Silent Rejections from schools that send out rejections?

[eartharte]

If there's a school that's already sent out pre-II rejections, does that mean eventually everyone will hear back one way or another (whether it's an R or an II)?

I'm wondering because I applied to so many schools that have already sent out pre-II R's and it's still silence for me (which I'm hopeful about), so I was curious as to if I would eventually hear back from them

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[r2med]

Would schools send R to some applicants and not to others or are they usually consistent with how they respond to all applicants?

 

[KnightDoc]

All applicants start as unaccepted/rejected. A school is only required to contact an applicant concerning an interview or an acceptance. Schools are under no obligation to inform applicants of any other action if any. Indeed, many schools will never any formal rejection decision or communication to an applicant.

Yes, yes, yes -- you have said this so many times that I hear it in my dreams!!!

But, that wasn't the question. The question asked specifically whether schools would reject some candidates while ghosting others, since, as you have repeatedly pointed out, SOME schools ghost candidates they are not interested in.

As a mere premed, I don't have your level of exposure or experience, but common sense tells me the answer is that schools that actually send out Rs will ultimately send one to everyone who doesn't ultimately receive an A, since the alternative would be providing greater transparency to those they really don't want than to those who are closer to an II.

 

[eartharte]

Yes, yes, yes -- you have said this so many times that I hear it in my dreams!!!

But, that wasn't the question. The question asked specifically whether schools would reject some candidates while ghosting others, since, as you have repeatedly pointed out, SOME schools ghost candidates they are not interested in.

As a mere premed, I don't have your level of exposure or experience, but common sense tells me the answer is that schools that actually send out Rs will ultimately send one to everyone who doesn't ultimately receive an A, since the alternative would be providing greater transparency to those they really don't want than to those who are closer to an II.

Yes this is exactly what I was wondering! Thanks for clarifying in case I didn't get my point across in my OP.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yes this is exactly what I was wondering! Thanks for clarifying in case I didn't get my point across in my OP.

You got your point across perfectly!

It's just that some of the revered adcoms, @gonnif among them, have responded to the same question so many times over the years that they sometimes don't read carefully enough before responding. Ironically, a sin that would be considered inexcusable if we did it under the stress of an interview situation. Just another reason why it sucks to be us!!!

 

[southernhope1]

I have had the same question....let's take UChicago and Brown...two schools that have been brutal with their wave of rejections over the past 48 hours. By sending out so many pre-IIs rejects, they've established that they are schools that *loudly* reject....nothing silent about theirs. Therefore,I would think that anyone who survived this red wedding of a week, is someone that they are still actively considering.

 

[KnightDoc]

I have had the same question....let's take UChicago and Brown...two schools that have been brutal with their wave of rejections over the past 48 hours. By sending out so many pre-IIs rejects, they've established that they are schools that *loudly* reject....nothing silent about theirs. Therefore,I would think that anyone who survived this red wedding of a week, is someone that they are still actively considering.

Definitely. And I think it is entirely reasonably to assume that if and when you are no longer under consideration, you will receive no less transparency than those who boldly came before you.

 

[r2med]

Yes I would assume schools being consistent. It will be hard to follow different rules. Of course if they want to keep some applicants till the very last minute, there might be silence till then

 

[eartharte]

Thanks y'all for shedding your light on this. Most of my applications were complete mid July and August (and very few trickling in September and October), and many, if not most, of the schools I applied to have sent out waves of rejections for applicants well past my submission dates. I guess I'm just hoping that silence > rejection still holds at this point!

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks y'all for shedding your light on this. Most of my applications were complete mid July and August (and very few trickling in September and October), and many, if not most, of the schools I applied to have sent out waves of rejections for applicants well past my submission dates. I guess I'm just hoping that silence > rejection still holds at this point!

Totally. Just be careful not to fall into the SDN trap of assuming apps are reviewed chronologically. At most schools, they aren't.

You might have been reviewed and put aside for later consideration. It's equally possible you haven't been reviewed yet at all, depending on how buried your schools are given the huge increase in apps this cycle, where they are in the process, and just how your app was stratified.

Absolutely, if people are receiving Rs and you haven't, you are still in the game. But don't be tempted to read more into it than that, because nobody knows whether the lack of a R is positive or neutral at this point in the cycle. All you know for sure is that it definitely isn't negative!!

 

[r2med]

Totally. Just be careful not to fall into the SDN trap of assuming apps are reviewed chronologically. At most schools, they aren't.

You might have been reviewed and put aside for later consideration. It's equally possible you haven't been reviewed yet at all, depending on how buried your schools are given the huge increase in apps this cycle, where they are in the process, and just how your app was stratified.

Absolutely, if people are receiving Rs and you haven't, you are still in the game. But don't be tempted to read more into it than that, because nobody knows whether the lack of a R is positive or neutral at this point in the cycle. All you know for sure is that it definitely isn't negative!!

I got an II today from an app completed mid July.

 

[AnitaZ464]

I got an II today from an app completed mid July.

Did your idea of getting an II or R by nudging through an update bear any fruit? I know that was a very contentious topic on a different thread and I am not proposing to re-start that thread here but just wondering if you experimented at all with the theory and any subsequent observations from the experiment. Again, not looking to have a bunch of people start bashing the theory all over again. Any observations would obviously be a small data set.

 

[r2med]

Did your idea of getting an II or R by nudging through an update bear any fruit? I know that was a very contentious topic on a different thread and I am not proposing to re-start that thread here but just wondering if you experimented at all with the theory and any subsequent observations from the experiment. Again, not looking to have a bunch of people start bashing the theory all over again. Any observations would obviously be a small data set.

Got only one II after update but other SDNers also got II, so mine not due to update. Update was read by interviewers. No decision yet. So can't give you any conclusions

 

[KnightDoc]

Got only one II after update but other SDNers also got II, so mine not due to update. Update was read by interviewers. No decision yet. So can't give you any conclusions

Basically, the debate will rage on forever, unresolved. If @AnitaZ464 is motivated to go into school specific threads, all possibilities can be found -- people who send updates and shortly thereafter receive a positive action and swear it's due to the update, people who are shocked that they send an update and shortly thereafter receive a negative action and wonder whether the update provoked it, as well as people who don't send updates and also receive positive or negative outcomes.

The bottom line is to absolutely feel free to send updates if they are welcome and you have something significant to say,and to control yourself and not send one if the school indicates it isn't receptive to them. LOIs are an entire other can of worms!

 

[CricB4Tube]

All applicants start as unaccepted/rejected. A school is only required to contact an applicant concerning an interview or an acceptance. Schools are under no obligation to inform applicants of any other action if any. Indeed, many schools will never any formal rejection decision or communication to an applicant.

So some schools don't even have the decency to send a decision email to applicants who paid $100+ to apply to their program? This sounds pretty messed up.

 

[CricB4Tube]

You started with a decision: Not accepted

I've never seen anything like that stated on any application or school website. I understand you're not accepted until accepted, but it seems like a poor policy to not even send an email to someone who just wrote a bunch of essays and sent over $100 to a school. Kind of a slap in the face to applicants as if we aren't worth an automated email.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

So some schools don't even have the decency to send a decision email to applicants who paid $100+ to apply to their program? This sounds pretty messed up.

Yeah, it is messed up. Common courtesy would be to send you some notification. This idea that you are rejected / not accepted as a starting point is made up.

 

[FalconSlice]

I've never seen anything like that stated on any application or school website. I understand you're not accepted until accepted, but it seems like a poor policy to not even send an email to someone who just wrote a bunch of essays and sent over $100 to a school. Kind of a slap in the face to applicants as if we aren't worth an automated email.

If you want a career in medicine, you have to accept and get used to being treated like this...

 

[CricB4Tube]

Why would you? Anything you ever apply to in your life you start as non-accepted. Medical schools are deciding who to admit and the only communication required to applicants by the LCME rule are for interview invitations and acceptances/alternates. There are not other communications required.

I get that it's not technically required, but I still think it's a very inconsiderate policy if a school chooses to leave applicants in the dark. I'll stop beating a dead horse and just keep this in mind if I ever find myself involved with an admissions committee.

 

[spottedcory]

I get that it's not technically required, but I still think it's a very inconsiderate policy if a school chooses to leave applicants in the dark. I'll stop beating a dead horse and just keep this in mind if I ever find myself involved with an admissions committee.

I think even schools that silent reject during the cycle will send a (courtesy?) reject email in March (or later, some at the start of the school year I believe, lol). I agree though that it would be inconsiderate for schools to not send anything period.

If you want a career in medicine, you have to accept and get used to being treated like this...

Also, we're supposed to be lEaDeRs iN mEdIcInE, so I'm finding it hard to stomach that we should just accept treatment that we're not okay with just because it's currently the way things are. Even if it's just through discussion (and I recognize that this issue is definitely not as pressing as others in medicine), I believe that change starts with admitting that maybe this practice might not be the best

 

[r2med]

I think even schools that silent reject during the cycle will send a (courtesy?) reject email in March (or later, some at the start of the school year I believe, lol). I agree though that it would be inconsiderate for schools to not send anything period.

Also, we're supposed to be lEaDeRs iN mEdIcInE, so I'm finding it hard to stomach that we should just accept treatment that we're not okay with just because it's currently the way things are. Even if it's just through discussion (and I recognize that this issue is definitely not as pressing as others in medicine), I believe that change starts with admitting that maybe this practice might not be the best

God complex - I get 11k apps for 100 seats - I only care about the 200 that I accept - to hell with the other 10.8k!

Arrogance from some schools make some physicians also arrogant, I suppose!

 

[KnightDoc]

God complex - I get 11k apps for 100 seats - I only care about the 200 that I accept - to hell with the other 10.8k!

Arrogance from some schools make some physicians also arrogant, I suppose!

It's got nothing to do with any complex, and everything to do with the so-called "sellers' market" and some of them just being dicks. They know they are under no obligation to do right by the vast majority of applicants, in whom they have no interest and whose application fees fund their office operations, so they don't.

Knowing you will be treated like s**t will not stop anyone from applying to a single school, so there is no consequence. Some schools really go out of their way to be transparent, kind, helpful, etc. Others don't. It is what it is. Accept it and move on.

 

[r2med]

Accept it and move on.

Is there a choice?

 

[KnightDoc]

Is there a choice?

Yup. Only apply to schools that treat applicants well.

I plan on employing a modified form of this myself next cycle. I'm not so much hung up on whether or not I receive constant communication, since I can read between the lines and figure out what not hearing from a school means when literally scores of folks on SDN are reporting IIs.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm up for waiting for a post every Monday to see whether I am one of a handful of people across the country to receive an II as invitations are dribbled out in small handfuls over months. Also not sure I'm prepared to kiss a** with weekly letters professing my undying devotion to a school located at the North Pole that accepts like two people per year when there are several other schools similarly ranked, less needy, a little easier to get into and located in significantly less miserable locations that I am equally capable of being rejected by.

At the end of the day, nobody gets treated like s**t unless they allow it. Everyone has to decide for themselves just how much they are willing to tolerate. Being ghosted is not the end of the world for me, so that's fine, but there are certain abusive practices that I just don't feel I need to subject myself to. Maybe I'll be shooting myself in the foot, but, given the odds, the chances are extremely high that I will never be accepted by most of these schools anyway, so my goal will be to exit the process with a tiny shred of my dignity intact while hopefully being accepted somewhere. YMMV!!!

 

[r2med]

Yup. Only apply to schools that treat applicants well.

I plan on employing a modified form of this myself next cycle. I'm not so much hung up on whether or not I receive constant communication, since I can read between the lines and figure out what not hearing from a school means when literally scores of folks on SDN are reporting IIs.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm up for waiting for a post every Monday to see whether I am one of a handful of people across the country to receive an II as invitations are dribbled out in small handfuls over months. Also not sure I'm prepared to kiss a** with weekly letters professing my undying devotion to a school located at the North Pole that accepts like two people per year when there are several other schools similarly ranked, less needy, a little easier to get into and located in significantly less miserable locations that I am equally capable of being rejected by.

At the end of the day, nobody gets treated like s**t unless they allow it. Everyone has to decide for themselves just how much they are willing to tolerate. Being ghosted is not the end of the world for me, so that's fine, but there are certain abusive practices that I just don't feel I need to subject myself to. Maybe I'll be shooting myself in the foot, but, given the odds, the chances are extremely high that I will never be accepted by most of these schools anyway, so my goal will be to exit the process with a tiny shred of my dignity intact while hopefully being accepted somewhere. YMMV!!!

Good luck to you. How are your stats?

 

[r2med]

Many schools will never send a formal rejection letter. I advise all students over and over that from the moment your submit AMCAS consider yourself rejected and start enhancing your application for another cycle. Whether schools tell your not, 60% of applicants will not get an acceptance

Understand the concept but people are asking for a courtesy email, I guess. Just like one would from a doctor, or even in politics 😂

 

[KnightDoc]

Good luck to you. How are your stats?

Funny you ask, because in many ways I think I am exactly like you, and am expecting a similar cycle next year.

Edit: my WARS is not nearly as high, but I can't know whether that's because I'm more realistic than you or you are just waaay better than me!

I don't like LM, but mine is similar.

 

[spottedcory]

I advise all students over and over that from the moment your submit AMCAS consider yourself rejected and start enhancing your application for another cycle. Whether schools tell your not, 60% of applicants will not get an acceptance

Yes but I think this is a separate thing from this discussion. Even with acceptances I'd really appreciate a response from schools I submitted to, and still feel it's a professional courtesy. I also feel like this line in this discussion makes it so that you need an acceptance to be discontent with the details of this process, when probably everyone applying would appreciate not being ghosted. But in the end I agree with KnightDoc, it's not the end of the world if I'm ghosted and it doesn't affect my plans much so it's just a small point.

 

[r2med]

Funny you ask, because in many ways I think I am exactly like you, and am expecting a similar cycle next year.

Edit: my WARS is not nearly as high, but I can't know whether that's because I'm more realistic than you or you are just waaay better than me!

I don't like LM, but mine is similar.

In the interest of not hijacking this thread, will just leave it as all these scores mean nothing much when it comes to admissions. We are at adcom's mercy for the most part. Anyways, good luck @KnightDoc and to all those waiting on acceptances. To me, till you see a reject on your email (or it is past the final final date of matriculation), you are still in the race.

 

[r2med]

In the interest of not hijacking this thread, will just leave it as all these scores mean nothing much when it comes to admissions. We are at adcom's mercy for the most part. Anyways, good luck @KnightDoc and to all those waiting on acceptances. To me, till you see a reject on your email (or it is past the final final date of matriculation), you are still in the race.

Please don't misinterpret the last sentence as giving false hope. If you have not prepared for your gap year or other Plan B by now, please do so and hope it is not too late. Good luck.

 

[selmalabama]

It was quite interesting to read this thread. I do not understand the benefit of constantly posting iterations of “schools are not required to notify you of rejection” and “by default you are unaccepted.”

We get that. Just because a policy is the way it is, does not mean it is how it SHOULD be. I think it is fair to hope for, even demand, change in this regard (as we should for other predatory aspects of both the application and training process).