Texas programs?

[juc9355]

hey all! As I'm trying to make up my final rank list, wondering if anyone has any insight on some of the Texas programs? Specifically interested in possibly ending up in Houston (so Baylor COM or UT Houston) but I didn't have the chance to rotate at either. I liked the interview days but everything starts to blend together after a while, and it's hard to get a real sense of what the programs are like (especially Baylor, with no resident dinner, etc). Also if anyone has any idea of what the reputation of these places are outside of Texas id appreciate it! Best of luck everyone.

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[dermie1985]

I didn't interview at either, but from a general sense on the interview trail and elsewhere.... I've heard the UT-Houston >> Baylor from a reputation standpoint. Major difference is probably program size (3-4 residents/year at Baylor vs. 6 residents at UT-Houston). I met a few internal Baylor applicants on trail who mentioned the program director at Baylor is very fixated on mock boards scores, and that they only interview applicants >250-255 Step 1. That was (personally) a major turn-off for me as I think programs should value much more than high board scores in the admissions process.

 

[juc9355]

Good to know, thanks! From what I remember, UT Houston residents seem to work a lot harder and overall seemed less happy. Baylor residents all seemed really happy and i think get a lot of time off. However I don't know if that means seeing less patients = less educational... and research seemed a lot less of a focus at Baylor too. Any other insights would be appreciated especially from anyone with experience with these programs!

 

[dermie1985]

Good to know, thanks! From what I remember, UT Houston residents seem to work a lot harder and overall seemed less happy. Baylor residents all seemed really happy and i think get a lot of time off. However I don't know if that means seeing less patients = less educational... and research seemed a lot less of a focus at Baylor too. Any other insights would be appreciated especially from anyone with experience with these programs!

I know less about these programs. But, in general volume and clinical variety seem to be the most important in terms of training quality. You need to see a lot of patients, but balanced with variety. Every sort of hospital and/or outpatient setting (VA, children's hospital, public hospital, community hospital, cosmetic clinic, public hospital, etc.) is going to have a unique pathology set based on patient demographics/population and it'll be important to rotate through all of them. While I think it's OK to pick an easy TY/prelim year, I wouldn't necessarily go into the same mentality for picking your derm residency (very cush, lots of time off, those things actually might be red flags). I think this applies to derm maybe even moreso than other fields. You'll possibly end up in private practice working independently after residency, and that will be the only training you'll have to rely on when you're suddenly seeing patients on your own.... without colleagues and other attendings who will be easily accessible to help you out.

In terms of academics/reputation. I don't think it matters. I honestly want to go into academics in the future, but because so few people want to do this in dermatology, your options for this are pretty much limitless no matter where you train. In terms of research...getting involved in research is going to be large self-motivated during residency. I'd just look for good mentorship opportunities (and people who actually publish and know what they're doing). These might exist at both places.

Though, this explanation might be different if you say...want to basic science research. Then you'd have to look for 2+2 programs, good basic science teams/funding, which will differ drastically between departments. Though, I honestly few very few people in derm are seriously looking to go this route.

 

[phislammjamma]

For what it's worth, I am under the impression that Baylor residents see a lot of patients at a quick pace, especially at the county hospital clinic. Dr. Hsu cares more about making the diagnosis and starting the next step in management than spending lots of time discussing long differentials. I think the patient volume there would be just fine. Residents have a lot of autonomy. There is a strong emphasis on board scores for sure... if you believe that the board tests things that are actually relevant, than I don't think this is necessarily such a bad thing.

 

[exeunt]

i have also heard that UT houston residents are unhappy and that there is not much faculty support.. does anyone know if this is true or has changed since the past? how strong is UT houston considered overall?

 

[juc9355]

I got the same impression.. That UT Houston residents seemed unhappy, and have heard they are overworked. Baylors on the other hand all seemed very happy. But with less specialty clinics (in fact, no specialty clinics were mentioned) , less research, and so on, at Baylor I'm not sure what to make of it overall! I am definitely not interested in basic science research but strongly considering (at least at this point) a fellowship so I think some research opportunities would be helpful. And of course interested in landing a good job even if I don't pursue a fellowship. It'd be nice to know how strong these programs are considered overall too, it's hard to just go on rankings alone..

 

[MilkIsGood]

thinking about away programs for texas. im from texas, but go to med school out of state. suggestions of good texas programs to do rotation at?

 

[charmiedermie]

hey all! As I'm trying to make up my final rank list, wondering if anyone has any insight on some of the Texas programs? Specifically interested in possibly ending up in Houston (so Baylor COM or UT Houston) but I didn't have the chance to rotate at either. I liked the interview days but everything starts to blend together after a while, and it's hard to get a real sense of what the programs are like (especially Baylor, with no resident dinner, etc). Also if anyone has any idea of what the reputation of these places are outside of Texas id appreciate it! Best of luck everyone.

On a search I saw this: forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/ut-houston.699063/

Don't know how much has changed.

 

[int3rwebz]

I know a good amount about the UT Houston program and will comment with my thoughts.

I am not sure where people keep getting the "residents are unhappy" vibe. I spent about 3 months doing rotations there and am still trying to think which unhappy residents people keep bringing up. There are some residents that may feel they deserved (because many derm applicants think the world of themselves) to match at a different school and are unhappy that they ended up at UT Houston, but it's a silly assertion to make. If you wanted to match elsewhere "more competitive", then you should have done better on step/done more research/better letters/etc etc..

Overworked is a very funny phrase to use here, as they get out around 4:00-4:30 from the county clinic, 5-6pm from the Houston derm clinic. The only place I can think people feel "overworked" is Dr. Duvic's clinic where days usually end at 7-8pm. However, that clinic happens only twice a week and it's for 2 months for PGY2 and PGY3. The flip side to this is getting to learn from one of the best clinicians and researchers out there. Her clinic runs 2-3 hours behind, but her patients rarely complain because they know who they are about to see. She also makes you write detailed notes and do an actual physical exam (skin surface area etc) because, well, these patients are complicated and it needs to be done. In return, you get to see things in that clinic that most people will only read about. I can go on and on about this, but the end idea is that you learn to become a competent clinician while working with a physician that pretty much every dermatologist knows in the US (she was brought up in almost every single one of my derm interviews this year without me mentioning her).

MD Anderson is an invaluable experience and not just an association that UT Houston uses for its rankings. Residents spend a significant amount of time there doing general derm clinics and the attendings there are quite young and love to teach. There is no VA at UT Houston, Baylor has it. I did a few aways at programs that have VAs and honestly would take MD Anderson over a VA anyday. I think a VA is important to have when a program lacks a county clinic, but that's not a problem at Houston since QM is very busy county clinic.

Many of the residents that go here that went to UT Houston for medical school are extremely competitive (high step scores, 10+ derm interviews, AOA etc), but many end up staying because they legitimately love the program. From what I have heard, the interview day is not super well designed and that's unfortunate. On my interview trail, everything blended together so much that at some point anything that seemed negative to me quickly brought the program down on my list, and I assume that's why some are turned off.

 

[juc9355]

thanks guys! does anyone have any more insight into the baylor program?? residents seemed very happy to me but i didn't get the greatest sense of the program from their interview day. i interviewed at some larger/possibly more academic programs outside the area but i do have a geographical preference for houston, so any insight would be appreciated

 

[exeunt]

I know a good amount about the UT Houston program and will comment with my thoughts.

I am not sure where people keep getting the "residents are unhappy" vibe. I spent about 3 months doing rotations there and am still trying to think which unhappy residents people keep bringing up. There are some residents that may feel they deserved (because many derm applicants think the world of themselves) to match at a different school and are unhappy that they ended up at UT Houston, but it's a silly assertion to make. If you wanted to match elsewhere "more competitive", then you should have done better on step/done more research/better letters/etc etc..

Overworked is a very funny phrase to use here, as they get out around 4:00-4:30 from the county clinic, 5-6pm from the Houston derm clinic. The only place I can think people feel "overworked" is Dr. Duvic's clinic where days usually end at 7-8pm. However, that clinic happens only twice a week and it's for 2 months for PGY2 and PGY3. The flip side to this is getting to learn from one of the best clinicians and researchers out there. Her clinic runs 2-3 hours behind, but her patients rarely complain because they know who they are about to see. She also makes you write detailed notes and do an actual physical exam (skin surface area etc) because, well, these patients are complicated and it needs to be done. In return, you get to see things in that clinic that most people will only read about. I can go on and on about this, but the end idea is that you learn to become a competent clinician while working with a physician that pretty much every dermatologist knows in the US (she was brought up in almost every single one of my derm interviews this year without me mentioning her).

MD Anderson is an invaluable experience and not just an association that UT Houston uses for its rankings. Residents spend a significant amount of time there doing general derm clinics and the attendings there are quite young and love to teach. There is no VA at UT Houston, Baylor has it. I did a few aways at programs that have VAs and honestly would take MD Anderson over a VA anyday. I think a VA is important to have when a program lacks a county clinic, but that's not a problem at Houston since QM is very busy county clinic.

Many of the residents that go here that went to UT Houston for medical school are extremely competitive (high step scores, 10+ derm interviews, AOA etc), but many end up staying because they legitimately love the program. From what I have heard, the interview day is not super well designed and that's unfortunate. On my interview trail, everything blended together so much that at some point anything that seemed negative to me quickly brought the program down on my list, and I assume that's why some are turned off.

appreciate the commentary.

are the famous faculty good mentors? i think that is most important. if they're famous but don't go to bat for you in terms of jobs, fellowships etc. then i don't think that is as valuable. if you have bigwigs that are also good mentors, then that's of course the optimal combination, but otherwise i think the support you get from faculty is more crucial to your career. also, if CTCL and melanoma are not my particular clinical interests, i'm not sure that MD Anderson trumps having a VA, where you tend to have a lot more autonomy as well as procedural exposure. if you want to do academic CTCL then MD Anderson is great, but i don't think that applies to everyone.

 

[charmiedermie]

I know a good amount about the UT Houston program and will comment with my thoughts.

I am not sure where people keep getting the "residents are unhappy" vibe. I spent about 3 months doing rotations there and am still trying to think which unhappy residents people keep bringing up. There are some residents that may feel they deserved (because many derm applicants think the world of themselves) to match at a different school and are unhappy that they ended up at UT Houston, but it's a silly assertion to make. If you wanted to match elsewhere "more competitive", then you should have done better on step/done more research/better letters/etc etc..

Overworked is a very funny phrase to use here, as they get out around 4:00-4:30 from the county clinic, 5-6pm from the Houston derm clinic. The only place I can think people feel "overworked" is Dr. Duvic's clinic where days usually end at 7-8pm. However, that clinic happens only twice a week and it's for 2 months for PGY2 and PGY3. The flip side to this is getting to learn from one of the best clinicians and researchers out there. Her clinic runs 2-3 hours behind, but her patients rarely complain because they know who they are about to see. She also makes you write detailed notes and do an actual physical exam (skin surface area etc) because, well, these patients are complicated and it needs to be done. In return, you get to see things in that clinic that most people will only read about. I can go on and on about this, but the end idea is that you learn to become a competent clinician while working with a physician that pretty much every dermatologist knows in the US (she was brought up in almost every single one of my derm interviews this year without me mentioning her).

MD Anderson is an invaluable experience and not just an association that UT Houston uses for its rankings. Residents spend a significant amount of time there doing general derm clinics and the attendings there are quite young and love to teach. There is no VA at UT Houston, Baylor has it. I did a few aways at programs that have VAs and honestly would take MD Anderson over a VA anyday. I think a VA is important to have when a program lacks a county clinic, but that's not a problem at Houston since QM is very busy county clinic.

Many of the residents that go here that went to UT Houston for medical school are extremely competitive (high step scores, 10+ derm interviews, AOA etc), but many end up staying because they legitimately love the program. From what I have heard, the interview day is not super well designed and that's unfortunate. On my interview trail, everything blended together so much that at some point anything that seemed negative to me quickly brought the program down on my list, and I assume that's why some are turned off.

Isn't Dr. Duvic's niche in CTCL? How prevalent is that in the grand scheme of things? I'm sure her patients love her, but what do the Derm residents think of her?Does Baylor have someone similar?

 

[int3rwebz]

appreciate the commentary.

are the famous faculty good mentors? i think that is most important. if they're famous but don't go to bat for you in terms of jobs, fellowships etc. then i don't think that is as valuable. if you have bigwigs that are also good mentors, then that's of course the optimal combination, but otherwise i think the support you get from faculty is more crucial to your career. also, if CTCL and melanoma are not my particular clinical interests, i'm not sure that MD Anderson trumps having a VA, where you tend to have a lot more autonomy as well as procedural exposure. if you want to do academic CTCL then MD Anderson is great, but i don't think that applies to everyone.

Of all the faculty I have worked with in med school, I'd say she went out most out of her way for me, which says a lot about her character. So yes, if you work hard and it shows, she will do all she can to help you with it.

MD Anderson patients aren't all CTCL or melanoma actually. In the regular clinics there, you see the general derm stuff there. Melanoma diagnosis and stuff is done by derm via regular skin checks, but the excision and follow up of the deep stuff is done by surg onc at MD Anderson who are literally down the hallway from derm.

 

[int3rwebz]

Isn't Dr. Duvic's niche in CTCL? How prevalent is that in the grand scheme of things? I'm sure her patients love her, but what do the Derm residents think of her?Does Baylor have someone similar?

It is her niche, and about half of her clinic is filled with these patients, maybe slightly more. The rest of the clinic is random, including alopecia, EB, melanoma skin checks, weird drug reactions, and stuff that other derm people send her because they aren't sure what it is/how to manage whatever it is. In general, there's plenty of "normal" stuff at MD Anderson, it's just the extras that make it quite cool.

In terms of Baylor, I am not sure who they have that's similar or what the set up is there, I didn't apply to that program. Good luck!

 

[charmiedermie]

It is her niche, and about half of her clinic is filled with these patients, maybe slightly more. The rest of the clinic is random, including alopecia, EB, melanoma skin checks, weird drug reactions, and stuff that other derm people send her because they aren't sure what it is/how to manage whatever it is. In general, there's plenty of "normal" stuff at MD Anderson, it's just the extras that make it quite cool.

In terms of Baylor, I am not sure who they have that's similar or what the set up is there, I didn't apply to that program. Good luck!

Ok, thanks! I was searching thru prior derm threads that talk about Baylor vs. UT-Houston, with derm residents being unhappy, so I was just curious why this is. It seemed to be bc of the faculty. Someone correctvme but I think all didactic lectures are shared.

Let me qualify..
.
1) Yes, most of the residents are not happy. In fact, most would transfer out if they could. .
2) Several of the attending are great clinicians but incompetent at running clinics efficiently. Some make for horrible clinics such as Dr Duvic. .
3) All of the attendings are nice outside of clinic. This has no bearing on residents who have most of the interaction within clinic..
4) Yes, they lost Dr Nguyen and he was a great teacher. .
5) Word has it that the Mohs team has improved with new additions allowing more real resident training and going beyond simple student retraction. Ask the current residents for feedback on the current Mohs. I have only heard GOOD things..
6) World class faculty. Oblivious to resident dissatisfaction. I have never liked academics, but I think it is a testament to the program that they have not produced an academic person in the past 10 years. .
7) They have lots of basic science research in the derm program. However, the program does not encourage or even discuss these laboratories. Most residents are unaware of them as the program does not keep the residents in the loop. Again, if you are going into private practice, this is a non-issue. You can always do some of the more shady research as seen in many of Dr Duvic’s papers. .
8) No one has to do research. I made it 3 years without a publication and no one said a word to me about having to publish…so again, why does the research really matter. .
9) Don’t take my word for it. Look for fine differences between this program and others. Do residents get their own office space(no), business cards(no), parking(no), elective time comparable to other programs(no), actually treated like MDs(no) or more like MAs(yes)? But also take into consideration the exemplary training provided. I never felt the need to take an elective as I knew I was going to private practice, but some residents felt otherwise. .
10) The program has poor “cosmetic” training. .
11) The program has poor outdated “peds” training. .
12) You get GREAT path training. It is especially nice as a 3rd year when you are solidifying everything. .
13) When you interview, ask if/when the person running a specialty clinic was certified. Many are grandfathered in and thus very outdated in practice/skills. .
14) Some will say this is still derm and still much better then surgery. So bear in mind, all of the comments above are comparing to other derm residencies and not to other specialties. . .
15) Rank every program. No matter how "relatively" bad it sounds.

***Parking is really expensive for such a small city