When clearly unqualified applicants talk to you

[EdLongshanks]

The other day I had a conversaton that I have a feeling many of you have had and I will have again. A friend told me that he intended to get into medical school.

The problem is that he has less chance of getting in than Barney Frank has of winning a conservative republican primary in Mississippi. He flunked out of Community College once, went one semester to another CC in another state and withdrew from all of those classes. Conversation with him is difficult because he can't express any interesting opinions and on top of all of this, he has a problem with his temper in stressful situations.

Don't get me wrong, these are his bad points. He has good points and I would like to retain his friendship, so I didn't tell him that he had no chance. I just told him the path that he needed to follow and acted like he could do all of this. I suggested an LPN path, since that would at least get him some income soon.

What do you all do in these cases?

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[Dianyla]

Whether or not he's qualified for med school is really up to the admissions committee to decide. Your personal opinion of his worthiness is irrelevant. If he wants to try applying, he should go for it. And you never know... he might even get in.

 

[Latetotheparty]

If it is a close friend of mine, I would at the very least steer him towards educating himself on what's involved in the process and how competitive it is. If it was a good enough friend, I'd probably just come right out and be honest.

That said, as Dianyla said, it's not up to me whether or not he gets in, and if he wants to apply, then all the more power to him.

 

[Simplify]

^

 

[DrMidlife]

Speak the truth; leave opinions out (I doubt he's listening).

For example:

Good: "The average accepted applicant GPA is about 3.6, and it goes up every year. It's published in the MSAR."

Bad: "Your GPA is too low."

 

[physicsguy]

Actually it's rather encouraging when I talk to others like this, because I'm basically in the same boat. With a 3.3 undergrad GPA, there are literally thousands of applicants that your average admissions committee would accept before me. I'm quite happy that some of these people ultimately do make it into med school, because this means I may have a shot as well.

 

[Law2Doc]

Speak the truth; leave opinions out (I doubt he's listening).

For example:

Good: "The average accepted applicant GPA is about 3.6, and it goes up every year. It's published in the MSAR."

Bad: "Your GPA is too low."

Agreed. It's not your job to counsel him that he'll never make it. It's a premed advisors job. So consider steering him to one once he is back in college. Truth of the matter is that people see doctors on TV and think -- I could be one too. Both Cindy Crawford and Mike Tyson at times during their career answered that being a doctor was what they would have done if they couldn't do their current job. So from the outside it must not look that hard. And your friend is in good company.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Agreed. It's not your job to counsel him that he'll never make it. It's a premed advisors job. So consider steering him to one once he is back in college. Truth of the matter is that people see doctors on TV and think -- I could be one too. Both Cindy Crawford and Mike Tyson at times during their career answered that being a doctor was what they would have done if they couldn't do their current job. So from the outside it must not look that hard. And your friend is in good company.

I think that we should distinguish between what our job is and what we do for a friend. A friend does not kill your "impossible dream" and keep you from following that star. And when you march into hell for a heavenly cause he'll be with you.

But there is a difference between "the impossible dream" and "an erratic dreamer". A friend gives good advice when he is asked for it. In this case I advised him to try out the medical field in a more realistically reachable position. There is a good path from LPN to RN and onto NP for him. He's young. If he actually has the determination to go on, then he might have a good shot at med school.

What I don't think he should do is spend money to pursue a biology degree when he's likely to fail beginning Algebra, much less Calculus or Physics. At this point in his life, he hasn't got the backbone to buckle down and do what it takes to study hard.

For not-quite friends an honest listing of the difficulties might be sufficient answer.

 

[DrMidlife]

What I don't think he should do is spend money to pursue a biology degree when he's likely to fail beginning Algebra, much less Calculus or Physics. At this point in his life, he hasn't got the backbone to buckle down and do what it takes to study hard.

Sure. Obviously. But if he doesn't try, then he'll spend the rest of his life wondering and wishing he'd tried. Plus suffering builds character.

 

[Dianyla]

What I don't think he should do is spend money to pursue a biology degree when he's likely to fail beginning Algebra, much less Calculus or Physics. At this point in his life, he hasn't got the backbone to buckle down and do what it takes to study hard.

He may or may not have the backbone, but the only way he's going to find it is to try. Maybe he'll lose some money on tuition or a degree before he realizes that he wants to develop better life habits. Or not. People need to make their own mistakes and learn their own lessons in life.

I think you need to mind your own business. I understand how frustrating it can be to watch friends make poor choices, but a good friend also respects boundaries and personal free agency.

 

[J ROD]

Be honest without being brutal. I simply give the average stats and leave it there. If they are smart enough, they will see where they stand and get the picture. If not, stupid as a stupid does!!

 

[NTF]

Both Cindy Crawford and Mike Tyson at times during their career answered that being a doctor was what they would have done if they couldn't do their current job. So from the outside it must not look that hard. And your friend is in good company.

I believe before modeling took over, Cindy Crawford was valectorian of her high school and received a scholarship to Northwestern. Don't ask me why I know that.

 

[NTF]

I think you can be both direct and compassionate. I agree with others that you can give someone a realistic view of the competitiveness, the skill sets and workload involved without making blanket statements.

We can't predict the future. The guy might be hopeless now, but especially in this forum we should be aware that a human being is a dynamic thing, an ongoing process, not a static entity. Who he is now may not be who he'll be 2, 5, 10 years from now for better or worse, so saying things like "you ain't got no shot." probably isn't the best approach or necessarily true.

Yesterday's screw-up can sometimes be tomorrow's success story.
Yesterday's gunner can sometimes be tomorrow's burn-out.

 

[Nanon]

I think you need to mind your own business. I understand how frustrating it can be to watch friends make poor choices, but a good friend also respects boundaries and personal free agency.

Yep. And by the way, I was a total long shot, too. I did fail beginning algebra (but later kicked ass in Physics). I'm a medical student now.

 

[J ROD]

I believe before modeling took over, Cindy Crawford was valectorian of her high school and received a scholarship to Northwestern. Don't ask me why I know that.

Just another reason to love her! Where is that Pepsi commercial at? I need to see that again......

 

[flip26]

The other day I had a conversaton that I have a feeling many of you have had and I will have again. A friend told me that he intended to get into medical school.

The problem is that he has less chance of getting in than Barney Frank has of winning a conservative republican primary in Mississippi. He flunked out of Community College once, went one semester to another CC in another state and withdrew from all of those classes. Conversation with him is difficult because he can't express any interesting opinions and on top of all of this, he has a problem with his temper in stressful situations.

Don't get me wrong, these are his bad points. He has good points and I would like to retain his friendship, so I didn't tell him that he had no chance. I just told him the path that he needed to follow and acted like he could do all of this. I suggested an LPN path, since that would at least get him some income soon.

What do you all do in these cases?

Tell him to come to SDN and post on WAMC...that will wake him up.

Seriously, ever stop to think how many applicants there are just like him? Sixty percent of the people who apply every year fail. Of that 60 percent, how many do you think have no real chance like this guy? At least half, or maybe 3/4 of them, by my estimation. There is a thin band of people who just miss out, but it is well less than half of the people who fall in that 60 percent.

Many of those who just miss out on an acceptance did something wrong with their app - maybe applied too late, maybe didn't apply to enough schools, maybe had a lack of the right ECs - and most of these people become the reapplicants who make up something like 25 percent of the applicant pool each year, and the reapplicant group includes many people who still have no chance.

 

[DrMidlife]

Sixty percent of the people who apply every year fail. Of that 60 percent, how many do you think have no real chance like this guy? At least half, or maybe 3/4 of them, by my estimation. There is a thin band of people who just miss out, but it is well less than half of the people who fall in that 60 percent.

Nope. Seller's market, overqualified buyers. If you look at the annual AAMC stats about the average applicant vs. the average accepted applicant, the GPA drop is about .2, and the MCAT drop is about 2-3 points. Delusional candidates are a tiny minority.

 

[Latetotheparty]

Nope. Seller's market, overqualified buyers. If you look at the annual AAMC stats about the average applicant vs. the average accepted applicant, the GPA drop is about .2, and the MCAT drop is about 2-3 points. Delusional candidates are a tiny minority.

I believe fairly strongly this is the truth, both from looking at the numbers and from anecdotal experience. I know people that have been waitlisted at 6-10 schools in an application cycle and never got an acceptance. I know people that have applied multiple years in a row and, with only tweaks to their application, went from no acceptances to several.

The scary part about the whole process is it almost feels like, regardless of how complete and competitive your application is, your fate still sits on a knife's edge.

I choose to not think about it so much

 

[flip26]

Nope. Seller's market, overqualified buyers. If you look at the annual AAMC stats about the average applicant vs. the average accepted applicant, the GPA drop is about .2, and the MCAT drop is about 2-3 points. Delusional candidates are a tiny minority.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

Per this table, the number of applicants over a 3 year period with an MCAT total of 26 or less averages around 15,000 per cycle...now some of them get accepted...but for the most part, these people are fighting an uphill battle. The fact that 40K+ people apply for med school each year, it doesn't necessarily follow as you suggest that they are all equally qualified, just not enough seats for them.

Plenty of unqualified people apply every year, and some of them actually manage to get in somewhere, but the vast majority don't. Delusional is a strong word, but clearly there are plenty of delusional applicants in the app pool every cycle applying with stats that put them at a serious disadvantage.

If you want to argue that MCAT and GPA are not fair measures of qualification for success in medical school, go ahead. This game is more than numbers, obviously, if people with sub 25 MCAT scores and sub 3.0 GPAs are getting into med school. But I don't believe that the vast majority of applicants are equally qualified, or even sufficiently qualified, to succeed in med school.

 

[DrMidlife]

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

Per this table, the number of applicants over a 3 year period with an MCAT total of 26 or less averages around 15,000 per cycle...now some of them get accepted...but for the most part, these people are fighting an uphill battle. The fact that 40K+ people apply for med school each year, it doesn't necessarily follow as you suggest that they are all equally qualified, just not enough seats for them.

Plenty of unqualified people apply every year, and some of them actually manage to get in somewhere, but the vast majority don't. Delusional is a strong word, but clearly there are plenty of delusional applicants in the app pool every cycle applying with stats that put them at a serious disadvantage.

If you want to argue that MCAT and GPA are not fair measures of qualification for success in medical school, go ahead. This game is more than numbers, obviously, if people with sub 25 MCAT scores and sub 3.0 GPAs are getting into med school. But I don't believe that the vast majority of applicants are equally qualified, or even sufficiently qualified, to succeed in med school.

I wouldn't include crap MCAT plus killer GPA in the definition of delusional. I doubt MCAT retakes after AMCAS submission are included here, but whatever, that's splitting hairs. I'd define delusional as GPA under 3.0 and MCAT under 27 and no angle. Crap GPA plus crap MCAT plus some unknown ace in the hole = not delusional. Whether that ace is URM or publications or PR or an MCAT retake or an SMP or senator's son, if you've got an angle you're not delusional. Also not all that likely to get in.

Meanwhile I would define delusional as the 4.0/40 (or 3.5/35, 3.0/30) who scares interviewers or whatnot. Thus my "tiny minority" comment should be amended to exclude stats-are-fine-but-would-starve-by-the-end-of-the-week-without-parental-supervision candidates. I stand by my assertion that people who have no business applying are a tiny minority.

Regardless my point is that it's a bell curve, which only moves a little bit to the right when you take out the rejections. You seem to be arguing that it's not a bell curve.

 

[EdLongshanks]

He may or may not have the backbone, but the only way he's going to find it is to try. Maybe he'll lose some money on tuition or a degree before he realizes that he wants to develop better life habits. Or not. People need to make their own mistakes and learn their own lessons in life.

I think you need to mind your own business. I understand how frustrating it can be to watch friends make poor choices, but a good friend also respects boundaries and personal free agency.

My friend asked my opinion. I asked yours. I gave a polite and sensitive response to him - you told me to mind my own business while you minded mine.

Hmm, is there a logic error there?

 

[EdLongshanks]

Yesterday's screw-up can sometimes be tomorrow's success story.
Yesterday's gunner can sometimes be tomorrow's burn-out.

I fully agree with you there. I'm the one, after all, who ended up in sleeping in a cardboard box through my own stupidity. Had I started talking about going to med school then I would have been thought delusional. Some people think I'm delusional now - but I think that there is a difference.

I started to write what the difference is, but for some reason I can't find the words.

 

[Nasrudin]

Sure. Obviously. But if he doesn't try, then he'll spend the rest of his life wondering and wishing he'd tried. Plus suffering builds character.

It does. But to do it foolishly. At your own expense. That's the ****.

I think the foolish, angry, desolate, dreamer in this story, should just never wake up. What waits is worse.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Regardless my point is that it's a bell curve, which only moves a little bit to the right when you take out the rejections. You seem to be arguing that it's not a bell curve.

I think that the difference in the rejection and acceptance bell curves is the result of the few candidates who don't meet minimum requirements of the colleges that they apply to. If you removed those the two curves would probably be very similar.

I suspect that once you past the interview stage, the scores don't matter very much and it is all a soft judgement call from then on. Someone asked a question a few weeks ago "Do candidates with 38 MCATs and 3.8 GPA's really get turned down" the answer is YES. Many get turned down each year. They don't truly know why they are applying or their communication skills are non-existent.

It may be that the MCAT and GPA are almost comparable to a high jump set at 4.5 feet. It doesn't matter if you jump 4.6 or 5.8. The important thing is that you get over.

This is not to say that a 30 on the MCAT is no worse than a 33, but that 38 isn't much better than 34.

 

[EdLongshanks]

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

.

Doing a little number crunching on this. From 2005 to 2007 only 1% of the candidates with GPA's under 3.0 got in. The majority of those that did had MCATs over 27. In pure numbers, only 300 of <3.0 and <24 MCATs were accepted in 3 years anywhere in the United States.

I figure that these people had incredible stories, personalities, or fathers in the United States Senate.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I think that the difference in the rejection and acceptance bell curves is the result of the few candidates who don't meet minimum requirements of the colleges that they apply to. If you removed those the two curves would probably be very similar.

I suspect that once you past the interview stage, the scores don't matter very much and it is all a soft judgement call from then on. Someone asked a question a few weeks ago "Do candidates with 38 MCATs and 3.8 GPA's really get turned down" the answer is YES. Many get turned down each year. They don't truly know why they are applying or their communication skills are non-existent.

It may be that the MCAT and GPA are almost comparable to a high jump set at 4.5 feet. It doesn't matter if you jump 4.6 or 5.8. The important thing is that you get over.

This is not to say that a 30 on the MCAT is no worse than a 33, but that 38 isn't much better than 34.

lol

 

[BennieBlanco]

Doing a little number crunching on this. From 2005 to 2007 only 1% of the candidates with GPA's under 3.0 got in. The majority of those that did had MCATs over 27. In pure numbers, only 300 of <3.0 and <24 MCATs were accepted in 3 years anywhere in the United States.

I figure that these people had incredible stories, personalities, or fathers in the United States Senate.

what????

2.8-2.99 - 15%
2.6-2.79 - 11%
2.4-2.59 - 7%

Where did you get 1%. It is 1% with a 5-14 MCAT.

 

[BennieBlanco]

lol

actually 34 to 38 is a good jump. It is a whole new category on most MCAT charts.

 

[agirl]

deleted..

what????

2.8-2.99 - 15%
2.6-2.79 - 11%
2.4-2.59 - 7%

Where did you get 1%. It is 1% with a 5-14 MCAT.

 

[Dianyla]

My friend asked my opinion. I asked yours. I gave a polite and sensitive response to him - you told me to mind my own business while you minded mine.

Hmm, is there a logic error there?

The difference is that I actually told the truth when you asked me for my opinion.

 

[BennieBlanco]

The difference is that I actually told the truth when you asked me for my opinion.

OWNED LONG SHANKS!

 

[slight365]

Tell the guy to spend one whole semester in the library studying everyday (no classes) before enrolling back into school. No ****ing around; just finding his own reason to be, and leaving him to his own discretion. If he makes it and has something to show for it at the end of 3-4 months, then you will likely be speaking to someone who is a strong candidate for medicine.

 

[EdLongshanks]

The difference is that I actually told the truth when you asked me for my opinion.

No, the difference is that you enjoy being rude while I try to avoid it.

 

[BennieBlanco]

The other day I had a conversaton that I have a feeling many of you have had and I will have again. A friend told me that he intended to get into medical school.

The problem is that he has less chance of getting in than Barney Frank has of winning a conservative republican primary in Mississippi. He flunked out of Community College once, went one semester to another CC in another state and withdrew from all of those classes. Conversation with him is difficult because he can't express any interesting opinions and on top of all of this, he has a problem with his temper in stressful situations.

Don't get me wrong, these are his bad points. He has good points and I would like to retain his friendship, so I didn't tell him that he had no chance. I just told him the path that he needed to follow and acted like he could do all of this. I suggested an LPN path, since that would at least get him some income soon.

What do you all do in these cases?

I have a similar story, I was reading a post by Long Shanks and I saw many character flaws that I can't articulate. But I really like the Shanks so I also keep my mouth shut. I'm not quite sure what to do in these situations either. Any advice?

 

[Dianyla]

No, the difference is that you enjoy being rude while I try to avoid it.

I enjoy being honest, and I acknowledge that it can come across as tactless or rude. When I ask other people for advice, I want them to speak candidly and frankly to me. I don't need to be stroked or fluffed.

I fail to see the kindness in telling a polite fiction to your friend, and then coming online to talk about how utterly inferior you think he is.

 

[just one]

I enjoy being honest, and I acknowledge that it can come across as tactless or rude. When I ask other people for advice, I want them to speak candidly and frankly to me. I don't need to be stroked or fluffed.

I fail to see the kindness in telling a polite fiction to your friend, and then coming online to talk about how utterly inferior you think he is.

So owned!!

 

[Dianyla]

Guys, guys... I'm not trying to pwn anybody.

 

[just one]

Guys, guys... I'm not trying to pwn anybody.

You are just so good you do it without even trying

 

[Dianyla]

You are just so good you do it without even trying

I'd much rather that everyone just take ownership for their own actions, really!

 

[BennieBlanco]

 

[slight365]

No, the difference is that you enjoy being rude while I try to avoid it.

I think you're too sensitive for medicine.

 

[faith2]

If you are a true friend you will politely tell the truth. I notice that on SDN we have a lot of type A personalties, and it seems that some people are always looking for a debate or an arguement. Since we are all applying to med school it makes me wonder about the personalities of my future classmates. Honesty does not require a holier than though attitude or rude behavior. Most of us come to this site with the sincere hope of finding a support network and who knows....lasting friendships...at least that is what I hope to gain.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I enjoy being honest, and I acknowledge that it can come across as tactless or rude. When I ask other people for advice, I want them to speak candidly and frankly to me. I don't need to be stroked or fluffed.

I fail to see the kindness in telling a polite fiction to your friend, and then coming online to talk about how utterly inferior you think he is.

Which is not what I did and if you read the thread you would know that. Is it possible that you are not enjoying "telling the truth" but rather "scoring points"? I hope this is not a character trait that you will carry into the examination room. It probably is one that you will carry into consultations with other doctors. You'll probably be quite popular.

 

[womp]

Which is not what I did and if you read the thread you would know that. Is it possible that you are not enjoying "telling the truth" but rather "scoring points"? I hope this is not a character trait that you will carry into the examination room. It probably is one that you will carry into consultations with other doctors. You'll probably be quite popular.

+1.

I don't see any pwning going on, just one anal-retentive poster giving the OP, Longshanks, a hard time. I think a polite response as the OP stated is called for here, not the cold (and variable) truth. Sometimes it takes gradual momentum for an individual with a vague goal to get to where he wants; if the path from A to B is prematurely made too daunting and rigid, you risk suffocating any flame at the outset.

I enjoy being honest, and I acknowledge that it can come across as tactless or rude.

Being honest does not excuse one of being an arsehole either. There are certain times when you deal with patients where the absolute and unbarred truth can have devastating consequences, and a little tact becomes necessary. There's nothing absolute about this.

 

[Dianyla]

Which is not what I did and if you read the thread you would know that. Is it possible that you are not enjoying "telling the truth" but rather "scoring points"? I hope this is not a character trait that you will carry into the examination room. It probably is one that you will carry into consultations with other doctors. You'll probably be quite popular.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. I have read every post you made in this thread thoroughly. I am not trying to score points, despite the rabblerousers trying to cheer me on.

Being honest does not excuse one of being an arsehole either. There are certain times when you deal with patients where the absolute and unbarred truth can have devastating consequences, and a little tact becomes necessary. There's nothing absolute about this.

Oh, I totally agree.

EdLongshanks, the point I am trying to make in this thread is this:

If you prefer to follow the rule of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all", then do exactly that. Don't tell that person the awful truth. But don't go around telling that awful truth to a bunch of other people, behind your friend's back.

You could have phrased your posts differently, simply saying "A friend of mine wants to go to med school, but my personal opinion is that he's not a qualified candidate. What should I have told him?" Instead, you somehow felt the need to describe exactly how and why you think he's such a loser. That's why I find your posts tasteless and unkind.

If I do choose to say something true but unpleasant, I will say it directly to the person who can actually use the information. They are the one who actually needs to hear it. I can try to do it as constructively and kindly as possible, but I can't guarantee they won't feel stung by my words.

If your friend is serious about medschool, chances are pretty good that he will find his way onto SDN someday. How would your friend feel if he stumbled across this thread and read your descriptions of him? I can only speculate that he would feel more deeply hurt reading this than he would have felt if you had just been honest with him face to face.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I appreciate the vote of confidence. I have read every post you made in this thread thoroughly. I am not trying to score points, despite the rabblerousers trying to cheer me on.

Oh, I totally agree.

EdLongshanks, the point I am trying to make in this thread is this:

If you prefer to follow the rule of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all", then do exactly that. Don't tell that person the awful truth. But don't go around telling that awful truth to a bunch of other people, behind your friend's back.

You could have phrased your posts differently, simply saying "A friend of mine wants to go to med school, but my personal opinion is that he's not a qualified candidate. What should I have told him?" Instead, you somehow felt the need to describe exactly how and why you think he's such a loser. That's why I find your posts tasteless and unkind.

If I do choose to say something true but unpleasant, I will say it directly to the person who can actually use the information. They are the one who actually needs to hear it. I can try to do it as constructively and kindly as possible, but I can't guarantee they won't feel stung by my words.

If your friend is serious about medschool, chances are pretty good that he will find his way onto SDN someday. How would your friend feel if he stumbled across this thread and read your descriptions of him? I can only speculate that he would feel more deeply hurt reading this than he would have felt if you had just been honest with him face to face.

There is not a single identifying fact about my friend on this thread. I said nothing that is not true of tens of thousands of others. A few hundred of them post here asking questions like - "can I still hope..." etc. All of us who have declared our intention to go to med school get asked this on a regular basis. The purpose of my posting here was too express a common shared experience and find out how others handle it. Somehow, you turned a shared experience into an opportunity to be more righteous. I don't know if this was a one time happening or a habit of yours. I hope it wasn't a habit, because if so, I would hate to go to school with you.

There was nothing in my post about laughing behind my friend's back or secretly despising and simultaneously two-facing him. You read in something to my post that didn't exist. Others, who were more charitably turned, did not. It might be a good exercise for you to go back through the thread and find out why and where you started interpreting the posts wrongly. You might learn how to avoid those sorts of mistakes in the future.

Here is the real meaning of my post. I have stated it many times and you have to work real hard to interpret it any other way.

Unless we are a total cliquish, we all have friends that are probably not capable of getting into med-school without a super-human effort and they are not turned to zealousness in that way. At least a certain percentage of them will get a momentary urge to be a doctor. They come to people like us and ask this same question. We know that there is a difference between a dream and fantasy. Helping them see this difference is the act of a friend.

You can continue to be holier-than-thou and criticize me from the tops of your lofty "honesty" if you wish, but you might find out that you miss out on sharing with a group of people who have a common experience.

 

[Dianyla]

Unless we are a total cliquish, we all have friends that are probably not capable of getting into med-school without a super-human effort and they are not turned to zealousness in that way. At least a certain percentage of them will get a momentary urge to be a doctor. They come to people like us and ask this same question. We know that there is a difference between a dream and fantasy. Helping them see this difference is the act of a friend.

People like us? Who, their fellow neurotic premeds?

Until I actually get into med school, I hardly see myself as qualified to advise others on how to do it. And probably even after I get in, I still may not really understand the trick of it. So I've come full circle back to my first reply to you in this thread. Let the adcoms decide. It's not your job to tell your friend he can or can't get in, or that he should or shouldn't try.

 

[EdLongshanks]

People like us? Who, their fellow neurotic premeds?

Until I actually get into med school, I hardly see myself as qualified to advise others on how to do it. And probably even after I get in, I still may not really understand the trick of it. So I've come full circle back to my first reply to you in this thread. Let the adcoms decide. It's not your job to tell your friend he can or can't get in, or that he should or shouldn't try.

And other posters had a lot better responses. Yours wasn't worth repeating.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Until I actually get into med school, I hardly see myself as qualified to advise others on how to do it\.

I don't understand why you are posting in a forum that mainly deals in advice if you don't feel qualified to give it. Seems to be a lot of unqualified matter floating around here.

 

[Dianyla]

I don't understand why you are posting in a forum that mainly deals in advice if you don't feel qualified to give it.

Mmm, I have my reasons.