Salary Differential

[nonvideas]

How do your parents determine what fees to charge their clients, and what do they do when a horse needs care that the owners can't afford?

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[Perfbird]

We're real physicians offering a valuable service to needy patients and we're being compensated to our education and professional level. So are vets, but for the wrong reasons.

Please back this up. Please provide one shred of information that proves this, because so far all I have seen from you is a stinking pile of crap. I'm beginning to see that you're just bitter because you couldn't make it as a vet. Don't embarrass yourself by trying to tell us how awful we are, it only makes you the bigger fool. You are one dumb pot calling the kettle black, with nothing to substantiate your claims. Grow up and get over yourself.

 

[cowgirla]

The profession is not good right now, which is why I got out

Also known as, you weren't smart enough to cut it, and vet schools wouldn't let you in. That explains where the bitterness comes from.

 

[Brodiatrist]

Next time I find myself in the hospital with a foot problem, I will think of you, and request a real doctor instead.

That's the beauty of human medicine, you can choose, the animal can't and ultimately looses at your benefit.

 

[twelvetigers]

...what?

I just read that three times, and at least 90% of it contradicts with something you said above, and then you make a general stab about vets being compensated for "the wrong reasons." That doesn't even make SENSE. Seriously.

You are misinformed, bored (clearly), fairly rude, and completely unwelcome here. Go pester the psych boards or something.

ETA: The board moved while I was posting... referring to post #43.

 

[nonvideas]

No, not at all. Usually we CAN'T choose who our doctors are, it's determined by insurance and HMOs and hospital policies. Owners can always take their animals elsewhere, for second or third opinions or anything else they need.

And it's "lose," with one "o." Loose has a completely different meaning. No pre-reqs for podiatry school?

OK, I take back what I said earlier...this guy definitely falls into the Don't Feed The Troll category.

 

[Brodiatrist]

How do your parents determine what fees to charge their clients, and what do they do when a horse needs care that the owners can't afford?

We have the flexibility to offer extended re-payment plans, and with two large farms if the owner cannot pay and the animal is able to be saved, we keep it.

 

[cowgirla]

We have the flexibility to offer extended re-payment plans, and with two large farms if the owner cannot pay and the animal is able to be saved, we keep it.

Funny, most vets offer payment plans.
Even funnier, if a client can't afford the treatment for their animal, they have the option of "surrendering" the animal to us...Guess what happens then? My vet does all the work (often thousand dollar surgeries) for FREE. And you can say that she doesn't care about the animals and only sees dollar signs??

 

[Brodiatrist]

No, not at all. Usually we CAN'T choose who our doctors are, it's determined by insurance and HMOs and hospital policies..

You were talking about seeing a podiatrist vs an orthopod. You have the choice.

 

[nonvideas]

We have the flexibility to offer extended re-payment plans, and with two large farms if the owner cannot pay and the animal is able to be saved, we keep it.

...

Seriously?

This is EXACTLY how every small animal clinic I've ever worked in has functioned. They work out payment options for those who need it, and when people really can't pay and the animal is saved, a home is found for it. If the animal can't be saved, it dies, which I assume happens in equine medicine too. You need to realize that what you've seen of veterinary medicine is a very bad example and not at all representative of the way things actually work.

I know dozens of small animal vets who have the equivalent of a horse farm where they keep pets that get turned over, after they save them. I have never seen a save-able animal euthanized, they get turned over to the practice and a home is found after treatment is dispensed. You are grossly misinformed.

 

[luplodw]

You know you are just talking smack about your family?

 

[Brodiatrist]

...Seriously?

Yes

This is EXACTLY how every small animal clinic I've ever worked in has functioned.

No. Not enough.

You are grossly misinformed.

No. I've worked in or interned for exactly 12 clinics and many more farms, not to mention vet schools and this is exactly how it works, and while I'll never do it again.

 

[Brodiatrist]

You know you are just talking smack about your family?

Have you not been following? We do not do small domestic animals nor do we work for clinics. We do large exotics and equines.

 

[Brodiatrist]

My vet does all the work (often thousand dollar surgeries) for FREE. And you can say that she doesn't care about the animals and only sees dollar signs??

Rare breed.

 

[Brodiatrist]

Oh, so this is fair compensation, and vets are overpaid? Of course! I get it now!

The mean is actually higher, and yes well deserved. While I do not have the time to educate you about podiatry, you can look at wiki for that, I will tell you that in addition to 4 years of school we do a 3 year foot and ankle surgical residency. Well deserved, indeed.

 

[luplodw]

Actually I have been following and you specifically said multiple times that you were referring to the profession of veterinary medicine which includes small and large animal. And if you don't think that human medicine involves politics and money hungry people then you are totally misinformed. Seems like all medical fields are pretty similar.

 

[snapcall]

Also known as, you weren't smart enough to cut it, and vet schools wouldn't let you in. That explains where the bitterness comes from.

The more he posts, the more obvious it becomes that this is EXACTLY what's going on here.

 

[Rusty27]

''Americans continue to regard veterinarians highly, with the profession ranking third for honesty and ethics among 23 occupations in a recent Gallup poll. About 71 percent of survey respondents rated the honesty and ethical standards of veterinarians as high or very high. About 84 percent said the same for nurses, and about 73 percent for pharmacists. Physicians and dentists followed veterinarians—at 69 percent and 62 percent, respectively.''


From:
http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/feb07/070201o.asp




Can't be that many angry clients out there....

 

[Brodiatrist]

Coming from someone who isnt a prevet, your arguments are pretty weak. None of us care about your mommy and daddy and how terrible life was for them.

It's my father and sister, and our life was never terrible.

Go back to playing with stinky feet. Seems to be a profession that suits you better.

Podiatry has nothing to do with this discussion, other than to underscore that it is a real medical profession where the salary justifies the service, unlike vet medicine.

 

[Brodiatrist]

Actually I have been following and you specifically said multiple times that you were referring to the profession of veterinary medicine which includes small and large animal.

No, I said my family works with large animals. Since you missed my argument I was speaking of animal clinics, which deal mostly with small animals.

And if you don't think that human medicine involves politics and money hungry people then you are totally misinformed. Seems like all medical fields are pretty similar.

No.

 

[Brodiatrist]

The more he posts, the more obvious it becomes that this is EXACTLY what's going on here.

Tufts, would have been c/o 2010 before I decided on podiatry.

 

[rileyroo]

Podiatry has nothing to do with this discussion, other than to underscore that it is a real medical profession where the salary justifies the service, unlike vet medicine.

then why does anything related to veterinary medicine matter to you?

 

[Brodiatrist]

then why does anything related to veterinary medicine matter to you?

I'm a pet owner and know the workings of that system as I've worked there for years, unlike most of you with regard to my profession.

Furthermore the OP was asking why vets don't make as much as human doctors. I laid out the reasons, based on my personal experience. These are the facts. I still love animals, but the profession is just hypocritical.

 

[rileyroo]

I'm a pet owner and know the workings of that system as I've worked there for years, unlike most of you with regard to my profession.

Furthermore the OP was asking why vets don't make as much as human doctors. I laid out the reasons, based on my personal experience. These are the facts. I still love animals, but the profession is just hypocritical.

then don't own animals if you're going to continue to complain about being a** raped financially by the profession.

ETA: btw, it's just that - based on your personal experience. they aren't universal facts.

 

[vkajko]

I'm a pet owner and know the workings of that system as I've worked there for years, unlike most of you with regard to my profession.

Furthermore the OP was asking why vets don't make as much as human doctors. I laid out the reasons, based on my personal experience. These are the facts. I still love animals, but the profession is just hypocritical.

I have a really hard time believing anything out of your mouth is remotely truthful. You sound like someone who was bored decided to troll, got pawned, and now are trying to save yourself.

The classic starting to something racist, stupid and just plain ignorant, " I have friends who are black, but black people (racist remark)." " My family are vets, I own pets, worked in the in the field, and almost became a vet, but vets are (stupid remark)." Familiar much?

 

[EqSci]

most people don't get paid to kill their patients

That's because euthanasia is not an option in human medicine (unfortunately, in many peoples' opinions). Instead, humans are kept on life support for days/weeks/months on end at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars per day.

Pets, on the other hand, are humanely euthanized when there is nothing else than can be done for them. Yes, it costs money. Because the supplies, sedative, euth solution, and disposal all cost money.

And you can bet that if/when human euthanasia becomes legal, it will cost money as well.

 

[Brodiatrist]

then don't own animals if you're going to continue to complain about being a** raped financially by the profession.

ETA: btw, it's just that - based on your personal experience. they aren't universal facts.

Thats the POINT! WE have the profession in our hands (well, my family) and you as a vet. We get free care, we get discounts, etc. The public do not. Their animals die, ours live. It's a system built to fail.

 

[vkajko]

Thats the POINT! WE have the profession in our hands (well, my family) and you as a vet. We get free care, we get discounts, etc. The public do not. Their animals die, ours live. It's a system built to fail.

What? You are seriously delusional and please refer to what I said above.

 

[Brodiatrist]

I have a really hard time believing anything out of your mouth is remotely truthful. You sound like someone who was bored decided to troll, got pawned, and now are trying to save yourself.

The classic starting to something racist, stupid and just plain ignorant, " I have friends who are black, but black people (racist remark)." " My family are vets, I own pets, worked in the in the field, and almost became a vet, but vets are (stupid remark)." Familiar much?

Yes, I recall being in the animal ER last month with my sister when a HBC rottie came strolling in...you know how much that costs (broken bones galore, internal injuries, etc.) You give the patient 4 estimates, presenting the highest first. When he tells the vet to go to hell, you scramble and pull out the second highest estimate, lets say $4500 vs $5600 for arguments sake, taking into consideration extended care, etc...he still flips you off and tells you to kill the dog and walks out...they call him back..you're miraculously able to now charge him $3000 because said vet "loves animals" and didn't want to kill the dog. Sound familiar? Yes, it happens every day, almost half the medical cost cut away at the vets liking (the actual clinic owner, not sis btw). Sick.

 

[Brodiatrist]

What? You are seriously delusional and please refer to what I said above.

No pre-vet, I've lived it.

 

[vkajko]

Yes, I recall being in the animal ER last month with my sister when a HBC rottie came strolling in...you know how much that costs (broken bones galore, internal injuries, etc.) You give the patient 4 estimates, presenting the highest first. When he tells the vet to go to hell, you scramble and pull out the second highest estimate, lets say $4500 vs $5600 for arguments sake, taking into consideration extended care, etc...he still flips you off and tells you to kill the dog and walks out...they call him back..you're miraculously able to now charge him $3000 because said vet "loves animals" and didn't want to kill the dog. Sound familiar? Yes, it happens every day, almost half the medical cost cut away at the vets liking (the actual clinic owner, not sis btw). Sick.

Really its the owners fault. You buy a pet you pay the bills, you have a child you pay the bills. You take on responsibilties you pay for it. The only fault I can see in this little "story" is the owner of the dog. I would of simply asked the vet if they had a payment plan or a cheaper option. Not act like a child and storm out. You have no point.

 

[vkajko]

No pre-vet, I've lived it.

Thats lovely. Lets point out ranks. According to you I have no knowledge and you are God. By all you logic when you become a foot doctor you should charge nothing. After all you will cut off someones foot if they can't pay. Just like how a vet will supposedly kill your pet.

 

[Brodiatrist]

And you can bet that if/when human euthanasia becomes legal, it will cost money as well.

Here's the difference.

Vet: Ms. Smith your HBC poodle will be $1500 or we can kill it.
Ms. Smith: That's insane, I don't have that kind of money, kill it.

Dr.: Mr. Smith, you have terminal cancer. You will die in within 3 months in hospice or we can do it now.
Mr. Smith: Do it now.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[dyachei]

Yes, I recall being in the animal ER last month with my sister when a HBC rottie came strolling in...you know how much that costs (broken bones galore, internal injuries, etc.) You give the patient 4 estimates, presenting the highest first. When he tells the vet to go to hell, you scramble and pull out the second highest estimate, lets say $4500 vs $5600 for arguments sake, taking into consideration extended care, etc...he still flips you off and tells you to kill the dog and walks out...they call him back..you're miraculously able to now charge him $3000 because said vet "loves animals" and didn't want to kill the dog. Sound familiar? Yes, it happens every day, almost half the medical cost cut away at the vets liking (the actual clinic owner, not sis btw). Sick.

The only time I've seen the vet change prices to accomodate the client is when the client absolutely cannot pay and the vet makes decisions on what the most important treatments and tests are. It's not based on arbitrary prices. In an ideal world, we'd be able to run all the diagnostics and treat all the problems, but if a dog comes in HBC, although blood work would be nice, maybe the most important thing to do is relieving the pneumothorax/pleural effusion.

Oh, and we're not all pre-vets, thanks.

I'm sorry that you seem to have had bad experiences with the area in which you've seen vet med practiced, but it's certainly not the norm.

 

[vkajko]

Here's the difference.

Vet: Ms. Smith your HBC poodle will be $1500 or we can kill it.
Ms. Smith: That's insane, I don't have that kind of money, kill it.

Dr.: Mr. Smith, you have terminal cancer. You will die in within 3 months in hospice or we can do it now.
Mr. Smith: Do it now.

Apples and Oranges.

WHAT? It is the same thing the only difference is the words you are using.

 

[Brodiatrist]

Thats lovely. Lets point out ranks.

You assume I know nothing about vet medicine, while that may be true in regard with you and my profession, I do know about yours. It's about experience, not rank.

According to you I have no knowledge and you are God.

No. See above.

By all you logic when you become a foot doctor you should charge nothing. After all you will cut off someones foot if they can't pay. Just like how a vet will supposedly kill your pet.

I charge nothing because by law I cannot and there is no reason to with the current health care system, unless it's elective surgery. Whereas vets charge what they want, when they want, often ending in a killed animal. That's my point.

 

[sumstorm]

My 2nd year colleagues have yet to learn or even use one on a patient, as its not protocol for our clinic participation. However this summer I had the opportunity to perform physical exams with a podiatrist who assured me that podiatry students/residents will be expected to know how to check blood pressure/pulses/etc. However, I'm noticing not even attendings or ANY upperclassman carrying one, so I feel like a tool. Should I keep it home from now on? Advice from anyone?

This is his/her only other thread on the forums. apparently s/he can't even figure out whether or not to carry or use a steth and is worried about looking like a tool. no wonder s/he wouldn't be able to hack it in vet med and feels the need to put everyone else down.

Here is some advice; get over yourself. Spend time among your colleagues rather than slamming a profession because you have some angst. Were you really so foolish as to NEED a podiatrist to tell you that you will need to know how to check pulses? Seriously, I hope beyond belief you are never within a 100 mile radius of my family; I would hate to have you doing any of the diabetic footwork on my husband. I would rather have an unlicensed vet tech than someone smart enough to get in school but apparently not smart enough to know, without being told, that circulation is important to extremeties.

Wait, wait....instead, please let me know where you will work. I know hundreds of folk who can't qualify for health care who have neuropathies and are in danger of gangrene of the extremities due to diabetes and other illnesses. While I wouldn't let you touch a loved one, I will gladly send you lots of people who would take any med care they could get because the current human system completly excludes them...and you are such a kind, giving human that you will certainly cover all the costs of their care our of your pocket. Obviously...because us vets are the selfish, overpaid folk and you do everything for free and the betterment of mankind.

 

[david594]

Yes, I recall being in the animal ER last month with my sister when a HBC rottie came strolling in...you know how much that costs (broken bones galore, internal injuries, etc.) You give the patient 4 estimates, presenting the highest first. When he tells the vet to go to hell, you scramble and pull out the second highest estimate, lets say $4500 vs $5600 for arguments sake, taking into consideration extended care, etc...he still flips you off and tells you to kill the dog and walks out...they call him back..you're miraculously able to now charge him $3000 because said vet "loves animals" and didn't want to kill the dog. Sound familiar? Yes, it happens every day, almost half the medical cost cut away at the vets liking (the actual clinic owner, not sis btw). Sick.

Sounds about right. This is as opposed to human medicine where they would do the $5600 one, but since its human medicine, more like $15,000 and just send their insurance company a bill. If they didnt have insurance(and cant pay the bill) they would try and work out a payment plan for basically the rest of their life. And if that didn't work, they would just sell the debt to a collections company.

And yeah, I spent the last 2 years working in the animal ER going over the estimates with the clients. We always offered the best level of care first, and if that wasn't financially possibly we would start chopping things off the estimate.

 

[Brodiatrist]

WHAT? It is the same thing the only difference is the words you are using.

No. My point is comparing animal and human end of life is irrelevant. Poodle dies because owner does not have the money. Human dies regardless, it's simply a matter of whether or not he has the money to die sooner. In vet medicine most animals die if they have traumatic, yet correctable, injuries because the prices are too high, and often set by the vet. It's murder.

 

[Brodiatrist]

. Were you really so foolish as to NEED a podiatrist to tell you that you will need to know how to check pulses?

No, if you read the whole thread it was regarding the appropriate time to bring an instrument to the clinic if your classmates have not been trained on it and you have. I'm sure your family will receive quality care within or beyond a 100 mile radius of me, which, might I point out, has nothing to do with this discussion. Podiatry is now my life, and I'm proud of that.

 

[Brodiatrist]

Sounds about right. This is as opposed to human medicine where they would do the $5600 one, but since its human medicine, more like $15,000 and just send their insurance company a bill. If they didnt have insurance(and cant pay the bill) they would try and work out a payment plan for basically the rest of their life. And if that didn't work, they would just sell the debt to a collections company.

And yeah, I spent the last 2 years working in the animal ER going over the estimates with the clients. We always offered the best level of care first, and if that wasn't financially possibly we would start chopping things off the estimate.

Exactly. It's not easy.

 

[vkajko]

You assume I know nothing about vet medicine, while that may be true in regard with you and my profession, I do know about yours. It's about experience, not rank.



No. See above.



I charge nothing because by law I cannot and there is no reason to with the current health care system, unless it's elective surgery. Whereas vets charge what they want, when they want, often ending in a killed animal. That's my point.

Human med and vet med are different. No laws for us so of course we would charge what we want. We would have to charge TO MAKE A LIVING. I am not going to vet school so I can work for free, but to work for MONEY. That is what a higher education is for to get more MONEY. To live in this world you have to make MONEY. But you seem to want us to not make money nor get anything for the work we do. And no vet kills animals because people can't pay. If we did we would be out of a job. You seriously must be going to the John Wayne Gacy of vets.

 

[vkajko]

No. My point is comparing animal and human end of life is irrelevant. Poodle dies because owner does not have the money. Human dies regardless, it's simply a matter of whether or not he has the money to die sooner. In vet medicine most animals die if they have traumatic, yet correctable, injuries because the prices are too high, and often set by the vet. It's murder.

And the same with humans. Seriously you really have rose colored glasses on, to think that in human med this doesn't happen too.

 

[VAgirl]

Not that this thread doesn't make my blood boil as much as it does for everyone else, but this person is ill informed and obviously never going to change that point of view. He/she wants to believe that vets are evil, and that's that. To the SDN vet regulars, if you're having fun arguing with this troll, keep at it, it can be fun. But if you're arguing to try and change this *****'s mind, it's never going to happen. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[jpeterman13]

Podiatry is now my life, and I'm proud of that.

keeeeeep telling yourself that

 

[Brodiatrist]

Human med and vet med are different..

Which was why you're comparison of EOL issues was totally irrelevant.

 

[vkajko]

Not that this thread doesn't make my blood boil as much as it does for everyone else, but this person is ill informed and obviously never going to change that point of view. He/she wants to believe that vets are evil, and that's that. To the SDN vet regulars, if you're having fun arguing with this troll, keep at it, it can be fun. But if you're arguing to try and change this *****'s mind, it's never going to happen. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I seriously love arguing with people like this. They will never change their mind, but their comments make for good laughs.

 

[sumstorm]

poor Brody.... he would have been torn up and spit out in the med school threads, hence why he is over here stomping his feet and whining because vets get paid. Just horrible that someone could provide care for an animal and get paid. He is going in a profession where he doesn't charge...and yet, I am willing ot bet that he takes money! Amazing, the money he will get, it must be coming from the fortune tree, because it obviously never comes from the clients/patients.

I wish I knew what 12 places he worked, including his family's supposed practice. I would love to share all the great information he is providing for the public. Hmm....12 vet clinics, and he is in podiatry. I wonder why on earth he had to keep changing clinics? I mean, I would have thought 3-4 and he would have found one that he fit in with...... I would propose the common denominator, Brody, is the problem.

Lets ignore the fact that many of us also aren't in small animal practice....I guess we are suppose to work for free too...because that is what people like Brody want; vets to work for nothing so they don't have any costs to when as pet owners.

 

[Brodiatrist]

Not that this thread doesn't make my blood boil as much as it does for everyone else, but this person is ill informed and obviously never going to change that point of view. He/she wants to believe that vets are evil, and that's that. To the SDN vet regulars, if you're having fun arguing with this troll, keep at it, it can be fun. But if you're arguing to try and change this *****'s mind, it's never going to happen. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Simply discuss the matter at hand. I'm certainly open to matters of opinion and changing my view. You seem like someone with experience, have a go at it..are you not aware of price gouging in the vet field? Do clinicians not make their own prices and vary estimates WIDELY? Discuss.

 

[twelvetigers]

Which was why you're comparison of EOL issues was totally irrelevant.

Gah, I HATE it when people get "your" and "you're" mixed up.