**The Official Guide to Special Masters Programs**

[kpatel4]

Louisiana Resident
cGPA: 3.3
sGPA: 3.2
MCAT: 2 years ago was 22
Graduate class of 2007 from public university

My greatest strength would be my extracurricular activies and clinical experience. Work for multispecialty clinic with thousands of hours of patient contact, volunteer for multiple organizations, and recently started clinical research. I also have 3 LOR from science professors and several strong LOR from physicians and supervisor from clinic.
What SMP/graduate programs should I apply to that would give me the greatest chance to pursue my dreams of getting into medical school? Any advice would help. Thanks in advance.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted248403]

Louisiana Resident
cGPA: 3.3
sGPA: 3.2
MCAT: 2 years ago was 22
Graduate class of 2007 from public university

My greatest strength would be my extracurricular activies and clinical experience. Work for multispecialty clinic with thousands of hours of patient contact, volunteer for multiple organizations, and recently started clinical research. I also have 3 LOR from science professors and several strong LOR from physicians and supervisor from clinic.
What SMP/graduate programs should I apply to that would give me the greatest chance to pursue my dreams of getting into medical school? Any advice would help. Thanks in advance.

You seriously need to stop posting the exact same post, time after time. If nothing has changed in your app. Guess what, nothing will change with the advice.

To those interested here is one of these threads on the same topic, http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=892564 , or just look at recent posts and ull see its essentially the same repeating message

 

[kpatel4]

You seriously need to stop posting the exact same post, time after time. If nothing has changed in your app. Guess what, nothing will change with the advice.

To those interested here is one of these threads on the same topic, http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=892564 , or just look at recent posts and ull see its essentially the same repeating message

Thanks for the encouraging words. Just looking at what particular smp's I should apply to. Or do I have no chance with my mcat. No real advice has really been given other than MCAT. I'm asking about schools with the previous mcat taken.

 

[whynotzoidberg]

First post here.... I was wondering If you guys could help me out

I'm looking for some advice on whether a SMP is right for me. I just finished my junior year at an Ivy-league university with an overall GPA of 3.456 and a math/science GPA of 3.425. I have worked in a biochem/microbio lab the past year and a half and plan on working all of next year writing an honors thesis and getting published

I expect to graduate magna cum laude with at least a 3.5 GPA (significant upward trend) majoring in biology, concentrating on neurobiology and behavior. I'm presently studying for the GREs and I'm sure I will at least do average. I have not taken, nor have I studied for the MCATs. I am taking physics during my senior year. I have good leadership, TA experience, and good LORs. My volunteer experience is minimal, and I lack experience working in a hospital setting. I know that I'll be able to nail any application essays, so I'm not really concerned about that, either.

As you may have guessed from the above, I had entered college thinking I would go the PhD route. After the time I've putin the aforementioned lab, along with a multitude of personal reasons (no need for detail here) I think I would be happier pursuing an MD compared to a PhD. I'm particularly interested in the field of Psychiatry.

Obviously I cannot apply for med school this upcoming cycle (haven't taken the mcats, it's too late, etc) Do you think an SMP would be right for me? It would give me a chance to experience the med school atmosphere without committing me to the path. It would also provide me with a chance to do some volunteer work and/or attain clinical experience. Any and all advice is appreciated
.

Thanks!

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks for the encouraging words. Just looking at what particular smp's I should apply to. Or do I have no chance with my mcat. No real advice has really been given other than MCAT. I'm asking about schools with the previous mcat taken.

You can always find a program that's willing to take your money. That doesn't mean the program will do anything to help your chances at med school.

I looked at your post history. It looks like you studied for the MCAT before you took it, and were expecting to get a 30+ instead of a 22.

This is a major red flag. You should consider whether med school is what you want, given that med school is nothing but endless exams that are considerably more difficult than the MCAT.

In a good SMP, you are doing the first year of med school to prove you can handle med school. That means one extremely difficult exam after the other for a full year.

The MCAT pwned you. When you can pwn the MCAT, then an SMP is a reasonable thing to consider.

You can also look at the masters programs at DO schools. MCAT expectations are lower at such programs.

Best of luck to you.

 

[deleted248403]

You can also look at the masters programs at DO schools. MCAT expectations are lower at such programs.

A 22 is even low for DO schools - a low GPA and a super-low MCAT most likely means a trip to the Carib.

MCAT has to go up to stand a chance in the US.

I would also be terrified to go abroad if I were this poster because as u said a 22 doesnt suggest one can handle med school classes. and the carib is happy to accept u and take your $40k and let u fail out

 

[deleted248403]

Do you think an SMP would be right for me?

No - get good grades (3.6+) your final year and ur GPAs should be competitive, start shadowing and volunteering now, take the MCAT in the spring/early summer of 2013, and apply during the next cycle.

You will have a gap year so use it to work/continue to improve your app/add meaningful experiences

 

[kpatel4]

You can always find a program that's willing to take your money. That doesn't mean the program will do anything to help your chances at med school.

I looked at your post history. It looks like you studied for the MCAT before you took it, and were expecting to get a 30+ instead of a 22.

This is a major red flag. You should consider whether med school is what you want, given that med school is nothing but endless exams that are considerably more difficult than the MCAT.

In a good SMP, you are doing the first year of med school to prove you can handle med school. That means one extremely difficult exam after the other for a full year.

The MCAT pwned you. When you can pwn the MCAT, then an SMP is a reasonable thing to consider.

You can also look at the masters programs at DO schools. MCAT expectations are lower at such programs.

Best of luck to you.

What specific SMP would you suggest that would even consider my score, GPA, and whole body of work? Thanks in advance.

 

[DrMidlife]

A 22 is even low for DO schools - a low GPA and a super-low MCAT most likely means a trip to the Carib.

The masters programs at DO schools would take that MCAT.

What specific SMP would you suggest that would even consider my score, GPA, and whole body of work? Thanks in advance.

Why even ask more questions? You're clearly not interested in the answers you're getting.

 

[deleted248403]

The masters programs at DO schools would take that MCAT.

Even if they did - one still isnt getting into a med school with that; so it satisfies the short-term goal while continuing to fail the long term goal. If one can't get the MCAT up, they should save the $40k on an SMP

 

[DrMidlife]

Even if they did - one still isnt getting into a med school with that; so it satisfies the short-term goal while continuing to fail the long term goal. If one can't get the MCAT up, they should save the $40k on an SMP

No, really, this type of program has been discussed here for a long time. 1 year postbacs and 2 year masters programs at DO schools are a legitimate way into DO schools, with very low or no MCAT score going in, and an expectation of about a 24 coming out. Some of these are very clearly audition programs. Look down the thread list here - there are about 6 DO school programs in the first ~50 posts. I've seen at least a dozen. They are not as expensive as Gtown/EVMS/Cincinnati/etc. A couple years ago I got schooled on this by jilin.

I'm not at all in favor of taking a 22 MCAT into a med school prep program of any kind, but the evidence remains (in posts in this forum) that DO postbac/grad program grads get into DO school if they can handle the work. It's a totally different category from the Barry and Mississippi College sure-you'll-get-into-med-school-why-would-we-lie-to-you-where-is-your-checkbook programs. It's considerably less stupid than going to the Caribbean, for somebody who's absolutely hellbent to do med school and not at all hellbent to address a 22.

 

[kharris7873]

I am a chronic lurker on this site and have finally decided to come out of the shadows .__. Why did I not find SDN as an undergrad?!!

I've been trying to figure out if I should apply to med school this cycle and do Drexel IMS at the same time. I've talked to their admissions advisors and have a list of schools to consider, but it's hard not to listen to all the chatter about when to apply with SMPs.

I think I've pretty much decided to apply (just in the nick of time...), but have the urge to post and become part of the conversation. um, here's my stats: 31P 9V,10P,12B 3.4c/s

 

[DeucesHigh3]

I am a chronic lurker on this site and have finally decided to come out of the shadows .__. Why did I not find SDN as an undergrad?!!

I've been trying to figure out if I should apply to med school this cycle and do Drexel IMS at the same time. I've talked to their admissions advisors and have a list of schools to consider, but it's hard not to listen to all the chatter about when to apply with SMPs.

I think I've pretty much decided to apply (just in the nick of time...), but have the urge to post and become part of the conversation. um, here's my stats: 31P 9V,10P,12B 3.4c/s

I would absolutely be applying now. You're borderline for not even needing an SMP (rather than just polishing up your GPA), so I would get those apps in with the expectation of updating schools when you get your first semester grades. And don't screw it up, because there's almost no coming back from a bad (less than or equal to 3.0) SMP semester. Good luck-- IMS is pretty intense, but you will certainly learn a lot.

 

[kharris7873]

"And don't screw it up", that's been ringing in my head since I decided on IMS.

Thanks for the straightforward advice.

 

[Totle]

Hello, thanks for the thread, it's super helpful.

That being said, I've found this website: http://advisingservices.ucdavis.edu...cial_masters_post_baccalaureate_programs.html

which has a list of SMPs, and after scouring the Googles, I can't seem to find any other list.

What I'm asking is, does this list contain all of the US SMP programs or are there any more... westward? I currently live in California and all of these places are a bit far since I go home frequently to help out my parents.

 

[DrMidlife]

...a list of SMPs, and after scouring the Googles, I can't seem to find any other list.

Exhausting, isn't it, to have to look at more than one thread when trying to find info. Facepalm.

What I'm asking is, does this list contain all of the US SMP programs or are there any more... westward? I currently live in California and all of these places are a bit far since I go home frequently to help out my parents.

There is no accrediting organization for SMPs, and no USNews or similar has identified this type of program as something people will pay money for in support of a ranking/listing service. Between SDN, Davis' site, the Syracuse site, and the AAMC postbac list, you can gather what you need to know. That is, if mouse clicks and reading and scrolling aren't too tiring.

Best of luck to you.

 

[TeddyBoomBoom]

Exhausting, isn't it, to have to look at more than one thread when trying to find info. Facepalm.

There is no accrediting organization for SMPs, and no USNews or similar has identified this type of program as something people will pay money for in support of a ranking/listing service. Between SDN, Davis' site, the Syracuse site, and the AAMC postbac list, you can gather what you need to know. That is, if mouse clicks and reading and scrolling aren't too tiring.

Best of luck to you.

My screen doesn't have those red arrows. Am I looking at the right forum?

 

[pvn1]

Hi guys,
Have any of you done or in the Tulane Hayward Genetics program or know someone that doing it? Could you please give me some perspectives in terms of med school acceptance rate and pre-med support.

Thank you so much!

 

[Water Top]

Exhausting, isn't it, to have to look at more than one thread when trying to find info. Facepalm.

If I got a nickel every time Dr. midlife made me laugh out loud I would not have to take out much student aid....

Thanks for keeping it simple!

 

[kaffiene88]

GRE or Mcat , I know a few SMP take either but which one should I take. As of right now I have a 3.0 GPA and am really looking to be accepted to a post bacc program in Philadelphia. Preferably PCOM or temple

 

[lilqu]

Exhausting, isn't it, to have to look at more than one thread when trying to find info. Facepalm.

There is no accrediting organization for SMPs, and no USNews or similar has identified this type of program as something people will pay money for in support of a ranking/listing service. Between SDN, Davis' site, the Syracuse site, and the AAMC postbac list, you can gather what you need to know. That is, if mouse clicks and reading and scrolling aren't too tiring.

Best of luck to you.

DrMidLife, I appreciate the hard work you put in to helping students on this forum and i commend you for that!
However almost all of your posts are condescending and sarcastic in nature - wouldn't it be better to continue being helpful with a kind-hearted attitude? no one here means harm, plenty of these students aren't stupid or inept, I believe many of them post the same questions and avoid searching threads due to the necessity of an educated answer such as yours (In my opinion ).
Don't mean to be rude I just felt bad for some of the people you were responding to!

 

[deleted248403]

DrMidLife, I appreciate the hard work you put in to helping students on this forum and i commend you for that!
However almost all of your posts are condescending and sarcastic in nature - wouldn't it be better to continue being helpful with a kind-hearted attitude? no one here means harm, plenty of these students aren't stupid or inept, I believe many of them post the same questions and avoid searching threads due to the necessity of an educated answer such as yours (In my opinion ).
Don't mean to be rude I just felt bad for some of the people you were responding to!

Most are just lazy - stick around here long enough and you'll see the same tired jaded threads which have been answered a million times.

People are just some how too lazy/stupid/inept to either use the search or look through the older pages - you pick which one is.

Its rare we get a question that is truly unique and never been answered before

 

[lilqu]

Most are just lazy - stick around here long enough and you'll see the same tired jaded threads which have been answered a million times.

People are just some how too lazy/stupid/inept to either use the search or look through the older pages - you pick which one is.

Its rare we get a question that is truly unique and never been answered before

Oh I see now ^.^ its understandable rofl

 

[JShen]

Hi All,
I recently graduated undergrad with a 3.3 GPA. I applied to a number of Post Bac programs in order to improve my GPA and have narrowed down my options to the post bac programs at Hofstra and Duquesne. Here is my dilemma:
I can only apply to med school after I have completed the post bac program and taken the MCAT. This means I will need to wait a year after doing my post bac so I can apply to medical school. Would it be better to do a post bac at Hofstra, apply to medical school, and get a year of research/clinical experience while waiting to hear back/hopefully interviewing, or do a joint post bac/Masters in Healthcare system management in Duquesne, while applying to medical school in between the two academic years of Duq's program?
Will being on route to getting a masters help my med school chances?
Thanks

 

[Big Dog]

Will being on route to getting a masters help my med school chances?

No.

 

[Innokus]

Hi All,
I recently graduated undergrad with a 3.3 GPA. I applied to a number of Post Bac programs in order to improve my GPA and have narrowed down my options to the post bac programs at Hofstra and Duquesne. Here is my dilemma:
I can only apply to med school after I have completed the post bac program and taken the MCAT. This means I will need to wait a year after doing my post bac so I can apply to medical school. Would it be better to do a post bac at Hofstra, apply to medical school, and get a year of research/clinical experience while waiting to hear back/hopefully interviewing, or do a joint post bac/Masters in Healthcare system management in Duquesne, while applying to medical school in between the two academic years of Duq's program?
Will being on route to getting a masters help my med school chances?
Thanks

Go for a post bac that will improve your undergraduate GPA or an SMP. Most masters aren't that rigorous and vary in quality. You'll want to prove you can handle tough coursework.

 

[KTownGT]

What do y'all think? SMP, Masters program, or Post-Bac? I started a victory lap(5th year) for a slight boost in my GPA and take the MCAT. Practice MCATs have been in the 32 Range.

Also, would it be worthwhile to mention that I was a Founding Father(9th guy signed) for my fraternity? I happened to be the first Risk Management Officer who also wrote the bilaws if that helps.

Stats:
Freshman Fall semester: 2.6 GPA
Freshman Spring semester: 2.8 GPA
Sophomore Fall Semester: 3.1 GPA
Sophomore Spring Semester: 3.3 GPA
Junior Fall Semester: 3.8
Junior Spring Semester: 3.4
Senior Fall: 3.0
Senior Spring: 3.45
Summer Semesters: 4.0 GPA with ~16 hours.

cGPA: 3.2 and sGPA: 3.2

Major: Cell and Molecular Biology
Minor: Chemistry

Jobs:
* Research Assistant Molecular Genetics lab -- Summer 2011-Current.
---Will be starting an individual project in the fall.

EC's:
- Brazilian Jiu Jitsu-- Fall 2009-Spring 2010; wanting to pick it up again sometime.

- SCUBA Diving: Spring 2010-Current
*100+ logged dives & Got my advanced cert.

- Fraternity
*Founding Father
*Risk Management-- Fall 2010- Summer 2011
*Scholarship Committee-- Fall 2010- Summer 2011

- Colleges Against Cancer:
*Education Executive Officer-- Fall 2010-Summer 2011
*Community Service Officer-- Fall 2010-Summer 2011
*Vice President-- Spring 2011-Fall 2012 (No time to commit to the cause. Raised some money, volunteered a few events, and got the ball rolling regarding anti-tobacco legislation).

- Student Representative for Microbiology Society-- Spring 2011-Spring 2012 (Worthless I think, but whatever)

- ~100 hours of shadowing 3 doctors--Summer 2010
*Cardiothoracic Surgeon
*Allergy & Immunologist
*Ortho

LOR's:

*1 from the head of surgery/physiology at a local medical school.
*1 from VP of research at my Uni/PI. (Known him for almost 2 years, A in a class and undergrad research for over a year).
*1 from boss and secondary PI.
*Aiming for another from professors.

Research:
*Microbial Genetics Lab-- Spring 2011-Summer 2011
-- Acknowledgement in a pub supposedly.
*Molecular Microbiology(Mycology) Lab-- Fall 2011-Spring 2012
*Molecular Genetics Lab: Spring 2011- Present

Volunteer work:
*Almost entirely through my fraternity.
-- Helped set up a major cancer charity event, and volunteered roughly 18 hours in 2 days. Our fraternity raised over 100K in the event alone.
-- 30 hours are required a semester regardless of what they are.

Awards/Recognition:
- Dean's List: Fall 2010
- Gold Award-- Fraternity award given to active members with a 3.75+.
- Garnet Award-- Fraternity award given to active members with a 3.25+

 

[Morgadeshou]

Hi, I have to make a tough MCAT decision based on smp and I was just wondering if I could get some advice from you smp masters.

I just graduated with a ug GPA of 3.13 I have pretty decent ECs, 150 patient care hours + 40 shadowing hours + 2 summers of research and a possible pub. haven't taken mcats yet

Because my grades are bad I'm highly considering taking an smp in 2013 and hoping to go to med school in 2014.

This summer I've been working on the MCATs and I really wanted to destroy them with a 33+ score, but I'm only getting 28s 29s 30s on my practice tests. My test date is september 11th, which is the last date this year.

The question is, should I postpone them until january 28th to get a better score? or settle with an average possibly below average score in order to apply to an smp early.if I wait until jan I won't be able to apply until around the end of feb. how much does rolling admission affect the likely hood of getting in? is a better MCAT and late app better? And if I do get in to smp early with average mcats will my average mcat be good enough for real med school?

also are my stats good enough to get into an SMP?

Any advice/general advice about my app would be great. thank you so much.

 

[badgercakes]

Are SMP's looking for anything different from med schools in terms of traits, EC's, etc., in an LOR, or should I just have my recommenders reuse the same letter but addressed to the SMP?

 

[DrMidlife]

What do y'all think?

This will sound harsh, but how I read that was:

blah blah blah cGPA: 3.2 and sGPA: 3.2 blah blah blah

That GPA is going to keep you out, plain and simple, no matter how much fraternity scuba you did.

You need GPA redemption, in addition to an above average MCAT, if you want to go to an MD school.

That GPA redemption needs to be a multi-year 3.7+ full time mostly science counterexample to your previous record. And even if you do that work, you still get no guarantees, and plenty of schools will give you no love because of your cumulative numbers.

If you do a 3.7 year this year, great, you still need another year. I think you should beat 32 on the MCAT this fall, and use that to get into a good SMP a year from now. Assume you need to complete the SMP before you apply.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hi, I have to make a tough MCAT decision based on smp and I was just wondering if I could get some advice from you smp masters.

I just graduated with a ug GPA of 3.13 I have pretty decent ECs, 150 patient care hours + 40 shadowing hours + 2 summers of research and a possible pub. haven't taken mcats yet

Because my grades are bad I'm highly considering taking an smp in 2013 and hoping to go to med school in 2014.

This summer I've been working on the MCATs and I really wanted to destroy them with a 33+ score, but I'm only getting 28s 29s 30s on my practice tests. My test date is september 11th, which is the last date this year.

The question is, should I postpone them until january 28th to get a better score? or settle with an average possibly below average score in order to apply to an smp early.if I wait until jan I won't be able to apply until around the end of feb. how much does rolling admission affect the likely hood of getting in? is a better MCAT and late app better? And if I do get in to smp early with average mcats will my average mcat be good enough for real med school?

also are my stats good enough to get into an SMP?

Any advice/general advice about my app would be great. thank you so much.

Taking the MCAT multiple times is inefficient and should be avoided. With a 3.13 you definitely need to beat 32 on the MCAT if you're targeting programs like Gtown etc. I vote for January.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Are SMP's looking for anything different from med schools in terms of traits, EC's, etc., in an LOR,

No.

or should I just have my recommenders reuse the same letter but addressed to the SMP?

No, just use med school LORs. SMPs are evaluating you for med school acceptability.

Never make a recommender send more than one letter. Get their recommendation for your med school candidacy, and have them send it to a letter service like Interfolio.

Best of luck to you.

 

[AshPreMed]

IS AN SMP UPGRADABLE TO A Ph.D.? On your resume, do you say it is an M.Sc. or an "SMP"? Also, which universities value SMP premeds?

 

[deleted248403]

IS AN SMP UPGRADABLE TO A Ph.D.?

No

On your resume, do you say it is an M.Sc. or an "SMP"?

Not SMP, but depends on the school.

Also, which universities value SMP premeds?

Not published data and no way of knowing, but all will entertain the idea

 

[AshPreMed]

So if I'm interested in doing an MD/PhD, should I go for the MSc instead of the SMP? Are they equally valued?

 

[deleted248403]

So if I'm interested in doing an MD/PhD, should I go for the MSc instead of the SMP? Are they equally valued?

If you have hopes of doing an MD/PhD - its prob not a good thing that you are looking at SMPs.... MD/PhD candidates typically have higher GPAs and MCATs than regular MD candidates...

Your best bet is to get into an MD school that has an MD/PhD program and then apply after you have started as an MD candidate.

The admissions for MD/PhD straight off the bat is way harder.

 

[AshPreMed]

But as an Honours B.Sc., my cGPA is 3.25, 3rd year is 3.75, and 3rd year summer (1 course) was 4.0. I get cum laude with my GPA being above 3.2, so that proves grade deflation (top 20 university), right? If my MCAT is 32, should I still look into SMPs? I really want to get into clinical research (I have no experience in lab work yet).

 

[DrMidlife]

But as an Honours B.Sc., my cGPA is 3.25, 3rd year is 3.75, and 3rd year summer (1 course) was 4.0. I get cum laude with my GPA being above 3.2, so that proves grade deflation (top 20 university), right? If my MCAT is 32, should I still look into SMPs? I really want to get into clinical research (I have no experience in lab work yet).

You're vastly underestimating the credentials of your competition. Med students average about 3.6+ GPA and 31+ MCAT. MD/PhD programs are considerably more competitive.

With no research experience, you have very little chance at an MD/PhD program. Your competition has pubs.

Your college's perspective on your capabilities doesn't count in med school admissions. If med schools have heard of your college, that's great, but the benefit falls on your classmates who have competitive stats.

You should do three things, at this point.

1. Get all A's. Every grade you get that isn't an A is a step away from med school.

2. Get your butt in a lab and do research any way you can. You may need to wash a lot of glassware before they let you do anything. So be it.

3. Wait on the MCAT until you're closer to being ready for med school.

I suggest staying in undergrad for a 5th year, 4.0-ing that year, then doing a traditional masters with a rigorous research thesis.

Best of luck to you.

 

[AshPreMed]

Why should I do a 5th year? I'm ENTERING my 4th year. My 3rd year was 3.75. Summer was 4.0.

Why should I not do the MCAT now??? and is research experience during the year necessary to get into an MSc? I have tried over 40 times but I am unable to get into a research lab...

 

[DrMidlife]

Why should I do a 5th year?

Because your cumulative GPA is low. Doing an additional year of undergrad is cheaper than all other GPA redemption options.

I'm ENTERING my 4th year. My 3rd year was 3.75. Summer was 4.0.

One A in one class this summer weighs nothing against the full picture of your undergrad performance.

If you've convinced yourself that you're fine, then why even ask?

Why should I not do the MCAT now??? .

The MCAT is changing format in 2015 and scores expire in 2-3 years. So if you're serious about research and you're doing a traditional masters to give yourself some MD/PhD credibility, then wait until you're closer to applying.

and is research experience during the year necessary to get into an MSc?

Depends. You'll need to do your own research into traditional grad programs. See the MSTP forum for more precise advice on MD/PhD admissions.

I have tried over 40 times but I am unable to get into a research lab...

Does it matter how many times you've tried? What if you have to try 400 times? It's your goal...if you're serious about MD/PhD then you need to do whatever it takes to make it happen. Such as, perhaps, some major introspection and seeking of feedback from PIs who have rejected you.

There's a ton of info in this forum about GPA redemption. You are missing out by trying to pull info with questions, as opposed to reading to educate yourself.

Best of luck to you.

 

[deleted248403]

Why should I do a 5th year? I'm ENTERING my 4th year. My 3rd year was 3.75. Summer was 4.0.

You got an A in one class.... congratulations....

You cGPA is still a 3.25 and you are more than 2 standard dev below the average MD student. You got work to do

 

[AshPreMed]

You have to be so rude?

First of all, my 3rd year (if you had read carefully) had 4 A's per semester and 1 B+, thus around a 3.75 GPA. I would like to know how someone could get above 3.7 without A's, lol. I have also had some A's in first year, but some other courses, especially in my GPA deflating university (3.2 is where the top cum laude students are, haha), had brought down the mark.

You don't know what my university's difficulty in exams is (it's notorious in Canada, feel free to google UofT), so please do not insult my grades and try to compare the differences in our studying (I'm obviously working to get above 3.7 and study in the library for 4 hours/day minimum during the school year). It's just that the class average (who are also very hardworking) are fixed by school policy at around 66% because they "don't want too many A's", no matter how hard every premed tries. In our last 2 years, they let the class average become a C+ (yay!) or B- if they're kind. You tell me how you jump above an 85% easily when the curve is constantly being pushed to the left (everyone else isn't lazy, the difference in your work has to be that much larger to get the 85). I'm just saying, it's quite a rare achievement to get an A at my university. Don't ask where the matriculants end up, the school provides no such statistics even when requested for them, hehe. But, it's a good "Spartan" school, IMO.

Second of all, I was not saying that I was unable to get a lab position to indicate giving up. Heck no, I'm going to continue searching. I was just looking forward to some tips from you on what to do if I don't manage to get a lab position in my 4th year. I will ask PIs who rejected me to provide me with helpful feedback. Did you state that if I did a Masters and graduated in summer 2014, my MCAT would be expired when applying for 2015 entry? Or, would it expire as soon as 2015 begins (I never read that before)?

Third of all, how significantly would a 5th year of a 3.8+ raise my cGPA, once the courses weigh only 5/25 (20%), compared to the rest of my courses? How much will the 5th year improve my cGPA even if it was a 4.0? Wouldn't I already be competitive enough with a 3.35+ cGPA and last 2 years of 3.75+ (a strong upward trend), and a 32+ MCAT (or 35+ perhaps)?

 

[DrMidlife]

UofT?

Now you mention you're Canadian. Highly relevant.

We have no useful info for you here. Nobody has reported back to this forum on Canadian GPA redemption. We have no info on likelihood of getting into Canadian schools, no info on likelihood of getting into US schools as a Canadian, no info on Canadian chances at MD/PhD, no info on UofT reputation.

Note that the main GPA redemption thread in this forum has almost a half million views. It's one of the highest trafficked threads on SDN. We get tons of inquiries from Canadians. Just nothing from Canadians who have redeemed their GPAs, by any means, to get into any med school. Nothing but pointers to the similarly content-free premed101.com site, which is apparently Canadian SDN.

Best of luck to you.

 

[AshPreMed]

Now you mention you're Canadian. Highly relevant.

We have no useful info for you here. Nobody has reported back to this forum on Canadian GPA redemption. We have no info on likelihood of getting into Canadian schools, no info on likelihood of getting into US schools as a Canadian, no info on Canadian chances at MD/PhD, no info on UofT reputation.

Note that the main GPA redemption thread in this forum has almost a half million views. It's one of the highest trafficked threads on SDN. We get tons of inquiries from Canadians. Just nothing from Canadians who have redeemed their GPAs, by any means, to get into any med school. Nothing but pointers to the similarly content-free premed101.com site, which is apparently Canadian SDN.

Best of luck to you.

But wait, I'm also an American citizen.

 

[blizzah]

You have to be so rude?

First of all, my 3rd year (if you had read carefully) had 4 A's per semester and 1 B+, thus around a 3.75 GPA. I would like to know how someone could get above 3.7 without A's, lol. I have also had some A's in first year, but some other courses, especially in my GPA deflating university (3.2 is where the top cum laude students are, haha), had brought down the mark.

You don't know what my university's difficulty in exams is (it's notorious in Canada, feel free to google UofT), so please do not insult my grades and try to compare the differences in our studying (I'm obviously working to get above 3.7 and study in the library for 4 hours/day minimum during the school year). It's just that the class average (who are also very hardworking) are fixed by school policy at around 66% because they "don't want too many A's", no matter how hard every premed tries. In our last 2 years, they let the class average become a C+ (yay!) or B- if they're kind. You tell me how you jump above an 85% easily when the curve is constantly being pushed to the left (everyone else isn't lazy, the difference in your work has to be that much larger to get the 85). I'm just saying, it's quite a rare achievement to get an A at my university. Don't ask where the matriculants end up, the school provides no such statistics even when requested for them, hehe. But, it's a good "Spartan" school, IMO.

Second of all, I was not saying that I was unable to get a lab position to indicate giving up. Heck no, I'm going to continue searching. I was just looking forward to some tips from you on what to do if I don't manage to get a lab position in my 4th year. I will ask PIs who rejected me to provide me with helpful feedback. Did you state that if I did a Masters and graduated in summer 2014, my MCAT would be expired when applying for 2015 entry? Or, would it expire as soon as 2015 begins (I never read that before)?

Third of all, how significantly would a 5th year of a 3.8+ raise my cGPA, once the courses weigh only 5/25 (20%), compared to the rest of my courses? How much will the 5th year improve my cGPA even if it was a 4.0? Wouldn't I already be competitive enough with a 3.35+ cGPA and last 2 years of 3.75+ (a strong upward trend), and a 32+ MCAT (or 35+ perhaps)?

A lot of us have gone to U of T before. No one (especially adcoms) will give a **** that it is perceived to be hard, because it is not. Stop trying to blame that, it will get you shot down in interviews as someone trying to make excuses.

You are already qualified for SMP, if you want to go that direction.

 

[AshPreMed]

So Harvard is not harder than the University of Alaska?

Because almost all of the best students in Canada go to UofT (like those in USA go to Harvard). Most Canadians who are as good as a US citizen would be for Harvard don't attend Harvard because they are extremely less competitive as internationals and the tuition is at least 5 times as expensive. The bulk of the best students of Canada thus attend UofT (which is still one of the best universities), and so very fierce competition accumulates in it, especially after the class averages are set particularly low (< 2.7), such that summa cum laude (top 10% GPA) is a 3.5 (not even good enough for medical school). Thus, the University of Toronto is known as the "Harvard of Canada", well at least to Canadians (, not others who are unaware of the top universities in other nations; but that's understandable, I also am not aware of some Japaneses ones, for example). Regardless, a relevant point I must make is that if medical school admission committees will be factoring the rankings of top American universities in their admission process, they should at least be aware of the top 20 (if not 30) universities worldwide, if they are to be fair. It is quite concerning when an admissions officer on the telephone asks you if your 12th-in-life-science university (that happens to not be in the USA, rather just up North) is accredited.

The other Canadian universities rank significantly behind UofT in research and academics (UofT is even ahead of John Hopkins in life science, a true surprise to me http://www.usnews.com/education/wor...ankings/best-universities-biological-sciences). Now try to convince an arrogant and naive, top student in Canada to attend a university other than one ranked higher than John Hopkins and at least 5 times cheaper, in their country. Consequently, it is the cream-of-the-crop competition, combined with the class average being permanently fixed below 2.7, that require more effort and skill to achieve a 3.7+, than most low-tier universities. If you think it is just as hard as any other university, then Harvard should be just as hard as any other university, by your logic. Or is Harvard a special case because it is so glorified and well-known? Recognition of the rigor and degree of grade deflation of a program should be based on the attributes of the program itself, not on its location with respect to borders nor its popularity in the social media.

 

[blizzah]

dude look at the class sizes for Harvard and u of t. You are dreaming if you think u of t is in the same stratosphere as hyp

You sir, are an idiot. I'm ashamed I went to the same school as you

 

[AshPreMed]

The class sizes do not matter if the bell curve distribution is the same for an equally top class. The size of the class is still proportional to the number of A's allowable. You end up with the same degree of fierce competition regardless, even if there's a larger number of A's.

You, sir, like to deny the difficulty of UofT to make yourself seem smarter (as if it is "easy" for you). I also gave solid reasons. You didn't. Almost everyone at UofT believes it is harder than others, and the level of studying UofT students put in to barely get over an 80%, for which their counterparts in other university would easily get above 90%. Having the top students competing with you instead of 60%-average high school students who went to an unknown university is quite a different rigor (and that's generally well-known). The top 10% at UofT have a 3.5+ GPA (due to the FIXED bell-curve), according to the Dean's list. Would you mind just addressing that point, at least? At most other universities, the top 10% would be above 3.7+. My GPA for last year was 3.75, so I am definitely doing better than 90% of the students, yet I am telling you this. Nevertheless, UofT is still a good university as it trains students to study harder and smarter; but its rigor and GPA-deflation should be recognized, to be fair, when its students are applying (if it isn't already recognized by some).

Why do you think I'm dreaming if I say something new to popular belief but backed by a lot of evidence? Is it because popular culture states "Hopkins is the best, so is yale, etc" while those same people aren't even aware of the presence of UofT? I would not trust these rumors when judging difficulty. Most Ivy league schools have higher FIXED class averages (76%+) than UofT (67%+) and, as I said above, most of the best in Canada do not go to Harvard, rather UofT. So the class is also filled with the cream-of-the-crop in Canada. UofT's rigor isn't known because UofT itself basically gets no attention in the US, whereas everyone is glamorizing Ivy League schools (movies, popular talk, etc). Some Ivy leagues are more difficult than UofT, I did not state otherwise. Why do you think all Ivy Leagues have to be harder than UofT? Just tell me. UofT being 12th in Life Science, ahead of Hopkins, does give it some credibility in having top-notch competition, and the 3.5+ GPA being top 10% demonstrates grade deflation. This is evidence. What's your take on this?

 

[DrMidlife]

How about taking this pointless undergrad ranking conference elsewhere. It has nothing to do with helping people figure out what SMPs are.

If you have low stats, you have low stats. Period. You are kidding yourself if you think you can hide your low stats behind your undergrad school's prestige. I don't care where you went. Med school admissions committees have way too many over-qualified candidates for them to get excited about under-qualified candidates.

If you're convinced that you're an exception because your school is extra fancy, then go apply to med school and leave us alone.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Bforn]

Excellent thread! Thanks to everyone who contributed.