where are the men in psychiatry/mental health?

[vistaril]

Whatever you say, V.

even this pic you selected goes towards part of my original point. The authors of this ad campaign or poster or magazine or whatever wanted to sexually excite women for sure. So they find some great looking model with an incredible body and stage him how.....

Changing his kids diaper?

Scrubbing toilets?

Doing laundry?

Heck no.....they stage him doing the work of a man. Because that's going to turn women on more than demasculinizing him. The pattern is repeated over and over again.

Now guys like this are going to score excellent looking feminine women(or guys if that is their thing) just because they won the genetic lottery. But the rest of us normal guys in the real world can't afford to act like women and be treated like men by respectable women.

I would suggest you guys start paying more attention to how Hollywood markets stuff to women....it will give you appreciation for how women think and what they want.

Anyways, I'm out of this thread. It's been fun and some good banter.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Dr. Nemeroff is all that is man... the mustache still plays

 

[smalltownpsych]

even this pic you selected goes towards part of my original point. The authors of this ad campaign or poster or magazine or whatever wanted to sexually excite women for sure. So they find some great looking model with an incredible body and stage him how.....

Changing his kids diaper?

Scrubbing toilets?

Doing laundry?

Heck no.....they stage him doing the work of a man. Because that's going to turn women on more than demasculinizing him. The pattern is repeated over and over again.

Now guys like this are going to score excellent looking feminine women(or guys if that is their thing) just because they won the genetic lottery. But the rest of us normal guys in the real world can't afford to act like women and be treated like men by respectable women.

I would suggest you guys start paying more attention to how Hollywood markets stuff to women....it will give you appreciation for how women think and what they want.

Anyways, I'm out of this thread. It's been fun and some good banter.

The research is pretty clear on how testosterone plays a role in attraction so I think you are probably right that more women like men who have some male traits than do not, but what the hell does that have to do with the rest of the dumb things you touted like divvying up household chores? I am stronger than my wife, so I do the heavy lifting around the house, and I am sure that she prefers that to having a relationship with a man that doesn't have some physical strength. I would daresay that she even finds it sexy. Does that mean I can't also have compassion and empathy? Heck, I have more of that than she does, I like her because of her looks and intellect. Oh, and I think you are leaving out likely the most important of human characteristics of sexual attraction - intellect. I also do most of the cooking and I found out a long time ago that women like good cooks almost as much as they like good musicians. How many man points does that garner? I am confused.

 

[Ceke2002]

even this pic you selected goes towards part of my original point. The authors of this ad campaign or poster or magazine or whatever wanted to sexually excite women for sure. So they find some great looking model with an incredible body and stage him how.....

Changing his kids diaper?

Scrubbing toilets?

Doing laundry?

Heck no.....they stage him doing the work of a man. Because that's going to turn women on more than demasculinizing him. The pattern is repeated over and over again.

Now guys like this are going to score excellent looking feminine women(or guys if that is their thing) just because they won the genetic lottery. But the rest of us normal guys in the real world can't afford to act like women and be treated like men by respectable women.

I would suggest you guys start paying more attention to how Hollywood markets stuff to women....it will give you appreciation for how women think and what they want.

You don't really speak to a lot of women, do you. Oh no, wait, that's right, you're a 'real man' so women should obviously just shut up and conform to your sweeping generalisations.

Oh and by the way, a man who's comfortable enough in his male identity to turn around and give the middle finger to socially constructed gender norms will always be way more of a man to me than the sort of neolithic image of masculinity that you seem to be proposing.

 

[Ceke2002]

The research is pretty clear on how testosterone plays a role in attraction so I think you are probably right that more women like men who have some male traits than do not, but what the hell does that have to do with the rest of the dumb things you touted like divvying up household chores? I am stronger than my wife, so I do the heavy lifting around the house, and I am sure that she prefers that to having a relationship with a man that doesn't have some physical strength. I would daresay that she even finds it sexy. Does that mean I can't also have compassion and empathy? Heck, I have more of that than she does, I like her because of her looks and intellect. Oh, and I think you are leaving out likely the most important of human characteristics of sexual attraction - intellect. I also do most of the cooking and I found out a long time ago that women like good cooks almost as much as they like good musicians. How many man points does that garner? I am confused.

Let me have a crack at it...You have a loving, committed relationship based on mutual respect, and admiration, wherein you are both capable of recognising each other's strengths and weaknesses, thus each of you compliments the other and substantiates the whole. Vistaril does not have this, therefore d*ck size.

 

[touchpause13]

Oh boy.
This thread.

Idk whether or not to laugh or rage.

For the record I would say I'm attracted to confidence. Mr. Tp is a "real man" in the sense that he does what he enjoys and doesn't try to fit into some stupid mold. He's authentic, honest, hard working, can fix stuff, can cook, has long hair and an epic beard, is a feminist, is the most caring and overall good person I've ever met and now I'm going to stop listing things because I'm turning myself on.

Basically we have a relationship that is built on love and respect and we balance each other out. We do what works for us and don't try and fit into stupid gender roles.

But clearly the single, bitter guy who goes on the red pill has a better idea of how marriages should work :eyeroll:

 

[birchswing]

even this pic you selected goes towards part of my original point. The authors of this ad campaign or poster or magazine or whatever wanted to sexually excite women for sure. So they find some great looking model with an incredible body and stage him how.....

Changing his kids diaper?

Scrubbing toilets?

Doing laundry?

Heck no.....they stage him doing the work of a man. Because that's going to turn women on more than demasculinizing him. The pattern is repeated over and over again.

Now guys like this are going to score excellent looking feminine women(or guys if that is their thing) just because they won the genetic lottery. But the rest of us normal guys in the real world can't afford to act like women and be treated like men by respectable women.

I would suggest you guys start paying more attention to how Hollywood markets stuff to women....it will give you appreciation for how women think and what they want.

Anyways, I'm out of this thread. It's been fun and some good banter.

Wow. I was trying to see Vistaril's side, but I have to say the stuff about how to attract women smacks of the thought-process of a very young adolescent. So does the whole thing about what it means to be a real man. As I said before, these are developmental issues. These are the things 12-year-olds talk about.

For one thing, who said that picture was an advertisement and that it was designed to sexually excite women? Starting with that shaky premise, he says that you never see men like that in ads for things like laundry, etc. Except that there are beefcakes in all sorts of ads--the roto-rooter guy, the Brauny paper towel man, the maytag man.

What an adolescent-mind might not understand is that to most people, those ads are tongue-in-cheek.

What he is talking about is flash-in-the-pan attraction. There are advertisements with beefcakes. There's porn with beefcakes.

Serious people—adults—don't base lifelong relationships in which they form families on whether someone is a "10."

We have all been having a conversation with a person who is stuck in some early stage of psychosexual identity and treating it seriously.

Vistaril's image of being a man might be good for whatever stage of life he's in, but if I were a child, he's the last type of person I'd want as a father. If I were a woman, he's the last type of guy I'd be looking for.

Little boys who have never suffered grow up to be lazy doctors who stare at images of boobs and porsches on their computer monitors.

I'm a patient. I've seen it, while in session. There is no insight. There is far less than the level of human interaction you would expect with the average person on the street. The average homeless man on the street could intuit more about you than these types of psychiatrists.

Someone like Vistaril who knows so little about himself should not be treating patients.

I know he said he's not in the thread anymore but in case he sees this: are you even in supervision?

Between all this nonsense and the disdain you have for your prison population patients, I wish I could put someone like him out of practice.

There are real people in the world who are suffering. I can just see social workers right now with people in great suffering waiting on a psychiatrist to become available. A caring person who is waiting for an expert to help the weakest among us. And it makes me sick to think they're waiting for Vistaril.

 

[erg923]

Vistaril, the irony here is that you are talking about what women really want, how to look more more attractive and thus more desirable to them, AND doling out advice on how to handle interpersonal interactions with opposite sex, to people who are more successful at all the above variables than you appear to be thus far.

Is this not like taking advice from Keith Richards on how to stay away from drugs?

 

[michaelrack]

2 things, just for the record.

Real men don't practice medicine, and certainly not psychiatry.

with the exception of general/trauma surgeons

 

[vistaril]

Vistaril, the irony here is that you are talking about what women really want, how to look more more attractive and thus more desirable to them, AND doling out advice on how to handle interpersonal interactions with opposite sex, to people who are more successful at all the above variables than you appear to be thus far.

Is this not like taking advice from Keith Richards on how to stay away from drugs?

you're starting with a faulty premise here- that getting married or being in a long term relationship is defined as success. Getting married or being in long term monog relationships is not something lots of guys want, including myself. Furthermore, I don't know anything about most of the guys here....except that most don't seem to want to act like men. maybe they have success(but again marriage is far from a marker of success; in many cases it may be a negative) *in spite* of them taking the blue pill. In that case, their success would have been increased had they gone in the other direction.

Sort of like how Shawn Kemp had a much better nba career than Kyle Korver. But kyle korver's approach to the game made his nba career a lot better than it otherwise would have been, and the reverse for shawn kemp.

 

[smalltownpsych]

with the exception of general/trauma surgeons

Both of the ortho docs here at the hospital could kick my butt in arm wrestling and one is a woman! I guess that breaking bones for a living is manlier than having an office with lots of tissue boxes.

 

[erg923]

you're starting with a faulty premise here- that getting married or being in a long term relationship is defined as success. Getting married or being in long term monog relationships is not something lots of guys want, including myself. Furthermore, I don't know anything about most of the guys here....except that most don't seem to want to act like men. maybe they have success(but again marriage is far from a marker of success; in many cases it may be a negative) *in spite* of them taking the blue pill. In that case, their success would have been increased had they gone in the other direction.

Sort of like how Shawn Kemp had a much better nba career than Kyle Korver. But kyle korver's approach to the game made his nba career a lot better than it otherwise would have been, and the reverse for shawn kemp.

Yes, but you are framing so much of this around women, as someone articulated earlier. I really think this much more about women, and your relationship with them, than it is about manliness/masculinty. You want to "act like man" (and think everyone else should to), because thats what you think women want.

The irony being that our more flexible attitudes toward definitions of masculinity have landed us meaningful, mature, stable relationship with the opposite sex, whereas your inflexible approach has lead to instability, lack of fullfillment, and frustration.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Yes, but you are framing so much of this around women, as someone articulated earlier. I really think this much more about women, and your relationship with them, than it is about manliness/masculinty. You want to "act like man" (and think everyone else should to), because that what you think women want.

The irony being that our more flexible attitudes toward definitions of masculinity have landed us meaningful, mature, stable relationship with the opposite sex, whereas your inflexible approach has lead to instability, lack of fullfillment, and frustration.

I am wondering if much of this frustration and perspective is from insecurity from being unable to have success with the ladies. Even when I was a bachelor, I found that the sensitive caring approach netted me a lot of success with sexual relationships. Even of the one night stand variety. It's not lack of macho that keeps men in the friend zone it's fear of rejection.

 

[Salpingo]

you're starting with a faulty premise here- that getting married or being in a long term relationship is defined as success. Getting married or being in long term monog relationships is not something lots of guys want, including myself.

Yes! Regardless of where we come from ideologically, I think we can all agree on two things: 1) Western society has been in decline since polygamy ended and 2) Shawn Kemp is a basketball player according to Wikipedia.

Since true men sleep with a different woman every day of the week, I propose all men should have seven wives. We need to determine which ones are real, and women can't be trusted to decide (they might fallaciously choose based on "emotional compatibility" or "capacity to communicate beyond grunting"). Therefore, a prepose an annual "man-off".

This would be officiated by Vistaril, because while his AAA membership disqualifies him, he clearly is the best judge of character. It would consist of a series of Greco Roman wrestling, wood chopping, beer chugging, oil Greco Roman wrestling, Nascar watching, air conditioner repairing, a brief dance-off and finally, mud Greco Roman wrestling.

The winners would be given a pill (I guess?) and would most likely be composed of orthopods, the security guards, that really buff maintenance guy, and Vladimir Putin. The rest of us would do the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy in their honor.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Say what you will, there remains a sub set of women who are devoted to pursue the bad boys that Vistaril is characterizing. The worse guys treat them, the more attracted they are. Not a lot of them, but they are out there.

 

[vistaril]

Yes, but you are framing so much of this around women, as someone articulated earlier. I really think this much more about women, and your relationship with them, than it is about manliness/masculinty. You want to "act like man" (and think everyone else should to), because thats what you think women want.

The irony being that our more flexible attitudes toward definitions of masculinity have landed us meaningful, mature, stable relationship with the opposite sex, whereas your inflexible approach has lead to instability, lack of fullfillment, and frustration.

again your just making stuff up about my relationships with the opposite sex. Are you a psychic? For someone who talks frequently about all the clinical experience they have in understanding human behavior and emotions, you're not very adept at picking up where I'm at on this issue. Just because I'm not married or in a committed relationship doesn't mean I have lack of fulfillment or frustration in this area. In fact, I think I'd be unhappy in such a relationship. A committed relationship, and especially marriage, just seems like a bad deal all the way around, but I realize many guys differ on that issue

 

[erg923]

again your just making stuff up about my relationships with the opposite sex. Are you a psychic? For someone who talks frequently about all the clinical experience they have in understanding human behavior and emotions, you're not very adept at picking up where I'm at on this issue. Just because I'm not married or in a committed relationship doesn't mean I have lack of fulfillment or frustration in this area. In fact, I think I'd be unhappy in such a relationship. A committed relationship, and especially marriage, just seems like a bad deal all the way around, but I realize many guys differ on that issue

You frustration with women is all over the place in your posts (not just in this thread), you just havent actually written it explicitly in those words.

Although this is relatively close...

Great example- about 8 years ago I was driving my dad's car to the beach on a short vacation with a new girl. Flat tire about an hour from destin....so I remember my dad had aaa on the car and I call them to fix it. We wait 20 or so mins for the guy to show up and he does it and we get back on the road and everything is cool. Or at least I thought. But it wasn't- what she saw was a young guy standing there like a doofus waiting for a real man to come do real man work. I should have just fixed the flat myself. Part of it May have even been subconscious on her part(but probably not).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

When I have a question about Man Stuff…I just reference my Ron Swanson Pyramid of Greatness:

 

[vistaril]

You frustration with women is all over the place in your posts (not just in this thread), you just havent actually written it explicitly in those words.

Although this is relatively close...

No, this is you pretending to see things that aren't there in my words. The fact that you had to cite an example that happened eight years ago is evidence of this.

 

[erg923]

No, this is you pretending to see things that aren't there in my words. The fact that you had to cite an example that happened eight years ago is evidence of this.

OK. But obviously others agree/share a similar hypothesis. I guess ALL the psychiatrists in the room are wrong.

 

[vistaril]

Say what you will, there remains a sub set of women who are devoted to pursue the bad boys that Vistaril is characterizing. The worse guys treat them, the more attracted they are. Not a lot of them, but they are out there.

there is a big difference between being a 'bad boy' and just acting like a man. Women generally aren't attracted to incredibly antisocial or wreckless behavior. But they almost certainly will be turned off by the guy who appears to be trying to hard, trying to 'win them over', etc.....

 

[vistaril]

OK. But obviously others agree/share a similar hypothesis. I guess ALL the psychiatrists in the room are wrong.

My guess is(I actually know based on a couple of pms received) that all the psychiatrists don't share the same hypothesis. But the "but look who else may agree with me" argument is always a good go to

 

[erg923]

My guess is(I actually know based on a couple of pms received) that all the psychiatrists don't share the same hypothesis. But the "but look who else may agree with me" argument is always a good go to

Its true you may not want the type of realtionship that most others want, but I cant buy for a second that this thread is actually about your views on "masculinity." You convinced me of that long ago (what I started asking the question "what do you think this is about?")

 

[vistaril]

Its true you may not want the type of realtionship that most others want, but I cant buy for a second that this thread is actually actually about "masculinity." You convinced me of that long ago (what I started asking the question "what do you think this is about?")

What is so hard to believe about being bothered by an environment? It's no different than saying "gosh there is no good Chinese food in (insert city)", which would be something posted to a food forum and not a mental health forum for example.

 

[touchpause13]

When I have a question about Man Stuff…I just reference my Ron Swanson Pyramid of Greatness:

I have a feeling Ron Swanson would not consider v to be a real man

 

[erg923]

What is so hard to believe about being bothered by an environment?

Im sure seeing couples in loving relationships is hard for you, yes.

 

[billypilgrim37]

What is so hard to believe about being bothered by an environment? It's no different than saying "gosh there is no good Chinese food in (insert city)", which would be something posted to a food forum and not a mental health forum for example.

You might find it amazing that others don't see "Gosh, there are nothing but ******* in this field" and "Gosh, there is no good Chinese food in x city" as being all that comparable.

 

[billypilgrim37]

(I actually don't track down/look up personal info and pics of other posters in forums like this but to each their own)

Kinda just fell into it. Knew some folks at your program, came up incidentally, a google or two later with the med school you'd been talking about, voila! At that point, most of the forum thought you were a non-psychiatry resident troll, so at least I was confirming you were in fact a psychiatry resident, even though your comments made it abundantly clear that you didn't understand how much training at your self-proclaimed top 10 program in the Northeast vs at your program were so obviously different that none of us could believe it was true. And it wasn't.

On the other hand, plenty of us know each other "IRL" or at least in other contexts. And I've always been careful not to out you on the forum, because that wouldn't be fair, as you say things that would certainly be deemed inappropriate in many polite societies and would blackball you from some places, and it still should be an anonymous forum.

Interestingly, we recently hired a fellow who graduated a few years ago from your program ahead of you. He didn't know you/remember you (if he wound up being like your best friend, that was clearly going to be a bit of a red flag). He does happen to be married to a dermatology resident who fits the stereotype well (and seems really cool), and have to say I don't think he's beating any of us on your man-o-meter necessarily.

 

[smalltownpsych]

What's funny is that I tried to support some of V's initial contention as there is some truth there, but he destroys his own points by making gross over-generalizations to the point of ridiculosity. Makes for some good posts. I love the Pyramid. First time i saw that one. Also, V if you have more interest in attraction, there is a wealth of research about it and it supports that the concepts are not quite as simplistic and black and white as you have made it out to be.

 

[vistaril]

Kinda just fell into it. Knew some folks at your program, came up incidentally, a google or two later with the med school you'd been talking about, voila! At that point, most of the forum thought you were a non-psychiatry resident troll, so at least I was confirming you were in fact a psychiatry resident, even though your comments made it abundantly clear that you didn't understand how much training at your self-proclaimed top 10 program in the Northeast vs at your program were so obviously different that none of us could believe it was true. And it wasn't.

On the other hand, plenty of us know each other "IRL" or at least in other contexts. And I've always been careful not to out you on the forum, because that wouldn't be fair, as you say things that would certainly be deemed inappropriate in many polite societies and would blackball you from some places, and it still should be an anonymous forum.

Interestingly, we recently hired a fellow who graduated a few years ago from your program ahead of you. He didn't know you/remember you (if he wound up being like your best friend, that was clearly going to be a bit of a red flag). He does happen to be married to a dermatology resident who fits the stereotype well (and seems really cool), and have to say I don't think he's beating any of us on your man-o-meter necessarily.

I don't feel bad in the least about misrepresenting a few things(location, year). As I said earlier, changing such details for the purpose of pseuodanon are pretty common. If I had to do it again, I'd probably leave out the highly ranked misrepresentation. But the motivations for that were completely different than what they were attributed to(I'm pretty anti-academics in general as many know). I think if anything going to a program such as the one I did is actually much more representative of psychiatry and how it is practiced in this country outside a bubble(thus strengthening any argument) than a highly academic program in the northeast, but that's really a separate argument.

I think the idea that I say things that would be considered 'inappropriate in many polite societies' kinda goes to the initial post in this thread(where are the men in this field?)......because I certainly don't see anything innapropriate about them, and quite frankly wouldn't want to be part of any 'polite society' that would consider them as such. Now if you want to know what is innapropriate I can tell you about innapropriate....

There were probably 2-3 residents, maybe 1 attending who I'm positive you wouldn't know and wouldn't lurk this forum, and a couple other staff(and some people at my hospital not in psych) who knew me in any real way, so I certainly wouldn't expect to know any of the child fellows.

As for as outing and/or blackballing, anyone can pretty much find out who I am. It's not rocket science and it doesn't require a private investigator or anything special. Most people don't really care to do so for the same reason I don't care to go around finding out people's names/locations/whatever on this forum. As for fairness in 'outing me', I don't think you are using that word anywhere close to correctly in this situation. To 'out' someone implies that they are actively working to avoid detection. I don't think I've done any more to avoid anyone determining my identity than anyone else(why would I?), and in some cases reveal more personal info than others. The reason most people don't go around posting the names of individual posters isn't generally out of some desire to protect the poster(im not in the witness protection program), but because to do so is generally seen as lame behavior. If someone doesn't want to hire me because I make politically incorrect statements on an internet forum or because I like adult entertainment clubs.....well that's probably not the sort of place I want to work anyways.......seriously though I think the kind of jobs you(and some others on this forum) value are not the same kind of jobs I would want to work anyways, so it's really not an issue.

 

[notdeadyet]

I don't feel bad in the least about misrepresenting a few things(location, year). As I said earlier, changing such details for the purpose of pseuodanon are pretty common.

No, this isn't true. And it's clear from a basic background in human behavior.

When people are concerned about their anonymity, they protect it by not revealing detail; there is no incentive for folks to talk about their geographic location, level of training, and quality of program. When people make up details, they are not doing so for anonymity, they are doing so to further their position.

If you recall, you started talking about being a senior resident at a top 10 psych program in the Northeast after people were incredulous at your clinical judgment and questioned your training. You lied about being at a top 10 psych program in the Northeast as a response and referenced this several times when not asked. You were not protecting anonymity, you were lying about qualifications so that folks would take you more seriously.

When folks are caught in a lie and make up some bull$hit justification, I find it most helpful to look at the quality of the lie. In your case, in an alleged attempt to protect your anonymity, you chose to increase your level of training, place yourself in a geographic area known for high quality psychiatry, and claim to go to a top ten program. If you were truly lying for anonymity, you could have just said you go to a nondescript community program in the southwest and you'd be anonymous. Instead you were insecure and wanted to make yourself into something you're not.

You remind me of folks who lie about their military service. Everyone claims to have been doing secret squirrel missions in Vietnam. No one ever lies about having been the camp cook.

 

[notdeadyet]

I don't feel bad in the least about misrepresenting a few things(location, year). As I said earlier, changing such details for the purpose of pseuodanon are pretty common.

...
As for fairness in 'outing me', I don't think you are using that word anywhere close to correctly in this situation. To 'out' someone implies that they are actively working to avoid detection. I don't think I've done any more to avoid anyone determining my identity than anyone else(why would I?)

From the same post. Oh irony...

 

[vistaril]

From the same post. Oh irony...

the following aren't hard concepts to follow:

1) I had to identity myself as a psych resident and would rather not come out and say "I'm so and so in a public forum"(but again it's not a huge deal...it's just rather lame to do so). Not providing *any* details in that situation would have been deemed inadequate. But yes, if I had to do it over again I would have probably only changed the location and still year. Of course, the fact that I went to a program that is a pretty typical program(not huge but not tiny, attached to a fairly large academic hospital, research opportunities but most grads do clinical work in the community) if anything adds strength to the arguments I were making at the time because my position was essentially that my experiences do reflect in many ways the typical practice of community psychiatry. Furthermore, even had I only changed the location(and say picked a program in the southwest or Midwest) it still could easily be found out that such information is not accurate. Bothering to look people up in an internet forum like this, especially given the context, is pretty lame imo. But it's one of the things people should be aware of, which is I why it's a good idea not to post anything one wouldn't want seen. There *are* a lot of things I don't post on here that I wouldn't want others to see for example.....which is why I don't post them. Complaining about some of the sorry practices I see in the community, or the fact that other people make a lot more money, or problems with modern psychiatry are not things I am bothered by others reading.

2) Almost everyone here conceals their identity to some degree. Including you(I don't see you signing your name with each post either). That doesn't mean you are doing a lot to conceal your identity. I post in 2 other different forums(one a financial forum, one a cars forum) and I don't say "I'm so and so" there either. Of course they don't know Im a psychiatrist, which gives one more freedom to be truthful with certain facts(since there wouldn't be a starting point for a search). In my cars forum for example, if I owned a yellow lambo I probably wouldn't be as likely to accurately state where I live because there are only so many yellow lambos where I live.

 

[erg923]

"Real men" post identifying information on ananoymous Internet forums.

 

[nancysinatra]

I guess ALL the psychiatrists in the room are wrong.

It wouldn't be the first time. By the way, if the year were 1960 and Vistaril was defending homosexuality, you would be here defending the viewpoint that being gay is a mental illness requiring psychotherapy.

It's all the same patriarchy. Just by virtue of the fact that you are on SDN, a website catering to a highly conventional group of professionals, shows you are hardly some counter cultural radical out to change society's archaic stereotypes. Those people do not spend their time on SDN bragging about what sensitive new age men they are.

I also find it interesting that most of the people posting here and rolling their eyes seem to be men, and most of their objections to vistaril's claim don't even purport to care about, let alone know, what goes on in the minds/hearts of actual women. In fact it seems that what most of the "male feminists" here actually object to is NOT the sexist characterization of women as June Cleaver inspired domestic automotons, but rather the idea that men with poor arm strength should be ashamed.

If the shoe fits...

For the record, what most women really drool over is a guy with a British accent.

 

[billypilgrim37]

In fact it seems that what most of the "male feminists" here actually object to is NOT the sexist characterization of women as June Cleaver inspired domestic automotons, but rather the idea that men with poor arm strength should be ashamed.

The absurdity of his characterizations of women were ridiculous enough to speak for themselves. What else needed to be said? I lost any faith in reasoning after his rants about gays and trans folks. The point of responding to vistaril isn't so much because we are going to convince him how despicable some of the things he says are. I'm not sure what the point is, but it's not that.

I'm not going to speculate on what women want because a) I'm not a woman, and b) last time I checked, women were individuals and want all kinds of different things. Though, yeah, the British accent is probably as close to a near-universal as one could propose.

Maybe it just rubs us a bit when such a phony tries to act like he's so superior (at least for reasons other than the way the rest of us act like we're so superior). I don't know what his motivations for being here are, or what his motivations for starting such a ridiculous thread are. He knows it's going to be a train wreck.

 

[nancysinatra]

The absurdity of his characterizations of women were ridiculous enough to speak for themselves. What else needed to be said? I lost any faith in reasoning after his rants about gays and trans folks. The point of responding to vistaril isn't so much because we are going to convince him how despicable some of the things he says are. I'm not sure what the point is, but it's not that.

I'm not going to speculate on what women want because a) I'm not a woman, and b) last time I checked, women were individuals and want all kinds of different things. Though, yeah, the British accent is probably as close to a near-universal as one could propose.

Maybe it just rubs us a bit when such a phony tries to act like he's so superior (at least for reasons other than the way the rest of us act like we're so superior). I don't know what his motivations for being here are, or what his motivations for starting such a ridiculous thread are. He knows it's going to be a train wreck.

Well as they say, two wrongs don't make a right...

I haven't seen the gay or trans threads. I have to confess I don't come to this site for the trenchant sociological commentary ;-)

 

[Ibid]

Dinesh Bhugra, MD. the first openly gay president of the World Psychiatric Association and good thing as well. When the APA was full of WASPs being gay will a sickness. Imagine calling into work sick..... sorry I can't come in today i'm feeling a bit gay.....

 

[erg923]

It wouldn't be the first time. By the way, if the year were 1960 and Vistaril was defending homosexuality, you would be here defending the viewpoint that being gay is a mental illness requiring psychotherapy.

It's all the same patriarchy. Just by virtue of the fact that you are on SDN, a website catering to a highly conventional group of professionals, shows you are hardly some counter cultural radical out to change society's archaic stereotypes. Those people do not spend their time on SDN bragging about what sensitive new age men they are.

I also find it interesting that most of the people posting here and rolling their eyes seem to be men, and most of their objections to vistaril's claim don't even purport to care about, let alone know, what goes on in the minds/hearts of actual women. In fact it seems that what most of the "male feminists" here actually object to is NOT the sexist characterization of women as June Cleaver inspired domestic automotons, but rather the idea that men with poor arm strength should be ashamed.

If the shoe fits...

For the record, what most women really drool over is a guy with a British accent.

Nancy, the guy served up Psych 101 here and some of us swung. This aint grand work. More like "theme tracing" as the Rorschachers and TATers used to say.

 

[vistaril]

The absurdity of his characterizations of women were ridiculous enough to speak for themselves. What else needed to be said? I lost any faith in reasoning after his rants about gays and trans folks. The point of responding to vistaril isn't so much because we are going to convince him how despicable some of the things he says are. I'm not sure what the point is, but it's not that.
/QUOTE]

These are only rants if you are coming from a perspective of the top 0.001 percent of political correctness.
My initial post in this thread wasn't to indicate these guys in psychiatry without any masculine attributes were bad people or character deficient or even bad psychiatrists. It was just an observation....it would be nice to go to work and talk with other guys about hunting or shooting or other manly interests of many types. Instead fellow xys in mental health are talking about some tv show meant for women or how they are tired because they had to get up last night twice to feed their daughter....

But I fully realize this environment(a bunch of mostly male mental health workers) is you guys turf on this issue.....I've gone into enemy territory..... hence the original post. Trust me if there was a forum for some of the contractors I work with they would believe I'm some combination of a feminist lesbian and....well another feminist lesbian. Different extremes.....

 

[Ibid]

I'm not going to speculate on what women want because a) I'm not a woman, and b) last time I checked, women were individuals and want all kinds of different things. Though, yeah, the British accent is probably as close to a near-universal as one could propose..

Doesn't work so well if you are actually a native in the UK i'm sad to report :-( I think a Tennessee accent is what UK women are after..... or something like that.... apparently....

 

[vistaril]

Nancy, the guy served up Psych 101 here and some of us swung. This aint grand work. More like "theme tracing" as the Rorschachers and TATers used to say.

No wonder it is easy to hit-You swung at your own projections.

As an aside, I'm not surprised the femimale psychs would team up on me in this thread, but on several occasions in the past I've defended you pretty strongly on a number of occasions when other psychiatrists(including a couple in this thread I believe) questioned what you were doing in a psychiatrist forum and pulled the usual md/psychiatrist card out to defend their position vs yours.....I always thought that was bs and have said as much.

 

[Cinclus]

Say what you will, there remains a sub set of women who are devoted to pursue the bad boys that Vistaril is characterizing. The worse guys treat them, the more attracted they are. Not a lot of them, but they are out there.

First thing I thought of was this:

[YOUTUBE]

 

[Wilf]

I agree with vistaril. People think they are so enlightened these days by going against the biology of gender. It's one of many reasons that people are generally not happy at this time. I really hope that one day people get back their common sense and it stops being "trendy" to go against nature.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Dinesh Bhugra, MD. the first openly gay president of the World Psychiatric Association and good thing as well. When the APA was full of WASPs being gay will a sickness. Imagine calling into work sick..... sorry I can't come in today i'm feeling a bit gay.....

When the APA was full of white Anglo-Saxon Protestants (a derogatory term, BTW, used by cultural Marxists to denigrate America's historic people?) You think the reason the APA now condones homosexuality is the influence of nonwhites, non-Anglo-Saxons, and non-Protestants? In case you haven't noticed, even the vast majority of "WASPs" in the upper echelons of modern liberal society are culturally suidical liberals who are fully on board with the "gay" program. Homophilia didn't happen because nice nonwhite people "defeated" those mean and nasty whites. It happened because Western society lost its mind, and the madness of liberalism can't go on forever...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

When the APA was full of white Anglo-Saxon Protestants (a derogatory term, BTW, used by cultural Marxists to denigrate America's historic people?) You think the reason the APA now condones homosexuality is the influence of nonwhites, non-Anglo-Saxons, and non-Protestants? In case you haven't noticed, even the vast majority of "WASPs" in the upper echelons of modern liberal society are culturally suidical liberals who are fully on board with the "gay" program. Homophilia didn't happen because nice nonwhite people "defeated" those mean and nasty whites. It happened because Western society lost its mind, and the madness of liberalism can't go on forever...

Ah, man, you have not changed. I guess you can hang out with these people --

http://www.narth.org

 

[Trismegistus4]

Ah, man, you have not changed. I guess you can hang out with these people --

http://www.narth.org

I'm not a mainstream conservative, and regard mainstream social conservatives as naive and ineffectual at best. You probably have a whole host of incorrect assumptions about me. I don't think homosexuality is an illness in the conventional sense, nor do I have any particular reason to think it can be cured or prevented. My position is not that we should seek to eradicate homosexuality, but simply that homosexuality should be kept "in the closet" as it used to be. If that means homosexuals aren't quite happy, oh well, sucks to be them.

 

[vistaril]

I'm not a mainstream conservative, and regard mainstream social conservatives as naive and ineffectual at best. You probably have a whole host of incorrect assumptions about me. I don't think homosexuality is an illness in the conventional sense, nor do I have any particular reason to think it can be cured or prevented. My position is not that we should seek to eradicate homosexuality, but simply that homosexuality should be kept "in the closet" as it used to be. If that means homosexuals aren't quite happy, oh well, sucks to be them.

I respect that stance, but I'm more of a libertarian...do your own thing and as long as it doesn't bother me it's cool is my motto. The most freedom for everyone is what I want.

The problem a lot of the alt lifestyle crowd isn't interested in freedom, liberty, etc....they are interested in control and restricting choice and freedom. Not good things IMOIMO

 

[Armadillos]

i have plenty of respect for Libertarians, but nothing despises me more than a Rand Paul "libertarian"

 

[Leo Aquarius]