Should I take Echo Boards?

[ImMaster]

Just wanted to get some of you guys input on the pros and cons of taking echo boards. I've asked my seniors and the consensus seems to be mixed. Some mention that soon we will be required to be board certified to read echos, or that it can make you more marketable. While on the flip side, I've talked to some recent grads who got jobs reading echos, or have a nice certificate at home accumulating dust while they are doing Interventional/EP.

Obviously, I understand that it will depend on your career (non-invasive vs invasive) to practice environment (academic vs private/community center).

Just wanted to get your thoughts.

General career plans: Interventional. Undecided about academics or private.

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[uselessmember]

I'm planning for Interventional and will be taking the echo boards. I think it's a marketable skill to have and you'll be covered in case it does require board certification in the future.

 

[FreakofMeds]

Pros: Future proof. Additionally, you will not "learn echos" unless you study for the boards. It forces to look at things you would otherwise never hear about.
Cons: Expense, needs significant time dedicated to it. Tough exam with a low pass rate (~65%), and failing it may affect your morale.

Myself, I am interested in Interventional, but I will get every possible board under the sun including Echo / Nuclear.

 

[sacrament]

Additionally, you will not "learn echos" unless you study for the boards. It forces to look at things you would otherwise never hear about.

You will look at things you otherwise never would have heard about. And then you'll never hear--or think--about them ever again, or at least not until you recertify. The test is very divorced from day-to-day clinical echocardiography.
I will admit that studying for the echo boards finally solidified my understanding of some anatomic features of congenital heart disease.

 

[Myostatin]

Its a complete waste of time. There will not be a day where echo boards are required to bill for echos, it simply will not happen as there would be a total revolt among general cardiologists, and besides echos pay so poorly these days that the insurance companies don't have it on their radar anymore as a way to cut costs significantly.

Don't waste your time and money on this subspecialty boards nonsense. Its nothing more than a money making scheme for the testing agencies / administrators.

To FreakofMeds - its absurd to say that you will not learn echo without studying for the echo boards. First off, generally i've found physicians to be pretty self motivated to get to where they are, paying a $2000 fee should not be the motivation for studying what you need to. Second, Sacrament is absolutely right that the echo boards are of minimal relevance to clinical care. They're going to ask you to calculate pressure half times with just a velocity tracing and no tools, and lots of questions about ultrasound physics and nyquist limits... now I like physics more than most, but is this relevant to clinical practice? I have no idea why on earth would you want to get every board posible under the sun... its a bunch of nonsense invented as money making schemes for testing agencies and administrators, and will cease to exist once we stop buying into it. Keep in mind that you recertify every 10 years, take time away from practice studying for each of these boards, purhcase courses and educational materials (IM, cardiology, echo, nuc, interventional, possibly vascular ultrasound and the interventional vascular boards as well if you're going to to do interventional).... do the math how much money you're going to waste on this stuff over the course of your career (all that money is going to paying these administrators more than you will make as an interventionalist, btw)

Cardiologists spend 11+ years to learn their art, to say that boards are required to demonstrate compentence is a slap in the face to the entire process of medical training.... if that's the case why not just skip the 11 yrs for anyone capable of passing all the boards... lol!

 

[hotshotdoc]

I would recommend taking the echo boards, no matter what you want to do in the future- interventional, non-invasive or something else.
I definitely learnt a lot while reading for the boards. Yes, i did read about some rare esoteric things but i certainly read more about clinically relevant things (some of which i had been ignoring in clinical practice). Depending upon how strong Imaging is at your teaching program, you may or may not have to study hard for the test. Unfortunately Imaging is bad at my program, thus i learnt a lot just from the preparation for the test.
I do agree that board exams can be very expensive. They should be made free of charge!

 

[FreakofMeds]

To FreakofMeds - its absurd to say that you will not learn echo without studying for the echo boards. First off, generally i've found physicians to be pretty self motivated to get to where they are, paying a $2000 fee should not be the motivation for studying what you need to. Second, Sacrament is absolutely right that the echo boards are of minimal relevance to clinical care. They're going to ask you to calculate pressure half times with just a velocity tracing and no tools, and lots of questions about ultrasound physics and nyquist limits... now I like physics more than most, but is this relevant to clinical practice? I have no idea why on earth would you want to get every board posible under the sun... its a bunch of nonsense invented as money making schemes for testing agencies and administrators, and will cease to exist once we stop buying into it. Keep in mind that you recertify every 10 years, take time away from practice studying for each of these boards, purhcase courses and educational materials (IM, cardiology, echo, nuc, interventional, possibly vascular ultrasound and the interventional vascular boards as well if you're going to to do interventional).... do the math how much money you're going to waste on this stuff over the course of your career (all that money is going to paying these administrators more than you will make as an interventionalist, btw)

Cardiologists spend 11+ years to learn their art, to say that boards are required to demonstrate compentence is a slap in the face to the entire process of medical training.... if that's the case why not just skip the 11 yrs for anyone capable of passing all the boards... lol!

A combination of both boards and training are important to make a competent physician. If you don't go through the boards, the process of learning echos will be highly variable, dependent on your attending and echo reading would be relinquished to Roman-time thumbs up / thumbs down of whether the EF is ICD zone or not. Boards/ USMLEs / Exams are an important standardization tool to assess knowledge. Without them, you would be no different than a nurse practitioner who has been in a cardiology practice for 11 years. Quality of programs around the country are extremely variable. Some of them have little to no teaching. Just having a "3 year fellowship" training does not actually mean you got adequately trained. My 2 cents.

 

[Trifling Jester]

I think it's a waste of time. I didn't do it. I have had no problems getting privileges everywhere I want to read echos. Even if they make it a requirement in the future (which I personally doubt they would) you would be grandfathered in.

 

[braunwald]

A combination of both boards and training are important to make a competent physician. If you don't go through the boards, the process of learning echos will be highly variable, dependent on your attending and echo reading would be relinquished to Roman-time thumbs up / thumbs down of whether the EF is ICD zone or not. Boards/ USMLEs / Exams are an important standardization tool to assess knowledge. Without them, you would be no different than a nurse practitioner who has been in a cardiology practice for 11 years. Quality of programs around the country are extremely variable. Some of them have little to no teaching. Just having a "3 year fellowship" training does not actually mean you got adequately trained. My 2 cents.

Hello, had u taken the asce exam practice test: any idea what would be a reasonable score to expect to pass the actual exam?