WedgeDawg's Applicant Rating System (Updated Jan 2017)

[f4reignbeauty]

I don't think his metrics are appropriate for applicants like you.

Doesn't work for applicants like me either

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[Cyberdyne 101]

Doesn't work for applicants like me either

As RogueUnicorn and others have pointed out, it basically comes down to knowing yourself as an applicant and researching schools accordingly.

 

[MrLogan13]

I don't think his metrics are appropriate for applicants like you.

I totally agree. Some things just can't be generalized into a simple formula. I'm grateful that's the case, otherwise my application would have been dead in the water.

 

[NeuResurgens]

As RogueUnicorn and others have pointed out, it basically comes down to knowing yourself as an applicant and researching schools accordingly.

I think this system is very useful if used as what I think WedgeDawg probably intended it for: a tool. There are many tools available in medical school admissions, and this system is just one of them. It can give you a ballpark estimate, based on past experience, of what sorts of places you'll be competitive for. But, in the end only the applicant can determine what their limits are and what they will be competitive for. What I hope this will do is provide a more realistic picture for people who aren't as in tune with medical school admissions patterns when it comes time to apply, i.e. the guy with a 3.2 sGPA, 27 MCAT and limited shadowing experience who's top 5 choices are the USNWR top 1-5, etc.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I think this system is very useful if used as what I think WedgeDawg probably intended it for: a tool. There are many tools available in medical school admissions, and this system is just one of them. It can give you a ballpark estimate, based on past experience, of what sorts of places you'll be competitive for. But, in the end only the applicant can determine what their limits are and what they will be competitive for. What I hope this will do is provide a more realistic picture for people who aren't as in tune with medical school admissions patterns when it comes time to apply, i.e. the guy with a 3.2 sGPA, 27 MCAT and limited shadowing experience who's top 5 choices are the USNWR top 1-5, etc.

I applaud @WedgeDawg's effort, however I still maintain that an algorithm isn't necessary for applicants to formulate a realistic school list.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I applaud @WedgeDawg's effort, however I still maintain that an algorithm isn't necessary for applicants to formulate a realistic school list.

Certainly not necessary and never a replacement for critical thinking, research, introspection, and sound judgment, but merely a supplementary tool that some may find a useful starting point.

 

[Glandzburg]

Certainly not necessary and never a replacement for critical thinking, research, introspection, and sound judgment, but merely a supplementary tool that some may find a useful starting point.

Yes. This statement x1000.

 

[turayza]

It was fun to fill out the spreadsheet
One thing that is important for applicants to keep in mind is what the school emphasizes and how well your activities match that. I sorted schools generally into more research-y and more service-y when deciding which to apply to; it just so happens to be that most of the Group 1 schools emphasize academic research a lot.

 

[emraldragon]

Thanks for the algorithm @WedgeDawg. I got grouped as a D level or C level applicant. I only changed the "upward trend" metric. I did not have an upward trend in GPA, it was consistent for all four years (but good consistent). I wasn't sure how to answer? It seemed like answering that I had no upward trend was a penalty. . .

I also read earlier on this thread someone suggest adding a "when you applied." I applied quite late and I firmly believe that it altered my potential application season. I also just want to take a moment and complain that it sucks that PA residents are inundated with Low Yield schools and no "state" schools. That's not a complaint at you Wedge, but just a general note to the universe at large.

Other than that it was remarkably accurate. I only applied to category 4 and 6 schools (both heavily suggested by the algorithm) and got IIs from both categories.

 

[jagster92]

Thanks for the algorithm @WedgeDawg. I got grouped as a D level or C level applicant. I only changed the "upward trend" metric. I did not have an upward trend in GPA, it was consistent for all four years (but good consistent). I wasn't sure how to answer? It seemed like answering that I had no upward trend was a penalty. . .

I also read earlier on this thread someone suggest adding a "when you applied." I applied quite late and I firmly believe that it altered my potential application season. I also just want to take a moment and complain that it sucks that PA residents are inundated with Low Yield schools and no "state" schools. That's not a complaint at you Wedge, but just a general note to the universe at large.

Other than that it was remarkably accurate. I only applied to category 4 and 6 schools (both heavily suggested by the algorithm) and got IIs from both categories.

I have to second that PA sentiment. I'm a S level applicant but will be applying to several of the Cat 6 low yield schools. Hopefully they afford me some in-state preference!

 

[Ailleurs]

I am absolutely amazed by the depth of information/research you have done to create this. Great job!

 

[Kanyeezy23]

@WedgeDawg how did you decide on cat2 vs cat3. Like UTSW/Emory/UVA are in the same league as UNC/Baylor/Case imo. What made you decide otherwise?

 

[WedgeDawg]

@WedgeDawg how did you decide on cat2 vs cat3. Like UTSW/Emory/UVA are in the same league as Baylor/Case imo. What made you decide otherwise?

As you've picked up on, some of the lines between school categories, particularly in 2/3, are quite blurry. Case actually recently changed from 3 to 2 due to user request. In general, I went with selectivity, stats, and competitiveness of applicant pool. Generally, it's harder to get into a school like Vanderbilt than it is to UVA, even though UVA has comparable stats. UTSW is an interesting case due to the extreme IS bias, but is included in 3 because it's much more competitive than your "generic state med school" (for lack of a better term).

Again, this is more of a guide than it is anything hard and fast - if you feel that your applicant profile fits Case more than it does Emory (or vice versa), it is certainly your prerogative to apply to that school over the other!

 

[TheOneAndOnlyJamesFranco]

@WedgeDawg

If I am moving from C level to S level just due to a 5 --> 7 in stats... should I seriously consider retaking my Jan 2015 (11,8,11) MCAT? GPA is impossible for me to move at this point!

It just seems absurd that all i need is a few point increase on the MCAT (of which I think I am capable of doing) to apply to an almost entirely different school list!

 

[Ad2b]

Awesome - confirmed my LizzyM indicators and helped eliminate the schools I would not have applied to anyway (97 on your scoring scale, btw).

So whether or not I actually apply to the S-Level schools (I'm not though according to both LM and WARS, I would be competitive) ... I also know my strength and weaknesses as an applicant and therefore, am adjusting my school list appropriately.

This is a tool. A starting point - a great starting point - but a tool. Just like a screwdriver, or hammer it does nothing without a human brain behind it.

 

[clonoGnic]

Seems pretty accurate...

 

[WedgeDawg]

@WedgeDawg

If I am moving from C level to S level just due to a 5 --> 7 in stats... should I seriously consider retaking my Jan 2015 (11,8,11) MCAT? GPA is impossible for me to move at this point!

It just seems absurd that all i need is a few point increase on the MCAT (of which I think I am capable of doing) to apply to an almost entirely different school list!

Hmm, 5 to 7 should increase your score by 10 points, which, if you're currently C, should only be able to boost you to A. However, MCAT is obviously very important, so if you can raise your score from a 30 to a 35, that would likely be very helpful, though a jump like that is unlikely if you've not been scoring around there in your practice averages.

 

[Kay293T]

I scored myself at an 86 (choosing the lower scoring tier at any I was borderline at)

I received interviews at:

2 "category 1" schools
1 "category 2" school
2 "category 2"schools
my state school
1 unlisted school (University of Miami)

 

[Ad2b]

I scored myself at an 86 (choosing the lower scoring tier at any I was borderline at)

I received interviews at:

2 "category 1" schools
1 "category 2" school
2 "category 2"schools
my state school
1 unlisted school (University of Miami)

How many did you apply to?

 

[Kay293T]

How many did you apply to?

20

 

[wildfan1]

I applied quite late and I firmly believe that it altered my potential application season.

I completely agree with this^ - my secondaries were complete in September/October, and compared to others with similar stats and research I received way fewer interview invites. If time of application were taken into account, it would be very useful to know which schools have more rolling admissions, although this may be too detailed for this decision tool. While it (luckily) turns out I will be attending my first choice anyways, this application season really made me realize how important applying early (or just NOT applying late) is in receiving interview invites. If there could be some way to communicate this simple idea via this tool it would be helpful! Maybe just have a category where applicants can choose "applied late (secondaries complete September or later)" and then have the output say ""

Thank you @WedgeDawg for all your time and efforts in putting this all together. I am certain future applicants will greatly benefit from this tool as it will help to get them off on the right foot when they start putting together their school lists. It certainly was accurate for me!

 

[WedgeDawg]

I completely agree with this^ - my secondaries were complete in September/October, and compared to others with similar stats and research I received way fewer interview invites. If time of application were taken into account, it would be very useful to know which schools have more rolling admissions, although this may be too detailed for this decision tool. While it (luckily) turns out I will be attending my first choice anyways, this application season really made me realize how important applying early (or just NOT applying late) is in receiving interview invites. If there could be some way to communicate this simple idea via this tool it would be helpful! Maybe just have a category where applicants can choose "applied late (secondaries complete September or later)" and then have the output say ""

Thank you @WedgeDawg for all your time and efforts in putting this all together. I am certain future applicants will greatly benefit from this tool as it will help to get them off on the right foot when they start putting together their school lists. It certainly was accurate for me!

Thank you for your words of support.

The reason that "late application" is not a category here is that this is a tool for coming up with a list of schools to apply to. Thus, time of application is irrelevant to this. You become less competitive at nearly every school if you apply late, and if you have the foresight to use tools like this to come up with schools early, this should be a non-issue anyway.

 

[wildfan1]

Thank you for your words of support.

The reason that "late application" is not a category here is that this is a tool for coming up with a list of schools to apply to. Thus, time of application is irrelevant to this. You become less competitive at nearly every school if you apply late, and if you have the foresight to use tools like this to come up with schools early, this should be a non-issue anyway.

Great point - unfortunately I did use the LizzyM score and an interactive excel file I found here on SDN to get school list in May before starting my application (so I had an early school list), but I was just stupid and was not quick in turning around my secondaries! So I had the foresight, but did not act on it accordingly haha

 

[tatum]

Already done with my first (and thankfully last!) app cycle, but I went ahead and tried it anyway. I think it would have been a good starting point for me.

After doing much research of schools and cross checking my LizzyM scores I chose to apply to around 20 schools. In terms of this list, I applied to a couple category 3 schools and many category 4-6 schools (I don't think anyone should consider or anyone expects the category breakdowns on the excel sheet to be concrete or comprehensive, but they are a good start and baseline for comparisons ). Ultimately, I received 3 acceptances and believe i will get off of another waitlist soon.

The tool placed me at B level, which would have laid out a path similar to the path I chose with just a couple differences. I only applied to 20 schools rather than the suggested 27, but this has to do with why with another difference, which is I didn't apply to any category 1 or 2 schools. I wanted to make sure I had a legitimate chance at every school I applied to so, I left out many of my "reach" schools. This was due to applying a little late, wanting to save money, and a little lack of self-confidence that maybe this tool could have given me!

Ultimately, the rating system is a fair assessment of an applicant, and with some more work could definitely become a useful tool for applicants. Individuals will always need to consider their unique circumstances when applying, but the tool does a good job of quantifying some previously non-quantified applicant attributes. Good job! This process is a bear and efforts like this could truly help people. Now, figure out how to introduce the new MCAT lol

Edit: nvm I saw the new MCAT was already included. When reading the numbers they were so foreign to me I did not recognize them as scores!

 

[Ad2b]

One additional thought:

Have a "detractor" column for non-trads... though the schools will NEVER tell a potential student, "You are too old" - we know that comes into play.

Category could be a choice between "Over 35" (-30) or "Under 35" (1) ... that way it heavily penalizes older students (like me) and makes it more realistic ... a 30 point drop puts me where my list is at today. While it is fun to think that I could be a reasonably considered student for Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, Penn ... I "know" that I would hear the adcoms laughing no matter what part of the planet I'm on. I'm simply too old for those schools though my stats would say differently.

And I'm okay with that - I knew the route would be bumpy and significantly difficult when I started

 

[heebeejeebies]

Hey all,

As a first time Canadian applicant, I'm not entirely in tune with the intricacies of US schools. I was wondering if the "Low Yield" category was worth applying to? After a cursory look over the MSAR some schools (BU, Georgetown, Penn State, Jefferson) made it to my short list for their high international matriculant %.

Any clarification?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Hey all,

As a first time Canadian applicant, I'm not entirely in tune with the intricacies of US schools. I was wondering if the "Low Yield" category was worth applying to? After a cursory look over the MSAR some schools (BU, Georgetown, Penn State, Jefferson) made it to my short list for their high international matriculant %.

Any clarification?

So international admissions is an entirely different ballgame and well outside my foundation of knowledge. As such, I wouldn't be able to tell you. It might be worth doing a search in the forums to see if anyone has had a similar question (which is likely), otherwise make a thread asking the question so that you can get quick, direct responses from people more knowledgeable than me.

 

[heebeejeebies]

So international admissions is an entirely different ballgame and well outside my foundation of knowledge. As such, I wouldn't be able to tell you. It might be worth doing a search in the forums to see if anyone has had a similar question (which is likely), otherwise make a thread asking the question so that you can get quick, direct responses from people more knowledgeable than me.

Thanks WedgeDawg, I've poured through the forums the last few days, I'll keep looking a bit more and if anything will make a thread with questions specific to my situation!

On that note if any other Canadian applicants read this feel free to message me and maybe we can work on a Google Doc to create an international applicant rulebook of sorts!

 

[otterxavier]

Low Yield generally means that for most applicants, the time, effort, and money invested in applying to these particularly schools could better be used elsewhere. In general, these are schools with a very high volume of applicants or a very low interview:applicant ratio.

I'm not following your logic here... why recommend that only C and D level applicants apply to low yield schools?

 

[WedgeDawg]

I'm not following your logic here... why recommend that only C and D level applicants apply to low yield schools?

Candidates with stronger applications will have a better shot at getting into schools overall, so for these applicants, the return on investment for applying to a few more schools that have low yield will not be worth the time, effort, and money. However, for more marginal or borderline candidates, the chances of getting into a school (any school) is lower, and therefore increasing the number of schools they apply to may appreciably increase their chances of getting accepted. Once all the non-low yield schools have been applied to, they will have to dip into the low yield schools.

 

[Jeex]

Oh man... this is a little disparaging.

I am a non-traditional college dropout (due to financial reasons and no support system) that had a 2.5 GPA due to laziness/ambivalence/lack of support and I plan on returning to school, finishing a degree at a new school while working (4.0 should be easy and I have a year left of classes), and getting my science pre-reqs knocked out at a local CC and State School that fits into my schedule.

Ironically, I am a relatively successful computer engineer right now and will be doing all this while working a 50h work week. I didn't used to enjoy sciences, but after becoming very fitness-savvy and learning about nutrition, I now LOVE science and helping people meet goals and be healthier.

Anyways, it shows that if I was able to get my science GPA to a 3.75 and bring my overall GPA to 3.4 with a (equiv. of) 33 MCAT (no research, volunteer, or med experience) - basically straight A's after revisiting college and a high mcat - I would still be only have an ARS score of 58 and would be an E-Level applicant, which I understand should only apply to Cat 4/5 if this makes sense:

Does that sound about right? I will still at least have a good shot if I go down this 3 year journey of mine?

 

[mehc012]

Oh man... this is a little disparaging.

I am a non-traditional college dropout (due to financial reasons and no support system) that had a 2.5 GPA due to laziness/ambivalence/lack of support and I plan on returning to school, finishing a degree at a new school while working (4.0 should be easy and I have a year left of classes), and getting my science pre-reqs knocked out at a local CC and State School that fits into my schedule.

Ironically, I am a relatively successful computer engineer right now and will be doing all this while working a 50h work week. I didn't used to enjoy sciences, but after becoming very fitness-savvy and learning about nutrition, I now LOVE science and helping people meet goals and be healthier.

Anyways, it shows that if I was able to get my science GPA to a 3.75 and bring my overall GPA to 3.4 with a (equiv. of) 33 MCAT (no research, volunteer, or med experience) - basically straight A's after revisiting college and a high mcat - I would still be only have an ARS score of 58 and would be an E-Level applicant, which I understand should only apply to Cat 4/5 if this makes sense:

View attachment 192085

View attachment 192086

View attachment 192090

Does that sound about right? I will still at least have a good shot if I go down this 3 year journey of mine?

A lot depends on MCAT and ECs...my GPA is lower than your predicted GPA, but my applicant score is much higher due to MCAT and extensive clinical ECs. I would say that the weakest part of the app you described is not the 3.4 GPA, but actually the "no research, volunteer, or med experience". With a low stat, you can't afford to blatantly ignore even one other area, never mind 2 huge ones like vol and clinical experience, plus research. Pick up a clinical volunteer position...it'll knock out 2 birds with one stone at relatively low hours. If you do it consistently over the same period as your extensive gpa repair, it would turn a zero into a strong area on your app. You can make yourself into a viable candidate, but it will be a lot of work. Good luck!

 

[Jeex]

A lot depends on MCAT and ECs...my GPA is lower than your predicted GPA, but my applicant score is much higher due to MCAT and extensive clinical ECs. I would say that the weakest part of the app you described is not the 3.4 GPA, but actually the "no research, volunteer, or med experience". With a low stat, you can't afford to blatantly ignore even one other area, never mind 2 huge ones like vol and clinical experience, plus research. Pick up a clinical volunteer position...it'll knock out 2 birds with one stone at relatively low hours. If you do it consistently over the same period as your extensive GPA repair, it would turn a zero into a strong area on your app. You can make yourself into a viable candidate, but it will be a lot of work. Good luck!

Let me give you an example of my possible schedule this summer:

M-F:
6:00am - gym before work
7:00am - ready for work and to work by 8:00am
8:00am - 5:00pm - work
6:00pm - 11:00pm - Science Class + Lab

Saturday-Sunday:
Errands / Study / Cook all my meals for the week

The classes are BIO I and CHEM I from Community College.

I can take BIO II, CHEM II, Physics I/II and Organic Chemistry I/II this way as well.

Thoughts?

 

[workhardplayhard]

Played around with the spreadsheet. I'm wondering why the MCAT category asks for the average of your MCAT? Seems that the consensus for MCAT scores at schools is something along the lines of highest score in most recent years. Anyways, depending on whether I use my most recent score or average my scores, I change from high C to mid D. Anyways thank for putting this together! I'm an international app so the school list isn't as open for me, but I'll keep this updated regarding my school list vs suggested school list and the appropriate II/acceptances if they happen.

 

[mehc012]

Let me give you an example of my possible schedule this summer:

M-F:
6:00am - gym before work
7:00am - ready for work and to work by 8:00am
8:00am - 5:00pm - work
6:00pm - 11:00pm - Science Class + Lab

Saturday-Sunday:
Errands / Study / Cook all my meals for the week

The classes are BIO I and CHEM I from Community College.

I can take BIO II, CHEM II, Physics I/II and Organic Chemistry I/II this way as well.

Thoughts?

I'd personally try to find an ER volunteer position...those tend to be more flexible on hours - for a few hours on weekends. You'll be busy, but it'll make a world of difference on your eventual app.

Alternatively, some of the more hands-on volunteer positions might be available for your 6-730 slot, replacing the gym 1-2x/wk, but that's dependent on what's available in your area and would be more tiring to pull off.

 

[XxThaDoggxX]

How would first generation college student count on this??? Anyway it could have some weight such as URM does?? @WedgeDawg

Also where would Miami rank in here? Category 3?

A bit confused about Level 6 Schools when you mean "Low Yield"

Thanks in advance for the clarifications, this is a great tool!! Great work man.

 

[miamiheatfan]

Perfectly accurate for me! Applied mostly to category 3-7 and all of my acceptances came from my target categories specifically!

Great system @WedgeDawg Props to you sir!

 

[WedgeDawg]

How would first generation college student count on this??? Anyway it could have some weight such as URM does?? @WedgeDawg

Also where would Miami rank in here? Category 3?

A bit confused about Level 6 Schools when you mean "Low Yield"

Thanks in advance for the clarifications, this is a great tool!! Great work man.

I'm not exactly sure how first generation would affect your app. It's probable that it does, in terms of this system, give some sort of point increase, but I just have so limited experience with it personally that I don't have a value for it. You could try using the system normally and if you end up close to a threshold, then go with the category above your score, otherwise stay with what you got, but your intuition and advice from others more familiar with this particular facet will be able to help more than I can in this situation.

Miami would likely be Category 3. Possibly 4, but I think most likely 3.

Low yield is answered a little while back in the thread, but the gist of it is these schools have a low interview:applicant or matriculant:applicant ratio and for many applicants would not be worth investing time, money, and effort applying to because of the low probability of payoff.

 

[XxThaDoggxX]

Gotcha!!! Thanks for answering my questions!!! Hopefully the 1st generation thing will give me atleast a little bump...I need all I can get

 

[NeuResurgens]

I'm learning that the undergraduate schools parameter is very important, but might not be predictable by numbers alone. Some schools favor (and disfavor) certain UGs over others. For example, I recently acquired the 10-year acceptance data for my UG for every medical school in the country. There were discrepancies between many of the top tier schools; for example, there's simply no point in me applying to Harvard or Stanford, because neither has accepted a single student from my UG in ten years! Contrast with Hopkins, who accepted about 16, and generally accepts at least one per year. Our acceptance rate to UPenn was even higher.

So, this particular item will need more personal attention from the applicant than the other areas.

 

[plage noire]

I get that this is a rough way to start making a list of schools, but are any other B level applicants confused on how to draw 35% of their schools from category 3? Basically we're supposed to apply to every school on that very short list...

 

[Simpson]

I'd personally try to find an ER volunteer position...those tend to be more flexible on hours - for a few hours on weekends. You'll be busy, but it'll make a world of difference on your eventual app.

Alternatively, some of the more hands-on volunteer positions might be available for your 6-730 slot, replacing the gym 1-2x/wk, but that's dependent on what's available in your area and would be more tiring to pull off.

Way ahead of you
but apparently it doesn't count for anything

 

[mehc012]

Way ahead of you
but apparently it doesn't count for anything

I'm confused?

 

[Simpson]

I'm confused?

Sorry, it was on another post.
I volunteer in the ED, but since I am in "high school" I can't put it on my ADCOM.

 

[mehc012]

Sorry, it was on another post.
I volunteer in the ED, but since I am in "high school" I can't put it on my ADCOM.

If you continue it forward you can! Just keep volunteering in a hospital into college, and then when you get to your app just put an 'Emergency Department Volunteering' entry, use the most recent contact info, but also put 'Repeated' and put the high school dates/hours. Use the description to add the info for that hospital.
Also, friendly correction - you mean AMCAS. Adcoms are the people at the med schools who read applications. AAMC is the organization that provides the primary application. AMCAS is the primary application.

 

[Simpson]

If you continue it forward you can! Just keep volunteering in a hospital into college, and then when you get to your app just put an 'Emergency Department Volunteering' entry, use the most recent contact info, but also put 'Repeated' and put the high school dates/hours. Use the description to add the info for that hospital.
Also, friendly correction - you mean AMCAS. Adcoms are the people at the med schools who read applications. AAMC is the organization that provides the primary application. AMCAS is the primary application.

Thanks, I have been posting "ADCOM" everywhere *facepalm

Yea, what if I keep doing it over the summer?

 

[Aerus]

The max score seems to be a lot higher than 121...unless I'm completely misunderstanding the formula.

 

[DokterMom]

I'm learning that the undergraduate schools parameter is very important, but might not be predictable by numbers alone. Some schools favor (and disfavor) certain UGs over others. For example, I recently acquired the 10-year acceptance data for my UG for every medical school in the country. There were discrepancies between many of the top tier schools; for example, there's simply no point in me applying to Harvard or Stanford, because neither has accepted a single student from my UG in ten years! Contrast with Hopkins, who accepted about 16, and generally accepts at least one per year. Our acceptance rate to UPenn was even higher.

So, this particular item will need more personal attention from the applicant than the other areas.

Very useful information to have -- Pre-meds: Check with your school's pre-med advising committee/office to see where previous graduates have been admitted and consider adding those schools to your application list. This is especially true for students at regional or less well-known colleges --

 

[Agobio]

This tool placed me in the S level. I applied to 12 schools and received 5 interviews:

2 Category-1
2 Category-2
1 Category-5 (my state school).

Though I prefer the cat-2 schools I am currently waitlisted at, it looks like I'll be matriculating to a category 1.

Pretty spot on if you ask me! Really cool @WedgeDawg - I'll be sharing this with my friends who are applying this cycle

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Very useful information to have -- Pre-meds: Check with your school's pre-med advising committee/office to see where previous graduates have been admitted and consider adding those schools to your application list. This is especially true for students at regional or less well-known colleges --

I agree that it's important to see where previous grads have been admitted. However, if a strong applicant already has a good list, I see nothing wrong with adding a few reach schools, even if the applicant's undergrad has had little success with those institutions. Admissions committees can change.