Should I become a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist

[futuredo32]

Is it longer? For some of our specialties it's an eight year course post bachelors. Wouldn't that be the same as med school and psychiatry residency?

Then perhaps not longer. I have never heard anyone say that the education and training are as difficult and time consuming as medical school plus residency nor as expensive.

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[WisNeuro]

Then perhaps not longer. I have never heard anyone say that the education and training are as difficult and time consuming as medical school plus residency nor as expensive.

I've classes in both, difficulty is similar, just a different kind of learning. Time consuming is debatable. Remember that we are learning therapy, assessment, and research, while completing a masters and dissertation research projcts. In the heart of grad school, 60-80 hour weeks are the norm. Cost would vary wildly. Most reputable programs are fully funded for us, but also depends on CoL and the diploma mills are quite expensive.

 

[futuredo32]

I've classes in both, difficulty is similar, just a different kind of learning. Time consuming is debatable. Remember that we are learning therapy, assessment, and research, while completing a masters and dissertation research projcts. In the heart of grad school, 60-80 hour weeks are the norm. Cost would vary wildly. Most reputable programs are fully funded for us, but also depends on CoL and the diploma mills are quite expensive.

Did you have to take call and work 30 hour shifts regularly? 80 hours was the supposed minimum per week, but I worked many weeks far more hours. I'm 400k in student loan debt and except for one semester in undergrad, it's all med school debt. I'm guessing that only a person who has done both could accurately compare, and even then it would be based on the school and residency program. I can say the therapists and I know said it wasn't too bad for them , but that's it. A few got their PhD part-time so it was leisurely comparatively speaking. Some residency programs are cushy with light hours, mine wasn't. Neither was the traditional rotating internship I did prior to residency.

 

[WisNeuro]

Did you have to take call and work 30 hour shifts regularly? 80 hours was the supposed minimum per week, but I worked many weeks far more hours. I'm 400k in student loan debt and except for one semester in undergrad, it's all med school debt. I'm guessing that only a person who has done both could accurately compare, and even then it would be based on the school and residency program. I can say the therapists and I know said it wasn't too bad for them , but that's it. A few got their PhD part-time so it was leisurely comparatively speaking. Some residency programs are cushy with light hours, mine wasn't. Neither was the traditional rotating internship I did prior to residency.

My 30 hour shifts were mostly coding or 100 page writing marathons to make deadlines Just commenting on the issue of "difficulty" as It's probably equivalent, just different. I actually found the med school coursework easier, as I can do rote memorization with ease.

Can't speak to the part-time PhDers, as the only part time programs I know are diploma mills, so not really comparable. As for the loan debt, side issue, as med school cost, like graduate school, is highly variable and that's a choice you make.

 

[futuredo32]

My 30 hours were involving patient contact. I was exhausted but had to be sharp . So, in that respect, I would say residency is more difficult. People's lives depend on the decisions a resident makes, not equivalent in that aspect.
For the OP, I really think it depends on whether or not you want to be a physician. As psychiatry residencies are becoming more competitive, what would happen if you didn't match into a psychiatry residency?

 

[WisNeuro]

Patient contact is easy, trying to find errors in thousands of lines of code, now that's a difficult task. Po-tay-to, potahto.

 

[futuredo32]

Except you can't kill anyone in coding. A patient's life vs error in code. Seriously? I'm going to assume you are kidding. Have a great day.

Patient contact is easy, trying to find errors in thousands of lines of code, now that's a difficult task. Po-tay-to, potahto.

 

[WisNeuro]

Except you can't kill anyone in coding. A patient's life vs error in code. Seriously? I'm going to assume you are kidding. Have a great day.

Oh man, you can definitely kill someone with coding. Just look at the 737 Max. Plus, you have ton of checks and balances, ease up. Not kidding though, difficult in different ways, I don't think one is all that much harder than the other for people who have the mental aptitude.

 

[Mad Jack]

You know there's the rxp for psychologist to prescribe? Rudimentary chem and skills

Even most fully trained physicians struggle to properly prescribe psychopharmaceuticals. Given the vast drug-drug and drug-illness interactions that psychiatric medications have, it's really concerning that there's a push for people without basic training in pathophysiology and pharmacology to prescribe one of the most notorious classes of medications with regard to interactions and side effects

 

[futuredo32]

Oh man, you can definitely kill someone with coding. Just look at the 737 Max. Plus, you have ton of checks and balances, ease up. Not kidding though, difficult in different ways, I don't think one is all that much harder than the other for people who have the mental aptitude.

I have no idea how spending on hours reviewing coding makes you better at your job (and no I don't need an explanation). I did a traditional rotating internship at a small community hospital before residency. We did five weeks of nights. Two interns covered the hospital with a second or third year IM resident for back up for codes and essential questions at night. During the very end of my five weeks there were three codes all at the same time. I had to run a code alone. What checks and balances? I had none. The rapid response team was split between the first two codes. The fact that I was going into psychiatry was irrelevant, it was my responsibility to care for this patient. In medicine you are a physician first. You are expected to know other areas of medicine. While moonlighting, a patient had a grand mal seizure because the psychiatrist who was seeing her tapered her benzodiazepines down too fast. She then coded. I called for a rapid response, but I had to run the code until they arrived . Where I am currently working, it is a free standing psychiatric hospital. We have an internist who will do consults in the morning, but if he's on vacation, we do all of the medication management. A patient develops physical symptoms in the afternoon after he has rounded, it's on us. No checks and balances. A psychiatrist has to keep up with psychotropic medications as well as general medicine. Go ahead and continue thinking they are just different. It's really not helping the OP with the initial question and it's interesting that you think coding and writing papers is difficult in a different way to keeping people alive or making a clinical decision that could harm a human being. Again, have a nice day.

 

[WisNeuro]

Nerve touched, apparently. And point missed. No worries. If you want to explicate this further, feel free to PM me. It does however get at the issue for the OP as people had commented on difficulty, which is subjective, and with there being many components to training (academic coursework, clinical work, research training and application, hours, legal involvement, etc) we could debate that issue for various pieces of that puzzle.

 

[futuredo32]

Nerve touched, apparently. And point missed. No worries. If you want to explicate this further, feel free to PM me. It does however get at the issue for the OP as people had commented on difficulty, which is subjective, and with there being many components to training (academic coursework, clinical work, research training and application, hours, legal involvement, etc) we could debate that issue for various pieces of that puzzle.

No nerve touched, just surprise. No desire to discuss further.

 

[WisNeuro]

Agree to disagree on those accounts, then

 

[mmiller1998]

Do you want to be a physician? You have to prescribe medications and manage side effects. If not, psychiatry is not for you Medical school and residency are difficult and demanding Are you willing to make the sacrifice, financially physically and emotionally for the longer route?. I LOVE doing psychotherapy. I chose a therapy heavy residency program and saw as many therapy patients as I could. I went through a psychodynamic course during my last year of residency. Psychotherapy doesn't pay well. I get my psychotherapy fix by having a micro private practice. If you want to do private practice with a lot of therapy, you won't likely make as much as other psychiatrists unless you do cash only. Most positions for psychiatrists are for medication management and evaluations, not therapy. I was offered a position with a fee split and they were willing to let me do psychotherapy, and that is the only position I have ever been offered that would let me do psychotherapy. I am in psychoanalysis with a psychiatrist and he has a 70/30 split where he works and sees a lot of therapy patients but doesn't earn as much as he would if he did exclusively or more med management appointments.

To be honest, The length of school does not bother me.. it’s finding the best way to get to my goals that is bothering me... I’m willing to make the sacrifices for the career that I want or am working towards.. when it comes to finances that’s not my reasoning behind wanting to enter a career. I want to have more than one tool to help patients.

 

[futuredo32]

To be honest, The length of school does not bother me.. it’s finding the best way to get to my goals that is bothering me... I’m willing to make the sacrifices for the career that I want or am working towards.. when it comes to finances that’s not my reasoning behind wanting to enter a career. I want to have more than one tool to help patients.

Understandable. With psychiatry so popular this year, I'm guessing it will be more popular after you finish medical school. If you didn't match into psychiatry would FP be ok with you? They treat a lot of psych issues. I'm really surprised at how many people were unmatched for psych this year. I have just known people who went to med school with the intent of being a surgeon or optho and they didn't match and didn't go further. You may well match into psych, but in case..........

 

[mmiller1998]

Understandable. With psychiatry so popular this year, I'm guessing it will be more popular after you finish medical school. If you didn't match into psychiatry would FP be ok with you? They treat a lot of psych issues. I'm really surprised at how many people were unmatched for psych this year. I have just known people who went to med school with the intent of being a surgeon or optho and they didn't match and didn't go further. You may well match into psych, but in case..........

That is one thing that scares me... I’m not sure how I will feel if I wouldn’t match into psychiatry. That’s something I’ve considered for years and if I didn’t match I would be at a stand still.. hence another reason why I’m still so thoughtful about this. I have many goals for mental health throughout this world... and without matching I’m not sure how I could do it in medicine... with the plans I have.

 

[WisNeuro]

That is one thing that scares me... I’m not sure how I will feel if I wouldn’t match into psychiatry. That’s something I’ve considered for years and if I didn’t match I would be at a stand still.. hence another reason why I’m still so thoughtful about this. I have many goals for mental health throughout this world... and without matching I’m not sure how I could do it in medicine... with the plans I have.

If it's any consolation, either career path will inevitably lead you to a disillusionment with the US healthcare system

 

[TexasPhysician]

That is one thing that scares me... I’m not sure how I will feel if I wouldn’t match into psychiatry. That’s something I’ve considered for years and if I didn’t match I would be at a stand still.. hence another reason why I’m still so thoughtful about this. I have many goals for mental health throughout this world... and without matching I’m not sure how I could do it in medicine... with the plans I have.

Thats a mindset worth trying to change if you go to medical school. Psychiatrists are first physicians, and I’d argue that such knowledge is what makes us good at what we do. Even if FP, there is a lot of mental health in daily care.

Just recently I saw a patient that had been to multiple midlevels over years for depression. While depression was clearly evident, they all missed the underlying medical condition that contributed to the depression. The right referral made a world of difference. It is that dedication to absorbing every other aspect of medical care that sets us apart.