other countries to practice here. We pay WAY more than other countries more times than not.

Are you from this country originally? If it were me I’d finish what I started it’s gonna be impossible to get back in a US residency again.

 

[IMGASMD]

Op lives in Europe.

 

[neutro]

Am I the only one not understanding the context here?

 

[Maskchamp]

Very rarely do people leave the USA to practice in another country. Typically people come from other countries to practice here. We pay WAY more than other countries more times than not.

Are you from this country originally? If it were me I’d finish what I started it’s gonna be impossible to get back in a US residency again.

I do not live or practice in the US. No intention. Our degree is EU so it's valid in Europe everywhere, except for a language exam.

I trained and doing my resistance in Europe currently, but there a lot of countries, and some pay much better than others. That's why I am pondering this decision. But correct about leaving abruptly. Notice will be given for sure.

 

[Planktonmd]

Go where you are happier and plan to stay.
Moving to another country within Europe is not that different than moving to another state in the U.S. for those who don't know.
The only issue is that the OP apparently is not fluent in the language of that other country, but he was able to practice there before, so all he needs is to practice the language. I have practiced medicine and lived in 3 different countries that speak 3 entirely different languages and I loved it.

 

[Maskchamp]

Go where you are happier and plan to stay.
Moving to another country within Europe is not that different than moving to another state in the U.S. for those who don't know.
The only issue is that the OP apparently is not fluent in the language of that other country, but he was able to practice there before, so all he needs is to practice the language. I have practiced medicine and lived in 3 different countries that speak 3 entirely different languages and I loved it.

Yea, I think I will. I feel it's the right decision. Thanks guys

 

[Deanmonster]

Which countries in europe pay best? I looked at UK awhile ago and it pays quite poorly.

 

[Maskchamp]

Which countries in europe pay best? I looked at UK awhile ago and it pays quite poorly.

Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and the Scandinavian countries. France is better than most, but low.

UK is terrible, not to mention horrendous hours. I have a few practicing there and being what it is and with the NHS, they're miserable.

 

[Fpg1245]

Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and the Scandinavian countries. France is better than most, but low.

UK is terrible, not to mention horrendous hours. I have a few practicing there and being what it is and with the NHS, they're miserable.

What is the pay like for anesthesiologist in those countries anyway? What’s a yearly salary for someone out of training?

Do they have anything like mgma in Europe you can look up. I found some websites not sure how good their data is. Anesthesiologist making around €200K which by euro standards I’m assuming is respectable.

 

[Maskchamp]

No, not 200k. EU is 27 countries, so varies very much, but not 200k.

Germany has probably the best pay, but taxes are very high, around 40%, more or less depending on marital status. An Oberartz which means the chief of Anesthesiology or for any other department of that matter, won't make more than 150k, and that's pre-tax. Taxes in Scandinavian countries are even higher, up to 65%. Even if you are chief at a big University Hospital, you won't make more than 180k, and that's quite rare. Department chiefs in Italy for instance, after taxes, net about 50-60k, quite poor.

Anesthesiology and ICU is a double specialty in most countries, so you are very well formed, 5 years and it tends to be the most prestigious specialty in most of Europe and not competitive.

What is absolutely wonderful though for Anesthesiology in Europe since it's a very specific skill, I will say, is that if you are an EU citizen or have a EU work permit, and you speak a few languages, you can make an insane amount by EU standards.

I have friends that speak Italian, German, and French. They get called to Paris for a couple of weeks, make over 10k, then go back to where they live, then go to Germany for a couple of weeks, do it there, or Switzerland, etc. I know of an Anesthesiologist in Poland, she went to Norway for 3 months to work and paid off her mortgage in Poland as cost of living is low in Poland. But your language skills need to be very very good, at least a B2.

And as an Anesthesiologist, you can do freelance in the ERs, no need for an EM formation as Anesthesia includes ICU. EM wasn't even a specialty until very recently, so the tough stuff in the ER is done by intensivists, so you pretty much get 3 specialties.

But also keep in mind, this is pre-tax, and taxes are higher in Europe, still very good, but not the 500k you will make in the US. But also university doesn't cost 50k/year, it's free, and don't really have to deal with liability, getting sued, and all that BS. Pros and cons.

 

[teacher2md]

Interesting—What are the work hours like? How often do most anesthesiologists take overnight call? Is it common to be operating overnight or do most things wait until daytime?

 

[PpfSuxTube]

No, not 200k. EU is 27 countries, so varies very much, but not 200k.

Germany has probably the best pay, but taxes are very high, around 40%, more or less depending on marital status. An Oberartz which means the chief of Anesthesiology or for any other department of that matter, won't make more than 150k, and that's pre-tax. Taxes in Scandinavian countries are even higher, up to 65%. Even if you are chief at a big University Hospital, you won't make more than 180k, and that's quite rare. Department chiefs in Italy for instance, after taxes, net about 50-60k, quite poor.

Anesthesiology and ICU is a double specialty in most countries, so you are very well formed, 5 years and it tends to be the most prestigious specialty in most of Europe and not competitive.

What is absolutely wonderful though for Anesthesiology in Europe since it's a very specific skill, I will say, is that if you are an EU citizen or have a EU work permit, and you speak a few languages, you can make an insane amount by EU standards.

I have friends that speak Italian, German, and French. They get called to Paris for a couple of weeks, make over 10k, then go back to where they live, then go to Germany for a couple of weeks, do it there, or Switzerland, etc. I know of an Anesthesiologist in Poland, she went to Norway for 3 months to work and paid off her mortgage in Poland as cost of living is low in Poland. But your language skills need to be very very good, at least a B2.

And as an Anesthesiologist, you can do freelance in the ERs, no need for an EM formation as Anesthesia includes ICU. EM wasn't even a specialty until very recently, so the tough stuff in the ER is done by intensivists, so you pretty much get 3 specialties.

But also keep in mind, this is pre-tax, and taxes are higher in Europe, still very good, but not the 500k you will make in the US. But also university doesn't cost 50k/year, it's free, and don't really have to deal with liability, getting sued, and all that BS. Pros and cons.

You are very much mistaken my friend. Theres lots of good money being made in europe if you know where to look

 

[Maskchamp]

Interesting—What are the work hours like? How often do most anesthesiologists take overnight call? Is it common to be operating overnight or do most things wait until daytime?

Quite solid, 55 is pushing it, and that's on a very bad week. Never more than a 12 hour shift at a time.

Yes, the operations take place during the day, most often operations start at the latest around 2 and the block closes around 5. But if that surgery that started at 2 takes forever or complications, then you stay.

As for the overnight calls, some do, but I think once a month, as the big hospitals are well staffed, but that I can check. I know some who do quite a bit but that's for overtime and more cash.

 

[Maskchamp]

You are very much mistaken my friend. Theres lots of good money being made in europe if you know where to look

Not really, I've been living here over 6 years and practicing.

Read the second part of the post, that's where lots of the good money is, yes, but again, pre-tax and taxes are high.

 

[anbuitachi]

definitely leave. why would you stay in this country and practice medicine. the state of medicine here is terrible and only gets worse.

 

[lotsapain]

Am I the only one not understanding the context here?

Nope I don't get it either ..... if its a different European country go for it.. I don't understand what the question is here? You don't want to be a quitter don't quite.... but who is to say what that means? "I am being tortured daily even though the door is unlocked... let me see how long I can take it to not be a quitter" lol

 

[nimbus]

Hello,

So I am only 6 months in my residency, and things are decent, although I don't think anyone really likes residency.

I have been offered a position in another country which not only significantly more income, but better conditions. I did an internship there a couple of years ago so I know the doctors, the facility, the town etc, very familiar territory. Felt very well there.

The only catch is that I will need to take at least 6 months off to up the language skills and so leave my current residency. However, I will seriously feel like a quitter, which is not something I have an easy time accepting. Will kind of feel like I would be that doctor that "couldn't take it".

Makes me a quitter? Accept offer and take half a year off or keep going where I am? Both are 5 years. In my 30s.

Merci

Not really, I've been living here over 6 years and practicing.

Read the second part of the post, that's where lots of the good money is, yes, but again, pre-tax and taxes are high.

Not sure I understand your situation.

Did you practice one specialty for 6 years before starting residency in a new specialty 6 months ago? Is the new offer to practice your first specialty? If you quit your current residency, will you return to your previous specialty in a different country?

 

[epidural man]

Yea, I think I will. I feel it's the right decision. Thanks guys

If you can learn a whole new language and speak well within 6 months, I have to say … the world is your oyster. I’d leave medicine and go do something else with that brain.

 

[Fpg1245]

If you can learn a whole new language and speak well within 6 months, I have to say … the world is your oyster. I’d leave medicine and go do something else with that brain.

Yeah the more I read the initial post, the more weird the whole situation sounds

 

[Maskchamp]

Not sure I understand your situation.

Did you practice one specialty for 6 years before starting residency in a new specialty 6 months ago? Is the new offer to practice your first specialty? If you quit your current residency, will you return to your previous specialty in a different country?

Sorry if my post was vague, my fault.

I did med school, and now doing my residency, been living in this country for 7 years. I'm in my 6th month of residency here.

Yes, new offer is a continuation of my residency in another country (same specialty Anesthesia/ICU) which is much better with regards to being a physician. My 6 months will also be validated at the same time, since it's EU, so won't really lose time.

No, I will not return. I'll always have the option. Once you finish residency EU (whatever country that may be), you can practice anywhere in the EU. Example I finish Anesthesiology/ICU residency in Italy, I can work Anesthesiology/ICU in Norway. Which is kind of cool

 

[Maskchamp]

Nope I don't get it either ..... if its a different European country go for it.. I don't understand what the question is here? You don't want to be a quitter don't quite.... but who is to say what that means? "I am being tortured daily even though the door is unlocked... let me see how long I can take it to not be a quitter" lol

I just will feel that if I quit my residency here, I'll feel like I was that one intern who "couldn't take it".

But I like how you said 'who is to say what that means'. I think you're right.

 

[Maskchamp]

I meant it kind of like this.

Think of it as if you are doing residency in Kansas and you are 6 months in, but then they offer you a continuation of your residency at the hospital you want in Paris, France. Do you quit and go? And if you did, people might think you might be that intern who couldn't handle being a doctor.

Sorry again if my post was vague guys.

 

[nimbus]

Hello,

So I am only 6 months in my residency, and things are decent, although I don't think anyone really likes residency.

I have been offered a position in another country which not only significantly more income, but better conditions. I did an internship there a couple of years ago so I know the doctors, the facility, the town etc, very familiar territory. Felt very well there.

The only catch is that I will need to take at least 6 months off to up the language skills and so leave my current residency. However, I will seriously feel like a quitter, which is not something I have an easy time accepting. Will kind of feel like I would be that doctor that "couldn't take it".

Makes me a quitter?

If you have already done an internship at your desired hospital/location and “felt very well there”, why do you need 6 months off for language acquisition?

Unless I’m missing something, it seems like you are looking for an excuse to take 6 months off. If it is important to you not to look like a quitter, you should complete your current internship. If it is not important, then take 6 months off.

 

[PpfSuxTube]

Not really, I've been living here over 6 years and practicing.

Read the second part of the post, that's where lots of the good money is, yes, but again, pre-tax and taxes are high.

Ok, as you wish.
If you think emerg is where the money, well good for you then... it isn't

And no you cannot work anywhere in the EU. You may be entitled to apply for a job but the edaic is basically not worth anything compared for frca

 

[Maskchamp]

If you have already done an internship at your desired hospital/location and “felt very well there”, why do you need 6 months off for language acquisition?

Unless I’m missing something, it seems like you are looking for an excuse to take 6 months off. If it is important to you not to look like a quitter, you should complete your current internship. If it is not important, then take 6 months off.

They took me with very little language skills, but it was an unpaid internship and just for a month. As it wasn't paid and a full time position, I could do it without a B2 level, but now for a license, I need to get the language skills to a B2 in order to be employed as a physician in that country.

 

[Maskchamp]

Ok, as you wish.
If you think emerg is where the money, well good for you then... it isn't

And no you cannot work anywhere in the EU. You may be entitled to apply for a job but the edaic is basically not worth anything compared for frca

I'm not going to get into a debate, that wasn't the post anyway.

But ER is definitely not where the money is. And as for working anywhere in the EU, I have not only heard of people doing it, but also seen it myself. I'm not BSing, been living here for a long time and fully aware of the rules/regulations. Not to mention if I'm switching countries and have a job offer to work in another EU country, that's enough proof anyway.

 

[nimbus]

They took me with very little language skills, but it was an unpaid internship and just for a month. As it wasn't paid and a full time position, I could do it without a B2 level, but now for a license, I need to get the language skills to a B2 in order to be employed as a physician in Germany.

I see. If it is necessary, then it is not really a choice. Do what you need to do.

 

[norski]

As I'm in a similar situation where my wife and I want to take the kids to France from Norway for a year, why not? I need b2 french to get IADE( french nurse anesthetist state cert), she's already at c2, and as a doctor, can get work anywhere she pleases(not anesthesiology).

My hospital trust employs Hungarians, poles, lithuanians,serbs, estonians, swedes, armenians, croats, finns and danes with the only real requirement, other than having a real anesthesiologist specialty, B2 Norwegian.

A full time, salaried position anesthesiologist will make between 130-150k euros a year in Norway. Some north of 200k, depending on workload. A locums tenens anesthesiologist will make around 7-9000 euros a week, though their workloads are typically pretty intense.

Like someone said, the world of anesthesia is pretty small, but at least in Norway, it's very uncontroversial to take a position elsewhere, as a medical doctor is in no way shape or form bound to a residency match or their choices at 27 y.o. specialty training for doctors here is regulated through jobs and what you might gain of experience through those jobs. As someone on the sideline of it all, I'm glad some people in surg or IM training can switch to another job (specialty) without losing real face.

Maskchamp, I wish you the best of luck. If six months of language finesse is what you need to gain a training spot at a place you know and love, do it. It's not a bad thing to catch yourself a break after so and so many years of med school and internships.