I know that @Goro didn't write it. I said that they pointed it out. Reposting an opinion someone else wrote and calling it "cogent commentary" would qualify as pointing it out, wouldn't you agree?
Well, that doesn’t justify the discrimination. Everyone knows that they still achieve that much in spite of the discrimination. Put yourself in their shoes, you will understand better.
AA is not going to stop the racism, if there is any. If anyone experiences racism, they should report it to the police and authorities and take care of it. That’s the way to stop it. Tinkering with college admissions is not the solution. If the AC is broken in our house, we have to fix it, not the roof or the plumbing.
"report it to the police and authorities and take care of it" Not even talking about the relationship that black people have with the police system in this country, but do you really believe you can go to the police to report racism?
Even if he wrote his struggles in the essays, he will still be compared with fellow Asian American applicants only.
i’m sorry the last part took me out. Absolutely agree with your sentiment.
Then we have to fix the police. How college admission is related to it or fix it? I just couldn’t understand the link.
You are moving the goalposts. And you brought the police up, not me.
Report it to the police? Lol. Next time I get accused of cheating because I’m the only minority in a class and got the highest grade on a test, I’m for sure going to call the police. Hahaha I wonder if they’ll arrest my professor… I hope so.
No. I am not moving the goalpost but offering a practical solution to fix the racism. What I am trying to say is that college admissions is not the place or the way or the time to fix the racism. Racism is not allowed in America, it is illegal. If it happens, you take care of it then and there. If you got mugged or someone broke into your house, what you do? Same thing. Don’t wait till the college admissions. It is like attempting to fix the roof to repair the AC.
Do you think AA in college admissions going to stop it then?
Do you know what the first amendment to the United States Constitution says?
I mean that doesn't answer my question of why? Blacks have, and I'd argue continue to face discrimination, yet outside the HBCU, they've never been overrepresented in higher education. They're rejected at higher levels in medical school and are far outnumbered by another group (Asians) you say faces discrimination. Why do you think that is so?
The same police that are killing minorities? Have you ever heard of police brutality? Honestly, I feel like you haven’t watched the news in the past decade or you are just purposely being obtuse.
Honestly, every level of education up to graduate school doesn't educate on race. Many perceptions come from our everyday interactions and conversations, not hard-core scientific-based discourse, or even a class. That's the real shame. And many state legislatures and school boards have gone further to prohibit "critical race theory" from even being taught.
Those are unfortunate stray incidents and the police officers have been punished. To stop those kinds of incidents from happening again, we have to train the police better and increase the punishment. College Admissions have got nothing to do with police brutality. They are unrelated. College admissions is not going to fix the racism, if there is any . I stop it here.
I concede you won.
I never brought up the police, I was pointing out a flaw in your argument.
Poverty + culture. Asians have lower rates of poverty an extremely strong internal culture of academia, and you’re seen as a disappointment if you can’t become a doctor lawyer engineer of businessperson by many in the community. It’s why third generation college rates for Asians are lower than second generation. The cultural stigma decreases.
With all due respect, stating your concern for anti-Asian resentment is very strange to me. What about the Anti-Black sentiment that spurred these lawsuits in the first place? I actually fear for our AA friends, who have endured so much. The other side is emboldened and that to me is dangerous. Also, if you know anything of the history of this country, AA have handled terrorism, denial of human and civil rights with a grace like no other, even as they fought for their freedom and for their progeny to have a better future. I cannot even imagine that type of reaction you allude to. This is the same country that paid back the peaceful civil rights movement with the assassination of its leader. Instead of embracing a multi-racial future where all have equal opportunity and access, we have turned back the clock and attempted to erase the efforts of brave AAs who gave their lives to create the same pathway that Asian Americans seek to walk on. It's stunning. Asian Americans (some, not all) who alied themselves with a racist leader who has worked for decades to rid of Affirmative action now are the ones we need to watch out for?
How can you call the police on the federal government?? Institutional racism is very much a thing.
Another classic example is Leila Jackson (daughter of justice Ketanji Brown Jackson) who is in Harvard now and plans to become a physician.
It’s crazy how we learn this exact thing for the mcat in the p/s section, but they still choose to ignore it.
Where's your complaint for the many White legacy students? You literally picked one bi-racial (Black/White) woman out of how many White legacy students that are attending this fall? She represents the very small Black % at Harvard anyway.Another classic example is Leila Jackson (daughter of justice Ketanji Brown Jackson) who is in Harvard now and plans to become a physician.
All the bonus points/ advantages in life given to Justice KBJ’s daughter for her race/ legacy/ physician parent/ wealthy background and privilege is somehow justifiable by the same group that obliviously calls out Justice Kavanaugh’s legacy background … especially when you look at Leila Jackson’s answers below in Teen vogue interview…not sure if an Asian American ( even if he/she is a privileged child of physician parents) can pull this miracle off! But hey, who is counting!!
Vogue:Tell me about your plans after high school. Do you know what you want to study in college?
Leila Jackson: I’m going to Harvard for college next year. I’m not sure what I want to study yet. I’m really interested in English. I love reading and literature. But also, I’m really interested in medicine. I think the concept of biology and medicine is fascinating, so I think I’m just going to kind of explore and figure it out. Either of those fields I would be really passionate to go into.
Vogue: What draws you to medicine or literature? What is it about those things that relate to who you are and what you’re interested in?
Leila Jackson: For medicine, I wasn’t really that interested in it until high school. You know, my dad’s a doctor and I’ve kind of been able to see and hear about his work.… I talk to my dad and ask him why he likes working in medicine, and he says it’s just because he loves to help people. I feel the same way. I think I really would love to help people.
What It’s Like to Be the Daughter of a Supreme Court Nominee
We spoke to 17-year-old Leila Jackson.www.teenvogue.com
I have worked for federal government for many many years. I am a minority too. It is not how you think. No one can get away with any racism, they will lose their job . Actually it is the other way. I can give a lot more information, but you and the moderators won’t like it. So I will refrain from it. Again, if there is an institutional racism, police racism or any racism, we have to take it to the authorities , congressmen, senators , courts and fix it. College admissions is not the place to fix it . They are unrelated and it won’t fix any racism if there is any.
You seem to agree ( atleast that’s what I infer from your post) that KBJ daughter getting into Harvard and planning to become a physician because her dad is a physician is not a good look…
Yes, I'm anti-legacy if that's the sole/primary reason for admittance. But what was the purpose of comparing KBJ's daughter to an Asian American applicant? I'm sure there are Asian American legacy students. You just see KBJ's daughter's story in a news article because... she's KBJ's (the first Black woman Supreme Court Justice) daughter. My issue is with the comparisons. They're being unnecessarily made between URM and ORM applicants. When both are taking Ls with AA being overturned.
Race won't be completely out of the discussion in med school admissions as it can still be used indirectly, but this is definitely a step in the right direction. Hopefully the AMCAs application and med school secondaries in future application cycles will reflect this not ask for the applicant's race.
How has that worked out as far as the number of African Americans in medicine? Apparently AA are quite privileged according the the picture you paint. The paranoia is astounding.
US medical education and the US medical system would collapse as we know it.
Affirmative action is a restorative measure, acknowledging the compensation, opportunities, denied to African-Americans since the time of slavery, in lieu of actual reparations. It also now benefits other underrepresented `racial groups and women as well (White Women are the biggest benefactors of Affirmative Action, fyi). It is actually designed to fight systemic racism.
But if the people who are overwhelmingly benefitting from it were never historically denied opportunities in this country (i.e. children of recent privileged immigrants), then affirmative action is not serving as a restorative measure. That was actually a major criticism of the Bakke decision in the 1970s, which outlawed affirmative action for restorative purposes and made affirmative action only lawful for diversity's sake. I actually think if affirmative action were only limited to descendants of enslaved people, it would garner a lot more support. I myself know I would definitely support it if it were like that.
Of course, I know it. I forgot to add /s
Can you elaborate on why you think that is?
Academic standards would plummet. We would literally be having doctors that could score bare minimum passing on these exams/classes and still be going to Harvard for dermatology residency. It would be insane and admission processes would become even more of a crap-shoot and based more on who you know and your connections.
A more sustainable and effective response to solving inequalities between racial populations would be to invest in primary school education and after school programs among our poorest, least-educated communities. By the time you get around to higher education like medical school, it's quite frankly too late.
There are other marginalized ethnic groups too (e.g., Native American and LatinX communities) who should also be considered. It doesn’t seem like you’re grasping the severe damage that this country’s past actions have done to all of these communities. The damage didn’t just happen during slavery of ADOS. Damages have been caused all throughout reconstruction, Jim Crow, redlining, the CRM, the drug war, mass incarceration, and heavy policing in minority communities. This is a country that supposedly grants equal opportunity, and AA was meant to do just that. Black Americans and other minorities sacrificed their lives (MLK and Medgar Evers to name two of many), for all minorities to have these opportunities. And instead of receiving gratitude, our peoples’ intelligence and competence are always doubted. It’s a sad sight to see. Truly
I personally don't think it's ever "too late" to help someone reinvent themselves academically, but I do agree that starting to correct disparities at age 18 (or even older in medical school admissions) is anything but ideal.
Those issues overwhelmingly affect generational African Americans though. Generational African Americans' ancestors historically went to segregated schools, were locked out of owning property, and couldn't own businesses in many areas. We can't say the same for wealthy immigrants who have recently come to this country.
I think this is missing the big picture. Those who were denied opportunities, who you’re referring to, are blacks. Even if the richest blacks become doctors via AA, it’s a good thing for the overall black population because then they have people (African Americans) who look like them that they can garner inspiration from and say, “you know what, I want to become a doctor.” Of course that’s not the only way for a black child to have dreams of becoming a doctor (or another white-collar career), they can also get that inspiration from a white one, but chances of inspiration are greater with black doctors. And yes, wealthier URMs are overwhelmingly benefiting from AA, but of course overwhelmingly because AA is recent. Instead of completely throwing AA away, maybe they should’ve just altered it so wealthy URMs aren’t taking advantage of it. That I agree with.
Hmm well when I see Black/LatinX people (people who look like me) get brutally murdered by police, it hurts not just me but my entire community. It’s an unfortunate shared experience that traumatizes us all every time it happens. Shared experiences are very much real. We share slang, culture, and history. We and other minority communities (LGBTQIA, racial and religious minorities, etc.) navigate this society similarly because of it. We are all unique in our own way but our experiences navigating an environment that ‘pedastalizes’ whiteness, wealth, Christianity, patriarchy, and heteronormativity (list goes on) will be greatly similar.
