Where do we draw the line?????

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I just finished the required Diversity, Equity and Inclusion training at our hospital. During the training I was told that we are to accept that when a coworker has a family matter such as child care issues or dealing with an ill spouse or parent and needs to come in late or miss work that we are not to question their dedication to their work and treat them no differently from any other worker. I have a question that I wanted to get others opinion. Given the current political climate I would not raise the question during the training but at what point does not making any arrangement to deal with the issue if it becomes longstanding cease becoming the problem of coworkers who have to pick up the slack? In my career I have seen colleagues with spouses or parents on their "death bed" for 5-10 years and having to come late, leave early or call in to deal with them. I am compassionate and for a short term I will do whatever possible to help a colleague but at some point it is obvious that we are getting taken advantage of.
I have known others who have taken less than full time jobs because they are open that their family comes first and they are satisfied with their lives.
Thoughts?
Two things can be true
- OP, this is some craven, self centered **** right here
- it's a two way street and anyone who cant or won't do a 100% full-time gig with a normal/reasonable amount of sick/family time should do a time share or 80% or part time gig or whatever

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I am glad I trained when I did. We had a single mom resident who always got to go home early. Had one attending question this by saying

“hey you just got married, you should get to go home before the single mom so you have “extra time” to start your family.”

you would be fired for saying that today.
What is this crap? Lots of people in my residency with kids. Lots of them had kids during residency. I never saw any of this "leave early all the time" stuff happen. We all just suffered on together.
 
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Oh dude, I was definitely not trying to do that. I was just typing lazily. I'm Army btw, 1on1 supervision is where it's at. Peace.
Where do you do 1 on 1 supervision. I need me some of that action
 
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Army is pretty broad term.. Thats like sayin, where do you work, "In north america"..
That’s idiotic. Because that’s how the Army anywhere does their program. Sign up as an anesthesiologist and officer and you too will supervise one on one in an academic setting anywhere in North America.
 
The way to handle this stuff is treat everyone equally. If residents need mental health days then all residents get 5 days. If residents need paid FMLA then all residents get paid FMLA or call it personal need time. Those residents needing more time off should be required to make it up period.

This is the way it should be across the board for all groups as well. Nobody gets special treatment unless everyone gets the same treatment. So, if the policy rewards a special class of people then it’s unfair. That’s my point. If society wants to give more time off to all workers including highly paid ones then so be it.

But, we all know that is not how it works in the real world. There are special classes of people and the work load is rarely equally split among the workers/employees or residents. Despite that reality we should still aim for fairness whenever possible.

My advice to those who experience unfair treatment is to just deal with it. The world isn’t a fair place and you can excel despite unfair treatment. If for some reason you believe unfairness is due to discrimination or bigotry then that needs to be reported. But, in general from what I’ve seen over my life any unfairness is due to those in power actually believing they are doing the right thing by helping certain individuals out even if it causes the rest to bear the burden.
 
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Mommy track jobs exist. There's nothing wrong with them. If you want that kind of arrangement, seek it out.

Two of the best anesthesiologists I've known were women who split a full time position between them. They had great lifestyles and no one resented them.

We don't need laws to give physicians paid time off for life stuff. If you don't like the work-life balance at your job, or if your colleagues suck and take advantage of you, or you can't take a few months of leave when a child is born, get a better job. Half-time jobs for a mere $200K are eeeeeeverywhere. Locums jobs for a week or two here and there are eeeeeeverywhere.
But there are more and more laws being passed regarding FMLA all the time. You know this from your military experience. Today at the Veteran’s administration the government has mandated paid FMLA for those having children. For people like PGG who have grown children he would be required to fill the gap while his colleagues enjoyed paid FMLA to have children.

To those who don’t want children or won’t be having any more this creates a huge inequity in the system. Rather than ignore the inequity let’s at least call it out for what it is. Why should someone like PGG be treated differently regarding paid time off than his colleagues?

Vector 2 misses my point in that I am advocating for PGG to receive equal treatment in whatever policy is decided upon by those in power. I am not against the concept of paying employees for their FMLA but I am against making the benefit so restrictive that It clearly favors one group over the rest.
 
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Vector 2 misses my point in that I am advocating for PGG to receive equal treatment in whatever policy is decided upon by those in power. I am not against the concept of paying employees for their FMLA but I am against making the benefit so restrictive that It clearly favors one group over the rest.

Here's what FMLA says

-----------

Rights during leave[edit]​

Employees can have up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave for child birth, adoption, to care for a close relative in poor health, or because of an employee's own poor health.[16] In full, the purposes for leave are:

  • to care for a new child, whether for the birth, the adoption, or placement of a child in foster care;
  • to care for a seriously ill family member (spouse, son, daughter, or parent) (Note: Son/daughter has been clarified by the Department of Labor to mean a child under the age of 18 or a child over the age of 18 with a mental or physical disability as defined by the Americans With Disabilities Act, which excludes, among other conditions, pregnancy and post-partum recovery from childbirth);[17]
  • to recover from a worker's own serious illness;
  • to care for an injured service member in the family; or
  • to address qualifying exigencies arising out of a family member's deployment.
  • twenty-six workweeks of leave during a single 12-month period to care for a covered servicemember with a serious injury or illness if the eligible employee is the servicemember's spouse, son, daughter, parent, or next of kin (military caregiver leave).[18]
------------

It's pretty fair, all things considered.


The broader point is that having to take time off to care for a newborn or care for a sick family member should be in a different category than taking time off for vacation. That is obviously an opinion based on my personal ethical and philosophical principles, but I think it's a defensible one inasfar as the notion that not making people choose between gainful employment and having children, or not making them choose between gainful employment and taking care of a loved one.... is a subjectively "good" thing and carries a higher moral prerogative than leave for any reason.

If we continue to flood our country with low wage jobs and make the social support system worse, very soon we'll be seeing headlines here like they do in Japan about the birth rate hitting record lows to the point that it's under the death rate. But hey, at least everyone will have an equal amount of leave as the number of young Americans who can actually support our aging population keeps shrinking....
 
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Here's what FMLA says

-----------

Rights during leave[edit]​

Employees can have up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave for child birth, adoption, to care for a close relative in poor health, or because of an employee's own poor health.[16] In full, the purposes for leave are:

  • to care for a new child, whether for the birth, the adoption, or placement of a child in foster care;
  • to care for a seriously ill family member (spouse, son, daughter, or parent) (Note: Son/daughter has been clarified by the Department of Labor to mean a child under the age of 18 or a child over the age of 18 with a mental or physical disability as defined by the Americans With Disabilities Act, which excludes, among other conditions, pregnancy and post-partum recovery from childbirth);[17]
  • to recover from a worker's own serious illness;
  • to care for an injured service member in the family; or
  • to address qualifying exigencies arising out of a family member's deployment.
  • twenty-six workweeks of leave during a single 12-month period to care for a covered servicemember with a serious injury or illness if the eligible employee is the servicemember's spouse, son, daughter, parent, or next of kin (military caregiver leave).[18]
------------



The broader point is that having to take time off to care for a newborn or care for a sick family member should be in a different category than taking time off for vacation. That is obviously an opinion based on my personal ethical and philosophical principles, but I think it's a defensible one inasfar as the notion that not making people choose between gainful employment and having children, or not making them choose between gainful employment and taking care of a loved one.... is a subjectively "good" thing and carries a higher moral prerogative than leave for any reason.

If we continue to flood our country with low wage jobs and make the social support system worse, very soon we'll be seeing headlines here like they do in Japan about the birth rate hitting record lows to the point that it's under the death rate. But hey, at least everyone will have an equal amount of leave as the number of young Americans who can actually support our aging population keeps shrinking....

The idea that young people should support the population is wrong in and of itself. What happened to personal responsibility?
 
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The idea that young people should support the population is wrong in and of itself. What happened to personal responsibility?

There's the way things should be and the way things are. But I guess we could just go back to the good old days where we sent 7 year olds to factories and handed old people a can of beans before moving them to a Hooverville.





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The idea that young people should support the population is wrong in and of itself. What happened to personal responsibility?
There isn’t a nation on earth that follows cutthroat libertarianism to a degree that would satisfy you if you think saving months of pay while being pregnant is some form of personal responsibility.

don’t act like having a child and taking Fmla is some damn vacation… how long has it been since anyone espousing this had to take care of a newborn? If it is such an injustice go have a kid yourself to get even with the system.
 
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I have no issues with unpaid FMLA but I believe the push is underway to make FMLA paid time off. I think rewarding certain groups with 8-12 weeks of paid time off for personal reasons is unfair to others who don’t qualify for that same benefit.
I fully expect paid FMLA to become law with this administration but perhaps a compromise could be reached into how much of the time is paid vs unpaid.

While I fully support families and the notion mom’s should be allowed to take time off for their kids I also understand the ramifications of paid FMLA to their fellow employees and their employers.
 
I have no issues with unpaid FMLA but I believe the push is underway to make FMLA paid time off. I think rewarding certain groups with 8-12 weeks of paid time off for personal reasons is unfair to others who don’t qualify for that same benefit.
I fully expect paid FMLA to become law with this administration but perhaps a compromise could be reached into how much of the time is paid vs unpaid.

While I fully support families and the notion mom’s should be allowed to take time off for their kids I also understand the ramifications of paid FMLA to their fellow employees and their employers.

Do you think it's fair that veterans qualify for the GI bill and free rides to state universities while other civil servants don't?
 
Vector 2 I was thinking of Biden’s paid FMLA proposal when I posted my comments:

President Joe Biden has proposed requiring employers to provide 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave through a new federally funded program, expanding on current requirements for employers to provide unpaid leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA).

If the paid-leave provisions of Biden's American Families Plan (AFP) are enacted, employers will need to factor new paid-leave requirements into their workforce planning.
 
Do you think it's fair that veterans qualify for the GI bill and free rides to state universities while other civil servants don't?
Yes I do. The Gi bill is available to everyone who is willing to serve in the military. It doesn’t discriminate on the basis of sex, religion, gender identity, etc. The Gi bill should be considered a benefit because the salary for most enlisted service people is quite low.

I consider this Gi Bill a type of benefit that enlisted people deserve along with their retirement plans and health benefits. They accept a lower salary and agree to be deployed anywhere in the world so those Benefits are well deserved.
 
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Yes I do. The Gi bill is available to everyone who is willing to serve in the military. It doesn’t discriminate on the basis of sex, religion, gender identity, etc. The Gi bill should be considered a benefit because the salary for most enlisted service people is quite low.

I consider this Gi Bill a type of benefit that enlisted people deserve along with their retirement plans and health benefits. They accept a lower salary and agree to be deployed anywhere in the world so those Benefits are well deserved
Look at the bolded. You've chosen to pick one group of government employees (who *chose* to do something) over another group of government employees who chose to do something else, but yet only one group is getting a special benefit. There are plenty of low paying civil and federal servants whose departments greatly benefit this country and our society, and they don't get to go to a 4yr college for free like veterans.

You are making a subjective value judgment on why one group deserves something over another group. You might make a very compelling case about veterans deserving those benefits, but ultimately it's still subjective. People who value the FMLA (and the idea of people taking care of their newborns and sick family members) are doing the same.
 
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Look at the bolded. You've chosen to pick one group of government employees (who *chose* to do something) over another group of government employees who chose to do something else, but yet only one group is getting a special benefit. There are plenty of low paying civil and federal servants whose departments greatly benefit this country and our society, and they don't get to go to a 4yr college for free like veterans.

You are making a subjective value judgment on why one group deserves something over another group. You might make a very compelling case about veterans deserve those benefits, but ultimately it's still subjective. People who value the FMLA (and the idea of people taking care of their newborns and sick family members) are doing the same.
Yes, I agree with your point about making a judgment call and valuing the service and dedication provided by our enlisted service people. Those who risk their lives to defend our freedom and protect our country while receiving low wages deserve all the benefits they get. This is in contrast to a civil servant sitting in an a/c office complaining about the bad coffee in the break room. When your only risk at a job is getting a paper cut vs. having your legs blown off or being killed in the line of duty I truly think the benefits should be different. My neighbor’s son never made it home from Afghanistan. He was killed while performing a non combat duty in a supposedly safe zone. He had a wife and 2 kids who will never see him again.

Sorry, but those who serve and protect us from harm deserve all the benefits we currently bestow plus our eternal gratitude.
 
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Yes, I agree with your point about making a judgment call and valuing the service and dedication provided by our enlisted service people. Those who risk their lives to defend our freedom and protect our country while receiving low wages deserve all the benefits they get. This is in contrast to a civil servant sitting in an a/c office complaining about the bad coffee in the break room. When your only risk at a job is getting a paper cut vs. having your legs blown off or being killed in the line of duty I truly think the benefits should be different. My neighbor’s son never made it home from Afghanistan. He was killed while performing a non combat duty in a supposedly safe zone. He had a wife and 2 kids who will never see him again.

Sorry, but those who serve and protect us from harm deserve all the benefits we currently bestow plus our eternal gratitude.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the large majority of those who serve in the military aren't typically in persistent corporeal danger. OTOH, a CBP or DEA agent who faces a real threat of narco violence day in and day out doesn't qualify for 4 yrs of free college or the cash equivalent. Same goes for the IRS agent say whose ability to pick up a few million from a tax cheat ended up funding the last part of the drone plane that tracked Bin Laden's courier. As I said, plenty of civil and federal servants make very valuable contributions without the same remuneration as vets.

Ultimately, you have a subjective opinion that service members deserve special benefits because the military ensures Americans continue to exist for the foreseeable future. Do you know what else ensures that Americans exist for the foreseeable future? Making sure Americans are incentivized to create more Americans than the number who die every year.
 
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Yes, I agree with your point about making a judgment call and valuing the service and dedication provided by our enlisted service people. Those who risk their lives to defend our freedom and protect our country while receiving low wages deserve all the benefits they get. This is in contrast to a civil servant sitting in an a/c office complaining about the bad coffee in the break room. When your only risk at a job is getting a paper cut vs. having your legs blown off or being killed in the line of duty I truly think the benefits should be different. My neighbor’s son never made it home from Afghanistan. He was killed while performing a non combat duty in a supposedly safe zone. He had a wife and 2 kids who will never see him again.

Sorry, but those who serve and protect us from harm deserve all the benefits we currently bestow plus our eternal gratitude.
But if his widow gets breast cancer or one of her children is critically injured she shouldn’t get to sustain her income with fmla because that isn’t fair to people who don’t have cancer or critically injured kids right?
 
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the large majority of those who serve in the military aren't typically in persistent corporeal danger. OTOH, a CBP or DEA agent who faces a real threat of narco violence day in and day out doesn't qualify for 4 yrs of free college or the cash equivalent. Same goes for the IRS agent say whose ability to pick up a few million from a tax cheat ended up funding the last part of the drone plane that tracked Bin Laden's courier. As I said, plenty of civil and federal servants make very valuable contributions without the same remuneration as vets.

Ultimately, you have a subjective opinion that service members deserve special benefits because the military ensures Americans continue to exist for the foreseeable future. Do you know what else ensures that Americans exist for the foreseeable future? Making sure Americans are incentivized to create more Americans than the number who die every year.
I support law enforcement, DEA, CBP, etc but I don’t decide their benefit package. They have better compensstion overall than military service people. I guessed you missed my comment about the death of my neighbor’s son who was in a non combat role inside a safe zone. He was killed in Afghanistan serving his country.

We as a nation make our laws through our elected representatives. I do not support paid FMLA unless the company decides to bear that burden directly. Taxpayer money should not be used to pay for private sector employees.

As for the benefits other civil servants receive I’ll leave that up to their unions to get the most amount of money/benefits from us the taxpayers.

We view the role of government in our society from different perspectives. I believe in a minimal federal government with more state and local control over how taxpayer money is spent. Ill leave it up to PGG to comment on why the average enlisted person who volunteers to serve his/her country deserves every penny and benefit they receive from us.
 
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But if his widow gets breast cancer or one of her children is critically injured she shouldn’t get to sustain her income with fmla because that isn’t fair to people who don’t have cancer or critically injured kids right?
I don’t think the US taxpayer should have to fund a private sector companies FMLA plan. if you want to expand the safety net then that is not the same as a federally funded FMLA for some of the richest companies in the world.

As for healthcare Vector 2 has his ACA with huge federal subsidies in place along with Medicaid. Poor Children also have their own federally supported healthcare
 
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I don’t think the US taxpayer should have to fund a private sector companies FMLA plan. if you want to expand the safety net then that is not the same as a federally funded FMLA for some of the richest companies in the world.
Just above you said you don’t believe in paid fmla period. You frame you argument as one of equity but people using fmla have a problem nobody wants to have. It is the same reason I don’t envy people who qualify for Medicare before 65 because they need dialysis—I’m not angry my taxes pay for it.
 
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Just above you said you don’t believe in pod fmla period. You frame you argument as one of equity but people using fmla have a problem nobody wants to have. It is the same reason I don’t envy people who qualify for Medicare before 65 because they need dialysis—I’m not angry my taxes pay for it.
I’m not angry about FMLA. I don’t really like it but I accept it as law and reality. Currently, FMLA is unpaid by most companies but some are offering paid FMLA. This is not funded by taxpayer money. Once FMLA becomes a paid benefit many more people will use it regularly. This means some groups will benefit more than others. That was my point. I oppose taxpayer funded FMLA. Private sector employers can offer paid FMLA to their employees as A benefit.

 
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I’m not angry about FMLA. I don’t really like it but I accept it as law and reality. Currently, FMLA is unpaid by most companies but some are offering paid FMLA. This is not funded by taxpayer money. Once FMLA becomes a paid benefit many more people will use it regularly. This means some groups will benefit more than others. That was my point. I oppose taxpayer funded FMLA. Private sector employers can offer paid FMLA to their employees as A benefit.

So you don’t even like unpaid fmla? You think it is going to be abused on what grounds?

serious question—did you ever have a personal or immediate family member who had a serious illness that required you to take a month or more off work? When your children were born did you take time off work?
 
So you don’t even like unpaid fmla? You think it is going to be abused on what grounds?

serious question—did you ever have a personal or immediate family member who had a serious illness that required you to take a month or more off work? When your children were born did you take time off work?


I used my personal time known as vacation time. I accept the FMLA as law but the world functioned just fine prior to 1993. My personal opinion on FMLA is only relevant as it pertains to paid FMLA as that is part of Biden’s proposals to spend trillions more. Each employer is free to decide how much time is paid or unpaid when utilizing FMLA. Please notice how many employers favor one group over others when paying for time off related to FMLA.


 
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I support law enforcement, DEA, CBP, etc but I don’t decide their benefit package. They have better compensstion overall than military service people. I guessed you missed my comment about the death of my neighbor’s son who was in a non combat role inside a safe zone. He was killed in Afghanistan serving his country.

We as a nation make our laws through our elected representatives. I do not support paid FMLA unless the company decides to bear that burden directly. Taxpayer money should not be used to pay for private sector employees.

As for the benefits other civil servants receive I’ll leave that up to their unions to get the most amount of money/benefits from us the taxpayers.

We view the role of government in our society from different perspectives. I believe in a minimal federal government with more state and local control over how taxpayer money is spent. Ill leave it up to PGG to comment on why the average enlisted person who volunteers to serve his/her country deserves every penny and benefit they receive from us.
Again, you haven't really provided anything which invalidates the point I made, namely that that are plenty of other federal employees who are in danger, or who make very valuable contributions, but who don't receive $100,000 in tuition or the equivalent on top of their other benefits.

To make it very clear, I am 100% in favor of the GI bill, but you're going on about fairness while remaining blinded by the fact that you don't think that that same fairness has to apply to your sacred cows. You can be against FMLA all you want, and it is your right and duty to vote for representatives who support your views, but spare us from all the high and mighty rhetoric about how you're "against benefits that favor one group over another," when you're very clearly in favor of special benefits for contributions which you subjectively think are more valuable.
 
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I used my personal time known as vacation time. I accept the FMLA as law but the world functioned just fine prior to 1993. My personal opinion on FMLA is only relevant as it pertains to paid FMLA as that is part of Biden’s proposals to spend trillions more. Each employer is free to decide how much time is paid or unpaid when utilizing FMLA. Please notice how many employers favor one group over others when paying for time off related to FMLA.


So you never had an unexpected need to take a month off work and not have the financial means to support yourself in the setting of whatever costs are incurred from this unexpected event?

Again these people aren’t ripping anyone off, usually something bad or difficult is happening and I don’t understand the opposition to helping people when that occurs. We already do it with disability, Medicaid, food stamps etc why would you want to kick people who are trying to work and stay productive when they are down?
 
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Again, you haven't really provided anything which invalidates the point I made, namely that that are plenty of other federal employees who are in danger, or who make very valuable contributions, but who don't receive $100,000 in tuition or the equivalent on top of their other benefits.

To make it very clear, I am 100% in favor of the GI bill, but you're going on about fairness while remaining blinded by the fact that you don't think that that same fairness has to apply to your sacred cows. You can be against FMLA all you want, and it is your right and duty to vote for representatives who support your views, but spare us from all the high and mighty rhetoric about how you're "against benefits that favor one group over another," when you're very clearly in favor of special benefits for contributions which you subjectively think are more valuable.
You twist my words and distort my points. I am against taxpayer funded FMLA because it isn’t necessary. We have the greatest companies in the world and the notion that the government needs to provide even more benefits is absurd because we can’t pay for the ones we already have on the books. All we do is borrow and spend money we don’t have putting the next generation in massive debt. It’s irresponsible
 
So you never had an unexpected need to take a month off work and not have the financial means to support yourself in the setting of whatever costs are incurred from this unexpected event?

Again these people aren’t ripping anyone off, usually something bad or difficult is happening and I don’t understand the opposition to helping people when that occurs. We already do it with disability, Medicaid, food stamps etc why would you want to kick people who are trying to work and stay productive when they are down?
I think employers should help their employees. How about lower tax rates for companies which help employees? Incentivize private sector vs involving the government which Can’t even manage the post office.

Sometimes I wonder if people understand math and budgets because we are already borrow too much money and can’t afford any more social programs. The focus shoujd be on shoring up the entitlements Already promised and not adding more.

 
Reminds me of the lectures and modules I had to attend as a resident about burnout. Somehow the burnout was my fault and somehow I should be able to recognize it and fix it myself.

Whenever a corporation makes you watch a video or attend some kind of lecture, you need to ask yourself this question: “how is the corporation benefitting from this?”
 
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Do you think it's fair that veterans qualify for the GI bill and free rides to state universities while other civil servants don't?
Absolutely, if that's what it takes to attract highly qualified applicants for our military. Supply and Demand.
 
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That sounds ikea a leadership problem to me, which is admittedly where a majority of these problems come from.
Yuuge leadership problem. Small program. Not much oversight. A few young guys ran all the day to day stuff of the residency and ORs. They had their favorites that could just about come and go as they please. A couple of third years did some residency training with them and were chummy. The pet female had a never ending array of "legitimate" reasons she would be arriving late and/or leaving early. You were either a have or a have not.

It got very old. My standard operation is I won't abuse the system and dump on others, so I suck it up, but not happily and the anger just gets me further down on the list of favorites/not favorites. It sucked. May they all be hospitalized with painful massive exploding hemorrhoids.
 
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You twist my words and distort my points. I am against taxpayer funded FMLA because it isn’t necessary. We have the greatest companies in the world and the notion that the government needs to provide even more benefits is absurd because we can’t pay for the ones we already have on the books. All we do is borrow and spend money we don’t have putting the next generation in massive debt. It’s irresponsible
Well, your position has been all over the place, ranging from how things were so great before the original FMLA in 1993 to now being only against taxpayer funded FMLA.

I agree that there are many companies which should be compelled to provide benefits like health insurance or paid FMLA if they are large enough, because ultimately the taxpayer foots the bill for their medicaid or ACA or whatever when Walmart etc doesn't provide it. But you know it and I know it that only a small percentage of companies and employers can afford to do this, and I have no problem with federally sponsored paid FMLA as long as the bill is paid for through increased revenue.

Screenshot_20210718-055900_Chrome.jpg
 
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Absolutely, if that's what it takes to attract highly qualified applicants for our military. Supply and Demand.
As much as I love a good social safety net, the issue at stake with parental leave is also supply. That is, making sure the supply of new Americans exceeds the numbers of deaths, so we don't have a populace whose average citizen is an 87 year old retiree on Medicare.

Screenshot_20210718-060234_Chrome.jpg
 
I think employers should help their employees. How about lower tax rates for companies which help employees? Incentivize private sector vs involving the government which Can’t even manage the post office.

Sometimes I wonder if people understand math and budgets because we are already borrow too much money and can’t afford any more social programs. The focus shoujd be on shoring up the entitlements Already promised and not adding more.


How about actually making companies pay their taxes, close those loopholes that so many use to dodge billions, fine the crap out of the ones that don't comply
 
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That’s idiotic. Because that’s how the Army anywhere does their program. Sign up as an anesthesiologist and officer and you too will supervise one on one in an academic setting anywhere in North America.
Go home!!

Dont call my statements idiotic because they aren't.
 
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Socialists need “class-struggle elections,” argues Ries, that pit the people against the ruling class and focus on “the greed and corruption of capitalism.” Socialists believe, he said, that with the multiple crises in the economy, government, and public health, now is the time to push for a world where “all people can live with dignity, security, and freedom.”

The Socialist Alternative has called for the formation of a new left party with “a clear socialist program and a tested Marxist leadership.” The Call, a publication run by Bread and Roses, a caucus of Marxist organizers, has declared, echoing Karl Marx, that American workers need “a mass working class party.” The Sunrise Movement, a youth-led leftist climate group, has cautioned that a workers’ party should not be an “immediate” goal. But those on the far left agree that a workers’ party is “a crucial strategic goal for the socialist movement.”

These radicals clearly see themselves as a revolutionary vanguard like the Bolsheviks of 1917, prepared to strike when the moment is ripe to bring down a weakened political and economic structure. Although they are comparatively few—DSA has a membership of about 70,000—they are committed. They have helped to elect a number of national and local candidates. According to the polls, the mood of the country is favorable to radical solutions such as free education, free health care, and the Green New Deal, which would eliminate oil, coal, and natural gas as energy sources.


 
The main difference between capitalism and socialism is this: Capitalism works.

In a capitalist economy, incentives are of the utmost importance. Market prices, the profit-and-loss system of accounting, and private property rights provide an efficient, interrelated system of incentives to guide and direct economic behavior. Capitalism is based on the theory that incentives matter!

Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism to direct economic activity. By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don’t matter!

 
The main difference between capitalism and socialism is this: Capitalism works.

In a capitalist economy, incentives are of the utmost importance. Market prices, the profit-and-loss system of accounting, and private property rights provide an efficient, interrelated system of incentives to guide and direct economic behavior. Capitalism is based on the theory that incentives matter!

Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism to direct economic activity. By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don’t matter!

Capitalism works but crony capitalism does not which is where we are!
 
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Back to the OP: This is the new "woke" America where every major company has a Diversity Director and hours upon hours of diversity lectures. This is about "shaming" and 'silencing" those in the majority so the leftist agenda can be advanced. Everything is about "race" or "identity" or "gender" rather than personal responsibility and meritocracy. This way "equity and inclusion" becomes the basis for advancement in our society and not the merit of the individual for the position or promotion. If you disagree with these "lectures" you will called a "racist" or a "bigot" and shamed into silence. This strategy has been working so far to the detriment of our nation and economy as a whole.
 
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Look at the bolded. You've chosen to pick one group of government employees (who *chose* to do something) over another group of government employees who chose to do something else, but yet only one group is getting a special benefit. There are plenty of low paying civil and federal servants whose departments greatly benefit this country and our society, and they don't get to go to a 4yr college for free like veterans.

You are making a subjective value judgment on why one group deserves something over another group. You might make a very compelling case about veterans deserving those benefits, but ultimately it's still subjective. People who value the FMLA (and the idea of people taking care of their newborns and sick family members) are doing the same.
The military is a special class of people doing a unique job. That 90% of us aren't ever in mortal danger is beside the point. Those other low paid civil servants don't get ordered around the country or overseas, they don't surrender basic civil rights while employed, and they can choose to quit with no notice or even tell their bosses to go **** themselves without getting thrown in prison. The GI Bill and other education benefits are huge recruiting tools, probably the single most important carrot that is offered to recruits. I wouldn't have joined if it didn't come with tuition.

Recruitment of government building cubicle drones is aided by other incentives that the military doesn't get. Matching TSP contributions, for one.

I suspect what you're really arguing is that the government should give free tuition to everyone, the way some countries do. That's a wholly different proposition and argument than "if a Marine Lance corporal who served 4 years deserves free tuition so does everyone else". You're talking about a universal benefit for the good of the country and civilization in general. The GI Bill is a targeted recruitment tool - if tuition was free for everyone, the military would have to come up with some other recruitment perk. Maybe daily back rubs. Would you then argue that a massage benefit should be offered to everyone too, because it's not fair that only military recruits get it?
 
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The military is a special class of people doing a unique job. That 90% of us aren't ever in mortal danger is beside the point. Those other low paid civil servants don't get ordered around the country or overseas, they don't surrender basic civil rights while employed, and they can choose to quit with no notice or even tell their bosses to go **** themselves without getting thrown in prison. The GI Bill and other education benefits are huge recruiting tools, probably the single most important carrot that is offered to recruits. I wouldn't have joined if it didn't come with tuition.

Recruitment of government building cubicle drones is aided by other incentives that the military doesn't get. Matching TSP contributions, for one.

I suspect what you're really arguing is that the government should give free tuition to everyone, the way some countries do. That's a wholly different proposition and argument than "if a Marine Lance corporal who served 4 years deserves free tuition so does everyone else". You're talking about a universal benefit for the good of the country and civilization in general. The GI Bill is a targeted recruitment tool - if tuition was free for everyone, the military would have to come up with some other recruitment perk. Maybe daily back rubs. Would you then argue that a massage benefit should be offered to everyone too, because it's not fair that only military recruits get it?
My point in bringing up the GI Bill is not that I'm against it (I'm for it as I stated above), nor am I bringing it up in the context of this discussion because I think that everyone should have free public university tuition (which is something I do think, but that's besides this point).

Let me reiterate: I brought up the military to Blade as an example merely to point out the numerous logical contradictions he made, and continues to make, regarding his supposed neutrality and his favoring of "fairness" above all else. I personally think you make a compelling case for the military being a "special class" vis a vis the surrendering of rights, etc, however - everyone has a "special class" of people or things which they subjectively think deserve favor because doing so would do the most societal good, and there are plenty more examples of these sacred cows in the private sector and in the government beyond just the military.

But Blade is trying to say that having the taxpayer favor paid FMLA is some kind of discrimination or form of unfairness, while simultaneously implying that giving special benefit to folks who serve in the military is an obviously, objectively right thing to do. Neither policy choice is objective and both ultimately involve value judgements and some kind of unfairness to someone. That's all I want him to acknowledge.
 
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Reminds me of the lectures and modules I had to attend as a resident about burnout. Somehow the burnout was my fault and somehow I should be able to recognize it and fix it myself.

Whenever a corporation makes you watch a video or attend some kind of lecture, you need to ask yourself this question: “how is the corporation benefitting from this?”
Usually it’s just to satisfy some legal/compliance requirement.
 
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My point in bringing up the GI Bill is not that I'm against it (I'm for it as I stated above), nor am I bringing it up in the context of this discussion because I think that everyone should have free public university tuition (which is something I do think, but that's besides this point).

Let me reiterate: I brought up the military to Blade as an example merely to point out the numerous logical contradictions he made, and continues to make, regarding his supposed neutrality and his favoring of "fairness" above all else. I personally think you make a compelling case for the military being a "special class" vis a vis the surrendering of rights, etc, however - everyone has a "special class" of people or things which they subjectively think deserve favor because doing so would do the most societal good, and there are plenty more examples of these sacred cows in the private sector and in the government beyond just the military.

But Blade is trying to say that having the taxpayer favor paid FMLA is some kind of discrimination or form of unfairness, while simultaneously implying that giving special benefit to folks who serve in the military is an obviously, objectively right thing to do. Neither policy choice is objective and both ultimately involve value judgements and some kind of unfairness to someone. That's all I want him to acknowledge.
My point was while the GI Bill is both a free market solution to a recruitment challenge, there's also a compelling (to me) argument that there's a moral imperative to treat members of the military better than other government employees. I admit my bias. And I don't think it's inconsistent of Blade to draw a line between FMLA or other benefits to all, and any given special treatment for the military. The military is different.

I think we could, and maybe should, make higher education (whether university or vocational) a benefit offered to all. Same with healthcare, or paid FMLA. There are lots of public benefit things we could choose to do as a nation, if we also chose to spend less money doing other things. Those arguments aren't necessarily consistent with or oppositional to the notion that some unique benefits to some groups (like the military) make both economic and moral sense.

The reason I was arguing, apart from my fondness for arguing for the sake of arguing :), was that you said the military wasn't more deserving of paid educational benefits than other civil servants, and I think they (we) are.
 
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My point was while the GI Bill is both a free market solution to a recruitment challenge, there's also a compelling (to me) argument that there's a moral imperative to treat members of the military better than other government employees. I admit my bias. And I don't think it's inconsistent of Blade to draw a line between FMLA or other benefits to all, and any given special treatment for the military. The military is different.

I think we could, and maybe should, make higher education (whether university or vocational) a benefit offered to all. Same with healthcare, or paid FMLA. There are lots of public benefit things we could choose to do as a nation, if we also chose to spend less money doing other things. Those arguments aren't necessarily consistent with or oppositional to the notion that some unique benefits to some groups (like the military) make both economic and moral sense.

The reason I was arguing, apart from my fondness for arguing for the sake of arguing :), was that you said the military wasn't more deserving of paid educational benefits than other civil servants, and I think they (we) are.
Indeed, as I said, everyone has a subjective moral imperative and he (and anyone else) are free to draw that line where they wish. At the risk of my repeating myself, Blade's criticism and his implication was that FMLA had some kind of objective unfairness and discriminatory nature about it, while favoring the military vis a vis special benefits is an obviously correct thing to do, even if viewed in a vacuum. Very simply, that implication remains a logical contradiction because the things that we choose to fund or not fund are subjective value judgements, full stop.

There's a very good reason in my opinion to favor the military and that's based on a subjective axiom that America is "good" and America should continue existing. Likewise, I think there's a good reason to favor paid FMLA because of that same subjective axiom. Paid FMLA is one of the tools that could stem the tide of the declining birth rate which faces America and numerous other first world countries like Japan. It's not particularly apparent now in our country, but not having enough young people for economic output and/or defense is a national security threat, and we should be making it easier for working parents to have kids, not more difficult.

And one more time- I didn't point-blank say the military wasn't more deserving of anything. I was Socratically (rhetorically) putting it to Blade as a thought experiment to justify why the military is more deserving of that benefit than say a similarly endangered federal agent, or another civil servant whose contributions ended up being much more valuable to national defense than some E4 chosen at random. It was a bit of a trick because no matter how compelling one's subjective justification is, it remains just that: subjective. Because there's no argument which makes it objectively morally superior if we hypothetically we don't share the same underlying axioms. So when Blade says "I guess my definition of "fairness" is based on old fashioned values where everyone receives the same treatment regardless of race, sex, gender identity, religion or personal matters" - he should be adding a big asterisk that says "*except when it comes to the people or things which I subjectively think are more compelling" because the military is certainly not receiving the same treatment as everyone else.
 
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I stand by my comments that those who put their lives on the line every single day so we can enjoy our freedoms as spelled out in the US Constitution are indeed worthy of "special treatment." That is where I place an asterisk as it regards a special class of people without whom I can't speak freely or pursue happiness.

I don't find that subjective at all because that is the fundamental role of government: to protect us from our enemies. As PGG points out repeatedly the military is different than all other forms of employment from the DEA to the CIA.

Now I don't want to derail this thread any further with my comments against more federally funded social programs we can not afford. I oppose paid federally funded FMLA and the majority of Biden's "build back better" proposals. A nation with 30 trillion in National debt doesn't have the money for more social programs when the current programs are on the verge of bankruptcy.


 
I don't find that subjective at all because that is the fundamental role of government: to protect us from our enemies. As PGG points out repeatedly the military is different than all other forms of employment from the DEA to the CIA.

The fundamental role of government was and is the product of the subjective opinions and values of the people who form the government. And the size and scope of the nation's defense and the remuneration of its personnel are also not laid out in stone, and indeed have been subject to change for 250+ yrs.

Feel free to stand by your comments, but your opinion is the very definition of subjective.
 
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