Top pharmacy schools to avoid

[RxBison]

14% projected job growth is 41,400 pharmacists over the next 10 years, or 4,140 new jobs created each year. About 14,000-15,000 students graduate from pharmacy schools each year. That is over 3x the number of expected job openings!

Speaking of the BLS, I would like to cite software engineering/development which has a 22% (much faster than average) projected growth. The average salary is $93,350. Software developers only need to take out a fraction of the loans pharmacists do and sometimes do not even need a college degree.
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm

Pharmacists are heavy contenders to be primary care doctors. Someone is drunk on pharmacy school propaganda Kool Aid.

Yes, competition for pharmacy has increased indeed. We know that...we understand.

BLS does not show the minimum of salaries......unless it is hidden in the depths of the internet. BLS shows the median of $93,350 for software engineers. But you are not guaranteed to start there. A NOVICE engineer (because we all want novice engineers right?) might start at 60k-70k. Furthermore, how long will i need to develop to land a 100k job? Will i have to uproot my life to go to where this job is located? etc etc

Again as a pharmacist, if i were to get the lowest salaried job I'm guaranteed to start at a minimum of 88k. Personally, I'm not choosing pharmacy for money, but it is nice to know that i would be compensated with a minimum of such...not only that but KNOWING that I could go anywhere with my career choice, no boundaries.

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[RxBison]

Pharmacists are heavy contenders to be primary care doctors. Someone is drunk on pharmacy school propaganda Kool Aid.

I probably am drunk on propaganda. Or.........maybe I just misinterpret the past 3 years of NIH clinical trials that successfully integrated pharmacist into primary care teams ranging from asthmatic patients, hypertension, and diabetes II
If you disagree please show me something from a reputable source that otherwise states.

 

[oldstock]

I probably am drunk on propaganda. Or.........maybe I just misinterpret the past 3 years of NIH clinical trials that successfully integrated pharmacist into primary care teams ranging from asthmatic patients, hypertension, and diabetes II
If you disagree please show me something from a reputable source that otherwise states.

dang, another one. I give up man !!

 

[RxBison]

@stoichiometrist : this guy @RxBison mention job growth but he forgot the supply from 140s schools and growing.


His post shocks me though...

"pharmacists are heavy contenders to be primary care doctors. I myself believe in the next 10 years, pharmacists will be considered primary care doctors who soley monitor chronic patients etc etc.
Job security....yea check that off."

"some schools have more options and outlets of pharmacy positions".
wth is an outlet of pharmacy position ?? (scratching my head)...

or "the direct pipeline to the NIH, FDA, Veterans Affairs, Clinical, and International pharm companies" from Howard U SOP as they are the only pharm school in pharmacy.

They have pipeline ?? and direct ?? what kind of things are they pumping there to the NIH, FDA, VA, "clinical and international pharm companies" ????


"Don't let half baked ideas (with no statistical backing) from people on this page discourage you from your desires." Please enlighten us w your statistic, man


jesus, this is the kind of people that will represent the future of the pharmacy profession !! frightening !!!!


@PharmDCandidate2014 @stoichiometrist : dang you guys already beat me to it !!!!

As i just mentioned maybe I just misinterpret the past 3 years of NIH clinical trials that successfully integrated pharmacist into primary care teams ranging from asthmatic patients, hypertension, and diabetes II
If you disagree please show me something from a reputable source that otherwise states.....last time I checked pharmacists even in the retail position were doing the jobs of primary care doctors/nurses round the clock? No?....when was the last time you had a copay to consult your pharmacist?...again these pharmacists aren't just filling prescriptions, now are doing consultations and immunizations (including travel).....you know that thing all parents have to do before school starts, now can be done at your local pharmacy......sounds like primary care to me (again go look at articles from NIH)

There are specialized pharmacy practices. So say you want to work with government regulation of pharmaceuticals. FDA sounds like your area of interest with career in mind. Why not apply or attend a university that has joint programs near CBER (in Rockville Maryland)? <<< DIRECT PIPELINES.....and what they are pumping is students....http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Partner...fUnderstandingMOUs/AcademiaMOUs/ucm117666.htm

Again i gave my statistic of 14% by 2022 backed by the BLS. I made no other statistical claim, so I don't understand where are my statistics. If your referring the statements I made then i would be gladly to send you whatever information you think is outlandish or bogus.

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

I probably am drunk on propaganda. Or.........maybe I just misinterpret the past 3 years of NIH clinical trials that successfully integrated pharmacist into primary care teams ranging from asthmatic patients, hypertension, and diabetes II
If you disagree please show me something from a reputable source that otherwise states.

So pharmacists rounding with physicians suddenly make them heavy contenders to be primary care doctors? I am sorry to disappoint you, but the PharmD education is concentrated around therapeutics and medication. There is barely enough room to fit satisfactory patient diagnosis into the curriculum. If you want to go ahead and call yourself a primary care doctor, I am not stopping you - but the fact is, the scope of pharmacy and medicine will not have significant overlap to justify your claim. Try diagnosing a patient, the expertise and responsibility of a primary care doctor, and you'll hurt your head keeping track of how many lawyers start knocking your door.

You also don't need proof from the NIH that pharmacists rounding with physicians and other health care professionals have been beneficiary to patient care, nor did I ever downplay the pharmacist's role in a healthcare team in my post. Please stop citing random symptoms in an effort to defend your point, it is unnecessary and silly.

 

[RxBison]

The reason

So pharmacists rounding with physicians suddenly make them heavy contenders to be primary care doctors? I am sorry to disappoint you, but the PharmD education is concentrated around therapeutics and medication. There is barely enough room to fit satisfactory patient diagnosis into the curriculum. If you want to go ahead and call yourself a primary care doctor, I am not stopping you - but the fact is, the scope of pharmacy and medicine will not have significant overlap to justify your claim. Try diagnosing a patient, the expertise and responsibility of a primary care doctor, and you'll hurt your head keeping track of how many lawyers start knocking your door.

You also don't need proof from the NIH that pharmacists rounding with physicians and other health care professionals have been beneficiary to patient care, nor did I ever downplay the pharmacist's role in a healthcare team in my post. Please stop citing random symptoms in an effort to defend your point, it is unnecessary and silly.

like i was saying, don't be ignorant, do the research, I gave you one incidence of primary care practice. There are so many more. Maybe you should look at the definition of primary care then see how the point I speculating has validity. The bottom line is that pharmacists are not working at the top of their practice. When paired in a joint effort with primary care doctors (physicians), nurses, and social workers (as needed), pharmacists are much more effective. The symptoms i noted were chronic patients, which is where pharmacists prove to more useful than a doctor/ nurse team alone. Non-adherence to medicines for chronic patients proves to be detrimental to health. But pharmacists working alongside a primary health team allows for greater patient coverage...

Again you are misinterpreting what I am saying, or maybe I should have been more clear I am not downplaying a primary care physicians! I am saying that they too are working at the bottom of there practices in a communal setting.

I know legislation had been passed in 2013 in California in 2013 that started to lean towards pharmacists acting more like primary care doctors. i SPECULATED within the next ten years a shift will be made where pharmacist are practicing at the top of their license and being compensated as such. The lack of physicians plays a huge role! Especially with the Patient Protection Plan and Affordable Care Act.. Pharmacists are more readily available and can cover gaps that the lack of physicians has created. Never did I say that pharmacists will be physicians, I said primary care doctors....maybe I should not assume that you consider a pharmacist a doctor..............but they have a doctorate degree

I cited what I cited because you claimed that I am "drunk off pharmacy school propaganda kool aid" when I am telling you that this "propaganda" is already in its early stages and making shifts towards that path (which is why i speculated 10 years).

 

[deleted390966]

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[gagequintin]

News: Pharmacists are also replaceable

Never said they were irreplaceable..

 

[oldstock]

@RxBison : jesus, please go back and reread what @stoichiometrist and @PharmDCandidate2014 are saying there and reflect a little.

but I would like to also give you something to think about:

-what is the supply here for pharmacy job ?? how big is this supply?? what is the demand there ?? how big is this demand ?? supply (140s schools and growing x 100 to 150 student per class per year) vs demand (per the BLS stats you cited, 14% is their estimated number for growth for pharmacist job btw 2012 - 2022 or 41,400 jobs for 10 yrs or 4,140 jobs per year). What are the other factors that can affect this balance of supply and demand ?? What are the consequences of endless school opening ??

-what is the ROI when you look at pharmacy vs other career choices ?? now and the near future ??

-there is check and balance in healthcare system to dedicate/specialize roles to minimize and prevent mistakes and abuse. Doctor is to diagnose, pharmacist to verify-dispense doctors' medication orders, nurses deliver medication to the patients, monitor and report patients' progress back to doctors. Perfect harmony. Now if everyone is playing doctor, what is going to happen to this harmony ??

I think we should let the pre-meds know about this. You only need a 2.7 GPA and 40 PCAT to get into pharmacy school, then you can become a primary care doctor! Forget about 4 years of med school and 3 years of residency!

sadly, this is the current trend in healthcare. Everyone wants to play doctors without the training and qualifications these days. I am wondering why medical schools have not already started teaching pharmacy and nursing to med school students ?? There would eliminate the need for pharmacy or nursing schools. Everything is now under one roof. You diagnose, check and verify, dispense, and deliver medications to the patients, all done by yourself. And that would solve the problem. (Except that it is more difficult to spot your own mistakes or call out your own abuse than do other people's. Not to mention one has to go to schools for the next 30-40 years for all that training).

But, how are many pre-pharmers w 2s GPA and/or 5-10s-20s PCAT going to get accepted to med schools ?? Jeez I almost forgot about that... Maybe all 140s pharmacy schools should come up w a new degree called MedPharmD and start handing them out now

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

The reason


like i was saying, don't be ignorant, do the research, I gave you one incidence of primary care practice. There are so many more. Maybe you should look at the definition of primary care then see how the point I speculating has validity. The bottom line is that pharmacists are not working at the top of their practice. When paired in a joint effort with primary care doctors (physicians), nurses, and social workers (as needed), pharmacists are much more effective. The symptoms i noted were chronic patients, which is where pharmacists prove to more useful than a doctor/ nurse team alone. Non-adherence to medicines for chronic patients proves to be detrimental to health. But pharmacists working alongside a primary health team allows for greater patient coverage...

Again you are misinterpreting what I am saying, or maybe I should have been more clear I am not downplaying a primary care physicians! I am saying that they too are working at the bottom of there practices in a communal setting.

I know legislation had been passed in 2013 in California in 2013 that started to lean towards pharmacists acting more like primary care doctors. i SPECULATED within the next ten years a shift will be made where pharmacist are practicing at the top of their license and being compensated as such. The lack of physicians plays a huge role! Especially with the Patient Protection Plan and Affordable Care Act.. Pharmacists are more readily available and can cover gaps that the lack of physicians has created. Never did I say that pharmacists will be physicians, I said primary care doctors....maybe I should not assume that you consider a pharmacist a doctor..............but they have a doctorate degree

I cited what I cited because you claimed that I am "drunk off pharmacy school propaganda kool aid" when I am telling you that this "propaganda" is already in its early stages and making shifts towards that path (which is why i speculated 10 years).

I suppose the increase in PA's and RN's has nothing to do with alleviating the shortage of physicians then? You must be a pharmacy school recruiter. I have heard the buzzwords 'provider status', 'MTM' and 'increased team coverage' over and over again. Just tell me why insurance companies are going to start reimbursing pharmacists for their services while they're cutting reimbursements elsewhere. Does it make sense financially?

Anyway, I am done making my points. Your enthusiasm would be a lot more effective directed toward policy makers in DC, not on SDN. The same goes for the rest of the enthusiastic P1-to be's.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I know legislation had been passed in 2013 in California in 2013 that started to lean towards pharmacists acting more like primary care doctors. i SPECULATED within the next ten years a shift will be made where pharmacist are practicing at the top of their license and being compensated as such. The lack of physicians plays a huge role! Especially with the Patient Protection Plan and Affordable Care Act.. Pharmacists are more readily available and can cover gaps that the lack of physicians has created. Never did I say that pharmacists will be physicians, I said primary care doctors....maybe I should not assume that you consider a pharmacist a doctor..............but they have a doctorate degree

Once you're in the field long enough, you'll understand why "provider status" is another that serves to inflate projected pharmacist job growth. In the mid and late 2000s MTM was the huge new thing in pharmacy. How many retail stores and pharmacists do you see performing MTM today and actually getting reimbursed adequately for it? How many pharmacists are actually reimbursed for their "provider status" today?

The majority of the pharmacists (about 70%) work in a retail dispensing setting; that has not changed and is unlikely to do so. The speciality jobs are very far and few with most of them requiring residencies and fellowships.

 

[oldstock]

@RxBisonsadly, this is the current trend in healthcare. Everyone wants to play doctors without the training and qualifications these days. I am wondering why medical schools have not already started teaching pharmacy and nursing to med school students ?? There would eliminate the need for pharmacy or nursing schools. Everything is now under one roof. You diagnose, check and verify, dispense, and deliver medications to the patients, all done by yourself. And that would solve the problem. (Except that it is more difficult to spot your own mistakes or call out your own abuse than do other people's. Not to mention one has to go to schools for the next 30-40 years for all that training).

But, how are many pre-pharmers w 2s GPA and/or 5-10s-20s PCAT going to get accepted to med schools ?? Jeez I almost forgot about that... Maybe all 140s pharmacy schools should come up w a new degree called MedPharmD and start handing them out now

my conspiracy theorist tells me that this is the imaginary carrots that schools come up for pre-health students. More students = more $$$$$ in tuition for schools. Whether students can or cannot realize and eat the carrots is not the schools' problem. Schools always got paid first !!

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Its hilarious that Pharmacy to these folks is not considered a job "in demand" when the demand for pharmacists is already in need and is projected to increase by at least 14% by 2022.........you can verify that statistic with forbes magazine (ranking pharmacy top health care profession for past year based on median salary and demand).

That statistic did not originally come from Forbes. Forbes posted that from the BLS website. I hope you are aware that 3 years ago BLS predicted a 27% increase in the number of job openings. They dramatically overestimated this statistic. Unfortunately, this job opening statistic is questionable at best.

Edit - Saw that you were aware of the statistic coming from BLS and not Forbes. Everything else is as is.

Another idea to consider is pharmacists are heavy contenders to be primary care doctors. I myself believe in the next 10 years, pharmacists will be considered primary care doctors who soley monitor chronic patients etc etc.

I stopped reading your post after this. How can you say that when the majority of the field works retail?

 

[PharmtoCS]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ions-about-the-pharmacist-job-market.1042940/

So that we don't have to beat the dead horse every time someone brings up BLS and ADI statistics, provider status, non-traditional jobs, or about "standing out."

 

[YOWAT]

Just do well in school and get a pharmacy degree. so wat about the math. the degree is the math. who can get this career degree? no one. we can so be fortunate. just no if its hard it will pay dividends, yr helping yrself and others. clearly professional and very admirable. just follow your heart and not these statistics. you know what is right and what doesn't make sense. we're all smart enough to make decisions. just try to weigh things out and use yr heart and common sense.

 

[fewaopi]

As i just mentioned maybe I just misinterpret the past 3 years of NIH clinical trials that successfully integrated pharmacist into primary care teams ranging from asthmatic patients, hypertension, and diabetes II
If you disagree please show me something from a reputable source that otherwise states.....last time I checked pharmacists even in the retail position were doing the jobs of primary care doctors/nurses round the clock? No?....when was the last time you had a copay to consult your pharmacist?...again these pharmacists aren't just filling prescriptions, now are doing consultations and immunizations (including travel).....you know that thing all parents have to do before school starts, now can be done at your local pharmacy......sounds like primary care to me (again go look at articles from NIH)

There are specialized pharmacy practices. So say you want to work with government regulation of pharmaceuticals. FDA sounds like your area of interest with career in mind. Why not apply or attend a university that has joint programs near CBER (in Rockville Maryland)? <<< DIRECT PIPELINES.....and what they are pumping is students....http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Partner...fUnderstandingMOUs/AcademiaMOUs/ucm117666.htm

Again i gave my statistic of 14% by 2022 backed by the BLS. I made no other statistical claim, so I don't understand where are my statistics. If your referring the statements I made then i would be gladly to send you whatever information you think is outlandish or bogus.

No idea what you're smoking dude but please share it with all so we can escape from reality!

Provide links to your sources and trials please. At least when we try to inform and do career research so prepharmers make a well-informed, better guided decision we provide links which you'll find in other threads.

As mentioned by Sugoi Travis, BLS severely downgraded pharmacist outlook previously. I remember it was 27% and even higher before and now it just keeps coming down. BLS doesn't just overestimate pharmacy profession but pretty much all professions. I see other professions where they profess growth in pretty much all career areas even law which is 10%, not much different from pharmacy and you already know the law story. Same with psychologists and we're a bit more familiar with that story. You are probably too young but BLS actually used to be very optimistic about pharmacy job growth which I also considered and now realize it's total BS. You also have to think, why would the government ever publish negative or close to zero growth rates for all occupations? It'd be a sign that the gov't is failing to encourage job growth no? We all want good news and are selectively biased towards it and every song/dance ends. The pharmacy party is cooling down now and will end sooner or later.

The FDA is for Howard which I understand to be a HBCU so it doesn't solve the problem at hand, how to make sure there's enough employment for the vast number of pharmacy grads with free-market forces at work? Most of us are born to the wrong tribe and have you spoken to people from that program? Otherwise what's the answer? Apparently let the free market work and let pharmacy wages go down, unemployment to rise, students slowly realizing they've been sold a box of tacks and pursuing other careers and school shut downs (which will happen like it did with dentistry in the 80s-90s). Hence better to go to a state school or well-reputable school that won't close down and can continually provide alumni connections.

Never in my life saw retail doing the jobs of primary care doctors/nurses. Ever. Minute clinics are staffed by nurses, not pharmacists. Why? Pharmacists are not diagnosticians. And counseling? You can pretty much google everything. The internet itself is killing so many jobs and will kill more. Education is looking to be cut severely by the internet and pharmacy easily can be too. Immunizations has been going on for years now and it hasn't created any new jobs. It's just added more responsibility and workload with no increase in pay or share of those profits. MTM, no time to bill or do when you have a line of customers in front of you, reports to do, drugs to fill/check.

Pharmacists rounding with medical teams isn't new. It's been going on for a while now. Every hospital is different but pharmacists don't always do rounds. And there are not enough jobs to accommodate the flood of graduates. Not too mention but now the whole industry feels wages for hospital pharmacists will go down. If you really want to hear it direct and not from a forum, take pharmacy residents out for some drinks and get them to spill everything, you aren't going to like it all too much. Hospitals hire pharmacists to save money and with the pressure to cut costs, pharmacists are one of those professions. Though these cuts are industry wide, not just pharmacists. We get so focused on pharmacy we forget all fields are suffering but pharmacy is looking to be much worse with nursing due to school expansion and proliferation. Medicine and dentistry have things more or less under control.

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics. Don't believe everything you read or hear. Go straight to the source, ask someone directly.

 

[RxBison]

im definetely not going to respond to all the posts that were made haha.

At the end of the day we all are going to do what we want. Im fortunate enough to have no debt now so i will go ahead and tske the minor loans i needs for pharmacy school and run with it.

 

[68quebec]

looks like between many 'pre-pharmacy' students and not are having complete opposite view of job prospect. lol

 

[GuyJoe1987]

Every profession is choked or saturated. More importantly every health care profession is saturated or choked; Nursing, medical doctors, pharmacist, e.t.c But as human beings we all make choices. Therefore if you think the pharmacy profession is saturated, don't discourage prospective applicants. If you love what you do, you will never worry about how much you are being paid. Yea...Yea...yea I know what you are thinking, but I believe investing in your education is the best investment you can make....so the debbie downers and their bogus stats, please SHUT UP!!!! if you are not going to pharmacy school or if you think pharmacy school is a joke because some schools are accepting students with 2.7 gpa and 40 PCAT...no biggie... most people are different; Some people understand the materials and are not good test takers, some are good at solving problems but cannot pass a test or an exams.....even with med schools and their high Gpa and MCAT scores....you find physicians who don't even know what their treating or what their doing, but they graduated from med school and they call themselves doctors or physicians......So final word is that if you think 1.) Pharmacy school is a joke 2.) Pharmacy school will put you in debt 3.) Pharmacy profession is saturated 4.) Pharmacy school accept low gpa and PCAT....Then you probably go into Law, medicine, PhD, engineering, computing, teaching, Accounting, Finance and other jobs that suits you, but DON'T DISCOURAGE POTENTIAL PHARMACISTS WITH YOU BOGUS STATS AND DEBT PROPAGANDA.....

 

[PharmtoCS]

looks like between many 'pre-pharmacy' students and not are having complete opposite view of job prospect. lol

"I'm going with pharmacy no matter what the reality may be and I and need every way to rationalize my decision."

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

Using a calculator to multiply annual tuition by 4 and adding in living expenses is a way of expressing debt propaganda? Citing the number of domestic pharmacy schools and its increased usage of satellite campus is a bogus stat? COOL STORY BRO.

Every profession is choked or saturated. More importantly every health care profession is saturated or choked; Nursing, medical doctors, pharmacist, e.t.c But as human beings we all make choices. Therefore if you think the pharmacy profession is saturated, don't discourage prospective applicants. If you love what you do, you will never worry about how much you are being paid. Yea...Yea...yea I know what you are thinking, but I believe investing in your education is the best investment you can make....so the debbie downers and their bogus stats, please SHUT UP!!!! if you are not going to pharmacy school or if you think pharmacy school is a joke because some schools are accepting students with 2.7 gpa and 40 PCAT...no biggie... most people are different; Some people understand the materials and are not good test takers, some are good at solving problems but cannot pass a test or an exams.....even with med schools and their high Gpa and MCAT scores....you find physicians who don't even know what their treating or what their doing, but they graduated from med school and they call themselves doctors or physicians......So final word is that if you think 1.) Pharmacy school is a joke 2.) Pharmacy school will put you in debt 3.) Pharmacy profession is saturated 4.) Pharmacy school accept low gpa and PCAT....Then you probably go into Law, medicine, PhD, engineering, computing, teaching, Accounting, Finance and other jobs that suits you, but DON'T DISCOURAGE POTENTIAL PHARMACISTS WITH YOU BOGUS STATS AND DEBT PROPAGANDA.....

 

[GuyJoe1987]

@PharmDCandidate2014 take a calculator and do the maths for med school, law school, nursing school, dentistry ....etc does it mean that people should not go to school or chase their dream....Cool story bro!!!!

 

[PharmtoCS]

@PharmDCandidate2014 take a calculator and do the maths for med school, law school, nursing school, dentistry ....etc does it mean that people should not go to school or chase their dream....Cool story bro!!!!

Does that mean someone should "chase their dream" and take out a $100k+ loan for an Ivy League degree in the liberal arts, even though the majority of the graduating class will end up in retail jobs that pay no more than $12/hour and don't even require a college degree?

Medicine and dentistry are not saturated like law, nursing, and pharmacy with the uncontrolled expansion in the latter professions. Therefore, the risk of graduating with $200k+ and unemployed are a lot lower. There are also other fields such as engineering, computers, and finance that are in demand, pay $100k+/year, and do not require you to graduate with $200k+ loans.

 

[Professor MoneyMaker]

looks like between many 'pre-pharmacy' students and not are having complete opposite view of job prospect. lol

Who do you recommend me to believe? I am so confused now reading these posts.

Every profession is choked or saturated. More importantly every health care profession is saturated or choked; Nursing, medical doctors, pharmacist, e.t.c But as human beings we all make choices. Therefore if you think the pharmacy profession is saturated, don't discourage prospective applicants. If you love what you do, you will never worry about how much you are being paid. Yea...Yea...yea I know what you are thinking, but I believe investing in your education is the best investment you can make....so the debbie downers and their bogus stats, please SHUT UP!!!! if you are not going to pharmacy school or if you think pharmacy school is a joke because some schools are accepting students with 2.7 gpa and 40 PCAT...no biggie... most people are different; Some people understand the materials and are not good test takers, some are good at solving problems but cannot pass a test or an exams.....even with med schools and their high Gpa and MCAT scores....you find physicians who don't even know what their treating or what their doing, but they graduated from med school and they call themselves doctors or physicians......So final word is that if you think 1.) Pharmacy school is a joke 2.) Pharmacy school will put you in debt 3.) Pharmacy profession is saturated 4.) Pharmacy school accept low gpa and PCAT....Then you probably go into Law, medicine, PhD, engineering, computing, teaching, Accounting, Finance and other jobs that suits you, but DON'T DISCOURAGE POTENTIAL PHARMACISTS WITH YOU BOGUS STATS AND DEBT PROPAGANDA.....

I am worried and undecided for pharmacy schools now and would like to hear more opinions from the people who decided to go in pharmacy. I have some questions for you: could you please tell me your thought process on how you decided to pursue pharmacy? what are the rewards and what are the risks? what is your plan to compete for pharmacist jobs in a saturated market? what is your backup plan if you graduate pharmacy school and it does not work out? Thank you very much.

 

[GuyJoe1987]

@Professor MoneyMaker and whoever is reading this post. Don't let someone's opinion about pharmacy school affect whatever you want to be in life. There were people who were convinced in the 90's that pharmacy was no good because more schools are opening up or they will graduate with low salaries or too much loans or debt or will be unemployed, but are actually happy that they chose pharmacy. I can assure you that you can come back to this post in 10 years time and people will still be saying the same thing all over again; pharmacy is saturated, being in debt after pharmacy and so forth. If you listen to these people, you will never do what you love to do (in case you love to work as a pharmacist). You see, when people talk about pharmacy, 99% of the time they think its just retail (where most of the money is ), but there are several options to having a career in pharmacy. With PharmD u can go in academics, Insurance, public health, hospital, poison control, Law, research, government, nuclear and a plethora of specialization or uncharted grounds. So why listen to people if u have a passion for pharmacy? If pharmacy is your deal, stick to it. Medical students are graduating with >200k plus lost salaries in internship , residency and fellowship yet they still do what they love. Last time I checked AMCAS, there were 141 medical schools with over 25 schools that opened between 2000-2015 (Central Michigan University Medical school being the latest addition) and other developing school that are going to be opening soon. And if every medical school is graduating averagely 100 or <100 students each year, there will be (100x141) =14,100 or about 13ooo graduates out there. How many get internship, jobs , residency and fellowship right after they graduate or after the 6 months grace period they have to start repaying their loans. Does the healthcare industry provide over 10,000 jobs for the med school graduates each year and beyond? Therefore it comes down to your passion and what you are willing to lose. If i graduate with +150k over 4 years in debt and I am earning averagely 90k over 10-15 years practicing pharmacy, is it not worth it more than listening to these people crying over debt and saturation . Man, SATURATION IS EVERYWHERE, Do what u love (if pharmacy). Forget the Nay sayers cos you will never be successful

 

[Professor MoneyMaker]

@Professor MoneyMaker and whoever is reading this post. Don't let someone's opinion about pharmacy school affect whatever you want to be in life. There were people who were convinced in the 90's that pharmacy was no good because more schools are opening up or they will graduate with low salaries or too much loans or debt or will be unemployed, but are actually happy that they chose pharmacy. I can assure you that you can come back to this post in 10 years time and people will still be saying the same thing all over again; pharmacy is saturated, being in debt after pharmacy and so forth. If you listen to these people, you will never do what you love to do (in case you love to work as a pharmacist). You see, when people talk about pharmacy, 99% of the time they think its just retail (where most of the money is ), but there are several options to having a career in pharmacy. With PharmD u can go in academics, Insurance, public health, hospital, poison control, Law, research, government, nuclear and a plethora of specialization or uncharted grounds. So why listen to people if u have a passion for pharmacy? If pharmacy is your deal, stick to it. Medical students are graduating with >200k plus lost salaries in internship , residency and fellowship yet they still do what they love. Last time I checked AMCAS, there were 141 medical schools with over 25 schools that opened between 2000-2015 (Central Michigan University Medical school being the latest addition) and other developing school that are going to be opening soon. And if every medical school is graduating averagely 100 or <100 students each year, there will be (100x141) =14,100 or about 13ooo graduates out there. How many get internship, jobs , residency and fellowship right after they graduate or after the 6 months grace period they have to start repaying their loans. Does the healthcare industry provide over 10,000 jobs for the med school graduates each year and beyond? Therefore it comes down to your passion and what you are willing to lose. If i graduate with +150k over 4 years in debt and I am earning averagely 90k over 10-15 years practicing pharmacy, is it not worth it more than listening to these people crying over debt and saturation . Man, SATURATION IS EVERYWHERE, Do what u love (if pharmacy). Forget the Nay sayers cos you will never be successful

Thank you very much for the reply. I think you answer my first and second questions. Whatt is your plan to compete for jobs and what is your backup plan in case pharmacy does not work out? I need as much as information and insight from people who decide to pursue pharmacy to make a case for myself.

 

[GuyJoe1987]

@Professor MoneyMaker and anyone reading this post, if you are going into pharmacy, STICK TO YOUR GUNS!!!!.... Forget the Nay sayers!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PharmtoCS]

@Professor MoneyMaker and anyone reading this post, if you are going into pharmacy, STICK TO YOUR GUNS!!!!.... Forget the Nay sayers!!!!!!!!!!!

Would you advise doing that when buying a house or car?

 

[Bluesky22]

I started my application for pharmacy school this fall put it off 2 years because I wanted to finish an undergraduate degree just in case I dont get in. When I was applying for schools I was mainly worried about getting the test done, recommendation letters, and personal statement. Half way through all that was checking the websites to find out how i will compare then BAM saturation. Too many schools, to many students, too many everything.

You are advising people to not go which is right in its own terms because yes there are too many schools (there are some colleges who have two campuses why they need them is beyond reasoning) and once everyone graduates it doesnt matter whose the better student, whose compassionate, or w.e. But when you start making jokes about the 2.7 gpa and 40 pcat ppl getting accepted your point becomes mute. I wonder why they are getting accepted maybe because the 3.9 students decided I dont want to take a risk so of course with a pool of applicants the 2.7 with e.c that are to the max will look better because you scared away the other ppl.

Your making jokes on the internet but go to interview day and see the 19 year old bright eyed kid whose nervous about his turn or the pharmacy technician whose been working for 10 years. I wonder if you as practicing pharmacists signed the change petition going around, did you email the ACPE about all these schools opening or are you just being pigheaded to students on SDN screaming about the sky is falling and laughing at what they consider a triumph good job guys good job way to go.

 

[GuyJoe1987]

@Bluesky22 leave these downers to drown in their own kool aid......10 years from now, they will back on SDN trying to persuade ppl not to go into pharmacy because of debt, loans, saturation and jobs....it will be the same convo all over again. If you have passion for something, go for it. FORGET THESE NAY SAYERS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Professor MoneyMaker]

Your making jokes on the internet but go to interview day and see the 19 year old bright eyed kid whose nervous about his turn or the pharmacy technician whose been working for 10 years. I wonder if you as practicing pharmacists signed the change petition going around, did you email the ACPE about all these schools opening or are you just being pigheaded to students on SDN screaming about the sky is falling and laughing at what they consider a triumph good job guys good job way to go.

I wondered the same as well. But I did a search last night to see if anybody had done anything and found that many had tried to petition ACPE before. The problem is ACPE said that they would not stop all these school openings for various reasons.



http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-to-to-pharmacy-school.1039894/#post-16139541

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ry-on-job-outlook.884279/page-5#post-16139538

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/pharmacy-job-market-outlook.639184/page-56#post-16139477

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-what-should-i-do-now.1018997/#post-16139573

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-pre-pharmacy-students.1036379/#post-16139567

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-what-should-i-do-now.1018997/#post-16139573

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-as-a-pharmacist.1067452/page-4#post-16139566

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...acist-job-market.1042940/page-2#post-16139549


http://forums.studentdoctor.net/search/6982485/?q=petition acpe pharmacy email&o=relevance&c[node]=54

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...he-acpe-leave-pharmacy.1077650/#post-15325463

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-leave-pharmacy.1077650/page-2#post-15384467

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...he-acpe-leave-pharmacy.1077650/#post-15325530


so if I decided to go in pharmacy, I would have to trust that God will find a solution for us and we might come out ok at the end.

 

[Bluesky22]

I feel the same way I read the horror stories and saw some links and I'm still on the fence if i wanna do this. Will I be able to pay off my loans I mean for every 100k you will have to pay back 1k each month. At minimum wage that's like your whole paycheck for 10 years. I just hope things go right or if it doesn't I'm able to find a job. I'm in new york and there's another school opening here do we need another school ..no does the Dean or the governor who funded it see that of course not cause this is a lucrative career where everyone finds a job.

 

[littleowl]

I think if you choose pharmacy as a career path at this point you better have an excellent reason for it. I say this only because higher education has become a cash cow for this country, as is evident by the number of schools petitioning for their Pharm.D programs. There are still very prestigious programs that are educating doctoral candidates but the vast majority of the newer (<30 successful graduating classes) programs are designed to siphon easy money from the government in the form of student loans. Those schools don't care what happens to you as long as you graduate on time and pass the NAPLEX in your first go because it pads their resume. It should scare you that many institutions have to PAY for rotation sites. It's good to see some of the prospective candidates exhibiting some skepticism and caution before jumping in blindly. I love pharmacy and I do not regret my choice for a single second. I would choose this path again in a heartbeat but that doesn't mean that I don't have any reservations about the future. My husband and I live like peasants while we sink as much as possible into eliminating his loans and making interest payments on mine. I stay in contact with my former pharmacists and co-workers regularly and keep a professional and courteous attitude at my current interning job too just in case I need to reach out to my network in the future. I will graduate with very little debt but MANY of my classmates are drowning in it because they've made poor financial choices and most of them had no prior pharmacy work experience so they become distraught and depressed when considering that they will most likely be working in a retail setting after graduation. Please choose wisely pre-pharmers because this line of work is not for everyone. Best of luck to all.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

I feel the same way I read the horror stories and saw some links and I'm still on the fence if i wanna do this. Will I be able to pay off my loans I mean for every 100k you will have to pay back 1k each month. At minimum wage that's like your whole paycheck for 10 years. I just hope things go right or if it doesn't I'm able to find a job. I'm in new york and there's another school opening here do we need another school ..no does the Dean or the governor who funded it see that of course not cause this is a lucrative career where everyone finds a job.

If you can grab an internship with a retail chain or hospital/institution fairly quickly in your first year of pharmacy school, then I'd say go for it. The longer you don't have an internship as pharmacy school goes by, the farther behind you will be compared to the students who do have them and the more work you have to do in order to catch up.

Also having that internship can pay for your living expenses, which can cut down on the amount of loans you need to take out.

 

[68quebec]

I think if you choose pharmacy as a career path at this point you better have an excellent reason for it. I say this only because higher education has become a cash cow for this country, as is evident by the number of schools petitioning for their Pharm.D programs. There are still very prestigious programs that are educating doctoral candidates but the vast majority of the newer (<30 successful graduating classes) programs are designed to siphon easy money from the government in the form of student loans. Those schools don't care what happens to you as long as you graduate on time and pass the NAPLEX in your first go because it pads their resume. It should scare you that many institutions have to PAY for rotation sites. It's good to see some of the prospective candidates exhibiting some skepticism and caution before jumping in blindly. I love pharmacy and I do not regret my choice for a single second. I would choose this path again in a heartbeat but that doesn't mean that I don't have any reservations about the future. My husband and I live like peasants while we sink as much as possible into eliminating his loans and making interest payments on mine. I stay in contact with my former pharmacists and co-workers regularly and keep a professional and courteous attitude at my current interning job too just in case I need to reach out to my network in the future. I will graduate with very little debt but MANY of my classmates are drowning in it because they've made poor financial choices and most of them had no prior pharmacy work experience so they become distraught and depressed when considering that they will most likely be working in a retail setting after graduation. Please choose wisely pre-pharmers because this line of work is not for everyone. Best of luck to all.

Perfect role model. Have as little debt as possible by the time graduating is the key point in this time now.

 

[O.State]

Perfect role model. Have as little debt as possible by the time graduating is the key point in this time now.

How? Im genuinely curious about how to do it. Any advice? I should probably ask littleowl how she did it

@littleowl ....how did you manage such low debt burden? more grants? more scholarships?

 

[O.State]

If you can grab an internship with a retail chain or hospital/institution fairly quickly in your first year of pharmacy school, then I'd say go for it. The longer you don't have an internship as pharmacy school goes by, the farther behind you will be compared to the students who do have them and the more work you have to do in order to catch up.

Also having that internship can pay for your living expenses, which can cut down on the amount of loans you need to take out.

What if you are a pharm tech that has gotten approval/guarantee to be transitioned into intern once your in school? Is that a safe bet...

 

[PharmtoCS]

How? Im genuinely curious about how to do it. Any advice? I should probably ask littleowl how she did it

@littleowl ....how did you manage such low debt burden? more grants? more scholarships?

Choose a school with low tuition in an area with low cost of living. Don't be too picky about region and environment.

I have heard of someone who even moved to a state with very low in-state tuition, established residency, and applied to the schools there.

 

[fewaopi]

Would you advise doing that when buying a house or car?

for some strange reason a lot of people (not just prepharmers but everyone) do a lot more research into spending money on car, computer, gadget, clothes, food, restaurants than researching on a career for likely to be most of your life. making a career decision has many intangibles and people hope on those intangibles going into their favor.

I think if you choose pharmacy as a career path at this point you better have an excellent reason for it. I say this only because higher education has become a cash cow for this country, as is evident by the number of schools petitioning for their Pharm.D programs. There are still very prestigious programs that are educating doctoral candidates but the vast majority of the newer (<30 successful graduating classes) programs are designed to siphon easy money from the government in the form of student loans. Those schools don't care what happens to you as long as you graduate on time and pass the NAPLEX in your first go because it pads their resume. It should scare you that many institutions have to PAY for rotation sites. It's good to see some of the prospective candidates exhibiting some skepticism and caution before jumping in blindly. I love pharmacy and I do not regret my choice for a single second. I would choose this path again in a heartbeat but that doesn't mean that I don't have any reservations about the future. My husband and I live like peasants while we sink as much as possible into eliminating his loans and making interest payments on mine. I stay in contact with my former pharmacists and co-workers regularly and keep a professional and courteous attitude at my current interning job too just in case I need to reach out to my network in the future. I will graduate with very little debt but MANY of my classmates are drowning in it because they've made poor financial choices and most of them had no prior pharmacy work experience so they become distraught and depressed when considering that they will most likely be working in a retail setting after graduation. Please choose wisely pre-pharmers because this line of work is not for everyone. Best of luck to all.

very well said and i think it speaks for all pharmacists. one should always question or at least not just blindly jump into something with eyes closed, ears shut yelling "la la la la can't hear you i'm gonna make 6 figures with a 2.5 gpa don't need to stand out or where i'll go imma be rich and so on" of course not all prepharmers are like this, i hope it's an exaggeration. you wouldn't just blindly sign up a car loan, house mortgage right? you'd read, do research, read the fine print. same with other real expensive purchases. prepharmers arent unique in this regard. you see many people wanting to be a doctor, dentist but aren't cut out for it. only difference is with pharmacy you actually don't, it's pretty easy to get admitted into A pharmacy school. and many schools are siphoning off federal loans, taking advantage of veterans especially. i know newly opened pharmacy schools really like veterans because of the federal money they provide to the school and the fed (all of our tax dollars) go into it.

everybody has to do research when making a big decision. do research into the field, what is the area you want to work like in terms of job market, what are the trends? what are pharmacists saying (doesn't have to be us ask real people) what are P4's, others saying, look through the threads on SDN, there are quite a few suffering now from saturation and it's not just the same people talking about it. in licensing, pharmacy subforums there's a lot of talk about it. older threads were mostly predictions but more and more recent ones are actual stories, real people losing or not finding work. go to other sites like indeed, reddit, a lot of pharmacists know these facts already but some prepharmers have no idea or the completely wrong idea. some prepharmers understand the situation well and know the risks they are taking and that the odds are more stacked against them than previous classes. in turn they are better prepared and know what to do with a clear mindset and are willing to go the extra mile to make it in the profession. many others simply aren't good enough or didn't do what was necessary to compete in a tougher labor market.

a lot of it is unfortunately down to luck. college grads in 2009-10 had it the worst. a couple years later 2013-14 you had it much better. sometimes it's the times we're born into and we can't control that and it's just rotten luck which sucks balls but it's the truth.

and it's okay to have reservations about pharmacy based off actual data, news reports. people have reservations about a lot of things. like hmm you probably too drunk to drive or you probably shouldn't buy that, or you probably should not marry her. it means you're careful which is what i'd want in a pharmacist which more and more prepharmers don't seem to have. and who would you rather have as a surgeon or pharmacist, the 4.0 or 2.5 student? the one who went the extra miles to know their pharmacy knowledge or the one looking just for 6 figures and an easy life and a mythical guaranteed job. that's why you should really love the field and the only way to know that is by interning or working in it which surprisingly some don't have. those students then feel like crap cause they have little choice to go anywhere but retail cause they didn't work hard for a residency or w/e.

the right way to approach this is to work harder. if you are a good student do more. but if you are a poor quality student who depends on a predatory school's "holistic" review to come up with any excuse to let you in a non-traditional pathway despite you not being prepared for course material but don't worry our school isn't that difficult though we have to pay for rotation sites which means practice sites hate our students so much we have to pay them for them to have free labor then yeah you gotta a lot of work to do on yourself. you know it's pretty rational to tell people to actually research the field they want to do for the rest of their life. it's just the average american student feels their special, wants quick money, quick satisfaction and little effort. those kinds of people don't belong in healthcare but the admission is lower now so more and more are and the students who'd make great pharmacists would rather do something where the students are a bit more respectable

littleowl is a perfect example of what you should be doing. saving money for paying back the debt, not indulging in luxuries but tackling that debt. her/his financial habits are a good example for all Americans and students, not just prepharmers as the system of payment is similar in all fields. networking, staying in touch, working, getting experience, to me littleowl seems like someone who has done a lot to prepare for a pharmacy career and can make it because he/she knows it's tough and so he/she works hard and does what he/she can to make it. others as we all know have no experience, some don't even speak english, some are just not prepared at all. littleowl will have a better finances as well because eliminating debt quickly means more money enters her pocket/savings sooner and growing nest egg. quite a few prepharmers and in reality a lot of american students not just prepharmers don't have littleowl's good habits. sorry kinda assumed you were a girl, correct me if i'm wrong.

I feel the same way I read the horror stories and saw some links and I'm still on the fence if i wanna do this. Will I be able to pay off my loans I mean for every 100k you will have to pay back 1k each month. At minimum wage that's like your whole paycheck for 10 years. I just hope things go right or if it doesn't I'm able to find a job. I'm in new york and there's another school opening here do we need another school ..no does the Dean or the governor who funded it see that of course not cause this is a lucrative career where everyone finds a job.

well nyc does suck right now, pretty bad. definitely do research into other states and be willing to move, otherwise you'll have a real tough time. in new york alone i think there's touro, liu, st johns, then there's nearby rutgers, pcp, then uconn, buffalo, albany, wegmans and probably more i forgot. oh wait fdu just opened too. and there's probably more in the works. all those current grads have a harder time finding work, don't want to imagine what it's like in 4 years.

 

[littleowl]

@O.State The Cliffs Notes version looks something like this...I did my prerequisite courses at a community college and received grants so no debt there. While I was taking classes I worked full-time as a certified pharmacy tech, first for CVS and then for a large hospital system. I'm not a fussy high-maintenance gal and I love to cook so we bought groceries once a month and I would fill the freezer with meals. Our budget was tiny! I worked and paid the bills while my husband was in pharmacy school and we worked the same weekends for the same hospital so it was nice We paid his interest payments while he was in school then when he graduated, I started. We repeated the same strategy with my loans while every single extra dime goes to his loan total twice a month. I managed to snag some pretty sweet scholarships and grants but I also stayed in-state too. My advice? BUDGET! Try taking stoichiometrist's advice and stay in-state if possible because my tuition is very reasonable after financial aid is applied. Another cute little trick I use is to work and save a lump cash sum all semester (or all summer) and apply it to the outright tuition cost before any loans are applied. Think of it like a down payment so that your overall principle financed through the loan servicer is smaller. I hope this info was useful to you. If you have questions, I (and many others in this forum) will be happy to help in any way I can. Cheers!

 

[68quebec]

@O.State The Cliffs Notes version looks something like this...I did my prerequisite courses at a community college and received grants so no debt there. While I was taking classes I worked full-time as a certified pharmacy tech, first for CVS and then for a large hospital system. I'm not a fussy high-maintenance gal and I love to cook so we bought groceries once a month and I would fill the freezer with meals. Our budget was tiny! I worked and paid the bills while my husband was in pharmacy school and we worked the same weekends for the same hospital so it was nice We paid his interest payments while he was in school then when he graduated, I started. We repeated the same strategy with my loans while every single extra dime goes to his loan total twice a month. I managed to snag some pretty sweet scholarships and grants but I also stayed in-state too. My advice? BUDGET! Try taking stoichiometrist's advice and stay in-state if possible because my tuition is very reasonable after financial aid is applied. Another cute little trick I use is to work and save a lump cash sum all semester (or all summer) and apply it to the outright tuition cost before any loans are applied. Think of it like a down payment so that your overall principle financed through the loan servicer is smaller. I hope this info was useful to you. If you have questions, I (and many others in this forum) will be happy to help in any way I can. Cheers!

Oh my dear, your advice is what everyone in this forum should read... Too many people has tendency of " I'll start pay off student loan once i graduate' then start spending as much as they want. Remember, with all the interest and principals of student loan, you can even buy a house (of course not in NYC or bay area though)!! Think this way !

 

[Sugoi Travis]

What if you are a pharm tech that has gotten approval/guarantee to be transitioned into intern once your in school? Is that a safe bet...

For the most part, yes. However just keep in the back of your mind that nothing in life is guaranteed.

 

[SClENCE]

I could go put in an application to the local gas station or McDonald's and not be guaranteed employment; as I will still be competing with other applicants. Maybe pharmacy was a 100% job offer years ago, but just because there is competition doesn't mean there is currently saturation. CVS is always hiring

Hopefully all my classmates will be too busy fighting over a residency hospital job while I snag that higher salary in retail hehehehe

 

[pharmnewbie123]

I could go put in an application to the local gas station or McDonald's and not be guaranteed employment; as I will still be competing with other applicants. Maybe pharmacy was a 100% job offer years ago, but just because there is competition doesn't mean there is currently saturation. CVS is always hiring

Hopefully all my classmates will be too busy fighting over a residency hospital job while I snag that higher salary in retail hehehehe

You know that CVS/Walgreens basically recruits at every single pharmacy school, right? Especially the newly accredited schools. All they want is a pulse and a license.

 

[SClENCE]

You know that CVS/Walgreens basically recruits at every single pharmacy school, right? Especially the newly accredited schools. All they want is a pulse and a license.

Obviously... why else would I state that "CVS is always hiring"?

 

[bverrett]

Only one metric was used to create this thread: pharmacy school tuition prices from 2012-2013. http://www.aacp.org/resources/student/pharmacyforyou/admissions/admissionrequirements/Documents/Table 11.pdf

Also, remember to factor years of tuition of 3 year schools vs 4 year schools. I left 3 year schools off the top 10 list since there can be a significant variance in financials when the cost of living, accrued interest, and extra year of salary are accounted for.

Also, remember that these tuition prices are now a couple years outdated This list is not in exact order of tuition and fees-- these costs have some variation, and they are now 2 years out of date. All of these schools are approaching 0r exceeding 40k/year in tuition plus fees.

1. USC college of pharmacy. Most expensive pharmacy school in the country. Do you really get paid more for having an expensive diploma? ~47k (FYI, now exceeds 50k)


HELP!
I am being assassinated by Loma Linda University and or it's affiliates or those they contracted with to carry out the above order.
I am submitting this complaint to abate my financial woes due to severe discrimination based on my skin color.
It is pertinent that this war between Dean Billy Hughes and LLU School of Pharmacy administration and affiliates of Loma Linda University vs Brian Solomon Verrett end in a mutually agreed settlement to cover for real physical damage to my person in their continual effort to target me for unemployment. Everytime I approach sitting for licensure harassment from the aforesaid perpetuators intensifies in the form of a military signal/pulsating weaponry used to leave me breathless, and electronic harassment(e.g., shutting my computer off, blocking my keystrokes, weird phone calls, blocking phone calls, obstruction of justice e.g., Johnny Cochran firm) to literally force me out of performing for licensure as a pharmacist. Loma Linda's response to the above is that, "We/I graduated him 5 years ago" or words to that effect." They (LLU) also may state that He did not pass his boards." Based on their extreme, barbaric mistreatment towards me and testimony of other students that, "they will continue to mistreat you even after graduation as a graduate of their program", their is high certainty they interfered with the integrity of my past examinations for licensure to ensure a non-pass. The aforesaid statement(s) is used to divert investigation of their heinous acts against me which will ultimately lead to my untimely death. The goal of the diversion is to impress to others, including law enforcement (game of entrapment, they like to sick law enforcement on people especially those of my race) that they are oblivious to my calamity due to their draconian and racially hostile military-like acts. This has been an ongoing battle that has waged for years and could end in mortality if you decide not to bind together protection for Dr. Brian Solomon Verrett so that I will have safe passage within our community and communities abroad as a loving and giving moving spirit of hope, representation of academia and a warrior spirit. Please act now to prevent the loss of my life, honesty, and willingness by my part to proceed nonviolently when met by great odds and adversity.
Note: Dr. Eric J. Mack, Associate Dean of Loma Linda University School of Pharmacy, stated that "Brian Verrett, if you do not quit your job with your current employer, you will not graduate from Loma Linda University School of Pharmacy." or words to that effect (targeting me for unemployment)
Dr. Willie Davis: "Brian, what they do is target you!" or words to that effect
Dr. Billy Hughes: "At least we know that, he (Brian) doesn't like it when his buttons are pushed(Loma Linda University has an insatiable appetite when it comes to mistreating me, Brian Verrett)!" or words to that effect
NAACP member, San Bernadino, Ca. " What they do(Loma Linda University) is keep pushing you and pushing you!"
Dr. Naomi Florea: "Brian, they mistreat their own students!"
Dr. Naomi Florea: "Brian, they like setting traps, traps, traps (game of entrapment)!"
Respectfully submitted,
Dr. Brian Solomon Verrett B.S., PharmD
2005- Admitted to Boston University Henry Goldman School of Dentistry and Marquette School of Dentistry. Interviewed by UCSF School of Dentistry
Specific examples of their draconian processes against me can shown to you, the recipient, by personally interviewing me.
I need all tuition paid by me to Loma Linda University refunded to me. A license from the California Board of Pharmacy. A monetary settlement to cover damages to my person. Reinstatement to my former employer and any jobs I have applied and tested for, etc.


2. Western- Right up there with USC. Why would you pay for a 4-year school that has higher tuition rates than just about every single 3-year program?

3. Duquesne-- 40k annual tution puts in the clear avoid category

4. Ohio Northern-- 40k

5. Northeastern-- ~40k

6. Western New England-- ~38k

7. Touro-CA-- ~40k

8. Loma Linda-- 40k

9. A&M Schwartz-- ~39k

10. Regis-- ~37k

Honorable mention

a. University of Pacific-- combined tuition and fees for this 3-year program is $182,196 (as of 2014).

Accrued Interest

Graduate loans are unsubsidized. You will accrue interest on all loans throughout school. You must account for this total when you calculate how much you will owe after school.

Use this calculator: http://www.collegeloanconsultant.com/accrued-interest-calculator.html

If a student at USC takes out 50k each year for tuition at 6.8%, and they have a 6-month grace period there interest accrued on tuition alone will be ~$41,429. That means that tuition plus interest, at USC, will cost ~$240,000. This does not factor in cost of living, or interest accrued on cost of living. It also does not factor in tuition increases, or the cost of deferment via 1-2 years of residency.

Using USC's own price estimate for cost of living: the total cost for 4-years would be $313,764. The total cost with interest accrued would be: ~$378,700!

Obviously 3-year schools have a big advantage over 4-year schools in the accrued interest category.

Student Loan Payment Calculator
Use a student loan calculator to predict your monthly payment after graduation. Here is one possible calculator:

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi

Lets take the total costs accrued at USC (using USC's own figures) to determine an average monthly payment. For a 10-year loan, the average monthly payment on $378,700 is: $4,358.78!

If you go to USC College of Pharmacy will you be able to afford a student loan payment of $4,358.78? Probably not, considering that most pharmacists only have about 6-7k of take-home pay monthly (120k annual salary= 10k/month gross= 6-7/month net).

Ok, so we have determined that most pharmacists won't be able to afford the 10-year payment. Another option is a 20-year payment. For 20-years, the monthly payment will be $2,891.22. No big deal right? Only slightly less than half your pay going to student loans for the next 20 years.

Take-home point

Run the numbers! This is your personal business plan. Your situation will vary based on where you live.

One possible strategy: Cross all of the schools that exceed 25-30k in annual tuition off of your prospective list. Target all of the cheapest pharmacy schools in the country. Also factor in cost of living. If you can live in a dirt-cheap area, all the better. Apply to all of these more affordable schools-- figure out a way to get in-state tuition if you can. Attend the best price school with the best fit.

As a prospective pharmacy student, nothing is more important than your future financial freedom. If you disagree, then why are you going to pharmacy school in the first place? Don't take out medical-school like debt for a career that doesn't pay you like a doctor.

Most important of all: If you can't find a financial situation that works for you then don't go to pharmacy school!

 

[bverrett]

Only one metric was used to create this thread: pharmacy school tuition prices from 2012-2013. http://www.aacp.org/resources/student/pharmacyforyou/admissions/admissionrequirements/Documents/Table 11.pdf

Also, remember to factor years of tuition of 3 year schools vs 4 year schools. I left 3 year schools off the top 10 list since there can be a significant variance in financials when the cost of living, accrued interest, and extra year of salary are accounted for.

Also, remember that these tuition prices are now a couple years outdated This list is not in exact order of tuition and fees-- these costs have some variation, and they are now 2 years out of date. All of these schools are approaching 0r exceeding 40k/year in tuition plus fees.

1. USC college of pharmacy. Most expensive pharmacy school in the country. Do you really get paid more for having an expensive diploma? ~47k (FYI, now exceeds 50k)

HELP!
I am being assassinated by Loma Linda University and or it's affiliates or those they contracted with to carry out the above order.
I am submitting this complaint to abate my financial woes due to severe discrimination based on my skin color.
It is pertinent that this war between Dean Billy Hughes and LLU School of Pharmacy administration and affiliates of Loma Linda University vs Brian Solomon Verrett end in a mutually agreed settlement to cover for real physical damage to my person in their continual effort to target me for unemployment. Everytime I approach sitting for licensure harassment from the aforesaid perpetuators intensifies in the form of a military signal/pulsating weaponry used to leave me breathless, and electronic harassment(e.g., shutting my computer off, blocking my keystrokes, weird phone calls, blocking phone calls, obstruction of justice e.g., Johnny Cochran firm) to literally force me out of performing for licensure as a pharmacist. Loma Linda's response to the above is that, "We/I graduated him 5 years ago" or words to that effect." They (LLU) also may state that He did not pass his boards." Based on their extreme, barbaric mistreatment towards me and testimony of other students that, "they will continue to mistreat you even after graduation as a graduate of their program", their is high certainty they interfered with the integrity of my past examinations for licensure to ensure a non-pass. The aforesaid statement(s) is used to divert investigation of their heinous acts against me which will ultimately lead to my untimely death. The goal of the diversion is to impress to others, including law enforcement (game of entrapment, they like to sick law enforcement on people especially those of my race) that they are oblivious to my calamity due to their draconian and racially hostile military-like acts. This has been an ongoing battle that has waged for years and could end in mortality if you decide not to bind together protection for Dr. Brian Solomon Verrett so that I will have safe passage within our community and communities abroad as a loving and giving moving spirit of hope, representation of academia and a warrior spirit. Please act now to prevent the loss of my life, honesty, and willingness by my part to proceed nonviolently when met by great odds and adversity.
Note: Dr. Eric J. Mack, Associate Dean of Loma Linda University School of Pharmacy, stated that "Brian Verrett, if you do not quit your job with your current employer, you will not graduate from Loma Linda University School of Pharmacy." or words to that effect (targeting me for unemployment)
Dr. Willie Davis: "Brian, what they do is target you!" or words to that effect
Dr. Billy Hughes: "At least we know that, he (Brian) doesn't like it when his buttons are pushed(Loma Linda University has an insatiable appetite when it comes to mistreating me, Brian Verrett)!" or words to that effect
NAACP member, San Bernadino, Ca. " What they do(Loma Linda University) is keep pushing you and pushing you!"
Dr. Naomi Florea: "Brian, they mistreat their own students!"
Dr. Naomi Florea: "Brian, they like setting traps, traps, traps (game of entrapment)!"
Respectfully submitted,
Dr. Brian Solomon Verrett B.S., PharmD
2005- Admitted to Boston University Henry Goldman School of Dentistry and Marquette School of Dentistry. Interviewed by UCSF School of Dentistry
Specific examples of their draconian processes against me can shown to you, the recipient, by personally interviewing me.
I need all tuition paid by me to Loma Linda University refunded to me. A license from the California Board of Pharmacy. A monetary settlement to cover damages to my person. Reinstatement to my former employer and any jobs I have applied and tested for, etc.




2. Western- Right up there with USC. Why would you pay for a 4-year school that has higher tuition rates than just about every single 3-year program?

3. Duquesne-- 40k annual tution puts in the clear avoid category

4. Ohio Northern-- 40k

5. Northeastern-- ~40k

6. Western New England-- ~38k

7. Touro-CA-- ~40k

8. Loma Linda-- 40k

9. A&M Schwartz-- ~39k

10. Regis-- ~37k

Honorable mention

a. University of Pacific-- combined tuition and fees for this 3-year program is $182,196 (as of 2014).

Accrued Interest

Graduate loans are unsubsidized. You will accrue interest on all loans throughout school. You must account for this total when you calculate how much you will owe after school.

Use this calculator: http://www.collegeloanconsultant.com/accrued-interest-calculator.html

If a student at USC takes out 50k each year for tuition at 6.8%, and they have a 6-month grace period there interest accrued on tuition alone will be ~$41,429. That means that tuition plus interest, at USC, will cost ~$240,000. This does not factor in cost of living, or interest accrued on cost of living. It also does not factor in tuition increases, or the cost of deferment via 1-2 years of residency.

Using USC's own price estimate for cost of living: the total cost for 4-years would be $313,764. The total cost with interest accrued would be: ~$378,700!

Obviously 3-year schools have a big advantage over 4-year schools in the accrued interest category.

Student Loan Payment Calculator
Use a student loan calculator to predict your monthly payment after graduation. Here is one possible calculator:

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi

Lets take the total costs accrued at USC (using USC's own figures) to determine an average monthly payment. For a 10-year loan, the average monthly payment on $378,700 is: $4,358.78!

If you go to USC College of Pharmacy will you be able to afford a student loan payment of $4,358.78? Probably not, considering that most pharmacists only have about 6-7k of take-home pay monthly (120k annual salary= 10k/month gross= 6-7/month net).

Ok, so we have determined that most pharmacists won't be able to afford the 10-year payment. Another option is a 20-year payment. For 20-years, the monthly payment will be $2,891.22. No big deal right? Only slightly less than half your pay going to student loans for the next 20 years.

Take-home point

Run the numbers! This is your personal business plan. Your situation will vary based on where you live.

One possible strategy: Cross all of the schools that exceed 25-30k in annual tuition off of your prospective list. Target all of the cheapest pharmacy schools in the country. Also factor in cost of living. If you can live in a dirt-cheap area, all the better. Apply to all of these more affordable schools-- figure out a way to get in-state tuition if you can. Attend the best price school with the best fit.

As a prospective pharmacy student, nothing is more important than your future financial freedom. If you disagree, then why are you going to pharmacy school in the first place? Don't take out medical-school like debt for a career that doesn't pay you like a doctor.

Most important of all: If you can't find a financial situation that works for you then don't go to pharmacy school!

 

[SClENCE]

14% projected job growth is 41,400 pharmacists over the next 10 years, or 4,140 new jobs created each year. About 14,000-15,000 students graduate from pharmacy schools each year. That is over 3x the number of expected job openings!

There is a projected job GROWTH of 41k pharmacists, with... say 141k new pharmacists. But the figure of 14% growth does not account for pharmacists that go into retirement, this figure is simply the number of new positions that will be available. So in the next 10 years 100k pharmacists need to retire for supply to meet demand. There are currently around 300k pharmacists in the USA. So in the next 10 years 1/3 of them would need to retire. For supply to meet demand.

Though this may or may not happen, the severity of this situation was overstated in your post.

This isn't to mention the idea that pharmacists could end up handling warfarin tests/managing diabetics/etc potentially creating even more jobs. Chains will certainly push this if they can bill for it.

 

[PharmtoCS]

There is a projected job GROWTH of 41k pharmacists, with... say 141k new pharmacists. But the figure of 14% growth does not account for pharmacists that go into retirement, this figure is simply the number of new positions that will be available. So in the next 10 years 100k pharmacists need to retire for supply to meet demand. There are currently around 300k pharmacists in the USA. So in the next 10 years 1/3 of them would need to retire. For supply to meet demand.

Though this may or may not happen, the severity of this situation was overstated in your post.

This isn't to mention the idea that pharmacists could end up handling warfarin tests/managing diabetics/etc potentially creating even more jobs. Chains will certainly push this if they can bill for it.

There has been talk of pharmacists retiring and being able to manage warfarin, diabetes, etc. since a decade ago. Back then it was called MTM; now it is called provider status. These points and the projection of pharmacists retiring have been pushed to justify the massive expansion of pharmacy schools. Pharmacists haven't retired at the expected rate, few non-dispensing roles have been created, and schools continue to open with no end in sight. There is also the threat of automation which could reduce or even reverse job growth.

I believe that the job market will improve eventually, but the question is when. It could be a good 20+ years before demand meets supply again. It will likely get a lot worse in coming years before it gets better as more schools take $150k+ from graduates and subsequently dump them into the Pharmacist Workforce Hunger Games.

 

[SClENCE]

There has been talk of pharmacists retiring and being able to manage warfarin, diabetes, etc. since a decade ago. Back then it was called MTM; now it is called provider status. These points and the projection of pharmacists retiring have been pushed to justify the massive expansion of pharmacy schools. Pharmacists haven't retired at the expected rate, few non-dispensing roles have been created, and schools continue to open with no end in sight. There is also the threat of automation which could reduce or even reverse job growth.

I believe that the job market will improve eventually, but the question is when. It could be a good 20+ years before demand meets supply again. It will likely get a lot worse in coming years before it gets better as more schools take $150k+ from graduates and subsequently dump them into the Pharmacist Workforce Hunger Games.

I agree 100% with what you are saying. I was just pointing out at in the next 10 years the number of pharmacists that retire has to carry at least some significance when pointing out the gap between supply/demand. I don't believe pharmacy is doomed, but like you said it may be 10-20 years down the road before supply meets demand, especially considering that the pharmacy job market has the potential to spend the next 10 years getting even worse before improvement begins.