Three years vs four years

[ZakMeister]

Hello all,

My apologies if its a repeated topic but i couldnt find the original topic. I am going to enrol in a three year pharmacy school. My question is how does a curriculum being a three or four years have a bearing on the quality of education, degree and outlook to prospective employers?

Since most of you are en route graduation or have already graduated, please fill me in! Thanks

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[MSSimpson12]

So far it seems to be the same as far as the counterpart 4-year school in my state is to the 3-year one I'm at, just with the fast forward button on. Get ready to cram a lot. Including weekends. Unless you're one of those lucky individuals with the photographic memory. Good luck!

 

[ZakMeister]

So far it seems to be the same as far as the counterpart 4-year school in my state is to the 3-year one I'm at, just with the fast forward button on. Get ready to cram a lot. Including weekends. Unless you're one of those lucky individuals with the photographic memory. Good luck!

I guess so, but some professors say that people are not employable enough when they come out of the three years school coz of their apparent lack of internships/experience. This is what I am particularly concerned with, as one cant do summer internships while being in a three year program though semester long internships are doable. On a similar note, are you aware of any internship programs that hospitals typically offer?

 

[Amicable Angora]

I guess so, but some professors say that people are not employable enough when they come out of the three years school coz of their apparent lack of internships/experience. This is what I am particularly concerned with, as one cant do summer internships while being in a three year program though semester long internships are doable. On a similar note, are you aware of any internship programs that hospitals typically offer?

3 year programs can be extremely stressful.

 

[ZakMeister]

3 year programs can be extremely stressful.

I know, but there are more important issues than stress that I am worried about.

 

[Amicable Angora]

I know, but there are more important issues than stress that I am worried about.

Such as?

 

[ZakMeister]

Such as?

one cant do summer internships while being in a three year program though semester long internships are doable. On a similar note, are you aware of any internship programs that hospitals typically offer?

 

[Amicable Angora]

one cant do summer internships while being in a three year program though semester long internships are doable. On a similar note, are you aware of any internship programs that hospitals typically offer?

You get these either by knowing someone inside, or having your school recommend you a job.

 

[Its Z]

One major difference between 3 vs. 4 year Pharm.D. program is that with 4 year program takes 1 more year.

 

[ZakMeister]

One major difference between 3 vs. 4 year Pharm.D. program is that with 4 year program takes 1 more year.

Seriously man, why state the obvious? -_- I had a serious question indeed!

 

[Its Z]

Seriously man, why state the obvious? -_- I had a serious question indeed!

And my response is serious....if you read it carefully and with thoughts.

 

[ZakMeister]

And my response is serious....if you read it carefully and with thoughts.

I knew that, but my questions amongst many were how it's going to affect one's employability as it's unlikely that an accelerated program student manage summer internships etc. Also I heard some employers have negative bias towards the three years students. I just wanted to confirm these.

 

[positivesign]

Even if you go to a 4 year school, you can work full-time only during summer and winter breaks. It's a good amount of time to train someone, but the person won't be as good as a full-time employee.
Also, employers around your school will be already familiar with your school's curriculum and have experience modulating interns' schedule based on that. Unless there is a 4-year school in the vicinity, hopefully they won't count the curriculum against you.

 

[BeLikeBueller]

I knew that, but my questions amongst many were how it's going to affect one's employability as it's unlikely that an accelerated program student manage summer internships etc. Also I heard some employers have negative bias towards the three years students. I just wanted to confirm these.

Sorry, but I had to lol about the 1 year thing. Sadly, I don't know that anyone is really qualified to answer this question for you, since no one has done both a 3-year and a 4-year program. I will say that I have heard (anecdotally) that some pharmacists who have worked with graduates from 3-year programs don't feel they are necessarily as competent as grads from 4-year programs. However, I would also say that it is possible that pharmacist might just have been a bad student. A bad student at a 4-year program is going to be just as bad as a bad student from a 3-year program. It should be noted that this less-competent 3-year grad did still have a job too, so there is that...

I will say this though, don't underestimate the value of breaks. I know you think you're ready for the intense stress, but pharmacy school is a mentally and emotionally draining experience. I'm a four year student and I very highly value my breaks. If you want to go and do a residency, you might want to consider a four-year program, because it is going to be easier to stay afloat/excel with the longer period of study (and you need pretty good grades for a residency these days). If you just want to work retail, then you might be better served to do a 3 year program, especially if it can save you some loan money (I don't know if 3-year programs are cheaper or not...my guess is probably not, but who knows?)

Best of luck!

 

[ZakMeister]

Sorry, but I had to lol about the 1 year thing. Sadly, I don't know that anyone is really qualified to answer this question for you, since no one has done both a 3-year and a 4-year program. I will say that I have heard (anecdotally) that some pharmacists who have worked with graduates from 3-year programs don't feel they are necessarily as competent as grads from 4-year programs. However, I would also say that it is possible that pharmacist might just have been a bad student. A bad student at a 4-year program is going to be just as bad as a bad student from a 3-year program. It should be noted that this less-competent 3-year grad did still have a job too, so there is that...

I will say this though, don't underestimate the value of breaks. I know you think you're ready for the intense stress, but pharmacy school is a mentally and emotionally draining experience. I'm a four year student and I very highly value my breaks. If you want to go and do a residency, you might want to consider a four-year program, because it is going to be easier to stay afloat/excel with the longer period of study (and you need pretty good grades for a residency these days). If you just want to work retail, then you might be better served to do a 3 year program, especially if it can save you some loan money (I don't know if 3-year programs are cheaper or not...my guess is probably not, but who knows?)

Best of luck!

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Bueller! A lot of what you said is practical and does make sense, but I wonder why should there be a difference between three and four yr schools if the degree one gets is the same and that too accredited by the omnipotent AACP. Also for licensure if a particular state has certain academic proficiency requirements, then both three and four programs in that state should fulfill them. So this part is kinda confusing.

The school I will be going to has classes from 8-3 every weekdays and only two and half months of break in a year altogether. I guess the depth both the programs aim for is the same, but the three years are more crammed? I am looking to get into clinical pharmacy and thats why your opinion that three years prolly dont get into residencies successfully is worrying!

 

[BeLikeBueller]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Bueller! A lot of what you said is practical and does make sense, but I wonder why should there be a difference between three and four yr schools if the degree one gets is the same and that too accredited by the omnipotent AACP. Also for licensure if a particular state has certain academic proficiency requirements, then both three and four programs in that state should fulfill them. So this part is kinda confusing.

The school I will be going to has classes from 8-3 every weekdays and only two and half months of break in a year altogether. I guess the depth both the programs aim for is the same, but the three years are more crammed? I am looking to get into clinical pharmacy and thats why your opinion that three years prolly dont get into residencies successfully is worrying!

Well, keep in mind, I'm still just a student, so don't take what I've said as the gospel truth. It would really be better if some of the clinical or hospital folks could comment, since you're looking at doing a residency.

The overarching requirements should be similar between three and four year programs, but it could be possible that certain things might be shortened, simply because of the accelerated nature of the program. Although if you're in class from 8-3 most days, that's more than I'm in class, so you very well may cover the full spectrum that most four year programs cover.

I didn't realize you had already accepted (should have read the original post a little better), so I don't want to freak you out with the stress and break thing. It's obviously doable, since there are people that graduate from three year programs every year. It may just mean that you have to stay a little more focused and have better time management than some of the rest of us.

To me, the disadvantage of a three-year program is that it's just a less common program (I really don't know as far as the academic merit, etc., which will vary between schools anyways). Most people are used to the four year programs, and we have a tendency to prefer the familiar. The education is what you make of it though. If you work hard and study hard, I'm sure you'll do well. One big tip is to try to be well prepared for your advanced rotations. Those can essentially be job and/or residency interviews, so if you can make a good name for yourself there, that can help you out greatly when graduation rolls around.

 

[Its Z]

I'm in a hiring position. Hired 4 pharmacists last 3 months.

I care not if 3 or 4 year program as I'm hiring a pharmacist... not your program.

 

[PharmEcon]

Upsides of 4 year school - have more time for internships- a lot of 3 year schedules won't allow you to do some of the ~8 week summer internships just because you will have class.

Upside of 3 year school- you save a year's tuition plus you don't pay the opportunity cost of one year less of work (in terms of salary, experience, and accumulated interest).

 

[zelman]

Upsides of 4 year school - have more time for internships- a lot of 3 year schedules won't allow you to do some of the ~8 week summer internships just because you will have class.

Upside of 3 year school- you save a year's tuition plus you don't pay the opportunity cost of one year less of work (in terms of salary, experience, and accumulated interest).

Tuition is the same.

 

[68quebec]

Tuition is the same.

some school do and some don't.

 

[moolman]

I'm in a hiring position. Hired 4 pharmacists last 3 months.

I care not if 3 or 4 year program as I'm hiring a pharmacist... not your program.

Agreed, nobody gives a rat's butt if you went to a 3 or 4 year school. All this bs about maybe it's better for residency or finding a job is crap. It all boils down to you, how ambitious you are and what you do.

I went to a 3 year school, I felt no disadvantage applying for a residency and getting one. I had a part time job interning during school. True, I didn't have a full time summer job, but let's face it, intern jobs can be fairly crappy jobs where you might not learn much. Just filling full time if you do retail, I just worked through the year. The big advantage was finishing early. I met other 1st year students at conferences and when I was a resident, they were 4th year students on rotations still, I made them my bit×××es.... I kid, I kid. .. but you get the point. We started together but I got there faster. 1.5 months off in summer and 1 month in winter was plenty of off time for me. Having 3 months of full time crap intern work doesn't add much.

 

[phathead]

Do you want to be an manic depressive alcoholic in three years or in four years?

I kid, I kid. Now where's my Jack, Lorazepam and Coke?

 

[PharmEcon]

Tuition is the same.

Depends on the program, definitely not true for all. But even if the paid tuition is same over the 3 or 4 years, no 4 year program comes out 1 year's worth of salary/experience cheaper. There is an opportunity cost to the extra year.

 

[pianoiscool]

not sure

 

[ZakMeister]

don't do it bro. don't do the 3 years. i'm a first year and i hate it. there aren't gonna be any summer breaks... eek! that's gonna be tough when all your other friends are on summer vacation...

I hear you bro, but Im in a situation where I have no other choice. I am aware of the hardships, and I am ready to become a machine. What I am worried more is about the exposure to any internship during the semester. Which school are you going to?

 

[pianoiscool]

i'm in a 3 year track. yeah i haven't gotten one yet. since i've been in the direct program since undergrad. and the transfer pharmacy students already had jobs as techs and got promoted to intern when we got our licenses.
i have my pharmacy intern license but we'll see. i wanna apply for an intern position before next semester. that's what i'll try to do during winter break.

 

[ZakMeister]

lol i'm a girl but i'm at university of the pacific. its also a 3 year track. yeah i haven't gotten one yet. since i've been in the direct program since undergrad. and the transfer pharmacy students already had jobs as techs and got promoted to intern when we got our licenses.
i have my pharmacy intern license but we'll see. i wanna apply for an intern position before next semester. that's what i'll try to do during winter break.

Lol. Ok. I reckon the pressure is killing you, but hang in there . Shed some light on my knowledge now: I am an international student and I dont have any retail experience in the US. If I try to get into a pharmacy, can I get in as an intern without the pharm tech licensure? UOP is a good school, so you should be fine

 

[moolman]

lol i'm a girl but i'm at university of the pacific. its also a 3 year track. yeah i haven't gotten one yet. since i've been in the direct program since undergrad. and the transfer pharmacy students already had jobs as techs and got promoted to intern when we got our licenses.
i have my pharmacy intern license but we'll see. i wanna apply for an intern position before next semester. that's what i'll try to do during winter break.

Where do you think I went to school. Your best bet is the job fair. Your ability to talk well during the job fair will determine if you're driving to lodi or Walnut Creek for an intern job or staying in Stockton.

The transfers do not have all the jobs, you just need to be ambitious and put yourself out there.

 

[pianoiscool]

Where do you think I went to school. Your best bet is the job fair. Your ability to talk well during the job fair will determine if you're driving to lodi or Walnut Creek for an intern job or staying in Stockton.

The transfers do not have all the jobs, you just need to be ambitious and put yourself out there.

i love talking
and what job fair? at the end or during first semester? are you talking about the pharmacy showcase?

aww i wanna know about your experience now! like how was pharmacy school for you? (i'm kinda depressed and stressed) and did you get a job after graduating? PM me?

 

[moolman]

i love talking but damn bro UOP is a tough school!
and what job fair? at the end or during first semester? are you talking about the pharmacy showcase?

aww i wanna know about your experience now! like how was pharmacy school for you? (i'm kinda depressed and stressed) and did you get a job after graduating? PM me?

Lesson #1, you're the one asking for a favor, shouldn't you PM me and not put the burden on me to contact you, that way I'm more willing to help you. So when you go to the job fair, you should approach first and be the one that carries the conversation.

 

[pbxdjspex]

I got to an accredited 3 year school. And we get summers off to do internships. And it's only 6 weeks full time. So after 3 years is have way more than enough hours/experience.
However the stress level during the school is skyrocketed