US News Med School Rankings Validity?

[Cyberdyne 101]

Tl;dr: Why do most top residencies correlate so well with the top ten medical schools?

I don't think this is the case. It's easy to say that UCSF, Columbia, Hopkins, etc have top IM programs, but the med students and physicians on this forum often remind us that the top programs in various specialties are not necessarily affiliated with top ten schools.

Some possible examples:
Jefferson and Iowa for academic ortho
Barrow and Pitt for neurosurgery
Cincinnati and Colorado for peds
UTSW for surgery

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Greenberg702]

How well do the medical school ranks correlate with academic residency and fellowship ranks? Or do the residency and fellowship ranks correlate more with hospital rankings? I came across a few threads and anecdotally saw that the higher the rank of the medical school, the more sought after the residency/fellowship. For example in IM places like UCSF/Hopkins/MGH/Penn rank much higher than top places which are ranked in the teens (Cornell/Vanderbilt/Pitt). Are these training sites ranked so high because of their associations with their respective medical schools?

Browsing a few threads on SDN I found that despite being qualitatively very similar in terms of resources and prestige, Columbia is a lot more desirable for IM than Mount Sinai because they have a better track record of sending their graduates into “top” (whatever that means?) fellowships in GI, cards, etc. Do fellowship directors look at Columbia residency more favorably because they get their better reputation from their medical school rank?

I think it goes without saying that while the student is the ultimate variable for where they end up; going to a top school that puts more graduates into desirable programs is advantageous (ie: Columbia vs Sinai for IM, neurosurgery, etc).

Tl;dr: Why do most top residencies correlate so well with the top ten medical schools?

The Columbia vs. Sinai IM example is not very strong because Sinai has arguably a top 5 GI program (Columbia's doesn't even come close) and some of the biggest names in all of GI. When it comes to applying for fellowships it usually boils down to 1. Your research in the specialty and 2. Who calls for you. Both of these are based on the attendings present at the program. The Columbia neurosurgery example works well because they have some of the biggest names in the field (Connolly et al.) who can call and bat for their students. This isn't because P&S is ranked higher than Sinai, it's department specific. For example, if you wanted to connect with big names and do research in radiology, you would have much more luck at a place like NYU, despite the difference in ranking between Columbia and NYU.

 

[getdown]

Don't put too much stock into these rankings. You can go anywhere from any medical school as long as you do well academically.

Also, keep in mind that by the time you're planning on matching what you consider important now (prestige, the best "program", etc) will most likely change since you may have a significant other or some other life changing moments that puts limits on where you want to go. Listen, most pre-meds at this position are so consumed with rank lists and other insignificant bull**** that you don't realize that at the end of the day the only thing that matters in deciding your residency choice is your happiness. A person from bum**** nowhere is going to be happy going back to bum**** nowhere if his family is from there. A person that's all about academics will be happy at a heavy research program. Every year we get into this discussion about what's "the best" and the answer should be whatever will make you happy. Anything else is a waste of time and an exercise of stupidity.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

Not that people pay any attention to. There's a list of top 40 NIH funding schools that charting outcomes uses, but that's about it.

Yes - Google medical school ranking startclass

They also have really nice school info pages!

 

[bumblebee611]

I sort of agree what you say but I think the problem with tiers inevitably is between adjacent ones. For instance you might want to try and call something a "top 10" school. But is the place ranked 11 worse than the one ranked 10? Not really. Or then you could say I'll do a top twenty tier. And while many may agree that group of schools may be "better" than the schools you are ranking 70-100, how confident are you that your school ranked 19 is better than the one ranked 25? And then is 25 really "better" than 30? And once you see that the tiers only work as compared to very distant tiers, rather than head to head with those near the cut offs you simply don't have much of a tool to help you decide. So basically yes you can say Harvard and Hopkins are better than Bobs Unranked School for the Mentally Challenged. But I think you can never create a good tier system that will help you distinguish schools 10-20 ranks apart, without unfairly and arbitrarily elevating some and snubbing others.

How about 30 ranks apart? I'm serious; this is something I'm trying to figure out now. In your opinion, is there a real difference between these two types of institution? (Top 5 versus somewhere in the 30s.)

 

[Law2Doc]

How about 30 ranks apart? I'm serious; this is something I'm trying to figure out now. In your opinion, is there a real difference between these two types of institution? (Top 5 versus somewhere in the 30s.)

Top 5 vs 35? Maybe. Especially if you hope to do some heady research. 35 to 55? Not so much. So you can see the problem with tiering. You can't draw bright lines .

 

[bumblebee611]

Top 5 vs 35? Maybe. Especially if you hope to do some heady research. 35 to 55? Not so much. So you can see the problem with tiering. You can't draw bright lines .

I absolutely see your point -- thanks for your input. Like you, I am/was a lawyer, and I was lucky enough to go to a top tier law school. As you know, in that world, the difference in opportunities between #5ish and #35ish is huge.

 

[Law2Doc]

I absolutely see your point -- thanks for your input. Like you, I am/was a lawyer, and I was lucky enough to go to a top tier law school. As you know, in that world, the difference in opportunities between #5ish and #35ish is huge.

Yeah it's nothing like law. It's not unheard of to end up at a residency equivalent of Skadden coming from the school ranked 100.