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Doesn't work for applicants like me eitherI don't think his metrics are appropriate for applicants like you.
Doesn't work for applicants like me eitherI don't think his metrics are appropriate for applicants like you.
As RogueUnicorn and others have pointed out, it basically comes down to knowing yourself as an applicant and researching schools accordingly.Doesn't work for applicants like me either
I don't think his metrics are appropriate for applicants like you.
As RogueUnicorn and others have pointed out, it basically comes down to knowing yourself as an applicant and researching schools accordingly.
I applaud @WedgeDawg's effort, however I still maintain that an algorithm isn't necessary for applicants to formulate a realistic school list.I think this system is very useful if used as what I think WedgeDawg probably intended it for: a tool. There are many tools available in medical school admissions, and this system is just one of them. It can give you a ballpark estimate, based on past experience, of what sorts of places you'll be competitive for. But, in the end only the applicant can determine what their limits are and what they will be competitive for. What I hope this will do is provide a more realistic picture for people who aren't as in tune with medical school admissions patterns when it comes time to apply, i.e. the guy with a 3.2 sGPA, 27 MCAT and limited shadowing experience who's top 5 choices are the USNWR top 1-5, etc.
Certainly not necessary and never a replacement for critical thinking, research, introspection, and sound judgment, but merely a supplementary tool that some may find a useful starting point.I applaud @WedgeDawg's effort, however I still maintain that an algorithm isn't necessary for applicants to formulate a realistic school list.
Yes. This statement x1000.Certainly not necessary and never a replacement for critical thinking, research, introspection, and sound judgment, but merely a supplementary tool that some may find a useful starting point.
I have to second that PA sentiment. I'm a S level applicant but will be applying to several of the Cat 6 low yield schools. Hopefully they afford me some in-state preference!Thanks for the algorithm @WedgeDawg. I got grouped as a D level or C level applicant. I only changed the "upward trend" metric. I did not have an upward trend in GPA, it was consistent for all four years (but good consistent). I wasn't sure how to answer? It seemed like answering that I had no upward trend was a penalty. . .
I also read earlier on this thread someone suggest adding a "when you applied." I applied quite late and I firmly believe that it altered my potential application season. I also just want to take a moment and complain that it sucks that PA residents are inundated with Low Yield schools and no "state" schools. That's not a complaint at you Wedge, but just a general note to the universe at large.
Other than that it was remarkably accurate. I only applied to category 4 and 6 schools (both heavily suggested by the algorithm) and got IIs from both categories.
@WedgeDawg how did you decide on cat2 vs cat3. Like UTSW/Emory/UVA are in the same league as Baylor/Case imo. What made you decide otherwise?
@WedgeDawg
If I am moving from C level to S level just due to a 5 --> 7 in stats... should I seriously consider retaking my Jan 2015 (11,8,11) MCAT? GPA is impossible for me to move at this point!
It just seems absurd that all i need is a few point increase on the MCAT (of which I think I am capable of doing) to apply to an almost entirely different school list!
I scored myself at an 86 (choosing the lower scoring tier at any I was borderline at)
I received interviews at:
2 "category 1" schools
1 "category 2" school
2 "category 2"schools
my state school
1 unlisted school (University of Miami)
How many did you apply to?
I applied quite late and I firmly believe that it altered my potential application season.
I completely agree with this^ - my secondaries were complete in September/October, and compared to others with similar stats and research I received way fewer interview invites. If time of application were taken into account, it would be very useful to know which schools have more rolling admissions, although this may be too detailed for this decision tool. While it (luckily) turns out I will be attending my first choice anyways, this application season really made me realize how important applying early (or just NOT applying late) is in receiving interview invites. If there could be some way to communicate this simple idea via this tool it would be helpful! Maybe just have a category where applicants can choose "applied late (secondaries complete September or later)" and then have the output say ""
Thank you @WedgeDawg for all your time and efforts in putting this all together. I am certain future applicants will greatly benefit from this tool as it will help to get them off on the right foot when they start putting together their school lists. It certainly was accurate for me!
Great point - unfortunately I did use the LizzyM score and an interactive excel file I found here on SDN to get school list in May before starting my application (so I had an early school list), but I was just stupid and was not quick in turning around my secondaries! So I had the foresight, but did not act on it accordingly hahaThank you for your words of support.
The reason that "late application" is not a category here is that this is a tool for coming up with a list of schools to apply to. Thus, time of application is irrelevant to this. You become less competitive at nearly every school if you apply late, and if you have the foresight to use tools like this to come up with schools early, this should be a non-issue anyway.
Hey all,
As a first time Canadian applicant, I'm not entirely in tune with the intricacies of US schools. I was wondering if the "Low Yield" category was worth applying to? After a cursory look over the MSAR some schools (BU, Georgetown, Penn State, Jefferson) made it to my short list for their high international matriculant %.
Any clarification?
So international admissions is an entirely different ballgame and well outside my foundation of knowledge. As such, I wouldn't be able to tell you. It might be worth doing a search in the forums to see if anyone has had a similar question (which is likely), otherwise make a thread asking the question so that you can get quick, direct responses from people more knowledgeable than me.
Low Yield generally means that for most applicants, the time, effort, and money invested in applying to these particularly schools could better be used elsewhere. In general, these are schools with a very high volume of applicants or a very low interview:applicant ratio.
I'm not following your logic here... why recommend that only C and D level applicants apply to low yield schools?
A lot depends on MCAT and ECs...my GPA is lower than your predicted GPA, but my applicant score is much higher due to MCAT and extensive clinical ECs. I would say that the weakest part of the app you described is not the 3.4 GPA, but actually the "no research, volunteer, or med experience". With a low stat, you can't afford to blatantly ignore even one other area, never mind 2 huge ones like vol and clinical experience, plus research. Pick up a clinical volunteer position...it'll knock out 2 birds with one stone at relatively low hours. If you do it consistently over the same period as your extensive gpa repair, it would turn a zero into a strong area on your app. You can make yourself into a viable candidate, but it will be a lot of work. Good luck!Oh man... this is a little disparaging.
I am a non-traditional college dropout (due to financial reasons and no support system) that had a 2.5 GPA due to laziness/ambivalence/lack of support and I plan on returning to school, finishing a degree at a new school while working (4.0 should be easy and I have a year left of classes), and getting my science pre-reqs knocked out at a local CC and State School that fits into my schedule.
Ironically, I am a relatively successful computer engineer right now and will be doing all this while working a 50h work week. I didn't used to enjoy sciences, but after becoming very fitness-savvy and learning about nutrition, I now LOVE science and helping people meet goals and be healthier.
Anyways, it shows that if I was able to get my science GPA to a 3.75 and bring my overall GPA to 3.4 with a (equiv. of) 33 MCAT (no research, volunteer, or med experience) - basically straight A's after revisiting college and a high mcat - I would still be only have an ARS score of 58 and would be an E-Level applicant, which I understand should only apply to Cat 4/5 if this makes sense:
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Does that sound about right? I will still at least have a good shot if I go down this 3 year journey of mine?
A lot depends on MCAT and ECs...my GPA is lower than your predicted GPA, but my applicant score is much higher due to MCAT and extensive clinical ECs. I would say that the weakest part of the app you described is not the 3.4 GPA, but actually the "no research, volunteer, or med experience". With a low stat, you can't afford to blatantly ignore even one other area, never mind 2 huge ones like vol and clinical experience, plus research. Pick up a clinical volunteer position...it'll knock out 2 birds with one stone at relatively low hours. If you do it consistently over the same period as your extensive GPA repair, it would turn a zero into a strong area on your app. You can make yourself into a viable candidate, but it will be a lot of work. Good luck!
I'd personally try to find an ER volunteer position...those tend to be more flexible on hours - for a few hours on weekends. You'll be busy, but it'll make a world of difference on your eventual app.Let me give you an example of my possible schedule this summer:
M-F:
6:00am - gym before work
7:00am - ready for work and to work by 8:00am
8:00am - 5:00pm - work
6:00pm - 11:00pm - Science Class + Lab
Saturday-Sunday:
Errands / Study / Cook all my meals for the week
The classes are BIO I and CHEM I from Community College.
I can take BIO II, CHEM II, Physics I/II and Organic Chemistry I/II this way as well.
Thoughts?
How would first generation college student count on this??? Anyway it could have some weight such as URM does?? @WedgeDawg
Also where would Miami rank in here? Category 3?
A bit confused about Level 6 Schools when you mean "Low Yield"
Thanks in advance for the clarifications, this is a great tool!! Great work man.
I'd personally try to find an ER volunteer position...those tend to be more flexible on hours - for a few hours on weekends. You'll be busy, but it'll make a world of difference on your eventual app.
Alternatively, some of the more hands-on volunteer positions might be available for your 6-730 slot, replacing the gym 1-2x/wk, but that's dependent on what's available in your area and would be more tiring to pull off.
I'm confused?Way ahead of you
but apparently it doesn't count for anything
I'm confused?
If you continue it forward you can! Just keep volunteering in a hospital into college, and then when you get to your app just put an 'Emergency Department Volunteering' entry, use the most recent contact info, but also put 'Repeated' and put the high school dates/hours. Use the description to add the info for that hospital.Sorry, it was on another post.
I volunteer in the ED, but since I am in "high school" I can't put it on my ADCOM.
If you continue it forward you can! Just keep volunteering in a hospital into college, and then when you get to your app just put an 'Emergency Department Volunteering' entry, use the most recent contact info, but also put 'Repeated' and put the high school dates/hours. Use the description to add the info for that hospital.
Also, friendly correction - you mean AMCAS. Adcoms are the people at the med schools who read applications. AAMC is the organization that provides the primary application. AMCAS is the primary application.
I'm learning that the undergraduate schools parameter is very important, but might not be predictable by numbers alone. Some schools favor (and disfavor) certain UGs over others. For example, I recently acquired the 10-year acceptance data for my UG for every medical school in the country. There were discrepancies between many of the top tier schools; for example, there's simply no point in me applying to Harvard or Stanford, because neither has accepted a single student from my UG in ten years! Contrast with Hopkins, who accepted about 16, and generally accepts at least one per year. Our acceptance rate to UPenn was even higher.
So, this particular item will need more personal attention from the applicant than the other areas.
I agree that it's important to see where previous grads have been admitted. However, if a strong applicant already has a good list, I see nothing wrong with adding a few reach schools, even if the applicant's undergrad has had little success with those institutions. Admissions committees can change.Very useful information to have -- Pre-meds: Check with your school's pre-med advising committee/office to see where previous graduates have been admitted and consider adding those schools to your application list. This is especially true for students at regional or less well-known colleges --